
The Servant of God Pope John Paul II (Ecclesiastical Latin: ''Ioannes Paulus P.P. II''), born Karol Józef Wojtyła (May 18, 1920–April 2, 2005), reigned as pope of the Roman Catholic Church and sovereign of Vatican City for almost 27 years, from 16 October 1978 until his death in 2005. On 13 May 2005 Pope Benedict XVI, John Paul II's successor, waived the five year waiting period for a cause for beatification to be opened. The official process for beatification will begin on June 28, 2005. [http://opportunities.typepad.com/news/2005/06/pope_john_paul_.html] The first non-Italian people to serve in office since the Dutch people-German people Pope Adrian VI died in 1523, John Paul II's reign was the List of 10 longest-reigning popes in the history of the Papacy, after those of Saint Peter (approximately 35 years) and Pope Pius IX (31 years). This is in a distinctive contrast with that of his predecessor Pope John Paul I, who died suddenly after only 33 days in office, and in whose memory John Paul II named himself. Pope John Paul II's reign was marked by a continuing decline of Catholicism in developed country but expansion in the Third World. In addition, John Paul II advocated conservative values in the Roman Catholic Church, opposing gay marriage and abortion, among a host of other issues; however, the Pontiff voiced support for the theory of evolution. During his reign, the pope travelled extensively, visiting over 100 countries and all continents. His health deteriorated in the late 1990s, as he was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease. On 2 April 2005, two months after receiving a tracheotomy, Pope John Paul II passed away. ==Overview== The man from Poland will be remembered as the "people's Pope." He is respected around the world by both Christians and non-Christians. There is a John Paul II Foundation which has many offices around the world. The headquarters is located in Rome in the Polish House. His papacy is remembered by his tireless ecumenical approach to accommodate other Chritian sects as well as to forge a better understanding with the Islamic world. At his funeral, many non-Chritian faiths were represented including representatives from Isalm and Bhuddism. John Paul II emphasized what he called the "universal call to holiness" and attempted to define the Catholic Church's role in the modern world. He spoke out against ideologies and politics of communism, feminism, imperialism, relativism, materialism, fascism (including nazism), racism and unrestrained capitalism. In many ways, he fought against oppression, secularism and poverty. Although he was on friendly terms with many Western world heads of state and leading citizens, he reserved a special opprobrium for what he believed to be the corrosive spiritual effects of modern Western consumerism and the concomitant widespread secular and hedonistic orientation of Western populations. John Paul II affirmed traditional Catholic teachings by opposing abortion, contraception, capital punishment, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning, euthanasia, war, but accepting evolution. He also defended traditional teachings on marriage and gender roles by opposing divorce, same-sex marriage and the ordination of women. His conservative views were sometimes criticized as regressive. John Paul II called upon Catholics to vote according to their beliefs, even if they were based on their religion, and suggested that politicians who strayed be denied the Eucharist. John Paul II became known as the "Pilgrim Pope" for traveling greater distances than had all his predecessors combined. According to John Paul II, the trips symbolized bridge-building efforts (in keeping with his title as Pontifex Maximus, literally Master Bridge-Builder) between nations and religions, attempting to remove divisions created through history. He beatified 1,340 people, more people than any previous pope. The Vatican asserts he canonized more people than the combined tally of his predecessors during the last five centuries, and from a far greater variety of cultures. Whether he had canonized more saints than all previous popes put together, as is sometimes also claimed, is difficult to prove, as the records of many early canonizations are incomplete, missing, or inaccurate. However, it is known that his abolition of the office of ''Promotor Fidei'' ("Promoter of the Faith" and the origin of the term Devil's Advocate) streamlined the process. Pope John Paul II died on 2 April 2005 after a long fight against Parkinson's disease and other illnesses. Immediately after his death, many of his followers demanded that he be elevated to sainthood as soon as possible, shouting "Santo Subito". Both ''L'Osservatore Romano'' and Pope Benedict XVI, Pope John Paul II's successor, referred to John Paul II as "Great". John Paul II was succeeded by the Dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Pope Benedict XVI of Germany, the former head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith who had led the funeral mass for John Paul II. == Biography == ===Early life=== Karol Józef Wojtyła was born on 18 May 1920 in Wadowice in southern Poland. His mother died in 1929, and his father supported him so that he could study. His youth was marked by intensive contacts with the then thriving Jewish community of Wadowice. Karol enrolled at the Jagiellonian University in Kraków. He worked as a volunteer librarian and did compulsory military training in the Academic Legion. In his youth he was an athletics, acting and playwright and he learned as many as eleven languages. During the Second World War academics of the Jagiellonian University