Rabbi

:''See Semicha for article about "ordination" of rabbis''. Rabbi (Hebrew language רִבִּי ''ribbī''; modern Ashkenazi and Israeli רַבִּי ''rabbī'') in Judaism, means teacher, or more literally "great one". The word "Rabbi" is derived from the Hebrew root-word ''RaV'', which in biblical Hebrew means "great" or "distinguished,". In the ancient Judean schools the sages were addressed as רִבִּי (''Ribbi'' or ''Rebbi'') — in recent centuries being re-vocalized to ''Rabbi'' ("my master"). This term of respectful address gradually came to be used as a title, the pronominal suffix "i" ("my") losing its significance with the frequent use of the term. The role of rabbis within Jewish communities has been and continues to be multifaceted. In ancient times, ''Rabbi'' was a Hebrew term used as a title for those who were distinguished for learning, who were the authoritative teachers of the Law, or who were the appointed religious leaders of their community. Today rabbis are still responsible for teaching on matters of Judaism in general and Halakha in particular; and are qualified to determine the applicability of Jewish law. Rabbis often work as religious leaders. Synagogue rabbis typically speak on behalf of their communities on a wide range of issues, offer spiritual leadership for their congregation, and are usually involved in Jewish lifecycle events. Nevertheless, rabbis do not play any essential role in Jewish liturgy and ritual, and Jewish congregations can persist indefinitely without a rabbi assigned to them. Some religious leaders such as Hasidic rebbes and Talmudic rosh yeshivas may not even have a formal semicha. In any event, the title is a credential, not a particular job. == History == ===Moses and Joshua: The first "rabbis"=== By tradition Moses was the first rabbi of the Children of Israel. To this day he is known to most Jews as ''Moshe Rabbeinu'' ("Moses our Teacher"). Moses is also considered the greatest prophet in the Hebrew Bible. Moses passed his leadership on to Joshua as commanded by God in the Book of Numbers, where the subject of ''semicha'' ("laying [of hands]" or "ordination") is first mentioned in the Torah in Book of Numbers 27:15-23 [http://bible.ort.org/books/pentd2.asp?ACTION=displaypage&BOOK=4&CHAPTER=27] and Deuteronomy 34:9 [http://bible.ort.org/books/pentd2.asp?ACTION=displaypage&BOOK=5&CHAPTER=34]. By Jewish tradition, the authority granted by semicha has been passed from rabbi to rabbi from Moses to the present day. ===Era of the Tanakh=== The governments of the kingdoms of Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah were based on a system of Jewish kings, prophets, the legal authority of the court of the Sanhedrin and the ritual authority of Kohen. Members of the Sanhedrin all had to have awarded their ''semicha'' ("ordination" derived in an uninterrupted line of transmission from Moses) yet they were more frequently referred to as judges (''dayanim'') akin to the ''Shoftim'' or "Judges" as in the Book of Judges, rather than rabbis. All of the above personalities would have been expected and assumed to be steeped in the wisdom of the Torah and the 613 mitzvot which would have made them "rabbis" to our way of thinking. This is illustrated by an important two thousand year old teaching in Ethics of the Fathers (''Pirkei Avot'') of the Mishnah which cites King David by saying: :"He who learns from his fellowman a single chapter, a single halakha, a single verse, a single Torah statement, or even a single letter, must treat him with honor. For so we find with David King of Israel, who learned nothing from Ahitophel except two things, yet called him his teacher (in Hebrew ''rabbo'' -- meaning his "rabbi"), his guide, his intimate, as it is said: 'You are a man of my measure, my guide, my intimate' (Psalms 55:14). One can derive from this the following: If David King of Israel who learned nothing from Ahitophel except for two things, called him his teacher (i.e. ''rabbo'' -- his "rabbi"), his guide, his intimate, one who learns from his fellowman a single chapter, a single halakha, a single verse, a single statement, or even a single letter, how much more must he treat him with honor. And honor is due only for Torah, as it is said: 'The wise shall inherit honor' (Book of Proverbs 3:35), 'and the perfect shall inherit good' (Proverbs 28:10). And only Torah is truly good, as it is said: 'I have given you a good teaching, do not forsake My Torah' (Psalms 128:2)." (''Ethics of the Fathers'' 6:3) With the destruction of the two Temple in Jerusalem, the end of the Jewish monarchy, and the decline of the dual instititutions of prophets and the priesthood, the focus of scholarly and spiritual leadership within the Jewish people shifted to the sages of the ''Anshe Knesset HaGedolah'' ("Men of the Great Assembly"). This assembly was composed by the earliest "rabbis" as we know them for the last two thousand years, in large part because they began the formulation and explication of what became known as Judaism's ''Torah SheBe'al Peh'' ("Oral law#Oral law in Judaism"). This was eventually encoded and codified within the Mishnah and Talmud and subsequent rabbinical scholarship, producing what is known as "Rabbinical Judaism". ==Sages as rabbis== The rabbi is not an occupation found in the Torah (i.e the Pentateuch) as such; the first time this word is mentioned is in the Mishnah. The more ancient generations had no such titles as ''Rabban'', ''Rabbi'', or ''Rab'' , for either the Babylonian sages or the sages in Israel. This is evident from the fact that Hillel I, who came from Babylon, did not have the title ''Rabban'' prefixed to his name. Of the Nevi'im, also, who were very eminent, it is simply said, "Haggai the prophet" etc., "Ezra did not come up from Babylon" etc., the