The Lord Of The Rings

#redirect The Lord of the Rings

The Lord of the Rings

''The Lord of the Rings'' is an high fantasy fantasy story by J. R. R. Tolkien, a sequel to his earlier work, ''The Hobbit''. It was published in three volumes from 1954 to 1955. Two movie adaptions have been made, the more notable being Peter Jackson's three films released from 2001 to 2003. For more information on the fictional universe the story takes place in, including lists of characters and locations, see Middle-earth. The story's titular character is Dark Lord Sauron of Mordor, the primary villain of the work, who created the Ruling Ring to control the nineteen Rings of power, and is thus the "Lord of the Rings." Sauron, in turn, was the servant of an earlier Dark Lord, Morgoth (Melkor), who is prominent in Tolkien's ''The Silmarillion'', the history of Middle-earth. ==Books and volumes== ===Writing=== Tolkien did not originally intend to write a sequel to ''The Hobbit'', and instead wrote other works, including ''The Silmarillion'' as his main work. He also wrote several other children's tales, including ''Roverandom'' and ''Farmer Giles of Ham'' for publication. He had a deep desire to write a Mythology for England, especially after his horrific experiences during the First World War. He was also influenced by the effects of continued industralisation in England, where he saw much of the England he loved passing away and became aware of the immense evil in the world. Thus to understand his writings we must be aware of how Tolkien the scholar influences Tolkien the author. His writing of this mythology emerges as an Oxford philologist well acquainted with Northern European Medieval Literature including the great mythic works such as the Hervarar saga, the V�lsunga saga, the influential Beowulf as well as other Old Norse, Old and Middle English Texts. He was also inspired by non-Germanic works such as the Finnish epic Kalevala. For a man who had created his first language by the age of seven, he was driven by a desire to write a mythology for England influenced by his exposure and expertise of these ancient traditions. The need for such a myth was often a topic of conversation in his meetings with The Inklings (fellow Oxford scholars, who have been described as Christian Romantics, who would meet weekly and discuss Icelandic myths and their own unpublished compositions). Tolkien agreed with one of the other members of the group, C.S. Lewis, that if there were no adequate myths for England then they would have to write their own. Tolkien's work has been commonly interpreted in this light. Persuaded by his publishers, he started 'a new hobbit' in December 1937. After several false starts, the story of the One Ring soon emerged, and the book mutated from being a sequel to the Hobbit, to being, in theme, more a sequel to the unpublished ''The Silmarillion''. The idea of the first chapter (''A Long-Expected Party'') arrived fully-formed, although the reasons behind Bilbo's disappearance, and the significance of the Ring did not arrive, along with the title ''The Lord of the Rings'' until spring 1938. Originally he was going to write another story in which Bilbo had used up all his treasure and was looking for another adventure to gain more; however he remembered the ring and the powers it had and decided to write about that instead. He started to write it with Bilbo as the main character but decided that the story was too serious to use the fun loving Hobbit so Tolkien looked to use a member of Bilbo's family. He thought about using Bilbo's son but this generated some questions that were not answered in the Hobbit such as where was his wife and how could Bilbo let his son go into that kind of danger so he looked to legend in which it was the hero's nephew that gained the item of power, and so into existence came the Hobbit Frodo. Writing was slow due to Tolkien's perfectionism, and was frequently interrupted by his obligations as an examinations, and other academic duties. (In fact, the first sentence of ''The Hobbit'' was written on a blank page a student had left on an exam paper that Tolkien was grading - "In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit"). He seems to have abandoned the book during most of 1943 and only re-started it in April 1944. This effort was written as a serial for Christopher Tolkien and C.S. Lewis - the former would be sent copies of chapters as they were written while he was serving in Africa in the Royal Air Force. He made another push in 1946, and showed a copy of the manuscript to his publishers in 1947. The story was effectively finished the next year, but Tolkien did not finish revising earlier parts of the work until 1949. A dispute with his publishers, Allen & Unwin, led to the book being offered to Collins in 1950. He intended ''the Silmarillion'' (itself largely unrevised at this point) to be published along with ''The Lord of the Rings'', but A&U were unwilling to do this. After his contact at Collins, Milton Waldman, expressed the belief that ''The Lord of the Rings'' itself 'urgently needed cutting', he eventually demanded that they publish the book in 1952. They did not do so, and so Tolkien grovelled to Allen and Unwin, saying "I would gladly consider the publication of any part of the stuff". ===Publication=== For publication, (due largely to post-war paper shortages, but also to keep the price of the first volume down) the book was divided into three volumes (''The Fellowship of the Ring (book)'': Books I and II; ''The Two Towers (book)'': Books III and IV; and ''The Return of the King (book)'': Books V and VI, 6 appendices). Delays in producing appendices and maps led to these being published later than originally hoped - on the 29 July and 11 November 1954 and 20 October 1955 in the United Kingdom, slightly later in the United States. ''The Return of the King'' was especially delayed. He did not, however, much like the title ''The Return of the King'', believing it gave away too much of the storyline. He had originally suggested ''The War of the Ring'' which was dismissed by his publishers. The books were published under a 'profit-sharing' arrangement, where Tolkien would not receive an advance or royalties until the books had broken even, but after then take a large share of the profits. An index to the entire 3-volume set at the end of third volume was promised in the first volume. However, this proved impractical to compile in a reasonable timescale. Later, in 1966, four indices which were not compiled by Tolkien were added to ''The Return of the King''. Because the three-volume binding was so widely distributed, the work is usually referred to as the ''Lord of the Rings'' "trilogy". Tolkien himself made use of the term "trilogy" for the work, though he did at other times consider this incorrect, as it was written and conceived as a single novel. A 1999 (Millennium Edition) United Kingdom (ISBN 0-262-10399-7) 7-volume box set followed the six-book division authored by Tolkien, but with the Appendices from the end of Book VI bound as a separate volume. The letters of ''Tolkien'' appear on the spines of the boxed set which includes a CD. The individual names for books in this series were decided posthumously, based on a combination of suggestions Tolkien had made during his lifetime, title of the volumes, and whole cloth - viz: * T Book I: ''The Ring Sets Out'' * O Book II: ''The Ring Goes South'' * L Book III: ''The Treason of Isengard'' * K Book IV: ''The Ring Goes East'' * I Book V: ''The War of the Ring'' * E Book VI: ''The End of the Third Age'' * N Appendices The name of the complete work is often abbreviated to 'LotR', 'LOTR', or simply 'LR', and the three volumes as FR, FOTR, or FotR (The Fellowship of the Ring), TT or TTT (The Two Towers), and RK, ROTK, or RotK (The Return of the King). Note that the three titles ''The Return of the Shadow'', ''The Treason of Isengard'' and ''The War of the Ring'' were used by Christopher Tolkien in The History of The Lord of the Rings. Some locations and characters were inspired by Tolkien's childhood in Sarehole (then a Warwickshire village, now part of Birmingham) and in Birmingham itself. == Publication history == The three parts were first published by Allen & Unwin in 1954–1955 several months apart. They were later reissued many times by multiple publishers, as one, three, six or seven volumes. Two current printings are ISBN 0-618-34399-7 (one-volume) and ISBN 0-618-34624-4 (three volume set). In the early 1960s, Donald A. Wollheim, science fiction editor of the paperback publisher Ace Books, realized that ''The Lord of the Rings'' was not protected in the United States under American copyright law because the US hardcover edition had been bound from pages printed in the UK for the British edition. Ace Books proceeded to publish an edition, unauthorized by Tolkien and without compensation to him. Tolkien made this plain to US fans who wrote to him. Grass-roots pressure became so great that Ace books withdrew their edition and made a nominal payment to Tolkien, well below what he might have been due in an appropriate publication. However, this poor beginning was overshadowed when an authorized edition followed from Ballantine Books to tremendous commercial success. By the mid-1960s the books, due to their wide exposure on the American public stage, had become a true cultural phenomenon. The Second Edition of the Lord of the Rings dates from this time - Tolkien undertook various textual revisions to produce a version of the book that would have a valid U.S. copyright. The books have been translated, with various degrees of success, into dozens of other languages. Tolkien, an expert in philology, examined many of these translations, and had comments on each that illuminate both the translation process and his work. The enormous popular success of Tolkien's epic saga greatly expanded the demand for fantasy fiction. Largely thanks to ''The Lord of the Rings'', the genre flowered throughout the 1960s. Many well-written books of this genre were published (comparable works include the ''Earthsea'' books of Ursula K. Le Guin, the ''Thomas Covenant'' novels of Stephen R. Donaldson, and in the case of the ''Gormenghast'' books by Mervyn Peake, rediscovered.). It also strongly influenced the role playing game industry that achieved popularity in the 1970s with ''Dungeons & Dragons'' which featured many creatures that could be found in Tolkien's books. As in all artistic fields, a great many lesser derivatives of the more prominent works appeared. The term "Tolkienesque" is used in the genre to refer to the oft-used and abused storyline of ''The Lord of the Rings'': a group of adventurers embarking on a quest to save a magical fantasy world from the armies of an evil "Dark Lord". == The books == ''The Lord of the Rings'' began as a personal exploration by Tolkien of his interests in philology, religion particularly Roman Catholicism; fairy tales, and Norse mythology and Celtic mythology mythology. Tolkien detailed his creation to an astounding extent; he created a complete mythology for his realm of Middle-earth, including genealogies of characters, languages, runes, calendars and histories. Some of this supplementary material is detailed in the appendices to ''The Lord of the Rings'', and the mythological history was woven into a large, biblically-styled volume entitled ''The Silmarillion''. J. R. R. Tolkien once described ''The Lord of the Rings'' as "''a fundamentally religious and Catholic work''" he wrote to his friend, the English Jesuit Father Robert Murray, "''unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision.''"(''The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien'', 142). There are many theological themes underlying the narrative, the battle of good versus evil, the triumph of weakness over self destructive evil, the activity of grace, Death and Immortality, Resurrection, Salvation, Repentance, Self-Sacrifice, Free Will, Humility, Justice, Fellowship, Authority and Healing. In it the great virtues of Mercy and Pity (shown by Bilbo and Frodo towards Gollum) win the day and the message from the Lord's Prayer "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil" was very much on Tolkien's mind as Frodo struggled against the power of the One Ring (''Letters'', 181 and 191). Tolkien did repeatedly insist that his works were not an allegory of any kind, and even though his thoughts on the matter are mentioned in the introduction of the book, there has been heavy speculation about the Ruling Ring being an allegory for the atom bomb. However, these comparisons do not withstand a careful look at the facts. Before atomic weapons were first detonated on August 6 and August 9, 1945, Tolkien had already completed most of the book, and planned the ending in entirety – an atom bomb had certainly never been the basis for the Ring. However there is a strong theme of despair in front of new mechanized warfare that Tolkien himself had experienced in the trenches of World War One. The development of a specially bred orc army, and the destruction of the environment to aid this have modern resonances. The plot of ''The Lord of the Rings'' builds from his earlier book ''The Hobbit'' and more obliquely from the history in ''The Silmarillion'', which contains events to which the characters of ''The Lord of the Rings'' look back upon in the book. The hobbits become embroiled in great events that threaten their entire world, as Sauron, the servant of evil, attempts to regain the lost One Ring which will restore him to full potency. === The Verse of the Rings === :''Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,'' :'' Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,'' :''Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,'' :'' One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne'' :''In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.'' :'' One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,'' :'' One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them'' :''In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.'' The lines : :'' One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,'' :'' One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them'' are inscribed in the language of Sauron and Mordor (the Black Speech) on the One Ring itself. Phonetically it would be: :''Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul'' === The storyline === See the articles on ''The Fellowship of the Ring (book)'', ''The Two Towers (book)'', and ''The Return of the King (book)'' for plot summaries. == Criticism == The book was characterized as "juvenile balderdash" by American critic Edmund Wilson in his essay "Oo, those awful Orcs", and in 1961 Philip Toynbee wrote, somewhat prematurely, that it had "passed into a merciful oblivion" [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/1695926.stm]. Germaine