
Post punk generally refers to the particularly fertile and creative period following the initial punk rock 'explosion'. During the first wave of punk, roughly spanning 1976-1983, bands such as The Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Ramones and The Damned began to challenge the current styles and conventions of rock music by stripping the musical structure down to a few basic chords and progressions with an emphasis on speed and attitude. But as punk itself came to have a signature sound a few bands began to experiment with more challenging musical structures, lyrical themes, and a self consciously art-based image, while retaining punk's initial iconoclastic stance. Typically more introverted, complex, arty and experimental music than classic punk rock or the more pop oriented New Wave music, post punk laid the groundwork for "alternative rock" by broadening the idea of what punk and underground music could do, incorporating elements of Krautrock, Jamaican dub music, American funk and studio experimentation into the punk rock genre. It found a firm place in the 1980s college rock scene, and left behind several major sub-genres. However, post punk's biggest influence remains in the vast variety of sounds and styles it pioneered, many of which proved very influential in the later alternative rock scene. Championed by late night BBC disc jockey John Peel and record label/shop Rough Trade Records (amongst others- including Postcard Records, Factory Records, Falling A Records, Fast Product, Mute Records, among others), "post punk" could arguably be said to encompass many diverse groups and musicians. In the list that follows, it should be noted that some of these groups were contemporary with or predated the early punk period from which post punk sprang. Also, many of the listed groups have been considered members of other genres ''in addition'' to post punk, such as punk and new wave. In 2003 and 2004, the term post punk began to appear in the music press again, with some critics reviving the label to describe a new set of bands that shared some of the aesthetics of the original post punk era. 21st century bands described as "post punk" have included Franz Ferdinand (band), Interpol (band), Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Metric (band), The Killers (band), The Weakerthans and The Stills. Other critics simply labelled the bands modern rock, alongside pop punk acts such as Green Day, Good Charlotte, Sum 41 and The Ataris, or as indie rock. Unlike the original post punk artists, who were often deliberately difficult and obtuse, bands of the post-punk revival were more accessible and radio friendly, leading some to claim that they were not stylisic torchbearers of the post punk style but were instead simply a variant within the dominant commercial style of Rock and roll. One notable addition to the post-punk genre of music is Television (band), whose album Marquee Moon, although released in 1977 (when the punk genre was just being formed), is considered definitive post-punk in style. See also: Industrial music, Cassette culture, Indie rock ==Post punk bands== *23 Skidoo *A Certain Ratio *Au Pairs *Automatic Pilot *Bauhaus (band) - Also considered progenitors and members of the massively influential goth rock style. *Big_Flame *Big Black *The Birthday Party (band) *The Blood Brothers (band) *The Boredoms *Cabaret Voltaire (band) - Also considered early pioneers of industrial music specifically, and electronic music in general. *Crass - Crass adhered so strongly to the punk ethos, regularly eschewing popularity or accessibility, that they cannot be contained by the label of punk. Their music, while bearing little in common with other post punk bands, was still an unwavering attempt to take punk music to the next level. *The Cure - Like Bauhaus, The Cure are considered progenitors and members of the massively influential goth rock style. *Cultural Amnesia *Depeche Mode *Devo *The Durutti Column *Echo & the Bunnymen *Einstürzende Neubauten *Essential Logic *Factrix *Fad Gadget *The Fall (band) - The Fall's music changes drastically in "phases" designed primarily by a shifting emphasis of leadership. However, their music remains consistently post punk throughout their career. *The Feelies *The Fire Engines *Firehose *Flying Lizards *Fugazi (band) *Gang of Four (band) *Gene Loves Jezebel *Happy Mondays *The Human League - Perhaps better known for their more accessible music, which is described as New Wave, and not post punk. *Hüsker Dü *insane picnic *Interpol (band) *Josef K (band) *Joy Division (band) *Killing