== Welcome == Greetings, and welcome to my user page. I haven't got round to making it look nice yet, but give me some time. I am relatively new to the Wikipedia, I have been using the site for the last couple of years but have restricted myself to the anonymous editing of grammar and syntax with the occasional factual correction, usually in articles related to music. However, I am currently writing about the Wikipedia (see section on research below) and am planning to start work on a number of articles once I get my head round the various style guides. === Interests === My particular interests are music, film, photography and cultural politics. I am particularly interested in drum and bass or jungle music, as I grew up pretty much in parallell with this genre of music. Consequently, I am in the process of creating a Drum and Bass Cleanup Crew to improve the representation of drum and bass music on the Wikipedia. I hope to accomplish this through peaceful, friendly cooperation to improve both the factual content and language of all drum and bass related articles. I also have a particular interest in working on certain political articles, particularly those related to or surrounding issues of anti-globalization and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I hope to help improve these pages though cooperating with like-minded, but politically opposed, editors to create pages that encourage the reader to do more research. I am of the opinion that an article does not succeed unless the reader sees it as a prompt to a greater investigation of a challenging topic. I think my political opinions are fairly obvious, the most important being a healthy cynicism towards authority figures, organisations and media from every part of the political spectrum. As a student of Media and Cultural Studies, I am also interested in addressing incidences of bias within the Wikipedia. Traditionally, these might be expected to mirror the bias inherent in the mass media and Academia of the first world which represent the sources for much of the information added to teh poject. However, I am also of the opinion that the Wikipedia displays a unique bias which proceeds from the sharp polarisation of contributors around certain controversial topics. In practice, this means that certain debates are conducted in terms defined by the political spectrum of the Anglophone country in which they originate, and may unconsciously ignore global perspectives. === Please contact me! === I can always be contacted via the email button in the toolbox to the left (although anecdotal evidence suggests isn't particularly reliable), or via my talk page. Sadly, I am logged into the internet for about 14 hours a day, five days a week, so you can always contact me pretty quickly, and I try to reply to everybody. == Wikipedia Research: The Wikipedia as a model for the communal recording and discussion of human knowledge == I am a postgraduate student at the University of Sussex, Brighton, England, where I am taking an MA in Media & Cultural Studies. I am currently researching an article on online democracy (or rather, online communities), and am using the Wikipedia as my main case study. Any input, related to any matter, would be more than welcome. I have been using the Wikipedia for around two years, and have mostly restricted my editing activity to grammar, punctuation and spelling edits (made anonymously) as I have some experience of working as a proofreader. Ironically, this page is almost undoubtedly full of typos. Since creating this user page, a number of people have been kind enough to contact me to offer their opinions on my topics. I haven't got things clear yet as to exactly what I want to write, but I decided to post up my early ideas in the hope that they would be corrected, Wiki-style. Even the few comments that I have received so far have convinced me that this was a good idea. * Please follow this link to find my subpage detailing my Wikipedia research: User:Will Lakeman/Wikipedia research == Drum and bass cleanup crew == I am trying to get a group of people together to improve the representation of drum and bass and jungle music on the Wikipedia. By improve I mean the performance of janitorial tasks such as improving grammar and page layout and including artist photos and details of labels, major releases and radio work. I am of the opinion that minority forms of music are often poorly represented on the Wikipedia (at least in comparison to more popular styles) because the majority of the work is often carried out by a very small number of people and seldom improved once the original article has been created. I'm going to do a lot more work on this over the next couple of weeks, but I propose to # create a list of articles that require work, detailing what work is required # liaise between different editors from the drum and bass community # expand the list of useful links below # create a list of books which are useful for people interested in writing about drum and bass If you're interested, please contact me via my talk page. Any suggestions, opinions, links or any other useful material will be gratefully received. ==='''Drum and bass 'to do' list (please add any articles you think need work)'''=== ** Bad Company (drum and bass artist) ** DJ Friction (disambiguation needed ** Jungle (music) Redirect needed? **Digital No article yet, will need to be added to the disambiguation page **DJ Zinc Stub. Added a little here User:Will Lakeman 00:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC) **Bingo Beats Stub **Congo Natty Rebel MC bio stops in 90s, also lists him as artist but not record label **tramen Nice entry, I'll add a few links to other dnb pages later. ***Oh, go on then :) Only place that links to it so far is this page, though... (User:Stevekeiretsu, but forgot to login) **Juicebox records Great article on Gerald, nothing