Greer wrote "it has been my nightmare that Tolkien would turn out to be the most influential writer of the twentieth century. The bad dream has materialized", although she had never read ''Lord of the Rings''. ''New York Times'' critic Judith Shulevitz said that its prose is so bad that it represents "death to literature itself" [http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0123/dibbell.php]. W.H. Auden also criticized the book in a 1968 ''Critical Quarterly'' article, "Good and evil in ''The Lord of the Rings''," objecting to Tolkien's conception of sentient species that are intrinsically evil without possibility of redemption. (This is a criticism often directed at Dungeons and Dragons-like fantasy worlds as well as at Fantasy literature in general.) On the other hand, in a 1956 ''New York Times'' book review, "At the end of the Quest, Victory," Auden also called the trilogy "a masterpiece of its genre" that "succeeded where John Milton failed" in depicting an epic battle between good and evil, and wrote that it "never violated" the "reader's sense of the credible." Science-fiction author David Brin has criticized the books for unquestioning devotion to a traditional elitism social structure, their positive depiction of the slaughter of the opposing forces, and their romantic backward-looking worldview [http://www.davidbrin.com/tolkienarticle1.html]. == ''The Lord of the Rings'' on film == ===Early efforts=== There were plans for the Beatles to do a version of ''The Lord of the Rings'' but they came to nothing. It was even said that Stanley Kubrick had looked into the possibility of filming the story, but he abandoned the idea as too "immense" to be made into a movie. In the mid-1970s, renowned film director John Boorman collaborated with film rights holder and producer Saul Zaentz to do a live action picture, but the project proved too expensive to finance at that time. In 1978, Rankin-Bass studios produced the first real The Hobbit (1977 movie) of any ''Lord of the Rings'' related material with an animated television version of ''The Hobbit'', which was a precursor to the ''The Lord of the Rings''. Shortly after, Saul Zaentz picked up where Rankin-Bass left off by producing an animation adaptation of ''The Fellowship of the Ring'' and part of ''The Two Towers'' in 1978. ''The Lord of the Rings (1978 movie)'', originally released by United Artists was directed by Ralph Bakshi and used an animation technique called Rotoscope in which footage of live actors was filmed and then traced over. This film was of uneven quality (perhaps a result of budget pressure or overruns, or difficulty grappling with the magnitude of the book). Additionally, the film ended somewhat abruptly after the battle of Helm's Deep, but before Sam, Frodo and Gollum traverse the Dead Marshes. Despite his best efforts, Bakshi was never able to do a Part II (covering the rest of the story), leaving the door open for Rankin-Bass to do the work for him with the 1980 animated television version of ''The Return of the King (1980 movie)''. Since these films were targeted to a younger audience, adult enthusiasts have complained that much of the depth and darkness of the stories was discarded. These efforts seemed to suggest that a satisfactory movie treatment of ''The Lord of the Rings'' was not practicable. Moreover, since overall interest in the novel had waned somewhat, prospects for a visual treatment seemed poor. However, advances in filmmaking techniques, in particular the development of computer graphics, made a movie treatment more feasible. ===The Peter Jackson films=== Miramax Films developed a full-fledged live-action adaptation of ''The Lord of the Rings'', with Peter Jackson as director. Eventually, with Miramax becoming increasingly uneasy with the sheer scope of the proposed project, Peter Jackson was given the opportunity to find another studio to take over. In 1998, New Line Cinema assumed production responsibility (Miramax executives Bob Weinstein and Harvey Weinstein retained on-screen credits as executive producers on the films). The three live action films (supplemented with extensive computer-generated imagery, for example in the major battle scenes) were filmed simultaneously. ''The Fellowship of the Ring (movie)'' was released on December 19, 2001. ''The Two Towers (movie)'' was released on December 18, 2002 and ''The Return of the King (movie)'' was released on December 17, 2003. All three films won the Hugo Award for Best (Long-form) Dramatic Presentation in their respective years. Although some have criticized these films because they have altered the story somewhat and, arguably, have a substantially different tone from Tolkien's original vision, others have hailed them as remarkable achievements. Noted critic Roger Ebert wrote, "[Jackson] has taken an enchanting and unique work of literature and retold it in the terms of the modern action picture. [...] To do what he has done in this film must have been awesomely difficult, and he deserves applause, but to remain true to Tolkien would have been more difficult, and braver" [http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20021218/REVIEWS/212180301/1023]. Peter Jackson's film adaptation garnered seventeen Oscars (four for ''The Fellowship of the Ring'', two for ''The Two Towers'', and eleven for ''The Return of the King''); these cover many of the awards categories (in fact, ''The Return of the King'' won all of the eleven awards for which it was nominated, including Best Picture). ''The Return of the King'''s Oscar sweep is widely seen as a proxy award for the entire trilogy. ''The Return of the King'''s 11 Oscars at the 2004 Academy Awards tied it for most awards for one film with ''Titanic (1997 movie)'' six years earlier and the 1959 version of ''Ben-Hur (1959 film)''. The visual-effects work has been groundbreaking, particularly the creation of the emotionally versatile digital character Gollum. The scale of the production alone —three films shot and edited back to back over a period of more than three years— is unprecedented. The films have also proven to be substantial box office successes. The premiere of ''The Return of the King'' took place in Wellington, New Zealand on December 1, 2003 and was surrounded by fan celebrations and official promotions (the production of the films having contributed significantly to the New Zealand economy). It has made movie history as the largest Wednesday opening ever. ''The Return of the King'' was also the second movie in history (after ''Titanic (1997 movie)'') to earn over 1 billion $US (worldwide). Note, however, that these numbers are all unadjusted for inflation, making their significance questionable. Adjusted for inflation, as of 24 March 2005, the three films rank (in order of release) as the 71st, 56th, and 49th highest-grossing films in the United States [http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm]. == ''The Lord of the Rings'' on radio == The BBC produced a 13-part radio adaptation of ''The Lord of the Rings'' in 1956, and a 6-part version of ''The Hobbit'' in 1966. It is uncertain whether Tolkien ever heard either series. No recording of the 1956 series is known to exist, but ''The Hobbit'' has survived. It is a very faithful adaptation, incorporating some passing references to ''The Lord of the Rings'' and the Silmarillion. A 1979 dramatization was broadcast in the USA and subsequently