Joke *The Lemon Kittens *Magazine (band) - Straddling the line between post punk and New Wave, Magazine was formed by the remains of the early punk legends Buzzcocks. *The Mekons *The Minutemen *Mission of Burma *Monte Cazazza *New Order *The Normal *Orange Juice *John Otway *Pere Ubu (band) *Pink Turns Blue *Poison Girls *The Pop Group (group) *Psychedelic Furs *Public Image Ltd. - This abrasive group was formed by Johnny Rotten, vocalist of the Sex Pistols, after the Pistols' disbanding. *The Raincoats *Red Crayola *The Replacements *Scritti Politti *Shellac (band) *Siouxsie and the Banshees *Spasmodic Caress *Suicide (band) - Contemporaries of Cabaret Voltaire (band), Suicide are considered early architects of industrial music. *Swans (band) *Swell Maps *The Slits *The Strokes *This Heat *Throbbing Gristle - Considered by many to be the first industrial group, Throbbing Gristle challenged their audiences, both live and on studio recordings, in a way that places them firmly in the post punk category. *Le Tigre *Tuxedomoon - Making music that, ostensibly, was intended for various independent film projects, Tuxedomoon's albums are often categorized as film music. *Winston Tong *The Wake *Wire (band) - Starting as a first wave British punk group, Wire's sound quickly grew to encompass post punk, and they were instrumental in the development of synth-pop and techno music. *Young Marble Giants ==External links== *[http://dropdeadfestival.com Drop Dead Festival] *[http://nydecay.com NY Decay] *[http://www.phantomcreepfriday.com Phantom Creep Friday] *[http://winstontong.sevcom.com Winston Tong] *[http://geocities.com/factrix@pacbell.net Factrix] Punk Post punk
why do you include some of the 'radio friendly' bands in the list of post-punk? its not clear whether they should be considered as post-punk. perhaps a separate page for the 'revival'? although i wonder if it should be given that must respect ---- Punk does not continue to exist and has been dead since 1983. :Welcome! Am I still alive, maybe ''I'' died shortly after? More seriously, I would disagree with the above assertion. Can you quote any source as holding that opinion, it would be great! User:Hyacinth 00:48, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC) :I believe Crass did a song called "Punk is Dead" circa 1983, stating that punk had become a fashion, and that any substance the movement originally had was now gone. I don't really agree, and don't think that this is particularly relevant to the article, but I just thought I'd give a reference point for the above user's comments.User:Tomorrowsashes 03:42, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC) == neopostpunk bands == Should bands like Bloc Party and Shellac be included in the list of post-punk bands? I don't think they should, as they weren't part of the original movement. User:Cnwb 00:47, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC) :Perhaps a new article called post punk revival (or something similar) needs to be created for these newer bands. User:Cnwb 00:51, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC) Ummmm. . . . sentence starting "Championed by. . . " seems a bit UK-centric. Anybody wanna weigh in with some U.S. champions and labels? User:Soundguy99 17:51, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC) Re: US champions and labels Well, to be fair, post punk was an almost exclusively British phenomenon. I can't think of a single American post punk band off the top of my head. The equivalent movement was hardcore punk in America. ----- American Post-Punk has a very distinct sound, and I guess it's the main origin of the early indie rock, more than english post-punk itself. Well, in USA there were Savage Republic, The 100 Flowers (formely the punk band Urinals), Redex, Television, etc... hardcore scene is the correspondent to uk82, or second-wave punk in england, specially the early anarcopunk/peace-punk scene. I guess that a uk band with "sound"-equivalence to usa post-punk is The Sound.. I mean, they're less bass driven and more melodic guitar driven, less existencialistic, less reggae/dub influenced, but are definitively post-punk. I think it's an imediate consequence of the big differences between usa punk and uk punk. Any way, I think some "sattelite" scenes must be added. The Belgium/Dutch scene with Factory Benelux, had some influence in uk bands like Mecano, Flue, The Names and Minny Pops. Some worldwide scenes with relevant creativity like in Brazil: Vzyadoq Moe, Smack, Akira S e As Garotas que Erraram, Akt 2, Fellini and Chance. Other important thing is to show the