on his label **Particularly shocking that there's ''nothing'' on any of these classic labels: ***Formation Records ***Good Looking Organisation ***No U Turn ***Reinforced Records ***RAM Recordings ***True Playaz ***Urban Takeover - added a little material to this one. User:Will Lakeman 23:52, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) ***V Recordings ***Virus Recordings **Metalheadz Added more detail, maybe a picture and selected discography might be good. Also, information on the Blue Note nights if anybody has it. User:Will Lakeman 00:10, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC) **Moving Shadow ditto, although nice that somebody has put in a list of artists. **31 records ** Actually, maybe just go though every one of the lables listed on Drum and bass record labels. This could take a while. **Jump-Up Needs expansion, mention of chart success of remixes etc. ===Useful links for drum and bass articles=== ** drum and bass The main Wikipedia article on the genre. Has improved greatly since I first started using the Wikipedia. ** [http://www.rolldabeats.com/ Rolldabeats - an enormous online discography that functions as the drum and bass version of IMDB] I'm of the opinion that artist articles should link here as standard ** http://www.dogsonacid.com Dogsonacid, the world's largest drum and bass forum. Not a good idea to post about the Wikipedia there as, sadly, vandalism is often carried out by a small minority of users. The site is very useful for research and discussion though. It has been suggested that 'The Grid' section of the forum might be more receptive to Wikipedia requests. ** http://www.subvertcentral.com Subvert Central is a very interesting drum and bass forum which hosts a lot of serious discussion related to the genre, as well as other forms of music and political/cultural discussion. === from Template:B0h === I found this template [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Close_Encounters_of_the_Bad_Jokes_and_Other_Deleted_Nonsense_Kind here], and it made me laugh, so I included it. ==='''Users interested in working to clean up drum and bass articles and create new ones (please add your name here)=== * Me (obviously) User:Will Lakeman * User:Themindset 17:40, 26 May 2005 (UTC) * User:Stevekeiretsu 17:54, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
Welcome! Hello, and Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers to Wikipedia. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: *Wikipedia:How to edit a page *Wikipedia:Tutorial *Wikipedia:Picture tutorial *Wikipedia:How to write a great article *Wikipedia:Naming conventions *Wikipedia:Manual of Style *If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Wikipedia:Topical index. *I think WP:SIGN can provide some starting points for your research. It started in January this year and it's a great source for all sorts of community news. *More specifically related to your research are places like WP:RFA, WP:AN, WP:PR, WP:DR, WP:RFC, and WP:RFAr (and there's a lot more...) . I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedia:Wikipedians! In your case, I gather it's going to be more than editing — I hope you'll get to know the workings of Wikipedia soon enough, though I think it would be good to try some article editing anyway for some real community interaction. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the Wikipedia:Help, add a question to the Wikipedia:village pump like you did before or ask me on my User talk:Mark Dingemanse. Again, welcome! — User:Mark Dingemanse User Talk:Mark Dingemanse 09:57, 12 May 2005 (UTC) Thanks very much, Mark. I'm going to start practisng my editing ASAP, as soon as I find something that I'm sifficiently knowledgeable about User:Will Lakeman 20:47, 12 May 2005 (UTC) == Research == Hi Will (this time via wiki as opposed to email!) - first of all, thanks for the compliment on my repository of links - it's far from exhaustive but somehow I want to connect all the meta-interesting pages together to make navigation through this sprawling network of nodes a little easier - started the research category on meta and will do more when I'm not so busy. There's a real buzz of research on Wikipedia now - I suppose people are flocking to it as a fascinating case study, which I did myself over a year ago - but also from 'insiders' like Anthere and Sj - as per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wikidemia (which I see you've added to) and :m:Wikicensus, both of which need some revamping or injecting with energy. On your own tack, it very much overlaps with my own focus - I could go into a long-winded rant mode here, but will wait until your answers come back ;) and send you a draft of a paper I'm writing for Wikimania, which is a pared-down version of my dissertation - are you going to Wikimania yourself? Just to add to your literature, I've tons of readings with very diverse findings/methods - not sure exactly where to send you but keywords like collaboration, constructivism, learning community, identity/presence along with some key names like Jenny Preece, Etienne Wenger (and Sherry Turkle who you mentioned) will work well - assuming you've got an athens account or something to access online journals with - my paper will have most of these. But who am I to tell you what literature review you need? - only you know that! I'll leave it there myself, but would be interested to hear more about your research, which you've done a good job of explaining on your user page - how about methodology? Are you doing interviews? Surveys? Monitoring discussions? ..?? User:Cormaggio 00:03, 24 May 2005 (UTC) == DnB crew == As per your comment on the Grooverider talk page, I am here to join your DnB clean up crew, lets discuss this! Ooops, i forgot to sign my name User:Themindset 15:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC) So yeah, I'm interested