issued on tape and CD. No cast or credits appear on the audio packaging. Each of the actors was apparently recorded separately and then the various parts were edited together. Thus, unlike a BBC recording session where the actors are recorded together, none of the cast are actually interacting with each other and the performances suffer badly as a result. In 1981 the BBC broadcast a new, ambitious dramatization of ''The Lord of the Rings'' in 26 half-hour instalments. See: ''The Lord of the Rings (1981 radio series)''. == ''The Lord of the Rings'' on stage == Ed_Mirvish has started rehearsals for a three-hour stage musical adaptation of ''The Lord of the Rings'' that will have a cast of over 65 actors and cost $27 million (Canadian_dollar). The show will be written by Shaun McKenna and Matthew Warchus with music by A. R. Rahman and Vtinith Christopher Nightingale and will be directed by Warchus. It will premiere spring 2006 in Toronto, with plans to later expand to London and New York City. == Pop culture references to ''The Lord of the Rings'' == * Leonard Nimoy's music: "The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins" (1968) is based around this series (in particular ''The Hobbit''). * Led Zeppelin's music: "Ramble On" (1969) refers to Gollum and Mordor, "Misty Mountain Hop" (1971) is named after Tolkien's Misty Mountains, and "The Battle of Evermore" (1971) is an actual allegory from the "Battle of the Pelennor Fields" from ''The Return of the King''. Also, "Stairway to Heaven" makes allusions to Lord of the Rings in the lines "There's a feeling I get/When I look into the West/And my spirit is crying for leaving." * Swedish musician Bo Hansson has made an entire concept album titled ''The Lord of the Rings'' (1972). * Genesis (band) song "Stagnation" (from ''Trespass (album)'', 1970) was about Gollum. The most direct references being "''And I will wait for ever, beside the silent mirror. And fish for bitter minnows amongst the weeds and slimy water.''" and "''To take all the dust and the dirt from my throat,To wash out the filth that is deep in my guts.''" * Rush (band) has a song called "Rivendell" (1975) on their ''Fly by Night'' album. * Styx (band) has a song called "Lords of the Ring" on their ''Pieces of Eight'' album (1978). * The Austrian musician Gandalf (Heinz Stobl) chose his name with reference to the hobbits' wizard friend. He has composed several pieces of music which deal with themes and characters originating from ''The Lord of the Rings'', some of which can be found on his second album, ''Visions'' (1981). * There are various references to ''The Lord of the Rings'', e.g. to the Ents, in ''The Talisman'' (1984), a novel by Stephen King and Peter Straub. * The Wargames Research Group set of fantasy miniatures rules, ''Hordes of the Things'' (HotT), was first published in 1991. * The German metal band Blind Guardian has a song called "Lord of the Rings" on the album ''Tales from the Twilight World'' (1991). They also released an album based on ''The Silmarillon'' called ''Nightfall in Middle-Earth'' (1998), including songs like "The Curse of F�anor", and "Into The Storm", retelling the struggle Middle Earth endured when the Two Trees were destroyed. Some of their other works also contain references to Tolkien's creations. * Enya recorded the song "Lothl�rien" in 1991 and also performed the songs "May It Be" and "An�ron" for the soundtrack of Peter Jackson's film The Fellowship of the Ring (movie). * Some songs by the celtic metal band Cruachan (band), such as "The Fall of Gondolin" (1992), have been inspired by ''The Lord of the Rings''. * The progressive rock group Glass Hammer has numerous Tolkien-influenced songs, including "Nimrodel", and a CD entitled ''Journey of the D�nadan'' (1993). * The TV show ''Babylon 5'' (1993-1998) includes occasional homages to ''The Lord of the Rings'', as well as epic themes drawn from similar mythology roots. ''See Babylon 5 influences for a more detailed exploration''. * The Finnish musicians Nightwish have a song called "Elvenpath" on their album ''Angels Fall First'' (1997) which features a Lord of the Rings sample. * The Tolkien Ensemble has created ''An Evening in Rivendell'' (1997), ''A Night in Rivendell'' (2000) and ''At Dawn in Rivendell'' (2003), composing original music to practically all the songs and poems in ''The Lord of the Rings''. A fourth CD is planned. * The modern-era hero in Neal Stephenson's ''Cryptonomicon'' (1999) views himself as a dwarf, his grandfather the cryptanalyst as an elf, an ex-U.S. Navy SEALs as one of the race of Men, and refers to his nemesis (a psychotic lawyer) as ''Gollum''. He recognizes Enoch Root as a wizard and, true to form, Enoch appears in the Baroque Cycle as well. * The group Nickel Creek has a song called "The House of Tom Bombadil" (''Nickel Creek'', 2000). * The Brobdingnagian Bards have named one of their tracks "Tolkien" (2001), and the remix "The Lord of the Rings". * The band Lorien is named after the forest Lothlorien in the novel. * The Spain metal band Lorien released an album in 2002 entitled ''Secrets of the Eldar'' with such songs as "The Voice of Saruman". * Alan Horvath started writing the songs for ''The 'Rings Project'' (2004) in 1972. * There are various metal bands owing their names to Tolkien's fictional languages, such as Aglarond (Mexico), Akallab�th (Sweden), Amon Amarth (Sweden), Alm�riel (Russia), Amon Din (Serbia), Anarion (Australia), Arda (Austria), Avatar (Belgium), Azaghal (Finland), Azrael (Spain), Burzum (Norway), Cirith Gorgor (Netherlands), Cirith Ungol (US), Dol Amroth (Greece), Izengard (India), Fangorn (Germany) and many more. The ''Lord of the Rings'' books were one of the main original inspirations for the ''Dungeons & Dragons'' role-playing game, and hence continue to be a major influence on the entire field of role-playing and computer games having fantasy epic themes. Several games have been based directly on ''The Lord of the Rings'' and related works, including, amongst many, SPI's ''War of the Ring'' (1977), Iron Crown Enterprises' (ICE's) Middle-Earth Role-Playing Game (MERP, 1982-1999) and Middle-earth: The Wizards Collectible Card Game (MetW CCG, 1995-1999), the ''Lord of the Rings'' series of board games by Reiner Knizia (2000 onward), a variant of Risk (game) (2002) as well as the Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game (2001) made by Decipher, Inc.. === Satire and parody based on ''The Lord of the Rings'' === * The Harvard Lampoon satire ''Bored of the Rings''. * A little-known BBC Radio series, ''Hordes of the Things'' (1980) attempted to parody heroic fantasy in the style of ''The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy''. * A German resynchronization of the ''Fellowship'''s first twenty minutes, called ''[http://www.bpk-entertainment.de Lord of the Weed - Sinnlos in Mittelerde]'', portrays the characters as highly drug addicted. * Quickbeam and Bombadil, ''[http://www.lordsoftherhymes.com/ the Lords of the Rhymes]'', mix Tolkien's fantasy world with hip-hop. * Two New York City based authors, Jessica and Chris, parody Tolkien's work in combination with Buffy the Vampire Slayer in ''[http://omwh.com/ Once More With Hobbits]''. * Several former members of Mystery Science Theater 3000 created ''[http://www.scifi.com/edwardtheless/ Edward the Less]'' which parodies the trilogy. * The episode of South Park entitled ''The Return of the Fellowship of the Ring