were arrested and the university suppressed. All able-bodied males had to have a job. He variously worked as a messenger for a restaurant and a manual laborer in a limestone quarry. ===Church career=== [[Image:Pjp2b.jpg|thumb|215px|right|Pope Paul VI greets Karol Cardinal Wojtyła.]] [[Image:JP1meetsJP2.jpg|thumb|right|215px|Pope John Paul I greets Karol Cardinal Wojtyła.]] In 1942 he entered the Underground education in Poland during World War II run by the Archbishop of Kraków, Adam Stefan Cardinal Sapieha. Karol Wojtyła was ordination a priest on 1 November 1946. On 4 July 1958 Pope Pius XII named him titular bishop of Ombi and auxiliary to Archbishop Baziak, apostolic administrator of the Archdiocese of Kraków. Karol Wojtyła found himself at 38 the youngest bishop in Poland. In 1962 Bishop Wojtyła took part in the Second Vatican Council, and in December 1963 Pope Paul VI appointed him Archbishop of Kraków. Paul VI elevated him to Cardinal (Catholicism) in 1967. ===A Pope from Poland=== In August 1978 following Paul's death, he voted in the Papal election that elected Pope John Paul I, who at 65 was considered young by papal standards. However John Paul I was in poor health and he died after only 33 days as pope, thereby precipitating another conclave. Voting in the second conclave was divided between two particularly strong candidates: Giuseppe Cardinal Siri, the Archbishop of Genoa; and Giovanni Cardinal Benelli, the Archbishop of Florence and a close associate of Pope John Paul I. In early ballots, Benelli came within nine votes of victory. However Wojtyła secured election as a compromise candidate, in part through the support of Franz Cardinal König and others who had previously supported Cardinal Siri. He became the 264th Pope according to the Vatican (265th according to sources that count Pope Stephen II). At only 58 years of age, he was the youngest pope elected since Pope Pius IX in 1846. Like his immediate predecessor, Pope John Paul II dispensed with the traditional Papal coronation and instead received ecclesiastical investiture with the simplified Papal inauguration. === Assassination attempts === On 13 May 1981 John Paul II was shot and critically wounded by Mehmet Ali Agca, a Turkish people gunman, as he entered Saint Peter's Square to address an audience. Ağca was eventually sentenced to life imprisonment. Two days after Christmas 1983, John Paul II visited the prison where his would-be assassin was being held. The two spoke privately for some time. John Paul II said, "What we talked about will have to remain a secret between him and me. I spoke to him as a brother whom I have pardoned and who has my complete trust." Another assassination attempt took place on 12 May 1982 in Fatima, Portugal when a man tried to stab John Paul II with a bayonet, but was stopped by security guards. The assailant, an ultraconservative Spanish priest named Juan María Fernández y Krohn, reportedly opposed the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and called the pope an agent of Moscow. He served a six-year sentence, and was expelled from Portugal afterwards. === Health === When he first entered the papacy in 1978, John Paul II was an avid sportsman, enjoying hiking and swimming. In addition, John Paul II travelled extensively after becoming pope; at the time, the 58-year old was extremely healthy and active. In 1981, though, John Paul II's health suffered a major blow after a failed assassination attempt. The bullet-wound caused severe bleeding, and the Pope's blood pressure dropped. In addition, a colostomy was also performed. In the late 1990s, John Paul II began to suffer from slurred speech and difficulty in hearing. In addition, the Pope rarely walked in public. Though not officially confirmed by the Vatican until 2003, most experts agreed that the frail pontiff suffered from Parkinson's Disease. In February 2005 John Paul II was taken to the hospital with an inflammation of the larynx, the result of influenza. Though later released from the hospital, he was taken back later that month after difficulty breathing. A tracheotomy was performed, limiting the pope's speaking abilities. In March of 2005, speculation was high that the Pope was near-death; this was confirmed by the Vatican days before John Paul II passed away. === Death === On 31 March 2005 the Pope developed a very high fever, but was neither rushed to the hospital, nor offered life support, apparently in accordance with his wishes to die in the Vatican. Later that day Vatican sources announced that John Paul II had been given the Anointing of the Sick. During the final days of the Pope's life, the lights were kept burning through the night where he lay in the Papal apartment on the top floor of the Apostolic Palace. Thousands of people rushed to the Vatican, filling St Peter's Square and beyond, and held vigil for two days. He died in his private apartments, at 21:37 CEST (19:37 UTC) on 2 April, 46 days short of his 85th birthday. A crowd of over two million within Vatican City, over one billion Catholics world-wide, and many non-Catholics mourned John Paul II. The Poles were particularly devastated by his death. The public viewing of his body in St. Peter's Basilica drew over four million people to Vatican City and was one of the largest pilgrimages in the history of Christianity. Many world leaders expressed their condolences and ordered flags in their countries lowered to half-mast. Numerous countries with a Catholic majority, and even some with only a small Catholic population, declared mourning for John Paul II. ==== Funeral ==== [[Image:jp2crowdstoseepope.jpg |thumb|300px|right|©Associated Press