difference from the early scene, 77-78, founded basically by ex-famous punk bands — the first Public Image Limited (Johnny rotten/ex-Sex Pistols) album in 1978, second album of Wire, and first album of Magazine (Howard Devoto/ex-Buzzcocks) contain almost every thing to be explored by post-punk—, and the following bands, like Mekons, The Fall, This Heat, Gang Of Four, Au Pairs, etc, which are more university-student/artistic and experimental oriented, from the 79-82 scene (the called "gloom n' doom"), with Bauhaus, the post-Warsaw Joy Division, Killing Joke, Cure, Siouxsie, which are more dark, existencialist, introspective, strutucturally simple. Also the new wave of post-punk influenced bands aren't always naively "pop". Franz Ferdinand, Stellastarr* and Bloc Party are surely mainstream, but Metric, for example, isn't; there is a direct steatement in leaving the stereotype of "intelligent music = dark and less fun" in favor of joyful inteligence... Le Tigre is a hell influenced by Post-Punk, and are very joyful. Xiu Xiu on the other hand is very harsh and experimental, but it surely have Joy Division/Smiths (listen to "Poe Poe", "Ian Curtis Wish List" and their cover of Joy's "Ceremony"). But I do agree with the idea of creating the post punk revival article; in fact, the main aspects of the 80's post-punk, like emergence of independent labels, the two-tone ska/reggae/dub revival and especially the feeling of the lost of a big-thing (the diy/freeing punk spirit) is not compatible with the situation where neopost-punk emerged. Many of these bands fully incorpore the current development of the musical scene, like the rock-folk of Cat Power, the characteristic riffs of the previous Strokes/Hives explosion, the danceblable electronic beats (not that similar to the emergent synth scene or even the dance-music scene of the 80s), the post-rock structure, etc... neopost-punk , despite beeing sound-similar, have a complete different meaning; it have more to do with the retro hype than with a post-post-rock steatment. And don't forget to include Interpol on the neopost-punk list! == "Post punk", "post-punk", "post-punk revival" == I'm wondering about the specifics of labelling these punk rock genres: in the discussions above and in recent music press articles, the term "post-punk" (with a hyphen) is most commonly used, whereas in this Wikipedia article the focus is on "post punk" (no hyphen). The "post-punk" that we are most likely to discuss today clearly has nothing to do with the "post punk" fallout in the late-1970s/early-1980s, and I was surprised to learn that there has already been a "post punk" genre proper: the modern usage "post-punk" most definitely refers to a revival of elements of punk from its original era, rather than to a reaction against this era, and is instead a reaction against ''what punk has become'' in mainstream 1990s American culture. That is, "post-punk" is reacting against this last decade's American skater/pop punk (e.g., New Found Glory or Dashboard Confessional) as well as its American alternative punk (e.g., Green Day or Offspring), whereas the original "post punk" was a reaction against the original 1970s punk movement, primarily NOT in America. So my questions are: #Is there any precedent for calling this new "post-punk" the "post-punk revival" (any music press usage of this term)? I don't think Wikipedia is the community that should coin this new term. #How exactly was the original "post punk" label written, with or without a hyphen? #If the correct terminology is "post-punk" (with hyphen) in both eras, shouldn't that be the main article? And if it was "post punk" in the 1980s, there should probably be two articles, since the modern usage is definitely "post-punk" and refers to something very different from "post punk". I think getting the hyphen down is important: this isn't ''post office'' punk, this is the music that ''comes after punk'', and just as it is "post-rock" (used to describe Tortoise (band) and others) and "post-hardcore" (Fugazi, other Dischord Records bands, At the Drive-In, etc.), so should it be "post-punk". Grammatically that's my opinion, and apparently that of the modern music press as well. And to whoever wrote that big comment on punk above, very nicely put, you should sign your name yo! And go bless the punk rock article with your knowledge buddy, I'll check your spelling for you! :)
User:Tarnas 05:23, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
Punk Early punk groups
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Words begining with Post_punk:
Post-Punk
Post-punk
Post-punk