to the Two Towers'' spoofs Peter Jackson's version of the trilogy. A few elements from Jackson's ''The Return of the King'' appear in the episode ''Best Friends Forever''. * The first chapter of ''The Woad To Wuin'' by Peter David is entitled "Lord of the Thing". * ''[http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/book/book.htm The Lord Of The... whatever]'', a "transcribed electronic text version", written by the Tolkien fans of the rec.arts.books.tolkien newsgroup as a reply to those who ask where can they download an electronic copy of the book. It has lots of fan in-jokes, like whether Balrogs have wings or not, a long-standing debate in the Tolkien fandom. * [http://www.whatthefolk.net/ Flight of the Conchords] claim that their parody ''Frodo'' was rejected as a theme song for Peter Jackson's movies. Incidentally, Bret McKenzie (one half of the band) played an elf in the ''Fellowship'', and his character (now known as Figwit) has become an unusual web celebrity, attracting [http://www.figwitlives.net/ fan sites] and even a [http://www.geocities.com/figwit_is_evil/Evil_figwit.html hate site]. * ''[http://www.ringthing.ch/index.php The Ring Thing]'', a Swiss parody of Peter Jackson's films, has been very popular in Switzerland. However it has received mixed reviews. The movie's dialogue is in Swiss German. * MADtv spoofed the series with ''The Lords of the Bling'', with various actors/actresses portraying characters as Gandalf, Frodo, Legolas, etc. * ''[http://www.lysator.liu.se/~ekman/en/article1.html Kingdom O' Magic]'', by Fergus McNeill. He became famous during the eighties for games such as ''Bored of the Rings'' (influenced by, but not adapted from, the Harvard Lampoon book) and ''The Boggit''. * ''[http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/living/columnists/dave_barry/5023564.htm Why can't they just lose the ring in the sink?]'', humour columnist Dave Barry's satire. * ''Dead Ringers'', BBC Radio/TV satirical comedy show regularly features Lord of the Rings-themed sketches, usually with the characters of Gandalf, Saruman and Frodo. * Bobo, a very popular Serbian voice-over video on scene from the first film, which features Boromir and Frodo as gay lovers. It spawned many other voice-overs, some good, some bad. * British Comedy duo French & Saunders have also satired and spoofed in detail Peter Jackson's ''The Fellowship of the Ring'' in a BBC 2002 Easter Special entitled "The Egg". * A parody entitled ''teh l0rd of teh Ringz0rs'' has done the rounds of bulletin boards systems. Based on the Counter-Strike indebted '1337 speak' it retells scenes, primarily from the Peter Jackson films, in the style of a '1337 hax0r' or online gamer. == See also == * Antimodernism - The Lord of the Rings could be considered an antimodernist work in that it expresses affection for a simple, non-mechanistic life. In this view, the bucolic Shire is the embodiment of the good life, while the industrialized Isengard is foul and corrupt. * The Atom - The above characterization can be given more detail if the One Ring is taken to be a metaphor for atomic energy or the atomic bomb, as has been proposed by some. However, the book was not published until the 1950s, and the plot element of the ''One Ring'' dates to the 1930s, when Tolkien could not have known about atomic energy. Furthermore, Tolkien himself said that he despised allegory and said The Lord of the Rings was never meant to be an allegory. He specifically raised the possibility of an allegory in which the Ring symbolized the atomic bomb in the Forward to the revised edition, and rejected it, syaing that such an allegory would have been quite a different book. It is safe to conclude that Tolkien intended no such meaning. However, an author's intention is not a strict limit on the meaning that readers may take (see Intentional Fallacy); a metaphor to atomic energy is often noted by modern readers. Certainly the idea of a power too great for humans to safely wield, always evocative, was especially so in the years after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In addition to an atomic energy metaphor, a metaphor to the possible destructive applications of molecular manufacturing or synthetic biology is conceivable. * The Cursed Ring - Links ''The Lord of the Rings'' to Plato's 'The Ring of Gyges' and Richard Wagner's 'Der Ring des Nibelungen'. *DVD TV Games, reference to The Lord of the Rings DVD TV Game developed by Hasbro and released in 2005. *The Tolkien Relation, by William Ready ISBN 0-446-30110-8 - An inquiry by the author examining the sources and symbolism of the work. *J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography, by Humphrey Carpenter, ISBN 0-618-05702-1. * Hex Combat, a Lord of the Rings themed collectable miniatures game I am messed upl; == External links == * [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm The Encyclopedia of Arda - Mark Fisher's tribute site to the works of Tolkien] * [http://tolkiengateway.net Tolkien Gateway] * [http://tolkiengateway.net/collectors Tolkien Collectors Gateway] * [http://www.thetolkienwiki.org The Tolkien Wiki Community] * [http://www.theonering.net TheOneRing.net - forged by and for fans of J.R.R. Tolkien] * [http://www.councilofelrond.com Council of Elrond - news and scholarship] * [http://www.lotrplaza.com/ The Lord of the Rings Fanatics Plaza - Tolkien Community] * [http://www.sdragons.com/Bibliographies/Tolkien.html Tolkien Bibliography] * [http://www.sacred-texts.com/ring/index.htm Textual sources of the Lord of the Rings at sacred-texts.com; includes full etexts of the Kalevala, Norse Sagas, Welsh Mabinoginen and The Worm Ouroboros.] * [http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/editions.html Guide to currently available U.S. editions of the books of J.R.R. Tolkien] * [http://www.tolkiensociety.org/ The web site of tolkien society: lot of Tolkien materials and studies.] * [http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/tolksarc.htm The Tolkien Sarcasm Page] has an extensive collection of tongue-in-cheek scholarly articles on the works of Tolkien. === ''The Lord of the Rings'' movies links === * [http://www.lordoftherings.net/ New Line Cinema's LOTR movies website] * Peter Jackson's * Peter Jackson's * Peter Jackson's * Ralph Bakshi's 1978 film * [http://jackflannel.org/lotr/ A Nit-Pickers Guide to Deviations Between the Books and the Films] === ''The Lord of the Rings'' games links=== * [http://http://www.eagames.com/official/lordoftherings/thethirdage/us/home.jsp The Lord of The Rings The Third Age] * [http://vugames.com/product.do?gamePlatformId=145 The Lord of the Rings The Fellowship of The Ring] * [http://www.eagames.com/official/lordoftherings/thetwotowers/us/home.jsp The Lord of the Rings The Two Towers] * [http://www.eagames.com/official/lordoftherings/returnoftheking/us/index.jsp The Lord of the Rings The Return of the King] * [http://www.jamdat.com/JamdatWeb/Catalog/US/en/game/mobile/ProductDetailOverviewView/genre-1082666698722/product-23110 Lord of the Rings Pinball] * [http://www.eagames.com/official/lordoftherings/thebattleformiddleearth/us/index.jsp The Lord of the Rings The Battle for Middle Earth] * [http://www.warofthering.com The Lord of the Rings War of the Ring] Media franchises Middle-earth books Novels Novel sequences British novels Fantasy ga:An Tiarna nam F�inne gd:An Tighearna nam F�innean th:ลอร์ดออฟเดอะริงส์ vi:Chúa tể của những chiếc nhẫn