title ''Rabban'' not being used. Indeed, this title is not met with earlier than the time of the patriarchate. This title was first used of Rabban Gamaliel the elder, Rabban Simeon his son, and Rabban Johanan ben Zakkai, all of whom were patriarchs or presidents of the Sanhedrin. The title ''Rabbi'' too, came into vogue among those who received the laying on of hands at this period, as, for instance, Rabbi Zadok, Rabbi Eliezer ben Jacob, and others, and dates from the time of the disciples of Rabban Johanan ben Zakkai downward. Now the order of these titles is as follows: ''Rabbi'' is greater than ''Rab''; ''Rabban'' again, is greater than ''Rabbi''; while the simple name is greater than ''Rabban''. Besides the presidents of the Sanhedrin no one is called ''Rabban''. The title "Rabbi" was borne by the sages of ancient Israel, who were ordained by the Sanhedrin in accordance with the custom handed down by the elders. They were titled ''Rabbi'' and received authority to judge penal cases. ''Rab'' was the title of the Babylonian sages who received their ordination in colleges. The basic form of the rabbi developed in the Pharisees and Talmudic era. == The role of the rabbi in the last 200 years == In 19th century Germany and the United States, the duties of the rabbi became increasingly influenced by the duties of the Clergy. Sermons, pastoral counseling, representing the community to the outside, all increased in importance. Non-Orthodox rabbis, on a day-to-day business basis, now spend more time on these traditionally non-rabbinic functions than they do teaching, or answering questions on Jewish law and philosophy. Within the Modern Orthodox community, rabbis still mainly deal with teaching and questions of Jewish law, but are increasingly dealing with these same pastoral functions. Orthodox Judaism's National Council of Young Israel and the Modern Orthodox Judaism's Rabbinical Council of America have set up supplemental pastoral training programs for their rabbis. Traditionally, rabbis have never been an intermediary between God and man. This idea was traditionally considered outside the bounds of Jewish theology. == Women and the rabbinical credential == Jewish tradition and law does not presume that women have more or less of an aptitude or moral standing required of rabbis. However, it has been the longstanding practice that only men become rabbis. This practice is continued to this day within the Orthodox community but has been revised within non-Orthodox organizations, including the Reform, Reconstructionist, and Conservative movements, where women are routinely granted semicha on an equal basis with men. The issue of allowing women to become rabbis is not under active debate within the Orthodox community, though there is widespread agreement that women may often be consulted on matters of Jewish religious law. There are reports that a small number of Orthodox yeshivas have unofficially granted semicha to women, but the prevailing consensus among Orthodox leaders and a small number of Conservative communities is that it is not appropriate for women to become rabbis. The idea that women could eventually be ordained as rabbis sparks widespread opposition among the Orthodox rabbinate. Norman Lamm, one of the leaders of Modern Orthodoxy and Rosh Yeshiva of the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary, totally opposes giving semicha to women. "It shakes the boundaries of tradition, and I would never allow it." (Helmreich, 1997) Writing in an article in the ''Jewish Observer'', Moshe Y'chiail Friedman states that Orthodox Judaism prohibits women from being given semicha and serving as rabbis. He holds that the trend towards this goal is driven by sociology, and not halakha ("Jewish law".) On the other hand, several efforts are underway within Orthodox communities to include qualified women in activities traditionally limited to rabbis: *Historically, the first woman ordained and working as a rabbi was Regina Jonas, active in the first half of the 20th century in Germany and through the Holocaust. *In the United States, Modern Orthodox rabbis Avi Weiss and Saul Berman created an advanced educational institute for women called Torat Miriam. They do not claim that the graduates of this institute are rabbis, but that the long term goal is to have women "work on a professional level in the synagogue," he said. (Helmreich, 1997) *Rabbi Aryeh Strikovski (Mahanayim Yeshiva and Pardes Institute) worked in the 1990s with Rabbi Avraham Shapira (then a co-Chief rabbi of Israel) to initiate the program for training Orthodox women as halakhic ''Toanot'' ("advocates") in beth din. They have since trained nearly seventy women. Strikovski states that "The knowledge one requires to become a court advocate is more than a regular ordination, and now to pass certification is much more difficult than to get ordination." The use of Toanot is not restricted to any one segment of Orthodoxy; In Israel they have worked with Haredi and Modern Orthodox Jews. *In Israel a growing number of Orthodox women are being trained as ''yoatzot halachah'', who serve many in the Israeli Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) community. *Orthodox women may study the laws of family purity at the same level of detail that Orthodox males do at Nishmat, the Jerusalem Center for Advanced Jewish Study for Women. The purpose is for them to be able to act as halakhic advisors for other women, a role that traditionally was limited to male rabbis. This course of study is overseen by Rabbi Yaakov Varhaftig. *Rahel Berkovits, an Orthodox Talmud teacher at Jerusalem's Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies, states that as a result of such changes in Haredi and Modern Orthodox Judaism, "Orthodox women found