Post_punk
Post_punk
Post_punk
Post punk
Post punk generally refers to the particularly fertile and creative period following the initial punk rock 'explosion'. During the first wave of punk, roughly spanning 1976-1983, bands such as The Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Ramones and The Damned began to challenge the current styles and conventions of rock music by stripping the musical structure down to a few basic chords and progressions with an emphasis on speed and attitude. But as punk itself came to have a signature sound a few bands began to experiment with more challenging musical structures, lyrical themes, and a self consciously art-based image, while retaining punk's initial iconoclastic stance. Typically more introverted, complex, arty and experimental music than classic punk rock or the more pop oriented New Wave music, post punk laid the groundwork for "alternative rock" by broadening the idea of what punk and underground music could do, incorporating elements of Krautrock, Jamaican dub music, American funk and studio experimentation into the punk rock genre. It found a firm place in the 1980s college rock scene, and left behind several major sub-genres. However, post punk's biggest influence remains in the vast variety of sounds and styles it pioneered, many of which proved very influential in the later alternative rock scene. Championed by late night BBC disc jockey John Peel and record label/shop Rough Trade Records (amongst others- including Postcard Records, Factory Records, Falling A Records, Fast Product, Mute Records, among others), "post punk" could arguably be said to encompass many diverse groups and musicians. In the list that follows, it should be noted that some of these groups were contemporary with or predated the early punk period from which post punk sprang. Also, many of the listed groups have been considered members of other genres ''in addition'' to post punk, such as punk and new wave. In 2003 and 2004, the term post punk began to appear in the music press again, with some critics reviving the label to describe a new set of bands that shared some of the aesthetics of the original post punk era. 21st century bands described as "post punk" have included Franz Ferdinand (band), Interpol (band), Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Metric (band), The Killers (band), The Weakerthans and The Stills. Other critics simply labelled the bands modern rock, alongside pop punk acts such as Green Day, Good Charlotte, Sum 41 and The Ataris, or as indie rock. Unlike the original post punk artists, who were often deliberately difficult and obtuse, bands of the post-punk revival were more accessible and radio friendly, leading some to claim that they were not stylisic torchbearers of the post punk style but were instead simply a variant within the dominant commercial style of Rock and roll. One notable addition to the post-punk genre of music is Television (band), whose album Marquee Moon, although released in 1977 (when the punk genre was just being formed), is considered definitive post-punk in style. See also: Industrial music, Cassette culture, Indie rock ==Post punk bands== *23 Skidoo *A Certain Ratio *Au Pairs *Automatic Pilot *Bauhaus (band) - Also considered progenitors and members of the massively influential goth rock style. *Big_Flame *Big Black *The Birthday Party (band) *The Blood Brothers (band) *The Boredoms *Cabaret Voltaire (band) - Also considered early pioneers of industrial music specifically, and electronic music in general. *Crass - Crass adhered so strongly to the punk ethos, regularly eschewing popularity or accessibility, that they cannot be contained by the label of punk. Their music, while bearing little in common with other post punk bands, was still an unwavering attempt to take punk music to the next level. *The Cure - Like Bauhaus, The Cure are considered progenitors and members of the massively influential goth rock style. *Cultural Amnesia *Depeche Mode *Devo *The Durutti Column *Echo & the Bunnymen *Einstürzende Neubauten *Essential Logic *Factrix *Fad Gadget *The Fall (band) - The Fall's music changes drastically in "phases" designed primarily by a shifting emphasis of leadership. However, their music remains consistently post punk throughout their career. *The Feelies *The Fire Engines *Firehose *Flying Lizards *Fugazi (band) *Gang of Four (band) *Gene Loves Jezebel *Happy Mondays *The Human League - Perhaps better known for their more accessible music, which is described as New Wave, and not post punk. *Hüsker Dü *insane picnic *Interpol (band) *Josef