The Lord of the Rings

/archive ==Jackson movies== why dont you slag on the jackson movies? your treatment is a bit brief. what more do the critics say than 'deviated from the story' and that the 'tone' is different? any examples? but really this is a great article, thanks. :The primary reason that the treatment of the movies is brief is that this article is not about the movies. For that, see The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (movie), The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (movie), and The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (movie). Hope this helps. --User:Paul A 07:10, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC) :The Lord of the Rings is a work that will stand for all time; as long as Chaucer or Shakespeare or Dante; I'm not being sarcastic. There have been several film adaptations of "Beowulf". Thus, should the wiki article on Beowulf center on ''one'' of these films that was made in, say, the 1950's? No. Over the period of decades if not a hundred years, there is a good possibility there will be new LOTR movie adaptations. That's not to say that the current adaptation isn't stellar in its quality. However, the movies still have more the feel of an ''interpretation'' than a ''definative'' adaptation. There are various changes in mood and pacing that could have been made which really don't affect the story at all, but stylistically could alter things quite a bit. We will see differently styled adaptations of this story over the years, and the movie adaptations cannot compare to the books.--- User:Ricimer 2:56, Sept 27 (EST) ==Category:Birmingham, England?== What has the :Category:Birmingham, England to do with the Lord of the Rings? That category shouldn't be in there just because Tolkien was inspired by some places there. Please don't overcategorize. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 14:47, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) :The category has very little to do with LotR; LotR, on the other hand, has a lot to do with Birmingham. That's why LotR is being categorised as "Birmingham related", and not vice versa. Please don't under-categorise. User:Pigsonthewing 14:54, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::The Lord of the Ring is related to a ton of things (and categories), and not all of them should be added to the article (as a category), that's what I mean with overcategorization. It is worth mentioning that Tolkien was inspired by some things in Birmingham, but the category itself is unnecessary. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 15:11, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::The category is not being added to the article; the article is being added to the category. User:Pigsonthewing 15:31, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::::Neither does the category belong to the article, nor does the article belong to the category, I explained above why. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 16:31, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::::Of course the article belongs to the category (I haven't claimed vice versa); your assertion otherwise is fallacious. User:Pigsonthewing 16:46, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::::::Why does this article belong to the category? In my opinion, the reason that Tolkien was inspired by some places in Birmingham is not enough. The article does not belong to the :Category:Constructed languages either, although there are many constructed langauges in The Lord of the Rings and it is said that Tolkien wrote the book just because of his invented languages. Only articles that directly relate to Birmingham should be added to :Category:Birmingham, England. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 17:24, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) I agree - this article doesn't belong in :Category:Birmingham, England. User:Ausir 19:42, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) :Would you have a problem if I added a link to this page from list of topics related to Birmingham, England? Well, we have a category instead of that page. User:Pigsonthewing 21:42, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::I wouldn't have a problem with that. I would have a problem if you would link from The Lord of the Rings to list of topics related to Birmingham, England tho, and that's exactly what the category does, as a category links from category to article and from article to category. This article has a link to Birmingham anyways. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 21:52, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::So complain to the coders that you don't like how Categories work. User:Pigsonthewing 22:14, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::::The category system works just fine, it just has to be used correctly. The Lord of the Rings is not directly related to Birmingham and therefore does not belong to that category. Maybe we should get some other opinions on this to clarify things. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 22:28, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::::'' The Lord of the Rings is not directly related to Birmingham '' - You present that opinion as though it were fact. User:Pigsonthewing 22:31, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::::::It is just my opinion. If you disagree, give me a reasons why you do. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 22:39, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::Both adding LotR to the Birmingham category and adding Birmingham to :Category:Middle-earth places would be overcategorization. User:Ausir 09:00, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::But then, no-one is suggesting doing both. User:Pigsonthewing 09:17, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::::No, but one is comparable ot the other. We could add many categories regarding other stuff that inspired Tolkien - :Category:Languages, :Category:Medieval history, :Category:Norse mythology, :Category:Christianity, :Category:World War I, :Category:World War II, but it would be overcategorization, because they are not relevant enough to the article to add it to those categories. User:Ausir 09:35, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::::: reductio ad absurdum. User:Pigsonthewing 09:49, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::::: Just to clarify on this old thread (since it's still here), reductio ad absurdum is a LOGICAL way of proving things. The word absdurd refers to the use of extremes to prove a point, not that the argument itself is absurd. As the page you linked states, it is one of logic and maths finest weapons ;) --User:Sketchee 06:44, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC) Not at all, for me :Category:Medieval literature, :Category:Medieval history, and :Category:Norse mythology were much more important inspirations than Birmingham. User:Ausir 11:47, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) :My opinion: LOTR does not belong to the category of Birmingham. Purely hypotehtically, if the category were named something like "Category: Literature inspired by Birmingham", it *might* be applicable. However, there is no direct relation between LOTR and the category of Birmingham. Although Andy dismisses Ausir's overcategorization as reducio ad absurdum, precisely the same argument can be made that LOTR has some tangential relation to these things (and arguably a more direct relation than Birmingham). It is very dead-on that if LOTR is included in the category of Birmingham, then there is no end of tangential categories in which it could be included. I say stop the slippery slope now--an article should ONLY be included in a category if A) the subject is explicitly a member of the said category; or B) bears a direct and significant relation to both the category in general and the other members of the category. User:Bkonrad≠User talk:Bkonrad 15:59, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) Looking at :Category:Birmingham, England, there are other articles (Black Sabbath, Wizzard, The Archers) that do not really belong in that category as well.. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 16:16, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) :They all belong there. User:Pigsonthewing 16:37, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::I would similarly hate to see everything concerning Sindarin under some such category as ''Welsh language'' because the phonology of Sindarin is greatly based on Welsh, or everything concerning Quenya marked by some such category as ''Finnish language'' because Quenya's phonology is much influenced by Finnish. I would not explect most of the Sherlock Holmes stories to appear under the category "London" because they take place in (at least in part) in London. In any case, I am unaware that Tolkien was inspired ''in any way'' by the Birmingham of his day (except perhaps in part in his depiction of Mordor?). The Shire was partly inspired by Sarehole which was not part of Birmingham at the time and the rural Sarehole that inspired Tolkien has long gone. ''The Lord of the Rings'' does not even belong under some supposed category "Sarehole". An article about the Shire which documented how it was partly based on Tolkien's youth in ''Sarehole'' might reasonably be placed under a category of "Sarehole" because of that mention. But that should be as far as one should go. User:Jallan 16:39, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::'' In any case, I am unaware that Tolkien was inspired in any way by the Birmingham of his day''; You may be unaware, but I can see the ''Two Towers'' from my (Birmingham) office window. Besides, Sarehole is/now/ in Birmingham. User:Pigsonthewing 16:57, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::::Patent nonsense! The Sarehole that inspired Tolkien was not in Birmingham (though I understand the mill still survives). As to the "Two Towers", see ''Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien'', letter 140: ::::

The Two Towers gets as near as possible to finding a title to cover the widely divergent Books 3 and 4; and can be left ambiguous – it might refer to Isengard and Barad-d�r, or to Minas Tirith and B; or Isengard and Cirith Ungol.

::::Tolkien only came up with the expression "Two Towers" when his publisher decided to split the book into three volumes and he needed a title for each volume. Until then there were no "Two Towers" and he himself wasn't sure then which towers were meant. ::::From letter 143: ::::

I am not at all happy about the title 'the Two Towers'. It must if there is any real reference in it to Vol II refer to Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol. But since there is so much made of the basic opposition of the Dark Tower and Minas Tirith, that seems very misleading.