Two million people reportedly viewed Pope John Paul II's body lying in state.]] The death of Pope John Paul II set into motion rituals and traditions dating back to medieval times. The Rite of Visitation took place from 4 April and extended through the morning of 8 April at St. Peter's Basilica. So many people came to see him in state that the line had to be cut off with many people still waiting. On 8 April the Mass of Requiem was conducted by the Dean of the College of Cardinals, Pope Benedict XVI, who would become the next pope. It has been estimated to have been the largest attended funeral of all time. John Paul II was interred in the grottoes under the basilica, the Tomb of the Popes. He was lowered into the tomb that had been occupied by the remains of Pope John XXIII, but which had been empty since his remains had been moved into the main body of the basilica after his beatification by John Paul II in 2003. ==== John Paul "The Great" ==== Since the death of John Paul II, a number of clergy at the Vatican have been referring to the late pontiff as "John Paul the Great"—only the fourth pope to be so acclaimed, and the first since the first millennium. His successor, Pope Benedict XVI, referred to him as "the great Pope John Paul II" in his first address from the loggia of St Peter's Church. The Italian newspaper ''Corriere della Sera'' even called him "the Greatest". Scholars of canon law say that there is no official process for declaring a pope "Great"; the title establishes itself through popular, and continued, usage. The three popes who today commonly are known as "Great" are Pope Leo I, who reigned from 440–461 and persuaded Attila the Hun to withdraw from Rome; Pope Gregory I, 590–604, after whom the Gregorian Chant is named; and Pope Nicholas I, 858–867, who also withstood a siege of Rome (in this case from Carolingian Christians, over a dispute regarding marriage annulment). ====Beatification==== On 13 May 2005 Benedict XVI made his first promulgation of the beatification process choosing to honour his predecessor, John Paul II. Normally five years pass before the beatification process begins for a person after his or her death but due to the popularity of John Paul II—devotees chanted "Santo subito!" ("Saint now!") during the late pontiff's funeral—Benedict XVI waived the custom and officially styled the late pope with the title given to all those being scrutinized in the beatification process, Servant of God. Upon the confirmation after scrutiny that the late pontiff's life is found morally clean and manifest heroic virtues, a decree will be proclaimed and John Paul II will be declared ''Venerable'' on the road to beatification. Before changes in canon law in 1917, the title ''Venerable'' was given at the same time a person was declared ''Servant of God''. Today, the titles are separate. Upon the confirmation of miracles attributed to the honoree, John Paul II would then be declared ''Blessed''. A person is strictly prohibited from being officially celebrated in Mass until he or she achieves the title of ''Blessed''. ==Life's work== ===Teachings=== As pope, John Paul II's most important role was to teach people about Roman Catholic Christianity. He wrote a number of important documents that many observers believe will have long-lasting influence on the Church. A notable achievement of John Paul II was the publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which became an international bestseller. Its purpose, according to the Pope's Apostolic Constitution ''Fidei Depositum'' was to be "a statement of the Church's faith and of Catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church's Magisterium." His first encyclical letters focused on the Triune God; the very first was on Jesus the Redeemer (''"Redemptor Hominis"''). Blessed_Virgin_Mary,_Jesus'_mother.">Image:Giovannipaolo 2arms.jpg|thumb|150px|left|Coat of Arms of Pope John Paul II
The letter M is for Blessed Virgin Mary, Jesus' mother. In his Apostolic Letter ''At the beginning of the third millennium'' (''Novo Millennio Ineunte''), a "program for all times" he emphasized the importance of "starting afresh from Christ": "No, we shall not be saved by a formula but by a Person." In ''The Splendor of the Truth'' (''Veritatis Splendor'') he emphasized the dependence of man on God and his law ("Without the Creator, the creature disappears") and the "dependence of freedom on the truth". He warned that man "giving himself over to relativism and skepticism, goes off in search of an illusory freedom apart from truth itself". John Paul II also wrote extensively about workers and the social doctrine of the Church, which he discussed in three encyclicals. Through his encyclicals, John Paul also talked about the dignity of women and the importance of the family for the future of mankind. Other important documents include ''The Gospel of Life'' (''Evangelium Vitae''), ''Faith and Reason'' (''Fides et Ratio''), and ''Orientale Lumen'' (''Light of the East''). John Paul II was also considered by some to have halted the progressive efforts of Second Vatican Council, becoming a standard-bearer for the conservative side of the Catholic Church. He continued his staunch opposition to contraception methods, abortion and homosexuality. John Paul II, as a writer of philosophical and theology thought, was characterised by his explorations in phenomenology. He is also known for his development of the theology of the body. === Pastoral trips === During his pontificate, Pope John Paul II made over 100 foreign trips, more than all previous popes put together. In total he logged more than 1.1 million km (725,000 miles). He consistently attracted