in doing some clean up along with you... one thing that really bugs me is how bad the Jungle music article is. I'd like to just redirect to the Drum and Bass article, as I feel that any distinction between the two terms has ceased to exist (most DnB artists will tell you the two terms refer to the same thing). What do you think about that? User:Themindset 15:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC) : I agree that the distinction is largely meaningless. However, the regularity with which the debate appears on dnb forums and other areas suggests that a lot of people perceive it as a real distinction. I've heard a lot of theories put about, which mainly seem to result from the expansion of production styles following the Blue Note era. ie. many people believe Jungle is a sub-genre of drum and bass, which would probably suggest that it requires a sub-genre page like Neurofunk (an article which could also do with some work) or Drill n bass (a subgenre that I find personally ridiculous as, to my knowledge, nobody as ever applied this term to their own music) : I think that much of the debate surrounding teh Wikipedia refers to classification as much as anything else, so I would propose cleaning, shortening the jungle article and having it state that many people consider ita sub-genre of drum and bass (controversially or not). I will take a look at the article over the next few days and put some notes on the talk page. Thanks. User:Will Lakeman 19:47, 24 May 2005 (UTC) :: I agree that the current jungle article is pretty shocking! It's certainly particularly awful that the current article doesnt mention dnb until the second paragraph. The link between the two (arguable equivalence) should be unmissably clear. But, I'm not sure that simply redirecting it to the dnb page is the way forward, though? Whether or not jungle and dnb are just synonyms is still a contentious issue, and I personally get the impression that doing this would in-effect be endorsing one POV via the ''structure'' of Wikipedia, rather than covering it in the text itself. ::(Disclaimer: I wrote the current paragraph covering the jungle/dnb semantic distinction on the drum and bass article.) My idea might be to be to kick off the jungle article with a simple paragraph along these lines. Ie, saying "some/many consider the two to be completely synonymous. So, for ''this'' usage of the word jungle, rather than describe it twice, (badly), please just go to the dnb article. On the other hand, some consider jungle to have the following different definitions..." Then coverage of jungle-as-a-subgenre theory, jungle-as-a-forerunner theory, etc. User:Stevekeiretsu 18:17, 26 May 2005 (UTC) Ola! On board! Something I found the other day which may be relevant to this effort: Wikipedia:WikiProject#Visual_and_performing_arts_and_music I don't know whether this is something worth doing / best done within the 'official' frameworks here, or just on talk pages. I personally suspect the latter? Probably not big enough to merit a 'project'? Don't really know - I'm quite a n00b here :) As for a to-do list... it would be quicker to make a no-need-to-do list! To be honest, there aren't really any dnb related articles I've seen that couldn't use improvement. One final thing I'd like to throw in, is categories. I think it would be good to have a "dnb artist" category? At the moment I'm just putting them into "Electronic Musicians" but that's ''such'' a massive category, I consider it totally unhelpful. It covers everyone from Luciano Berio to Aphex Twin via Vangelis and Sash!, for heavens sake. I say "artist", btw, since "musician" is usually innaccurate/innappropriate, "DJ" equally so, and "producer" little better - most people we'd be tagging this way are all three. To be honest this is something that really goes for all Wikipedia. It displays a fundamental lack of understanding of how dance/dj/electronic music operates. Any multiple-member outfits like Orbital get listed as Orbital (band), and any time you see something like "Optical is a DJ and music producer" - the producer link is rubbish, and gives totally the wrong impression of what you mean by the word. It only outlines the Quincy Jones / George Martin sense of the word, and doesnt cover the "solo composer, engineer, musician, programmer, producer, mixer" role of dance music at all. Sorry... starting to ramble... that'll do for now User:Stevekeiretsu 18:17, 26 May 2005 (UTC) Well, I pretty much wiped out Jungle music and replaced it with the semantic distinction paragraph from the Drum n Bass article, rather than simply making it a redirect. What do you think? User:Themindset 21:00, 26 May 2005 (UTC) Good idea, a might add a few little bits to it (maybe about the supposed racist connotations of the world jungle, and the word junglist), but otherwise I think shorter is better. User:Will Lakeman 21:05, 26 May 2005 (UTC) :On the origins of the word jungle, see: http://www.dnbscene.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=8927&start=15 ::Interesting, I'd forgotten about teh Kingston connection. Concrete Jungle. And that guy Duffy lives in the same town as me too. User:Will Lakeman 21:47, 26 May 2005 (UTC) Jumping into an argument as I've found myself here - Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums and Wikiportal/Music is probably what you want. User:Secretlondon 06:12, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Participant observer, Wiki, and academia== Hi, There is nothing wrong with being a scholarly participant observer here at Wiki, as long as someplace you post a note that you are doing an academic study. On your main User page is a good place to post a note. However to start out a discussion comment by invoking your scholarly status as a researcher; and then make a POV comment about text, is in my view outside the bounds of appropriate Wiki behaviour. Here editors