K (band) *Joy Division (band) *Killing Joke *The Lemon Kittens *Magazine (band) - Straddling the line between post punk and New Wave, Magazine was formed by the remains of the early punk legends Buzzcocks. *The Mekons *The Minutemen *Mission of Burma *Monte Cazazza *New Order *The Normal *Orange Juice *John Otway *Pere Ubu (band) *Pink Turns Blue *Poison Girls *The Pop Group (group) *Psychedelic Furs *Public Image Ltd. - This abrasive group was formed by Johnny Rotten, vocalist of the Sex Pistols, after the Pistols' disbanding. *The Raincoats *Red Crayola *The Replacements *Scritti Politti *Shellac (band) *Siouxsie and the Banshees *Spasmodic Caress *Suicide (band) - Contemporaries of Cabaret Voltaire (band), Suicide are considered early architects of industrial music. *Swans (band) *Swell Maps *The Slits *The Strokes *This Heat *Throbbing Gristle - Considered by many to be the first industrial group, Throbbing Gristle challenged their audiences, both live and on studio recordings, in a way that places them firmly in the post punk category. *Le Tigre *Tuxedomoon - Making music that, ostensibly, was intended for various independent film projects, Tuxedomoon's albums are often categorized as film music. *Winston Tong *The Wake *Wire (band) - Starting as a first wave British punk group, Wire's sound quickly grew to encompass post punk, and they were instrumental in the development of synth-pop and techno music. *Young Marble Giants ==External links== *[http://dropdeadfestival.com Drop Dead Festival] *[http://nydecay.com NY Decay] *[http://www.phantomcreepfriday.com Phantom Creep Friday] *[http://winstontong.sevcom.com Winston Tong] *[http://geocities.com/factrix@pacbell.net Factrix] Punk Post punk
Post punk
why do you include some of the 'radio friendly' bands in the list of post-punk? its not clear whether they should be considered as post-punk. perhaps a separate page for the 'revival'? although i wonder if it should be given that must respect ---- Punk does not continue to exist and has been dead since 1983. :Welcome! Am I still alive, maybe ''I'' died shortly after? More seriously, I would disagree with the above assertion. Can you quote any source as holding that opinion, it would be great! User:Hyacinth 00:48, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC) :I believe Crass did a song called "Punk is Dead" circa 1983, stating that punk had become a fashion, and that any substance the movement originally had was now gone. I don't really agree, and don't think that this is particularly relevant to the article, but I just thought I'd give a reference point for the above user's comments.User:Tomorrowsashes 03:42, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC) == neopostpunk bands == Should bands like Bloc Party and Shellac be included in the list of post-punk bands? I don't think they should, as they weren't part of the original movement. User:Cnwb 00:47, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC) :Perhaps a new article called post punk revival (or something similar) needs to be created for these newer bands. User:Cnwb 00:51, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC) Ummmm. . . . sentence starting "Championed by. . . " seems a bit UK-centric. Anybody wanna weigh in with some U.S. champions and labels? User:Soundguy99 17:51, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC) Re: US champions and labels Well, to be fair, post punk was an almost exclusively British phenomenon. I can't think of a single American post punk band off the top of my head. The equivalent movement was hardcore punk in America. ----- American Post-Punk has a very distinct sound, and I guess it's the main origin of the early indie rock, more than english post-punk itself. Well, in USA there were Savage Republic, The 100 Flowers (formely the punk band Urinals), Redex, Television, etc... hardcore scene is the correspondent to uk82, or second-wave punk in england, specially the early anarcopunk/peace-punk scene. I guess that a uk band with "sound"-equivalence to usa post-punk is The Sound.. I mean, they're less bass driven and more melodic guitar driven, less existencialistic, less reggae/dub influenced, but are definitively post-punk. I think it's an imediate consequence of the big differences between usa punk and uk punk. Any way, I think some "sattelite" scenes must be added. The Belgium/Dutch scene with Factory Benelux, had some influence in uk bands like Mecano, Flue, The Names and Minny Pops. Some worldwide scenes with relevant creativity like in Brazil: Vzyadoq Moe, Smack, Akira S e As Garotas que Erraram, Akt 2, Fellini