and oversee prayer communities, argue cases in rabbinic courts, advise on halachic issues, and dominate in social work activities that are all very associated with the role a rabbi performs, even though these women do not have the official title of rabbi." ==Becoming a rabbi== Traditionally, a man obtains ''semicha'' ("rabbinic ordination") after the completion of an arduous learning program in the codes of halakha and responsa. The most general form of ''semicha'' is ''Yorei yorei'' ("he shall teach"). Most Orthodox rabbis hold this qualification; they are sometimes called a ''moreh hora'ah'' ("a teacher of lessons"). A more advanced form of ''semicha'' is ''Yadin yadin'' ("he shall judge"). This enables the recipient to adjudicate cases of monetary law, amongst other responsibilities. He is addressed as a ''dayan'' ("judge"). Few rabbis earn this ordination. Although not strictly necessary, many Orthodox rabbis hold that a ''beth din'' (court of Jewish law) should be made up of ''dayanim''. ===Orthodox Judaism=== An Orthodox semicha requires the successful completion of a rigorous program encompassing Jewish law and responsa in keeping with longstanding tradition. Orthodox rabbinical students work to gain knowledge in Talmud, Rishonim and Acharonim (early and late medieval commentators) and Halakha. They study sections of the Shulkhan Arukh (codified Jewish law) and its main commentaries that pertain to daily-life questions (such as the laws of keeping kosher, Shabbat, and the laws of sex and Niddah. Orthodox rabbis typically study at yeshivas, which are dedicated religious schools. Modern Orthodox Judaism rabbinical students such as at Yeshiva University study some elements of modern theology or philosophy, as well as the classical rabbinic works on such subjects. The entrance requirements for an Orthodox yeshiva include a strong background within Jewish law, liturgy, Talmudic study, and attendant languages (e.g., Hebrew language, Aramaic language and in some cases Yiddish language). Since rabbinical studies typically flow from other yeshiva studies, those who seek a semicha are typically not required to have completed a university education. ===Conservative and Masorti Judaism=== Conservative Judaism holds that one may obtain rabbinic ordination after the completion of a rigorous program in the codes of Jewish law and responsa in keeping with Jewish tradition. It adds to these requirements by adding the study of: the Hebrew Bible, Mishna and Talmud, the Midrash literature, Jewish ethics and lore, the codes of Jewish law, the Conservative responsa literature, both traditional and modern Jewish works on theology and philosophy. Conservative Judaism has less stringent study requirements for Talmud and responsa study compared to Orthodoxy but adds following subjects as requirements for rabbinic ordination: pastoral care and psychology, the historical development of Judaism; and academic biblical criticism. Entrance requirements to a Conservative rabbinical study include a strong background within Jewish law and liturgy, knowledge of Hebrew, familiarity with rabbinic literature, Talmud, etc., and the completion of an undergraduate university degree. Rabbinical students usually earn a secular degree (e.g., Master of Hebrew Letters) upon graduation. Conservative seminaries are now ordaining female rabbis and training female cantors. There are still traditional conservative congregations (many found in Ontario, Canada) that resist this movement. ===Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism=== Reconstructionist Judaism and Reform Judaism do not maintain the traditional requirements for study. In the four years of study it takes to become a Reform or Reconstructionist rabbi, they only learn the amount of Jewish law, Talmud, and responsa that Orthodox rabbis generally learn within their first year. Emphasis is placed not on Jewish law, but rather on sociology, cultural studies, and modern Jewish philosophy. The Reform or Reconstructionist rabbinical seminaries hold that one must first earn a bachelor's degree before entering the rabbinate. In addition studies are mandated in pastoral care and psychology, the historical development of Judaism; and academic biblical criticism. Both men and women may be rabbis or cantors. ==Acceptance of who is a rabbi== Orthodox Judaism generally rejects the validity of non-Orthodox rabbis. Some within Modern Orthodoxy are willing to accept that non-Orthodox rabbis have legitimacy (e.g. Norman Lamm), although to what extent is argued. All non-Orthodox forms of Judaism generally accept the legitimacy of each other's rabbis, as well as accept the legitimacy of Orthodox rabbis. ==Rabbinic seminaries unrelated to the major Jewish denominations== There are several possibilities for receiving rabbinic ordination in addition to seminaries maintained by the large Jewish denominations. These include seminaries maintained by smaller denominational movements, and nondenominational (also called "transdenominational" or "postdenominational") Jewish seminaries. *The Union for Traditional Judaism (UTJ), an offshoot of the right-wing of Conservative Judaism and the left-wing of Orthodoxy, has a seminary in New Jersey; the seminary is accepted by all non-Orthodox rabbis as a valid, traditional rabbinical seminary. Orthodox Jews are divided on the legitimacy of this seminary, as they usually view all non-Orthodox seminaries as heretical; this seminary, however, bridges Conservative and Orthodox Judaism, and some Orthodox synagogues have hired UTJ rabbis. *The Jewish Renewal movement has an ordination program, ALEPH, but no central campus. The ordination of rabbis by this program is highly controversial. Many rabbis with Conservative and Reform Judaism, and some within Reconstructionist