range from folks with post-doctorates to folks without formal education. What matters is good editing and following the rules for citation and support for text being added. As you can probably figure out, just adding a comment on a discussion page that you think an article needs work is generally considered a waste of everyone's time. The point is to edit text. Or as others here often say--"we are writing an encyclopedia, not talking about how to write an encyclopedia." If the latter interests you, there are discussions policy and writing rules elsewhere on Wiki and on discussion lists. Happy editing. --User:Cberlet 13:36, 25 May 2005 (UTC) == Researching with... == I don't know if you've had a look at Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia (mostly written by Dan Keshet and myself). Not exactly your topic, but 3 things: (1) It won't surprise me if you have something to add to it. (2) You will notice that we've discussed in some measure how this differs from a normal reference work, and how a lot of its strengths come more from the potential to engage in dialogue with the authors than from the content as such. (3) Also, we argue for the importance of the transparent apparatus surrounding an article (history and talk, in particular, but also internal links, ability to see what else was written by the same people, etc.) as part of how one can judge the credibility of an article. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 05:37, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) Pear Tree House - there has never been a photo. I will go one weekend up to Crystal Palace and get some, I promise ;) User:Secretlondon 05:36, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Suicide Bombing == : Hey Will. To find out what Shahada means, all you have to do is click on the blue link to Shahadah (or Shahada, it's just an alt spelling of the same word). You read about it elsewhere [http://muttaqun.com/shahada.html Here], [http://www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Discover/Pillars/Shahada_Main.htm Here] or [http://www.nd.edu/~nduma/shahada.htm here]. : [http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sa.html Here it is] on those known Islamists, the CIA's website. ( It says, speaking of the Saudi Flag, "''green, a traditional color in Islamic flags, with the Shahada or Muslim creed in large white Arabic script (translated as \"There is no god but God; Muhammad is the Messenger of God\") above a white horizontal saber (the tip points to the hoist side)''" ). [http://www.islam101.com/dawah/pillars.html Islam 101] says ''""There is none worthy of worship except God and Muhammad is the messenger of God." This declaration of faith is called the Shahadah, a simple formula that all the faithful pronounce. The significance of this declaration is the belief that the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God, and this is achieved through the teachings and practices of the Last Prophet, Muhammad."'' --User:Irishpunktom\User_talk:Irishpunktom 08:11, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC) :: The other well known Islamist group, the Anti-Defamation League are quoted as stating ''"The Anti-Defamation League is respectful of the Shahada, the Muslim Declaration of Faith, which is expressed by millions of Muslims around the world"''. [http://windsofchange.net/archives/005198.php] <- That Link is from a blog entry which deals, to some degree, with the topic at hand, so worth a read! --User:Irishpunktom\User_talk:Irishpunktom 08:33, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC) ::: Our problem is actually dealt with on the Anti-Defamation League page; :::: Tensions flared between American Muslims and the Jewish organization after the ADL issued a June 18, 2004 news release [http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Mise_00/4520_00.htm] about University of California, Ivine (UCI) students' decision to wear green stoles bearing the ''Shahada'', the Islamic declaration of faith, because suicide bombers connected to the Palestinian group Hamas wear green armbands and headbands inscribed with the ''Shahada'' as a symbol of their movement. The news release stated: "The ''Shahada'' has come to represent, in radical Muslim circles, support for martyrdom and terrorist groups." :::: In response to the ADL's comments, Sabiha Khan of the Council on American-Islamic Relations said: ::::
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Will Lakeman
== Welcome == Greetings, and welcome to my user page. I haven't got round to making it look nice yet, but give me some time. I am relatively new to the Wikipedia, I have been using the site for the last couple of years but have restricted myself to the anonymous editing of grammar and syntax with the occasional factual correction, usually in articles related to music. However, I am currently writing about the Wikipedia (see section on research below) and am planning to start work on a number of articles once I get my head round the various style guides. === Interests === My particular interests are music, film, photography and cultural politics. I am particularly interested in drum and bass or jungle music, as I grew up pretty much in parallell with this genre of music. Consequently, I am in the process of creating a Drum and Bass Cleanup Crew to improve the representation of drum and bass music on the Wikipedia. I hope to accomplish this through peaceful, friendly cooperation to improve both the factual content and language of all drum and bass related articles. I also have a particular interest in working on certain political articles, particularly those related to or surrounding issues of anti-globalization and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I hope to help improve these pages though cooperating with like-minded, but politically opposed, editors to create pages that encourage