and Chance. Other important thing is to show the difference from the early scene, 77-78, founded basically by ex-famous punk bands — the first Public Image Limited (Johnny rotten/ex-Sex Pistols) album in 1978, second album of Wire, and first album of Magazine (Howard Devoto/ex-Buzzcocks) contain almost every thing to be explored by post-punk—, and the following bands, like Mekons, The Fall, This Heat, Gang Of Four, Au Pairs, etc, which are more university-student/artistic and experimental oriented, from the 79-82 scene (the called "gloom n' doom"), with Bauhaus, the post-Warsaw Joy Division, Killing Joke, Cure, Siouxsie, which are more dark, existencialist, introspective, strutucturally simple. Also the new wave of post-punk influenced bands aren't always naively "pop". Franz Ferdinand, Stellastarr* and Bloc Party are surely mainstream, but Metric, for example, isn't; there is a direct steatement in leaving the stereotype of "intelligent music = dark and less fun" in favor of joyful inteligence... Le Tigre is a hell influenced by Post-Punk, and are very joyful. Xiu Xiu on the other hand is very harsh and experimental, but it surely have Joy Division/Smiths (listen to "Poe Poe", "Ian Curtis Wish List" and their cover of Joy's "Ceremony"). But I do agree with the idea of creating the post punk revival article; in fact, the main aspects of the 80's post-punk, like emergence of independent labels, the two-tone ska/reggae/dub revival and especially the feeling of the lost of a big-thing (the diy/freeing punk spirit) is not compatible with the situation where neopost-punk emerged. Many of these bands fully incorpore the current development of the musical scene, like the rock-folk of Cat Power, the characteristic riffs of the previous Strokes/Hives explosion, the danceblable electronic beats (not that similar to the emergent synth scene or even the dance-music scene of the 80s), the post-rock structure, etc... neopost-punk , despite beeing sound-similar, have a complete different meaning; it have more to do with the retro hype than with a post-post-rock steatment. And don't forget to include Interpol on the neopost-punk list! == "Post punk", "post-punk", "post-punk revival" == I'm wondering about the specifics of labelling these punk rock genres: in the discussions above and in recent music press articles, the term "post-punk" (with a hyphen) is most commonly used, whereas in this Wikipedia article the focus is on "post punk" (no hyphen). The "post-punk" that we are most likely to discuss today clearly has nothing to do with the "post punk" fallout in the late-1970s/early-1980s, and I was surprised to learn that there has already been a "post punk" genre proper: the modern usage "post-punk" most definitely refers to a revival of elements of punk from its original era, rather than to a reaction against this era, and is instead a reaction against ''what punk has become'' in mainstream 1990s American culture. That is, "post-punk" is reacting against this last decade's American skater/pop punk (e.g., New Found Glory or Dashboard Confessional) as well as its American alternative punk (e.g., Green Day or Offspring), whereas the original "post punk" was a reaction against the original 1970s punk movement, primarily NOT in America. So my questions are: #Is there any precedent for calling this new "post-punk" the "post-punk revival" (any music press usage of this term)? I don't think Wikipedia is the community that should coin this new term. #How exactly was the original "post punk" label written, with or without a hyphen? #If the correct terminology is "post-punk" (with hyphen) in both eras, shouldn't that be the main article? And if it was "post punk" in the 1980s, there should probably be two articles, since the modern usage is definitely "post-punk" and refers to something very different from "post punk". I think getting the hyphen down is important: this isn't ''post office'' punk, this is the music that ''comes after punk'', and just as it is "post-rock" (used to describe Tortoise (band) and others) and "post-hardcore" (Fugazi, other Dischord Records bands, At the Drive-In, etc.), so should it be "post-punk". Grammatically that's my opinion, and apparently that of the modern music press as well. And to whoever wrote that big comment on punk above, very nicely put, you should sign your name yo! And go bless the punk rock article with your knowledge buddy, I'll check your spelling for you! :)
User:Tarnas 05:23, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
Post punk
Punk Early punk groups
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