::::I am quite ''aware'' you are not seeing either of those towers from your office window, unless you are hallucinating. Stop indulging civic vanity. Let a Birmingham category have to do directly with Birmingham. ::::The ''Daily Planet'' newspaper in the Superman comic book was originally based called the ''Daily Star'', the name based on a Toronto newpaperpaper called the ''Evening Star'', later to become the ''[http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Render&inifile=futuretense.ini&c=Page&cid=968332188492&pubid=968163964505 Toronto Star]''. (See [http://members.tripod.com/~davidschutz/superman3.html When Superman worked at the Star].) But that would not be sufficient reason to list the Wikipedia Daily Planet article under a "Toronto" category, much less list Superman under a "Toronto" category. You are far overstretching the category ''Birmingham''. User:Jallan 22:15, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::::So the last sentence in the lead paragraph ("Several locations and characters were inspired by Tolkien's childhood in Birmingham - The Two Towers stand behind his old school, for instance.") should be removed as well? Was Tolkien inspired by Birmingham at all or is just the Two Towers example false? --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 23:11, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::::::The Shire was partly inspired by his childhood in Sarehole, which is now part of Birmingham, but was not by then. User:Ausir 23:27, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::::::I moved the sentence down and shortenend it now. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 23:40, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) I agree with ContiE that there is a great deal of bad categorization in :Category:Birmingham, England. Some content, like LOTR, is very tangential in it's connection at best. Others could arguably belong in a subcategory, such as "Music of Birmingham" or such like that which conveys some semantic indication as to why the subject belongs to the category. User:Bkonrad≠User talk:Bkonrad 17:07, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) I still see no real argument why the category should be on this article, but everyone removing the catgeory is getting reverted. What to do with such a case? --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 21:28, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) :Stop reverting the article to add this category. As you can see, the Wikipedia:consensus is not to add it. User:Ausir 21:47, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::I came here from RFC and agree that the category should be removed, as mentioned abouve if you're not going to add directly-related categories you can add alot of things like Category:Languages, Category:Medieval history, Category:Norse mythology, Category:Christianity, Category:World War I, Category:World War II, Category:Iceland, Category:Monsters,Catgory:Vampiers,Category:Midgets etc.--User:�var Arnfj�r� Bjarmason User:�var Arnfj�r� Bjarmason/ User talk:�var Arnfj�r� Bjarmason/ [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:%c6var_Arnfj%f6r%f0_Bjarmason&action=edit§ion=new Bjarmason] asdf 15:07, 2004 Jul 23 (UTC) == :Category:Literature from Birmingham, England == User:Pigsonthewing persists in adding this article to the category "Literature from Birmingham, England". It has been pointed out on the user talk page that LOTR was not written in Birmingham, England and simply adding a note to the category saying that the cateogry is about "Literature written in, about, or influenced by Birmingham, England." is not acceptable. the name of the category should unambiguously indicate the contents of the category. Despite being the ONLY person insisting that the article belongs in said category, POTW says there is no consensus to remove LOTR from the category. Simply put, IMO this is a prime example of bad categorization. What connection there is with Birmingham is mentioned in the article and categorization should be reserved for making more widely applicable classifications. 14:35, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) :By the way, User:Pigsonthewing has a long history of edit conflicts, see also Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment, as well as Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct_disputes_archive/Jiang-Pigsonthewing. I am hoping this vote will prevent the need for more drastic dispute resolution. User:An�rion 14:43, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) :Let's put it to a vote. User:An�rion 14:37, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) ::I agree. There are various other near identical discussions along the same line. Notably: :Category:British painters, :Category:Birmingham, England generally, and an identical issue with The Two Towers. There are also fragments at User_talk:Pigsonthewing. Possibly this debate could be consolidated somehow? User:Pmcm 14:48, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) :Nodoby is claiming that LotR was written in Birmingham. User:Pigsonthewing 15:42, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) ::The issue is not where the LotR was written, but if the category belongs to the article at all. Consensus is not, as the vote clearly shows. User:An�rion 15:44, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) ::: Of course the category does not belong to the article: the article belongs to teh category. Nobody has shown - nor even attempted to show - otherwise. Consensus does not require votes; nor have thsoe voting suggested any form of compromise. User:Pigsonthewing 17:02, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) ::::Could you please define what "consensus" is in your opinion? --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 17:30, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC) ::::: You don't know? User:Pigsonthewing 20:26, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) :::Whether the category belongs to the article or the article to the category is petty semantics--everyone understands exactly what is meant. How esle would you propose to determine consensus besides voting? I think you are mistaken if you are saying that is not a method for determining consensus on Wikipedia. As for compromise--whatever connection there may be with Birmingham is mentioned in the article. There is no need for it to be in any Birmingham-related category. 17:35, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) :::: Votes do not determine consensus. HTH. User:Pigsonthewing 20:26, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) ::::Would you care to suggest any alternative method of reaching consensus? Since the voting on the issue currently stands at five to nil (not five to one, as might be expected), personally, I think it is a reasonable sample of opinion on this particular issue. Arguing about the exact phrasing of the voting options is at best pedantic when their intent is quite clear. :::::It's not five-to-one, because I understand the differece between voting and achieving consensus. User:Pigsonthewing 20:26, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) ::::In the spirit of olive branches; how about a list (or lists) of whatever you want, rather than a category, then link to those from Birmingham? Or an independent external ''[http://www.pigsonthewing.org.uk/the_world_according_to_me/ Birmingham; Centre of the World]'' web site, where you could exercise the quirky editorial whim you seem to possess, free from the regular annoyance of having anybody else dare to change or question anything you decide? ''(Only one of these suggestions is serious. I'm guessing most will be able to decide which.)'' User:Pmcm 17:56, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) ::::: How sad, that you feel the need to stoop to such depths. User:Pigsonthewing 20:26, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) :::::: Your insolent and uncooperative comments indicate that perhaps you really have no interest in consensus at all. FWIW, voting is indeed VERY COMMONLY used in Wikipedia to determine consensus. Whether or not that comports with your personal understanding of consensus is irrelevent. 20:48, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) :Worse the :Category:Literature from Birmingham, England is irrelevant and not useful. I'll add it at WP:CFD -- User:Solipsist 00:11, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) === Yes, the category should go in the article. === ''(i.e., The :Category:Birmingham, England or :Category:Literature from Birmingham, England categories should appear at the foot of the LotR article.)'' === No, The category does not belong here === ''(i.e., The :Category:Birmingham, England or :Category:Literature from Birmingham, England categories should not appear at the foot of the LotR article.)'' #User:An�rion 14:37, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) # 14:39, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) #User:Pmcm 14:48, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) #User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 14:54, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC) #User:Jallan 16:44, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) #User:DJ Clayworth 18:01, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) any more that it belongs in Literature of South Africa. #User:Gtrmp 22:00, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC) #User:Gracefool |User talk:gracefool 22:22, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC) #User:Solipsist 00:11, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) #User:Postdlf 01:17, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) #User:Moverton 07:06, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC) #User:Ausir 09:09, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) #User:Impi 20:46, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC) Good point Clayworth, Tolkien was said to be influenced by parts of SA (ie Hogsback) as well. #User:Maastrictian16:39, 26 Aug 2004 (EDT) #User:Jwrosenzweig 15:21, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC) If this is not a consensus, I don't know what it is... User:Ausir 20:39, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC) :Too true. Now are we all going to go over to Rip van Winkle and sort out the same mis-categorization there, or nix the category at WP:CFD? I've got a list of twenty similar cases. -- User:Solipsist 21:43, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC) ::I see no real purpose to the category -- I think literature about Birmingham would be reasonable, but not the too-expansive category that now exists. WP:CFD is a reasonable action, I think. User:Jwrosenzweig 15:21, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC) The poll should be closed, as the category in question was deleted per WP:CFD a while ago. --User:ContiE|User talk:ContiE 08:39, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC) ==Title derivation?== I question the opening; :The story's name is derived from the Dark Lord Sauron of Mordor, the primary villain of the work, who created the Ruling Ring and is thus the "Lord of the Rings" that the title refers to. However, he is but the servant of an earlier Dark Lord, Morgoth (Melkor), who is prominent in Tolkien's The Silmarillion. Is this an assumption or a fact? The "Lord of the Rings" I have always beleived to be the "one ring to rule them all" in other words, the object. I remain to be convinced otherwise.User:Dainamo 20:16, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC) :There is actually a quote in ''Fellowship''. Gandalf refers to "the Nine Servants of the Lord of the Rings" in Book II, "Many Meetings". I think it comes up again later, but I can't find the passage at the moment. User:Aranel_(\"User:Aranel/Sarah\")">User:Aranel|User:Aranel (\"User:Aranel/Sarah\") 20:25, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC) ::There's this: :: 'Hurray!' cried Pippin, springing up. 'Here is our noble cousin! Make way for the Lord of the Ring!' :: 'Hush!' said Gandalf from the shadows at the back of the porch. '... The Lord of the Ring is not Frodo, but the master of the Dark Tower of Mordor, ...' ::Oddly, it's "Ring", not "Ring''s''". ::User:Wwoods 22:33, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC) :::Thanks. That's what I was looking for. User:Aranel_(\"User:Aranel/Sarah\")">User:Aranel|User:Aranel (\"User:Aranel/Sarah\") 22:52, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC) :There's this from "The Council of Elrond", in the discussion about sending the ring to Tom Bombadil: :

'But in any case,' said Glorfindel, 'to send the Ring to him would only postpone the day of evil. He is far away. We could not now take it back to him, unguessed, unmarked by any spy. And even if we could, soon or late the Lord of the Rings would learn of its hiding place and would bend all his power towards it. Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone?'