the reader to do more research. I am of the opinion that an article does not succeed unless the reader sees it as a prompt to a greater investigation of a challenging topic. I think my political opinions are fairly obvious, the most important being a healthy cynicism towards authority figures, organisations and media from every part of the political spectrum. As a student of Media and Cultural Studies, I am also interested in addressing incidences of bias within the Wikipedia. Traditionally, these might be expected to mirror the bias inherent in the mass media and Academia of the first world which represent the sources for much of the information added to teh poject. However, I am also of the opinion that the Wikipedia displays a unique bias which proceeds from the sharp polarisation of contributors around certain controversial topics. In practice, this means that certain debates are conducted in terms defined by the political spectrum of the Anglophone country in which they originate, and may unconsciously ignore global perspectives. === Please contact me! === I can always be contacted via the email button in the toolbox to the left (although anecdotal evidence suggests isn't particularly reliable), or via my talk page. Sadly, I am logged into the internet for about 14 hours a day, five days a week, so you can always contact me pretty quickly, and I try to reply to everybody. == Wikipedia Research: The Wikipedia as a model for the communal recording and discussion of human knowledge == I am a postgraduate student at the University of Sussex, Brighton, England, where I am taking an MA in Media & Cultural Studies. I am currently researching an article on online democracy (or rather, online communities), and am using the Wikipedia as my main case study. Any input, related to any matter, would be more than welcome. I have been using the Wikipedia for around two years, and have mostly restricted my editing activity to grammar, punctuation and spelling edits (made anonymously) as I have some experience of working as a proofreader. Ironically, this page is almost undoubtedly full of typos. Since creating this user page, a number of people have been kind enough to contact me to offer their opinions on my topics. I haven't got things clear yet as to exactly what I want to write, but I decided to post up my early ideas in the hope that they would be corrected, Wiki-style. Even the few comments that I have received so far have convinced me that this was a good idea. * Please follow this link to find my subpage detailing my Wikipedia research: User:Will Lakeman/Wikipedia research == Drum and bass cleanup crew == I am trying to get a group of people together to improve the representation of drum and bass and jungle music on the Wikipedia. By improve I mean the performance of janitorial tasks such as improving grammar and page layout and including artist photos and details of labels, major releases and radio work. I am of the opinion that minority forms of music are often poorly represented on the Wikipedia (at least in comparison to more popular styles) because the majority of the work is often carried out by a very small number of people and seldom improved once the original article has been created. I'm going to do a lot more work on this over the next couple of weeks, but I propose to # create a list of articles that require work, detailing what work is required # liaise between different editors from the drum and bass community # expand the list of useful links below # create a list of books which are useful for people interested in writing about drum and bass If you're interested, please contact me via my talk page. Any suggestions, opinions, links or any other useful material will be gratefully received. ==='''Drum and bass 'to do' list (please add any articles you think need work)'''=== ** Bad Company (drum and bass artist) ** DJ Friction (disambiguation needed ** Jungle (music) Redirect needed? **Digital No article yet, will need to be added to the disambiguation page **DJ Zinc Stub. Added a little here User:Will Lakeman 00:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC) **Bingo Beats Stub **Congo Natty Rebel MC bio stops in 90s, also lists him as artist but not record label **tramen Nice entry, I'll add a few links to other dnb pages later. ***Oh, go on then :) Only place that links to it so far is this page, though... (User:Stevekeiretsu, but forgot to login) **Juicebox records Great article on Gerald, nothing on his label **Particularly shocking that there's ''nothing'' on any of these classic labels: ***Formation Records ***Good Looking Organisation ***No U Turn ***Reinforced Records ***RAM Recordings ***True Playaz ***Urban Takeover - added a little material to this one. User:Will Lakeman 23:52, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) ***V Recordings ***Virus Recordings **Metalheadz Added more detail, maybe a picture and selected discography might be good. Also, information on the Blue Note nights if anybody has it. User:Will Lakeman 00:10, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC) **Moving Shadow ditto, although nice that somebody has put in a list of artists. **31 records ** Actually, maybe just go though every one of the lables listed on Drum and bass record labels. This could take a while. **Jump-Up Needs expansion, mention of chart success of remixes etc. ===Useful links for drum and bass articles=== ** drum and bass The main Wikipedia article on the genre. Has improved greatly since I first started using the Wikipedia. ** [http://www.rolldabeats.com/ Rolldabeats - an enormous online discography that functions as the drum and bass version of IMDB] I'm of the opinion that artist articles should link here as standard ** http://www.dogsonacid.com Dogsonacid, the world's largest drum and bass forum. Not a good idea to post about the Wikipedia there as, sadly, vandalism