large crowds on his travels, some amongst the largest ever assembled in human history. While some of his trips (such as to the United States and the Holy Land) were to places previously visited by Pope Paul VI (the first pope to travel widely), many others were to places that no pope had ever visited before. All these travels were paid by the money of the countries he visited and not by the Vatican. One of John Paul II's earliest official visits was to Poland, in June 1979. In 1982 he became the first reigning pope to travel to the United Kingdom, where he met Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom, the Supreme Governor of the Church of England of the Church of England. Throughout his trips, he stressed his devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary through visits to various shrines to the Virgin Mary, notably Knock in Ireland, Fátima, Portugal in Portugal, Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico and Lourdes in France. In 1984 John Paul II became the first Pope to visit Puerto Rico. On 15 January 1995 he offered mass to an estimated crowd of 4.5 million in Luneta Park, Manila, Philippines, the largest papal crowd ever. On 22 March 1998 he paid a second visit to Nigeria. Also in 1999 John Paul II made another of his multiple trips to the United States. In 2000 he became the first modern Catholic pope to visit Egypt, where he met with the Coptic Christianity and the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria. In May 2001 the Pontiff took a pilgrimage that would trace the steps of his co-namesake, Saint Paul, across the Mediterranean, from Greece to Syria to Malta. He was the first Roman Catholic Pope to visit and pray in an Islamic mosque, in Damascus, Syria. He visited Umayyad Mosque, where John the Baptist is believed to be interred. In September 2001 amid post-September 11, 2001 attacks concerns, he traveled to Kazakhstan, with an audience of largely Muslims, as well as Armenia, to participate in the celebration of the 1700 years of Christianity in that nation. === Relations with other religions === Pope John Paul II traveled extensively and came into contact with many divergent faiths. With these he ceaselessly attempted to find common ground, whether it be doctrinal or dogmatic. He made history with his establishment of contacts with Israel, praying at the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama, the 14th Dalai Lama and the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism, visited Pope John Paul II eight times, more than any other single dignitary. The Pope and the Dalai Lama often shared similar views and understood similar plights, both coming from peoples who have suffered under communism. In contrast, the Northern Irish Protestant leader Ian Paisley repeatedly accused John Paul II of being the Antichrist.
Image:Qur'an.jpg|This picture, often mistakenly regarded as showing the late Pontiff kissing the Qur'an, in fact shows John Paul II reverencing a Book of the Gospels.
Image:Dalai Lama.jpg|John Paul II meets Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama at the Vatican in 1999.
Image:Jp2lutheran_2.jpg|Pope John Paul II becomes the first pope ever to preach in a Lutheranism church; Rome, December 1983
Image:jp ii wailing_wall.jpg|John Paul II prays and expresses sorrow for past Catholic mistreatment of Jews at the Western Wall.
Image:Jp2synogogue.jpg|Pope John Paul II visiting The Great Synagogue of Rome in April 1986
Image:Pope_and_Christodoulos2.jpg|Pope John Paul II and Archbishop Christodoulos issue a "common declaration".
1920 births 2005 deaths Karlspreis laureates Polyglots Polish bishops Papal conclaves Pope John Paul II Popes Servants of God Presidential Medal of Freedom recipients ang:Pápa Iohannes Paulus II fur:Pape Zuan Pauli II hi:पोप जॉन पॉल la:Ioannes Paulus II lv:Pāvests Jānis Pāvils II li:Johannes Paulus II ms:Paus John Paul II zh-min-nan:Jio̍k-bōng Pó-lo̍k II mo:Иоан Паул ал Ⅱ-ля nds:Johannes Paul II. scn:Giuvanni Paulu II simple:Pope John Paul II th:สมเด็จพระสันตะปาปาจอห์น ปอลที่ 2 vi:Gioan Phaolô II
An anon nominated this article to be a Featured Article but did not do the nomination correctly, so I'm placing the tag here now.
:Oops, forgot to sign. :) User:Flcelloguy 22:09, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
::For my own reference: [http://www.answers.com/topic/john-paul-ii LINK/REFERENCE]
Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived.
If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.
Previous discussions:
*Talk:Pope John Paul II/Archive1:
*Talk:Pope John Paul II/Archive2:
*Talk:Pope John Paul II/Archive3:
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==The section regardling "Criticism"==
The section regarding "Criticism" states: ''"Former United States president Bill Clinton added after the pontiff's death that the Pope 'may have had a mixed legacy,' but he called him a man with a great feel for human dignity.[8] (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050406/D89A4IV80.html) Current president George Bush disagreed, claiming that John Paul will have a clear and excellent legacy of peace, compassion and 'setting a clear moral tone.' [9]"'' Is the second sentence really necessary given the title of the section? Hopefully this article does not need a "Rebuttle to the Criticism" section. I'm not so sure that the quote from Clinton is necessary either given that it doesn't address a specific criticism. User:Edwardian 16:11, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:''Former President Clinton said....'' ''President Bush said ...'' -- Will anybody still be interested in what they said, two weeks from now?