:User:Jallan 23:08, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC) :"The Lord of the Rings" could be applied to two entities, Sauron, creator and forger of the One Ring, and the One Ring itself, which was forged to control all of the other Rings of Power. Sauron forged the One Ring in secret to create a means to control the other Rings of Power, and to thus dominate the races who used their Rings. The One Ring could influece all of the other Rings, thus the moiniker 'the Lord of the Rings'. However, it is more commonly applied in reference to Sauron, the creator of the One Ring and the only one who could control the Ring fully. The people who held the Ring asides from Sauron, ie. Isildur, Deagol, Smeagol, Bilbo Baggins, Frodo Baggins, and Samwise Gamgee, were more or less subject to the Rings desires, and could only resist its temptations to the best of their abilities. So while Sauron was the Lord of the Ring, the One Ring, that is, through the One Ring Sauron could also control all of the Rings of Power, thus enabling the Book to refer to him as "the Lord of the Rings' :: ''The Return of the King, Chpt. IX, ''The Grey Havens''''. :: Here Bilbo's hand ended and Frodo had written: :: THE DOWNFALL OF THE LORD OF THE RINGS AND THE RETURN OF THE KING Arguably this refers to the defeat of Sauron, not the unmaking of the One Ring. Thus: :: Lord of the Ring- Sauron, the one who could control the One Ring. :: Lord of the Rings- the One ring, with it power over the Rings of Power, or Sauron, who by proxy could contol the Rings of Power throught the One Ring. User:Raivein 02:13, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC) == "Criticism"? == I don't want to remove it outright, but this section is awfully one-sided:

The book has been accused by many for containing racistic and elitistic elements. The main concept is the Free Peoples (who can be identified as Europeans) against the slaves of Sauron who are Easterlings and Southrons. Also, many speculate that the Orcs represent blacks or Mongols having some of their distinct features.

There is no mention whatsoever of counters to this argument (or of the notion of whether we should impose our modern sensibilities on someone who wrote in the 1940s). Does anyone know of a good source for fair discussion of the topic? (Should this even go in this articles?) User:Aranel_(\"User:Aranel/Sarah\")">User:Aranel|User:Aranel (\"User:Aranel/Sarah\") 18:25, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC) == Answer to Criticism == I removed the "Answer to Criticism" because the information provided by 130.64.153.13 was better, and because this paragraph looks rather speculative and inaccurate (and not a very good defence is any case). (Isn't Melkor a better fit for the Devil? Doesn't Tolkien dislike allegory? Where does it say Easterlings are athiests? etc.) :(Answer to criticism) John Ronald Reuel Tolkien was a Catholic which would make a difference Sauron is portrayed as the Devil, Satan, the orcs would not be blacks but demons, and the Easterlings and Southrons are atheists or nonbelievers those who aren't of the elect, the chosen people of God who will get saved are the heroes. The heroes defend what they believe, the villains fight against it. The Ring would be the temptations of the world, and As seen in the book, Frodo is tempted to put it on, be in the world. User:Eric119 22:50, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) :I feel like we could probably do better with this entire section (perhaps making it a separate article), but I'm not up to the amount of work it would require at the moment. -User:Aranel_(\"Sarah\")">User:Aranel|User:Aranel (\"Sarah\") 23:11, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) == An edit == Can someone verify the legitimacy of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Lord_of_the_Rings&diff=next&oldid=9065682 this edit]? The summary is "typo" which seems suspicious given the change. User:Eric119 05:37, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC) :Principal photography lasted for over fourteen months (from 11 October 1999 to 22 December 2000; [http://www.theonering.net/movie/faq/page07.html#schedule], [http://www.factmonster.com/spot/lotr-pj.html]). Peter Jackson says (in the appendices of the RotK DVD, extended edition) that the last fill-in shot for the DVD was filmed early in 2004, so in that sense the edit isn't completely wrong. User:Avenue 12:02, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC) == It's Not an Allegory == JRR Tolkien hated allegory and in Humphrey Carpenter's biography he quoted him saying just that. Tolkien's writing stems from his forbidden love with Edith Bratt early in his life. Through this turmoil he came up with the first basic ideas for his mythos. --User:Sveden 20:24, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC) Tolkien's writing "stems" from many things indeed! To say it's one thing or another is extremely over-simplistic. It may or may not be considered an allegory. However, Tolkien stated categorically in his foreword and in his letters that he didn't want it considered so. "Many confuse �applicability� with �allegory�" User:Eriathwen 22:38, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC) == Negative Criticism? == Has there been any positive criticism? :-) :Yes. This needs a lot more stuff about the initial reaction to the book, and how they became a college cult, and the random pop culture references to it could do with splitting out. (and what should we do with the random refernece to Warwickshire? The scenery of the shire was certainly inspired by that - but over half the book is set elsehwere!) It reads more like a collection of trivia than an article at the moment. User:Morwen - User_talk:Morwen 09:30, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC) There's more on Wikipedia written about Lord of the Rings cumulatively then Abraham Lincoln or the French Revolution. Tsk tsk I say, tsk tsk. User:Orangetuesday 05:25, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC) :It matters more to the editors of Wikipedia, evidently. User:Eriathwen 12:27, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC) == Musical? == Reuters today said that there will be a musical version opening in Toronto and then moving to London. Can anyone verify this and add it in? User:Eriathwen 18:06, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC) :Yup, that's definitely true. It'll be at the Princess of Wales theater in Toronto, opening I think sometime next fall, although I'm really not sure as to that. But as to the existance of the musical: yes, I know for a fact that it exists. There are ads all over Toronto! User:Oracleoftruth 23:10, May 27, 2005 (UTC) :It�s opening in Toronto next February. I think London is getting its own production eight months later and New York is getting one eight months after that. They are really going all out for it, I�ve read that the Toronto version will the most expensive play ever made anywhere. If no one else adds the musical to the article, I will tomorow. -User:Arctic.gnome 02:37, 30 May 2005 (UTC) == what I think of the film == The Lord of the rings films I feel even though they don't follow as close as I would like the story line of the books are an incredible achievment and they show just how far movie and computer graphics have come since the starting days of film. The city if Minas Tirith was the most amazing graphics of the whole fim I feel. Thomas == Article size == This article is about 38 KB long, which would not usually be considered to be extremely long. However, it does seem that this article could do with a little summarizing and splitting; as of this writing, no sections have main articles and most of them go extremely in-depth. Where should I start? User:Wikiacc 21:14, May 18, 2005 (UTC) == Lord of the Rings Wikicity == Just to advertise LOTR WIKICITY which is being set up right now. Anyone who is interested in writing Middle-Earth articles head over there now! (My user page is under the name of Darth Mantus) --User:81.77.190.25 17:30, 23 May 2005 (UTC) == Gandalf Computer == I remember an 8 bit microcomputer kit from the 1970s that was sold by "Gandalf Computer," a California (Silicon Valley?) company. Only saw a few of these in the days before the Apple ][ became popular. Googling "Gandalf Computer" didn't help. Anyone know of it? == Trilogy == The book is sometimes wrongly described as a trilogy. The three films are also often described this way. I think it is wrong (and will remove it in the article), but is it possible for the films to be a trilogy even if the book is not? Does, for example, the second film constitute a "complete" story? User:J�rgen 21:51, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) *Sure, it's possible. I don't see any problem with describing the ''movies'' as a trilogy. User:Eric119 23:31, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Lord of the rings

#REDIRECT The Lord of the Rings

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