is often carried out by a small minority of users. The site is very useful for research and discussion though. It has been suggested that 'The Grid' section of the forum might be more receptive to Wikipedia requests. ** http://www.subvertcentral.com Subvert Central is a very interesting drum and bass forum which hosts a lot of serious discussion related to the genre, as well as other forms of music and political/cultural discussion. === from Template:B0h === I found this template [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Close_Encounters_of_the_Bad_Jokes_and_Other_Deleted_Nonsense_Kind here], and it made me laugh, so I included it. ==='''Users interested in working to clean up drum and bass articles and create new ones (please add your name here)=== * Me (obviously) User:Will Lakeman * User:Themindset 17:40, 26 May 2005 (UTC) * User:Stevekeiretsu 17:54, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
Will Lakeman
Welcome! Hello, and Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers to Wikipedia. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: *Wikipedia:How to edit a page *Wikipedia:Tutorial *Wikipedia:Picture tutorial *Wikipedia:How to write a great article *Wikipedia:Naming conventions *Wikipedia:Manual of Style *If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Wikipedia:Topical index. *I think WP:SIGN can provide some starting points for your research. It started in January this year and it's a great source for all sorts of community news. *More specifically related to your research are places like WP:RFA, WP:AN, WP:PR, WP:DR, WP:RFC, and WP:RFAr (and there's a lot more...) . I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedia:Wikipedians! In your case, I gather it's going to be more than editing — I hope you'll get to know the workings of Wikipedia soon enough, though I think it would be good to try some article editing anyway for some real community interaction. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the Wikipedia:Help, add a question to the Wikipedia:village pump like you did before or ask me on my User talk:Mark Dingemanse. Again, welcome! — User:Mark Dingemanse User Talk:Mark Dingemanse 09:57, 12 May 2005 (UTC) Thanks very much, Mark. I'm going to start practisng my editing ASAP, as soon as I find something that I'm sifficiently knowledgeable about User:Will Lakeman 20:47, 12 May 2005 (UTC) == Research == Hi Will (this time via wiki as opposed to email!) - first of all, thanks for the compliment on my repository of links - it's far from exhaustive but somehow I want to connect all the meta-interesting pages together to make navigation through this sprawling network of nodes a little easier - started the research category on meta and will do more when I'm not so busy. There's a real buzz of research on Wikipedia now - I suppose people are flocking to it as a fascinating case study, which I did myself over a year ago - but also from 'insiders' like Anthere and Sj - as per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wikidemia (which I see you've added to) and :m:Wikicensus, both of which need some revamping or injecting with energy. On your own tack, it very much overlaps with my own focus - I could go into a long-winded rant mode here, but will wait until your answers come back ;) and send you a draft of a paper I'm writing for Wikimania, which is a pared-down version of my dissertation - are you going to Wikimania yourself? Just to add to your literature, I've tons of readings with very diverse findings/methods - not sure exactly where to send you but keywords like collaboration, constructivism, learning community, identity/presence along with some key names like Jenny Preece, Etienne Wenger (and Sherry Turkle who you mentioned) will work well - assuming you've got an athens account or something to access online journals with - my paper will have most of these. But who am I to tell you what literature review you need? - only you know that! I'll leave it there myself, but would be interested to hear more about your research, which you've done a good job of explaining on your user page - how about methodology? Are you doing interviews? Surveys? Monitoring discussions? ..?? User:Cormaggio 00:03, 24 May 2005 (UTC) == DnB crew == As per your comment on the Grooverider talk page, I am here to join your DnB clean up crew, lets discuss this! Ooops, i forgot to sign my name User:Themindset 15:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC) So yeah, I'm interested in doing some clean up along with you... one thing that really bugs me is how bad the Jungle music article is. I'd like to just redirect to the Drum and Bass article, as I feel that any distinction between the two terms has ceased to exist (most DnB artists will tell you the two terms refer to the same thing). What do you think about that? User:Themindset 15:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC) : I agree that the distinction is largely meaningless. However, the regularity with which the debate appears on dnb forums and other areas suggests that a lot of people perceive it as a real distinction. I've heard a lot of theories put about, which mainly seem to result from the expansion of production styles following the Blue Note era. ie. many people believe Jungle is a sub-genre of drum and bass, which would probably suggest that it requires a sub-genre page like Neurofunk (an article which could also do with some work) or Drill n bass (a subgenre that I find personally ridiculous as, to my knowledge, nobody as ever applied this term to their own music) : I think that much of the debate surrounding teh Wikipedia refers to classification as much as anything else, so I would propose cleaning, shortening the jungle article and having it state that many people consider ita sub-genre of drum and bass (controversially or not). I will take a look at the article over the next