:And if yes, what did Carter and the other Bush say? What about the first ladies? -- I think I better go find out now if at least the Austrian chancellor and the head of the opposition agreed on whether the Pope's legacy is "clear" or "mixed", so that I can add this crucial bit of information to the article as well... -- User:Austrian 23:44, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
::Don't forget to poll Hollywood. We wouldn't want to miss out on the latest dish on "JP". User:Variable 02:17, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
::Amen to that! I have removed the remarks from Clinton and Bush. User:Edwardian 01:30, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:::Amen, amen! 01:56, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
==Views on various issues==
The introduction states: ''"He spoke out against communism, imperialism, materialism, Nazism, racism, oppression, secularism, feminism, poverty, and unrestrained capitalism. While he was on friendly terms with many industrialized heads of state, he reserved a special opprobrium for consumerism attributing it to hedonism." '' Is there any reason why the second sentence should stand alone rather than be incorporated into the first (i.e. ''"He spoke out against communism, consumerism, hedonism, imperialism, materialism, Nazism, racism, oppression, secularism, feminism, poverty, and unrestrained capitalism."'')? User:Edwardian 15:57, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:You happened to land on the article when somebody was trying to strip that 2nd sentence of most its meaning. It's now restored and I think you can see it deserves its place. JPII really thought of this secular consumerism as one of the greatest threats to Western psychological/spiritual well being going forward, second only to unbelief itself. User:JDG 07:41, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
==Picture caption==
Isn't the box thing at the top of the photo a bit much? We don't do it for other monarchs nor for other religious leaders. I notice we don't do it for every pope either, just far enough back to make the casual researcher think that it's a common style for all. And what's with the Latin? Was there any justification for any of this?Grace Note 00:23, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:As for the use of Latin, see reversals war in the history of the article "Pope John Paul I" to get a clearer picture. This was a compromise. --Eleassar777 11:01, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
::I don't pretty much care whether or not Latin is used or the office the person held was prominently displayed at the header of the infobox like it was before the changes made by Grace Note. She asked what my intentions were. Just to make my intentions clear with the new infobox, I just wanted to make the infobox look nicer than it was and add it to all the papal articles for consistency. If you all want to hash out little details about the infobox, such as the use of the Latin name, you might as well take it to :Template:Infobox pope for further discussion. --User:Gerald Farinas 14:58, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:::I think we should use the Latin name where it it now. Latin is the official language of the Vatican, and since he is the sole ruler of Vatican City, we should put his name as it is in "his" language. On the part of the infobox, it just collects relevant information into a spot at the head of the article. If the box isn't on all of the articles, we should eventually put them there. It just takes time to go through 250-odd pope articles. 22:37, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
::::I'm working as fast as I can to get those infoboxes on all the papal articles! A gay boy from far north Chicago can only do so much, despite what people think they can do. Hehe. --User:Gerald Farinas 00:15, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:::::So what's your angle, Gerald? You are devoting much time to this and the funeral article. Are you a gay Catholic? Are you an unbeliever who happens to dig the cardinals' wardrobes, or the pomp and circumstance or somesuch? Do you just enjoy the irony? Do fill us in. User:JDG 20:23, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
== Trips Between Countries ==
I removed text about the Pope's journys being made to link the "Abrahamic" religions. I don't think this is necessarily true: the Pope visited countries with high Catholic populations (such as those in Latin America) and low Jewish/Muslim populations. How could he connect the three religions here. Sure, some trips were made to emphasize the connections, but on a whole, it's not true.
Also, I removed a edit stating he had "allegedly" canonized more saints then all of his predecessors. I think this is pretty much a given fact. 23:05, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
:Actually it isn't. It is a bit of hyperbole.
* The method by which saints are canonised has changed, so one is not comparing like with like.
* I have seen no statistical evidence to show that he ''has'' canonised more under the modern method.