Judaism, reject this program as insufficiently rigorous. They advocate that their rabbis not be accepted in professional rabbinic organizations. The Rabbinical Assembly, the body of Conservative rabbis, rejects the validity of this program. All Orthodox groups reject the validity of this organization. *The Academy for Jewish Religion, in New York City, has, since 1956, been a rabbinic (and cantorial) seminary not affiliated with any denomination or movement. Hebrew College, near Boston, includes a similarly unaffiliated rabbinic school, opened in the Fall of 2003. These seminaries are accepted by all non-Orthodox rabbis as valid rabbinical seminaries. Orthodox Jews are divided on the legitimacy of these seminaries; most consider their ordinations invalid. * Shema Yisrael Torah Network is an organization that helps Jews from all over the world learn Halacha from the most basic levels up until rabbinical ''smicha'' exams that are performed by the Chief Rabbinical office in Jerusalem, Israel ==Becoming a rabbi: To have or not to have ordination== There is no formal requirement to have ''semicha'' in order to be known as a "rabbi". Haredi Judaism and Hasidic Judaism hold that becoming a rabbi in and of itself is not important. Rather, they encourage their students and disciples within the yeshivas they control to become great scholars, so that the students will have an innate knowledge of the Talmud, Halakha, the Tanakh and of course the Torah, combined with a commitment to the highest standards of the Shulkhan Arukh ("The Code of Jewish Law") that should be the basis and guide for all Jewish life from cradle to grave. ==See also== *List of rabbis *Posek *Rosh yeshiva *Rebbe *Rabbinic literature *Synagogue *Mashgiach *Beth din *Yeshiva *Hazzan *Clergy ==References== ===General=== * ''Rabbi'', article in the ''Encyclopedia Judaica'', Keter Publishing ===Women in Orthodoxy=== * Debra Nussbau, Cohen, ''Jewish tradition vs. the modern-day female'', March 17, 2000, Jewish Telegraphic Agency * Lauren Gelfond Feldinger, ''The Next Feminist Revolution'', The Jerusalem Post, March 17, 2005 * Moshe Y'chiail Freidman, ''Women in the Rabbinate,'' Jewish Observer, 17:8, 1984, 28-29. * Laurie Goodstein, ''Causing a Stir, 2 Synagogues Hire Women to Aid Rabbis'', February 6, 1998, New York Times * Jeff Helmreich, ''Orthodox women moving toward religious leadership'', Friday June 6, 1997, Long Island Jewish World * Marilyn Henry, ''Orthodox women crossing threshold into synagogue'', Jerusalem Post Service, May 15, 1998 *Jonathan Mark, ''Women Take Giant Step In Orthodox Community: Prominent Manhattan shul hires �congregational intern� for wide-ranging spiritual duties'', The Jewish Week Dec. 19, 1997 * Emanuel Rackman, ''(Women as Rabbis) Suggestions for Alternatives,'' Judaism , Vol.33,No.1, 1990, p.66-69. ==External links== * [http://www.jofa.org/social.php/participatio/rabbis Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance resource page on Women's leadership roles in Orthodox Judaism] Rabbis Judaism Religious leaders Titles

Rabbi

==Definitions== "While rabbis are generally thought of as clergy, equivalent to priests or ministers in Christian denominations, in fact the role is quite different." -- On the other hand, I believe it would be accurate to say that the role of rabbi and (Muslim) imam are similar. Yes? No? Thanks for input. Orthodox smicha is a test in halacha. That is all. There is no requirement that it include Tanach, Jewish philosophy, Talmud, or anything else. It's just shabbat, nida, and issur ve-heter (the three components of the test). User:Danny (been there, done that) :The test itself may not include Talmud, but the course of study does include huge amounts of Mishnah, Talmud, and responsa, right? I wasn't referring to the final test itself, but rather to the program of study. Do most Orthodox synagogues ''not'' require the study of classic rabbinic philosophical works? I would be willing to believe this, but I would find it ironic and Reform and Conservative rabbis seem to have a more demanding array of subjects to study than Orthodox Jews. I know that at the Jewish Theological Seminary, the Conservative movement's main rabbinic seminary, there is a wide array of Judaica subjects that all rabbinic students there must master. I was under the impression that this was true also at Yeshiva University (although YU may not be representative of most Yeshivas in the last 500 years!) User:RK YU is ''not'' representative. I've known plenty of people with "smicha" who can't learn a page of Talmud (blatt gemara). I also have a cousin going for smicha now, who is excited by his program because it requires them to read all of Tanach. In terms of a well-rounded Judaic studies program, JTS is certainly far ahead of most yeshivot (though this may come at the expense of halachah, which is the core/sole requirement Orthodox smichas. User:Danny ==Rav== A topic that deserves a mention on this page is the word "Rav". In Israel especially one hears all the time of "Rav so-and-so" and much less frequently of "Rabbi so-and-so". I think the words are more or less interchangable but is that true everywhere? -- User:Zero0000 15:55, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC) :Rav is generally used for somebody who is an expert in Jewish law, while Rabbi generally implies a lesser degree of expertise in Jewish law. It is also used generally for teachers of Jewish religious subjects who would not ever be called a Rav. User:Ezra Wax 04:42, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC) ==Semicha== I take issue with the term 'laying on of hands' as Semicha is more than laying on of hands. The giver of Semicha, up till the time of the talmud when true semicha was no longer able to be given, placed his full weight on the recipient. User:Ezra Wax 04:42, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC) ==Delete section?