few days and put some notes on the talk page. Thanks. User:Will Lakeman 19:47, 24 May 2005 (UTC) :: I agree that the current jungle article is pretty shocking! It's certainly particularly awful that the current article doesnt mention dnb until the second paragraph. The link between the two (arguable equivalence) should be unmissably clear. But, I'm not sure that simply redirecting it to the dnb page is the way forward, though? Whether or not jungle and dnb are just synonyms is still a contentious issue, and I personally get the impression that doing this would in-effect be endorsing one POV via the ''structure'' of Wikipedia, rather than covering it in the text itself. ::(Disclaimer: I wrote the current paragraph covering the jungle/dnb semantic distinction on the drum and bass article.) My idea might be to be to kick off the jungle article with a simple paragraph along these lines. Ie, saying "some/many consider the two to be completely synonymous. So, for ''this'' usage of the word jungle, rather than describe it twice, (badly), please just go to the dnb article. On the other hand, some consider jungle to have the following different definitions..." Then coverage of jungle-as-a-subgenre theory, jungle-as-a-forerunner theory, etc. User:Stevekeiretsu 18:17, 26 May 2005 (UTC) Ola! On board! Something I found the other day which may be relevant to this effort: Wikipedia:WikiProject#Visual_and_performing_arts_and_music I don't know whether this is something worth doing / best done within the 'official' frameworks here, or just on talk pages. I personally suspect the latter? Probably not big enough to merit a 'project'? Don't really know - I'm quite a n00b here :) As for a to-do list... it would be quicker to make a no-need-to-do list! To be honest, there aren't really any dnb related articles I've seen that couldn't use improvement. One final thing I'd like to throw in, is categories. I think it would be good to have a "dnb artist" category? At the moment I'm just putting them into "Electronic Musicians" but that's ''such'' a massive category, I consider it totally unhelpful. It covers everyone from Luciano Berio to Aphex Twin via Vangelis and Sash!, for heavens sake. I say "artist", btw, since "musician" is usually innaccurate/innappropriate, "DJ" equally so, and "producer" little better - most people we'd be tagging this way are all three. To be honest this is something that really goes for all Wikipedia. It displays a fundamental lack of understanding of how dance/dj/electronic music operates. Any multiple-member outfits like Orbital get listed as Orbital (band), and any time you see something like "Optical is a DJ and music producer" - the producer link is rubbish, and gives totally the wrong impression of what you mean by the word. It only outlines the Quincy Jones / George Martin sense of the word, and doesnt cover the "solo composer, engineer, musician, programmer, producer, mixer" role of dance music at all. Sorry... starting to ramble... that'll do for now User:Stevekeiretsu 18:17, 26 May 2005 (UTC) Well, I pretty much wiped out Jungle music and replaced it with the semantic distinction paragraph from the Drum n Bass article, rather than simply making it a redirect. What do you think? User:Themindset 21:00, 26 May 2005 (UTC) Good idea, a might add a few little bits to it (maybe about the supposed racist connotations of the world jungle, and the word junglist), but otherwise I think shorter is better. User:Will Lakeman 21:05, 26 May 2005 (UTC) :On the origins of the word jungle, see: http://www.dnbscene.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=8927&start=15 ::Interesting, I'd forgotten about teh Kingston connection. Concrete Jungle. And that guy Duffy lives in the same town as me too. User:Will Lakeman 21:47, 26 May 2005 (UTC) Jumping into an argument as I've found myself here - Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums and Wikiportal/Music is probably what you want. User:Secretlondon 06:12, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Participant observer, Wiki, and academia== Hi, There is nothing wrong with being a scholarly participant observer here at Wiki, as long as someplace you post a note that you are doing an academic study. On your main User page is a good place to post a note. However to start out a discussion comment by invoking your scholarly status as a researcher; and then make a POV comment about text, is in my view outside the bounds of appropriate Wiki behaviour. Here editors range from folks with post-doctorates to folks without formal education. What matters is good editing and following the rules for citation and support for text being added. As you can probably figure out, just adding a comment on a discussion page that you think an article needs work is generally considered a waste of everyone's time. The point is to edit text. Or as others here often say--"we are writing an encyclopedia, not talking about how to write an encyclopedia." If the latter interests you, there are discussions policy and writing rules elsewhere on Wiki and on discussion lists. Happy editing. --User:Cberlet 13:36, 25 May 2005 (UTC) == Researching with... == I don't know if you've had a look at Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia (mostly written by Dan Keshet and myself). Not exactly your topic, but 3 things: (1) It won't surprise me if you have something to add to it. (2) You will notice that we've discussed in some measure how this differs from a normal reference work, and how a lot of its strengths come more from the potential to engage in dialogue with the authors than from the content as such. (3) Also, we argue for the importance of the transparent apparatus surrounding an article (history and talk, in particular, but also internal links, ability to see what else was written by the same people, etc.) as part of how one can judge the credibility of an article. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 05:37, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) Pear Tree House - there has never been a photo. I will go one weekend up to Crystal Palace and get some, I promise ;) User:Secretlondon 05:36, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Suicide Bombing == : Hey Will. To find out what Shahada means, all you have to do is click on the blue link to Shahadah (or Shahada, it's just an alt spelling of the same word). You read about it elsewhere [http://muttaqun.com/shahada.html Here], [http://www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Discover/Pillars/Shahada_Main.htm Here] or [http://www.nd.edu/~nduma/shahada.htm here]. : [http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sa.html Here it is] on those known Islamists, the CIA's website. ( It says, speaking of the Saudi Flag, "''green, a traditional color in Islamic flags, with the Shahada or Muslim creed in large white Arabic script (translated as \"There is no god but God; Muhammad is the Messenger of God\") above a white horizontal saber (the tip points to the hoist side)''" ). [http://www.islam101.com/dawah/pillars.html Islam 101] says ''""There is none worthy of worship except God and Muhammad is the messenger of God." This declaration of faith is called the Shahadah, a simple formula that all the faithful pronounce. The significance of this declaration is the belief that the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God, and this is achieved through the teachings and practices of the Last Prophet, Muhammad."'' --User:Irishpunktom\User_talk:Irishpunktom 08:11, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC) :: The other well known Islamist group, the Anti-Defamation League are quoted as stating ''"The Anti-Defamation League is respectful of the Shahada, the Muslim Declaration of Faith, which is expressed by millions of Muslims around the world"''. [http://windsofchange.net/archives/005198.php] <- That Link is from a blog entry which deals, to some degree, with the topic at hand, so worth a read! --User:Irishpunktom\User_talk:Irishpunktom 08:33, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC) ::: Our problem is actually dealt with on the Anti-Defamation League page; :::: Tensions flared between American Muslims and the Jewish organization after the ADL issued a June 18, 2004 news release [http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Mise_00/4520_00.htm] about University of California, Ivine (UCI) students' decision to wear green stoles bearing the ''Shahada'', the Islamic declaration of faith, because suicide bombers connected to the Palestinian group Hamas wear green armbands and headbands inscribed with the ''Shahada'' as a symbol of their movement. The news release stated: "The ''Shahada'' has come to represent, in radical Muslim circles, support for martyrdom and terrorist groups." :::: In response to the ADL's comments, Sabiha Khan of the Council on American-Islamic Relations said: ::::
The ADL's hate-filled Islamophobic rhetoric labels all Muslims as terrorists, because every Muslim believes in the declaration of faith as the essence of Islam. It is truly sad that an organization that once fought for religious tolerance has sunk to exploiting anti-Muslim ignorance and prejudice to advance the brutal agenda of a foreign nation. [http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1085&theType=NR]:::: The ADL released a statement of clarity and offered an apology "to those who took offense." [http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Mise_00/4520_00.htm] CAIR acknowledged ADL's apology with a statement expressing hope that the "apology represents a change of heart on the part of the ADL." [http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=32363] --User:Irishpunktom\User_talk:Irishpunktom 08:38, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC) I think your analysis is correct, and your version is fine, Will, but I only get 3 reverts a day, like everyone else. User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 22:50, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) Ultimately you have to request page protection, at WP:RFPP. I can't protect it myself, as I've been involved in recently editing the page. User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 22:59, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) No, you need to request page protection (WP:RFPP), not arbitration. Page protection usually takes a couple of hours, arbitration takes a couple of months. I don't think you want to wait that long. :-) User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 23:38, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) No, articles are typically protected on m:The Wrong Version. User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 13:21, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Suicide bombing== Thanks, Will. The problem is that there's not enough evidence to show who it is. I can block the IP addresses for 3RR, and I'll do that now. I'm assume it's whoever is operating ElKabong/Enviroknot, but I can't be sure. User:SlimVirgin User_talk:SlimVirgin 23:43, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC) :Nothing's to stop them. That's why this has become such a problem: KaintheScion, ElKabong, Enviroknot, and various anon IPs, including open proxies, pretending to the Muslim woman and others. It's almost certainly all the same person. User:SlimVirgin User_talk:SlimVirgin 00:14, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC) == re: Beef (music) == There's already a ''big'' article on hip-hop "beefs", at Hip hop rivalries. I say make this page redirect to that one, and we can add on to what's already there.--User:FuriousFreddy 21:51, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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