And no, that isn't just nickpicking. Newspapers right now talk about the church electing a seventy-something pope as if it does it once and a while to have a short pontificate. I researched the ''real'' facts. John XXIII was the first seventy-something pope for over two centuries. So just because it is a 'given fact' doesn't make it an ''actual fact''. At most we should mention the ''claim'' that he canonised more saints than all his precedessors. But we should not state it as fact. After all the media stated ''as fact'' that the camerlengo hit JPII on the head with a silver hammer. B******t. That ceremony has not happened for generations and was officially abolished by JPII in the mid 1990s. ''Media facts'' and ''actual facts'' are often quite different. Fear''ÉIREANN''">User:Jtdirl 00:12, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:Well, ok, you're right. I think that there was no real canonization process back in the early days of the Church. It was probably more like popular acclaim: you knew a person was holy in their life, then they were killed by the Romans. Later, you go pray at their tomb in the catacombs. I'll try to rework it so the articles "claims" the fact/
You're also totally right about the nitpicking of detail in articles. This stuff is what makes Wikipedia more reliable and dependable in academic circumstances. 01:05, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
==Duplication==
We seem to have 2 biographies now, plus a seperate page ? User:Andycjp
:Yes, there was a major duplication of sections of the article, and at least one section got lost. This would almost certainly be because of a software problem, and not a vandalism. I think it's all fixed now. I suspect this is happening more often in this article than in most, because of the large number of changes made and because the article is longer than our normally recommended maximum length.-User:Gadfium 03:24, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
=="The Great" - 2 0r 3?==
It is in some places said that Pope Nicholas I, (819?-867, Pope 858-867) was also considered "the Great", although I was not myself aware of this before JPII died and the discussion of his greatness began in earnest. Our own wikipedia article states this, does anyone else know why generally there are only considered 2 (Gregory and Leo)? (User:GreetingsEarthling, although I am not logged in) User:136.242.24.150 04:05, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:If no one has any objections, then, I'll change the article to reflect that Nicholas I is considered "The Great" and so therefore JPII, if he achieves that titles, will be the fourth.User:GreetingsEarthling 06:28, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I would support this with a credible source/reference provided. It is through popular and consistent use of the word great that popes eventually become Great. --User:Eleassar777 06:33, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:[http://catholicherald.com/saunders/05ws/ws050414.htm This] is by a priest I know and respect. He makes no mention of Nicholas I. Before I change this article back, however, I would like to know why the Wikipedia Nicholas I entry lists him as "Great", since that is what this article should go by. User:GreetingsEarthling 06:57, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
With all respect, this author does not mention Saint Nicholas. I would suppose that to be relevant he should either confirm or deny the fact that Saint Nicholas is called the Great, which is what some people believe. I have found several online sources listing Saint Nicholas as Nicholas the Great:
*[http://www.archindy.org/criterion/national/04-04-bishops.htm The Criterion online edition] - the opinion of bishop Thomas G. Doran
*[ftp://members.aol.com/kcc1tim/nicholas.txt Nicholas.txt] - should be copied in a text browser
*[http://directory.google.com/Top/Society/Religion_and_Spirituality/Christianity/People/Saints/N/Saint_Nicholas_I/ Google directory]
*[http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/6461/9cent.html 9cent.html]
Using the phrase "Nicholas the Great", there are many other web pages offered by Google. I don't know what is true, but it is evident that at least some people believe that Nicholas I was "the Great" too. This should be further verified in printed sources. --User:Eleassar777 13:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:Well, to be fair, the article I linked to says, "Two popes have had the title, 'the Great' appended to their name", thus implicitly excluding Nicholas I (the author could hardly have listed every Pope who does not deserve the title!). That having been said, though, enough people seem to consider Nicholas I "Great" that he ought to be included, IMHO. User:GreetingsEarthling 22:14, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
To note, the Catholic Encyclopedia does not call him the great, but the 11th edition of Britannica does. User:John Kenney User_talk:John Kenney 14:54, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:Interestingly enough, that's not quite right. The Catholic Encyclopedia [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11054a.htm article] on him does not call him "Nicholas the Great", just "one of the great popes of the Middle Ages", but the [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm complete listing of popes] does call him "St. Nicholas I (the Great)". (He's #106, for quick reference). User:GreetingsEarthling 22:29, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Pope Benedict XVI has referred to him as "the Great" in public, and the Cardinals were reffering to him as "Magnus" in the conclave. Since the new pope says it, it must be. '' Papa Facit. ''
--User:64.135.173.5 01:59, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
That's garbage. He wasn't speaking ''ex cathedra'' on matters of faith. User:John Kenney User_talk:John Kenney 02:11, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
==Article too long==
I think that each section should be short with a longer version in separate articles, the same way we do it with countries' articles, because this one is becomming way too long and with too many sections. What do you think?User:Cjrs 79 17:15, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)