== Should we delete the section on becoming a rabbi, and just give a link to the semicha article? The ''semicha'' article covers everything on this topic. User:RK 20:33, Aug 24, 2004 (UTC) :No, because ''semicha'' only deals with the orthodox requirements. I would personally favour keeping the section here, but linking clearly to the semicha page. User:Jfdwolff | User_talk:Jfdwolff 20:46, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC) :Oh, I hadn't seen what you did to semicha. I personally don't really care if you delete the paragraph. Just say something like: "''See main article: semicha''" and then a very brief summary of that article. User:Jfdwolff | User_talk:Jfdwolff 21:01, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC) == Section just added == I've removed a section just added to the article, as follows:

Constitute a sort of nobility of the Jews, and it is the first object of each parent that his sons shall, if possible, attain it. When, therefore, a boy displays a peculiarly acute mind and studious habits, he is placed before the twelve folio volumes of the Talmud, and its legion of commentaries and epitomes, which he is made to pore over with an intenseness which engrosses his faculties entirely, and often leaves him in mind, and occasionally in body, fit for nothing else; and so vigilant and jealous a discipline is exercised so to fence him round as to secure his being exclusively Talmudical, and destitute of every other learning and knowledge whatever, that one individual has lately met with three young men, educated as rabbis, who were born and lived to manhood in the middle of Poland, and yet knew not one word of its language. To speak Polish on the Sabbath is to profane it�so say the orthodox Polish Jews. If at the age of fourteen or fifteen years, or still earlier, (for the Jew ceases to be a minor when thirteen years old,) this Talmudical student realizes the hopes of his childhood, he becomes an object of research among the wealthy Jews, who are anxious that their daughters shall attain the honour of becoming the brides of these embryo santons; and often, when he is thus young, and his bride still younger, the marriage is completed.

It appears to be some sort of outside view from 1828;[http://www.blackmask.com/thatway/books156c/miroc11tweig.htm] it hardly seems relevant now. User:Jayjg^{User_talk:Jayjg} 20:08, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) ---- I added stuff yesterday and now its gone and there isn't even any trace in the history! What's up? :Please try again, then report it at the WP:VP. User:Jfdwolff | User_talk:Jfdwolff 12:56, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC) ==Should we merge this with the semicha article?== I re-read this article and the semicha article. Neither are very long. It looks to me like we could merge them. Or perhaps move some of the information from their to here. Does anyone think that this would be a good idea, or should we continue to keep them separate. User:RK 02:40, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC) *I vote to keep them separate because each has its own history and will have much material added to it eventually. Classical ''semicha'' from the days of Moses is something unique. Biblical ''semicha'' has been discontinued. Today's ''semichas'' are "stop-gap qualifications" that are mostly powerless documents. Many Talmudic scholars, Rosh yeshivas and Halakha, called and known as rabbis do NOT have, nor do they aspire to obtain and hold ''semicha'' at all. There is in fact a great prejudice against conventional "semichas" in the Haredi Judaism world and many Haredi rabbis and rebbes do NOT have a formal "semicha" (they think today's "semichas" are a big joke!) Basically it is NOT necessary to have "semicha" in order to be a "rabbi". Thus the two subjects and the articles must remain apart. User:IZAK 04:54, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC) :I agree with IZAK, they are separate topics. User:Jayjg^{User_talk:Jayjg} 17:24, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC) :Agree with IZAK and Jay: Semicha is in fact not exclusively bound to the question of who is a rabbi/ḥakham, but also, ''e.g.'', to procedures for sacrifice in the Temple in Jerusalem. I think each article should be expanded, rather than being merged with the other. -- User:Olve 19:32, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC) Ok. The article on Semicha currently, then, discusses at least two separate topics. It discusses procedures for sacrifice, and the ancient form of rabbinic semicha that we no longer have. Yet it also discussed modern day rabbinical ordination in Orthodox and non-Orthodox Judaism; that seems more appropriate for this article. What about moving this latter section on modern day rabbis (in ''Semicha'') to this ''Rabbi'' article. User:RK 20:19, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC) *RK: Please take note that Semicha in sacrifices is now an independent seperate article by the way, which should further clarfy things. Again, forget about "merging" any parts of the Rabbi article with the Semicha more than you have to. In any case, both the Semicha article and the Rabbi article do cross-reference each other on the points you mention. Read the articles carefully again and you will see that what you propose is not needed and would merely be redundant and confusing (and may appear to run towards some sort of anti-Haredi POV conclusions perhaps.)User:IZAK 05:51, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::Please stop your paranoid complaints. No one is attacking Haredi Jews. We are talking about which paragraphs of an article to merge. User:RK *RK:To call someone "paranoid" is not nice, neither on Wikipedia nor anywhere else. I know we were talking about "paragraphs of an article", but it was the ''contents'' of those paragraphs that were under discussion. And we obviously don't just "talk about paragraphs" on Wikipedia it's ALWAYS wedded to contents. ''Gevalt!'' User:IZAK 04:45, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) ==Izak's historical revisionism== In an edit line to the article, Izak writes: :Revert to last version by Everyking because RK has inserted one-side argumenst to bolster Conservative Judaism POV of what \"is\" and \"is not\" happening in the world of Orthodox Judaism) Izak, please stop your ad homenim attacks against me! ''The facts stated in my edit of the article are true, and they are sourced and references.'' Please read the articles in the references section. (They have nothing to do with Conservative Judaism!) You have no right to use this encyclopedia to spew anger at your fellow Orthodox Jews. For those non-Jews following this discussion, please be aware that in much of Orthodox Judaism it is considered a gross insult to label someone "Conservative", "reform", or "non-Orthodox". It fact, it can lead to excommunication, at least in theory. ''Izak's use of these terms against those he dislikes is a religious personal attack, which is a clear violation of Wikipedia policy.'' Izak has serious differences with Orthodox Jews who have views that differ from his own. Fine, but so what? Is he claiming that there are Orthodox authorities who view these many changes within Orthodoxy as heretical and/or wrong? Then he must follow Wikipedia official policy of citing sources, and presenting them in accord with our NPOV policy. Yet instead of citing sources and following NPOV, he merely inserts polemics. That is not good encyclopedia writing. User:RK In the end, Izak's claims are false. While he pretends that the changes in the role of women within Orthodoxy is "Conservative" and "Modern Orthodox", in fact this change is occuring within many segements of Orthodox Judaism, including those to the theological right of "Modern Orthodoxy". For instance, the rabbinic court advocates are accepted as valid by Haredi Jews in Israel - i.e. by "Ultra-Orthodox Jews". One is astonished to learn that in Iaak's view, these "ultra-Orthodox Jews" are pushing a non-Orthodox agenda. What is espeically bizarre is the way that Izak is attacking things that I never wrote. For some odd reason he sees sentences in the article claiming that Orthodox Judaism is becoming the same as non-Orthodox Judaism in regards to ordainding women as rabbis. ''Yet no such sentiments exist in this article.'' In fact, I wrote the exact opposite of what Izak imagines is in the article: :Two Israeli Orthodox women are known to have been ordained as rabbis by Orthodox male rabbis, and they have some small amount of support from male peers. ''However, the overwhelming majority of Orthodox rabbis and laypeople do not view these ordinations as valid.'' So why is Izak so angry? Apparently, the mere statement of fact is not enough. He wants the article to include a polemic against all Orthodox Jews who dare disgaree with him, but that is just not right. User:RK 02:03, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC) ===Stop the smokescreen/s=== RK for heaven's sake man, get a grip on yourself, look at your own words against me and I daresay that it constitutes a far-reaching personal attack (and remember "two wrongs don't make a right".) Your own long record of personal attacks against Wikipedia users is horrendous, others have even tracked it, see User:MyRedDice/Wikipedians attacked by RK. Now, to get back to the point of the REAL issues here...First of all, you keep mentioning two mysterious females that were "ordained" as "Orthodox" rabbis, well who the heck are they if you think they are such Earth-shattering "samples" of a new breed of "Orthodox" rabbis? Secondly, to write the obvious does not need a "citation", such as when we say point blank THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FEMALE RABBI IN ORTHODOX JUDAISM. That is a truism that is Self-evidence and that is ''as clear as daylight'' and that everybody knows is obvious (of course, you could fool someone who knows little or zero about this subject by claiming your "citations" are impressive, but they are not) because NOT A SINGLE LEADING ORTHODOX RABBINIC AUTHORITY HAS EVER SAID THAT THERE MUST BE, OR SHOULD BE, LADY RABBIS, in fact they are basically universally opposed to even the ''thought'' of the mention of the subject, (everybody who knows Orthodox Judaism well knows this, except you it seems.) It would be like requiring a citation that the "sun shines in the day" and "the moon is in the night sky". Thirdly, female ''to'anot'' are not and will not ever be Orthodox "rabbis", even if they would have IQs of 150, could recite the Talmud backwards, and knew the Shulkhan Arukh by heart. Furthermore, to call them "clergy" does NOT help you any, as the word "clergy" is alien to Judaism (it's better suited for Christians who know what it means). So it's not a case of knowledge, as Jewish women, not just rabbis' wives, have always valued Torah knowledge and have learnt it themslves and encouraged their sons to become Torah scholars and their well-versed daughters to study it and to marry Torah learning husbands. This has always been true in Jewish history. Finally, who gives you the right to decide what is the norm in the world of Orthodox Judaism? This is an open-ended discussion and you have no right to assert its direction by pretending to represent some sort of "moral high ground". (Note: Due to the Passsover season now almost upon us, let us wait and see