:I would support this, however don't have time to participate actively to such a degree. --User:Eleassar777 20:12, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:In principle, I agree, but I personally would wait until the frequency of edits drops somewhere much below the current ~500 edits/week, especially given the section edit/page duplication bug. User:Niteowlneils 01:53, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:I disagree with breaking up articles of this size, but I seem to be distinctly in the minority on this question. When a unified topic (like one guy's life) is sliced up I always get the feeling I may have missed something essential because perhaps I didn't click every single link. If it's all in one big article I know everything is right in front of me... I don't think we should worry about length until about 75k. Oh well if I have the energy maybe I'll try to kick off a definitive debate about this, with vote (unless it's been done?). User:JDG 04:51, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
== recent edits regarding election of John Paul II ==
Does anyone really have a reliable source about how he came to be elected. I'm refering to this section: ''Voting in the second conclave was divided between two particularly strong candidates: Giuseppe Cardinal Siri, the Archbishop of Genoa, and Giovanni Cardinal Benelli, the Archbishop of Florence and a close associate of Pope John Paul I. In early ballots, Benelli came within nine votes of victory. However Wojtyła secured election as a compromise candidate, in part through the support of Franz Cardinal König and others who had previously supported Giuseppe Cardinal Siri.'' which (as of now) is in the main article. I read that, and I say to myself, how could anyone really know if that is true or not, unless one of the cardinals openly broke his vow to keep the conclave secret. User:Mpearl 01:36, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)
== A concern about opening paragraphs ==
This is generally a fine article, but I wonder if the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs, if left unbalanced, are the best way to represent JPII's overall approach to the world through his papacy. These paragraphs have long lists of the things opposed or criticized by JPII and no mention of any positive impulses or motivations. I suppose it is more difficult to express these in a standard expository way, as it is awkward to write something like "he was in favor of love between people and nations". But an attempt should be made... I would also include a section on his writings beyond the existing list of his publications. In particular, his activity as a philosopher and as a poet would merit notice quite apart from his involvement with the church (the publication list itself needs work-- for instance it gives the impression his first book of verse came out in 1994 while there was a worldwide printing in all major languages of his early poems well before 1980). User:JDG 16:54, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
== Spoke out against oppression? Not really. ==
How much sense does it make to list the ideologies and political movements that John Paul II denounced? Too many of them contradict each other, like racism, Communism, poverty, feminism, and oppression. The last time I looked, Communism and feminism were developed to fight oppression, especially poverty. Plus, JP II's sexist, stereotypical views on women negate whatever "commitment" he expressed toward fighting global oppression. It's the global oppression of women that facilitates the misery most humans experience.
The contradiction of the Pope's (and the Vatican's) positions on gender really need to be explored more seriously. I am limited when it comes to an in-depth knowledge of Catholicism, thus I wouldn't really wouldn't know where to start any argument from. But I know there are Catholic Church experts out there that are also wise about gender and sexual oppression---I know there is. Y'all folks need to speak up. --User:Pinko1977 06:03, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:Probably you should correct your admitted lack of "knowledge of Catholicism" before getting on a soapbox about it. Your statements don't hang together very well. It's true, for instance, that Marxism fancied itself developed to fight oppression. The Catholic Church from the beginning of Marxism predicted that any ideology built upon a rejection of God would, despite all rhetoric, become oppressive itself. The 8 million+ who died unnatural deaths under Stalin alone argue for the truth of the Church's prediction... As for things like feminism, modern feminism has likewise built into itself tenets the Church could hardly be expected to like, such as deep loathing for all "patriarchal power structures". Yo Pinko-- the Church *is* a patriarchal power structure. You expect it to negate itself? No, feminism will have to battle those it denounces and I know where I'd put my chips on this one.... User:JDG 06:30, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
::Wojtyla's active crackdown of liberation theology speaks volumes to his commitment to opressed peoples. Not to mention his lack of criticism of the brutal dictatorships of Chile and Argentina. — User:Miguel 09:55, 2005 Apr 19
(UTC)
:::Just wanted to remind that in the period of Stalin communism was not reached - that was only a "transitory period". --User:Eleassar777 13:34, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
JDG, please explain how my arguments "don't hold together well" before you attack them. I admitted I don't know much about the RCC, so I suggested that people who do advance this argument, which is exactly what the people who responded after you did. By the way, I know full well that feminism views the Church as a patriarchal institution, thank you for clarifying. As a Marxist and a feminist, I should know that. --User:Pinko1977 21:20, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:Right, so here's your logic: blue is a very nice color; mass murderer X wears blue shirts very often; how on earth could this Church and its popes oppose MMX? User:JDG 08:05, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It is important to define whether Pope John Paul II opposed to communism as a social and economic system, to communism as an ideology, to communism as a political movement that wants to implement the system or to all of them.
If he opposed to communism as the social and economic system, that would mean that he opposed to the only system in which there is no poverty. I can not understand how this would be possible, as no such system exists anywhere in the world. Therefore the Pope was only able to fight against communism as an ideology (a set of ideas) and to its political movements.
If the system would exist, the Pope would contradict himself in his fight against both the communism and poverty at the same time. As it does not, everything depends on whether this ideology can possibly be realized. If this is not so, he fought against the ideology which cannot be realized and he does not contradict himself. If this ideology is realizable, he contradicts himself.