what some other well-learned contributors such as User:Jayjg and User:Jfdwolff, who DO know something about this subject, have to say when they get around to it.) Thank you. User:IZAK 07:35, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC) :Izak, you are hysterical, and need to take a break. You are bizarrely attacking ''statements that I simply never made''. Also, I find it sad that you imagine that I personally have anything to do with any of this. You say "who gives you the right to decide what is the norm in the world of Orthodox Judaism." Um, I wasn't quoted in any of these articles! (Article, by the way, that I note you censored, in clear violation of Wikipedia policy.) Please read these articles. None of the Orthodox rabbi cited within is me! Your anger at many of your fellow Orthodox Jews is your right, but don't attack the messenger. We may not censor this article to only allow POVs that you agree with. In any case, in accord with the good-faith policy of Wikipedia NPOV, I am consciously writing for the opposition, including many Orthodox POVs, not just one. You would do well to do the same. User:RK 13:23, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC) == Female Orthodox rabbis? == I've tried to understand the disagreement between User:RK and User:IZAK on these pages and am unclear what its essence is. This is not a topic I know much about, but it seems to me that there is agreement on certain crucial facts: * The halachic case for or against ordination of women requires consideration of a wide range of factors. I don't know the extent to which the issue has been discussed and decided among leading Orthodox rabbis, but it may be worthwhile outlining the state of the issue. * Nobody is saying that women can't be rabbis because they're inferior in any way. * Nobody is saying that women have no role to play in what I would - for lack of a better term - call a "rabbinic process." They may be consulted on specific issues and are obliged to learn. * I don't know if the account of two female Orthodox rabbis can be verified; even if it is true, they are certainly avoiding publicity. I don't know, for example, if the issue is something as absolute whether women are eligible or ineligible for ordination, or if it's one of those things that are halachically possible but practically inconceivable. Similarly, I don't know whether the Orthodox community views the issue as a non-starter because there are other things they'd rather worry about. It might also be worthwhile discussing the role of the rebbetzin in Orthodox communities - Chaya Schneerson is certainly revered within the Lubavitch community, as an example.--User:Leifern 03:32, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC) :RK has the habit of finding controversial fringe issues and blowing them up to tremendous proportions. :The vast majority of Orthodoxy, both Haredi and Modern-Orthodox, does not support female rabbis. Women can fill a leadership role in different ways, and frequently do. :If the subject needs to be discussed at all, a few lines are enough, with the obvious disclaimer that only the extreme left wing of Modern Orthodoxy supports female rabbinate. I do not like RK's new version at all. User:Jfdwolff | User_talk:Jfdwolff 09:52, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::JFW, this is a major issue issue in Israeli and American Orthodox Judaism. No one well read on this topic could ever present it as "fringe", nor should one falsely accuse me of blowing up some minor discussion. It is discussed in Orthodox Yeshivas, in the American Jewish press, the Israeli Jewish press, and the result is that even some Haredi rabbis accept the Toanot as valid. User:RK 12:28, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC) ::I agree. It is yet another attempt to take what is at best a (currently unverified) tiny fringe phenomenon in Orthodoxy and blow it up so that it dominates the article. Not surprisingly, this tiny left-wing fringe in Orthodoxy also happens to be fairly closely aligned with the Conservative movement's view. User:Jayjg^{User_talk:Jayjg} 17:19, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::JayJG, again, please stop your personal attacks against me and against Orthodox Jews that do not share your beliefs. For those who don't understand why JayJG's statement above is inappropriate, know that it is considered an ad homenim attack in much of the Orthodox Jewish community to label a fellow Orthodox Jew's view as "Conservative" or "non-Orthodox." JayJG obviously disapproves of the many Orthodox Jews who accept such developments within Orthodoxy, and is attempting to demean them by implying that they are not really Orthodox. While he has the right to have this view, this encyclopedia is not the place to engage in such religious polemics. User:RK :::It would be grossly incorrect to claim that the growing number of Orthodox Jews accepting these changes is only a "tiny fring aligned with the Conservative movement." That kind of rhetoric may make some religious extremists feel happy, but there is little truth to the charge. Please use this Talk page for its sole intended purpose: For discussion of how to improve this article. Read the sources I offered, and if you question any fact, please bring your own sources. Please desist in your religious polemics against Orthodox Jews who happen to have views that differ from your own. User:RK 12:37, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC) Both of you are missing the point: Neither of you responded to the ''specific points'' that I made, above. The problem is not in the discussion of facts. The problem is that Izak is still using this article to pontificate and write POV essays. In fact, in all other articles Izak's POV essay writing is precisely the sort of thing that JayJG works so hard to stop, as it clearly violates our NPOV policy. ''All I am asking is that we just describe the facts and cite sources in accord with NPOV.'' But Izak isn't adding any facts; he is just venting anger. User:RK 12:28, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC) In the comment line to one of his recent edits, Izak writes '''Please stop making "me" the issue here and stick to the topics. "To'anot" no matter how smart, are NOT "Rabbis" .To use "clergy" inaccurate''' This claim takes my breath away, as I obviously wrote no such thing. In fact, I wrote the very opposite. I specifically wrote that (a) Orthodox Judaism does ''not'' accept women as rabbis, (b) that Toanot are ''not'' rabbis, and (C) that Orthodox Jews consider these clergy-like roles, and ''not'' rabbinical clergy. So what does Izak do? He pretends that I wrote the exact opposite, and the rewrites the entire section of the article to attack words that are not even there! This is not professional or even in accord with Wikipedia policy. In fact, I have a hard time parsing it as rational. User:RK :I am now suggesting, and will soon initiate, this solution: we delete the paragraph on the possibility of female Orthodox rabbis altogether, and create a separate section on female rabbis in general, outlining the various movements' position on the practice. I will make an effort to phrase the Orthodox position in a way that is accurate and neutral, though I'm sure both RK and Izak will want to weigh in. We'll see if that makes things worse or better. --User:Leifern 12:51, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC) ::Just to clarify, are you suggesting moving this section to an entirely new article, and only briefly describe this topic within this main article? I would be fine with that. Izak, I am afraid, would not be fine with anything. Please read his comments: He is attacking statements not in the article, is censoring the article by deleting entire sections (the entire Reference section), and is claiming that I personally am responsible for all these changes in Orthodoxy. I seriously doubt that he has actually read any of the articles in the references section, and is unfamiliar with the issue. User:RK 13:27, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC) :::My idea is that we set up a separate section within the article on the issue of women and rabbis. --User:Leifern 13:32, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC) == Cleanup? == This is really interesting reading, but I suspect that it makes more sense to someone who already knows a bit about the topic than someone who wants to learn about it. I don't have time to do anything about this before Pesach, but perhaps we can reduce some of the conflict and make this more readable by restructuring the article. I'll propose some ideas next week. In the meantime, I'll wish everyone a sweet and kosher Passover. --User:Leifern 14:11, 2005 Apr 22 (UTC) == Is marriage a requirement for rabbi ? == Does one have to get married before one can become a rabbi ? :No, but most people seem to think that it's preferable if they are. --User:Leifern 15:48, 2005 Apr 26 (UTC)

See other meanings of words starting from letter:

R

RA | RB | RC | RD | RE | RF | RG | RH | RI | RJ | RK | RL | RM | RN | RO | RP | RS | RT | RU | RW | RX | RY | RZ |

Words begining with Rabbi:

Rabbi
Rabbi
Rabbie_L._Namaliu
Rabbie_Langanai_Namaliu
Rabbie_Namaliu
Rabbinic
Rabbinical
Rabbinical_Assembly
Rabbinical_Council_of_America
Rabbinical_Council_of_America
Rabbinical_Judaism
Rabbinical_literature
Rabbinical_Seminary_of_America
Rabbinic_Judaism
Rabbinic_Literature
Rabbinic_literature
Rabbinic_literature
Rabbinic_ordination
Rabbis
Rabbis
Rabbis
Rabbis
Rabbis_for_Human_Rights
Rabbit
Rabbit
Rabbit's_foot
Rabbit-Proof_Fence
Rabbit-Proof_Fence_(movie)
Rabbit-Proof_Fence_(movie)
Rabbit1997
Rabbiteye
Rabbiteye_blueberry
Rabbiting
Rabbitkind
Rabbitmon
Rabbits
Rabbits-foot_fern
Rabbits_(film)
Rabbits_(webcomic)
Rabbits_(Zillions_game)
Rabbits_in_Australia
Rabbits_in_Australia
Rabbitt
Rabbit_(Australia)
Rabbit_(Australia)
Rabbit_(australia)
Rabbit_(disambiguation)
Rabbit_(ecology)
Rabbit_(ecology)
Rabbit_(Winnie_the_Pooh)
Rabbit_(Zodiac)
Rabbit_(zodiac)
Rabbit_At_Rest
Rabbit_Brown
Rabbit_Don't_Come_Easy
Rabbit_Don't_Come_Easy
Rabbit_Ears_Mountains
Rabbit_Ears_Pass
Rabbit_Ears_Range
Rabbit_Fire
Rabbit_Fire
Rabbit_Hole
Rabbit_hole
Rabbit_invasion_in_Australia
Rabbit_Island
Rabbit_Island,_New_Zealand
Rabbit_Is_Rich
Rabbit_Lake_Township,_Minnesota
Rabbit_Lake_Township,_MN
Rabbit_Maranville
Rabbit_Model_Checker
Rabbit_of_Caerbannog
Rabbit_of_Caerbannog
Rabbit_of_Seville
Rabbit_plane
Rabbit_punch
Rabbit_River
Rabbit_Songs
Rabbit_songs
Rabbit_Test
Rabbit_Test_(1978)
Rabbit_Test_(1978)
Rabbit_Transit
Rabbi_Akiva
Rabbi_Akiva
Rabbi_ben_Ezra
Rabbi_Daniel_Lapin
Rabbi_David_Harris
Rabbi_Dovid_Harris
Rabbi_Dovid_Leibowitz
Rabbi_eliyahu_feinstein
Rabbi_Hillel
Rabbi_Hyman_Krustovsky
Rabbi_Ishmael
Rabbi_Israel_Baal_Shem_Tov
Rabbi_Joseph_B._Soloveitchik
Rabbi_Kahane
Rabbi_Leibel_Groner
Rabbi_Levi_(crater)
Rabbi_Lionel_Blue
Rabbi_L�w
Rabbi_Meir_Kahane
Rabbi_Menachem_Mendel
Rabbi_Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson
Rabbi_Michael_Lerner
Rabbi_Michael_Lerner
Rabbi_Michael_Malkior
Rabbi_Mordecai_Yoffe
Rabbi_Moshe_Chaim_Luzzato
Rabbi_Moshe_HaDarshan
Rabbi_Moshe_Hirsch
Rabbi_Nachman_of_Bratslav
Rabbi_Nachman_of_Breslov
Rabbi_Nachman_von_Breslov
Rabbi_Naftali_Hertz_Ben_Ya�acov_Elchanon
Rabbi_Ovadia_Yosef
Rabbi_Ovadia_Yosef
Rabbi_Samson_Raphael_Hirsch
Rabbi_Shmuel
Rabbi_Shmuel
Rabbi_Small
Rabbi_yeshua_bar_abba
Rabbi_Yochanan
Rabbi_Yochanan_(disambiguation)
Rabbi_Yochanan_bar_Nafcha
Rabbi_Yochanan_bar_Naphcha
Rabbi_Yosef_Yitzchak_Schneersohn
Rabbi_Zvi_David_Hoffman