Therefore, I suggest that the article states: As believed by such-and-such people (who do not believe communism is realizable) Pope John Paul II fought against the ideology of communism and its political movements, but at the same time also against poverty, although relatively ineffectively. Others believe that he contradicted himself this way, as the realization of communism would mean that the only system, in which there is no poverty, is attained. --User:Eleassar777 15:08, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Leaving aside the ideologies he opposed, what about In many ways, he fought against oppression, secularism and poverty? What does "in many ways" mean? I doubt many people apart from his supporters would see it like that. Can anyone name, say, three practical things JP2 did to make a real difference to poverty? This is not an attempt to stir up more controversy but a genuine request for information, as the above reads like a pretty partial statement with perhaps a bolted-on attempt to tone it down ("in many ways") that doesn't quite make sense. Clearly any pontiff is going to be opposed to these obvious evils but I think unless something can be added to justify this statement it should be removed. User:Flapdragon 10:01, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:I remember that together with Bono from U2 (band) he fought to get the debts of 23 underdeveloped countries cancelled and succeeded. I also know that Church helps people in underdeveloped countries very much both with material and psychological support. At the other side, I believe he would made a deeper impact, if he had not opposed the use of birth control. Therefore, I think that the sentence you mention should not be removed, but made more specific.
:Another thing, I have found something interesting on [http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20050406T200000-0500_78226_OBS_POPE_JOHN_PAUL_II.asp this web page]: "Many have stated that John Paul fought against liberation theology. I suspect that most who say that did not ever read the speech made by Pope John Paul 11 in Pueblo, Mexico, in 1979, which was the first of his 129 papal visits. But as usual those that know the least have the most talk!
:What he said was that the church did not need any political philosophy or ideology to be on the side of the poor, because this was already stated in the gospels. What the Pope did was to make the gospel the centre of liberation theology which was further manifested in his first two encyclicals Redemptoris Homini (Redeemer of Man) and Laborem Exercens (On Human Labour)."
:Can anyone comment this?
Well, I lived in a communist country and I know that communism is bad. Any system which deprives people of the fruits of their work is bad, because it leads to people not wanting to work. As the saying in Poland went: "This belongs to everyone, that is to no one". Lack of respect of private ownership depravated human souls. Communism is a system in which everyone is poor, so everyone is equal.
:I mainly agree. Especially when you say that people do not want to work anymore. I also lived in a socialist state and know this. Otherwise, I don't know why everbody would be poor - poor is defined relatively to rich. If there are no rich men, nobody can be poor. Nonetheless, don't forget that communism is seen as an utopia by the majority of people. By the way, did you notice that Wikipedia is similar to communism in some elements? There is/was even a page about this - I just don't know anymore where it is located. --User:Eleassar777 11:49, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
::Well, you may always compare people to history. If in one country there are lacks of shoes and food, and they once have had shoes and food, then we may conclude that, althoutgh is everyone equal, everyone is equally poor (in comparison to historical experience). Wikipedia similar to communism? How? You may also argue that wikipedia is prime example of extreme right - libertarianism :) User:Szopen 15:12, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
As for feminism, well, one can be against aggressive feminism and still being for equal treatment of woman and man. I see no contradiction in here. Feminist argues for state-regulated relationship between man and woman and argues that man and woman are totally equal. Non-feminist argues that man and woman are not the same, that they are both valuable for society and their role in society is uncomparable, and equal respect is needed and equal rights (but not privileges) for both sexes. User:Szopen 07:44, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
==His Holiness==
Is there any reason why JPIIs official title, 'His Holiness' has been removed? User:DJ Clayworth 18:25, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Someone claimed that he lost it after he died. I wouldn't know about this. --User:Eleassar777 21:45, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I am opposed to the use of Style (manner of address) in articles, but was outvoted (though maybe it should be revisited). But current policy dictates that he should be ''His Holiness'' whether alive or dead. Fear''ÉIREANN''">User:Jtdirl 23:39, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It is a title that can only apply to the living pontiff, not the dead. User:Rangeley 06:02, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Indeed. No dead person has a style, to the best of my knowledge - at least, I have seen not seen ANY dead person with a style on Wikipedia. Of course, I disagree that live people should have them, but dead people certainly should not - I've never heard someone refer to a dead person as "His Excellency". User:Titanium Dragon 01:30, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:I don't believe that at all. I think it's usual to retain a title on death. George VI is formally known as His Late Majesty, and his queen Her Late Majesty. Where do you get the idea that a style ceases on death? It seems a strange idea to me, to respect someone when they're alive and then reverse that term of respect on death, User:Jguk 09:24, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
If we were writing a history of the current pope, Big Ben, then there would be some point in not using the style for earlier pontiffs. But each article here is a self-contained biography. It is standard in such circumstances to outline what was their style in the office. Hence the logical use of ''His Holiness'' for all past popes, ''His/Her Majesty'' for past monarchs, HRH/HIRM/HSH etc for past holders of those styles. It is perfectly standard form. Fear''ÉIREANN''">User:Jtdirl 01:29, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
*Though the person might be dead, we still give them a title. We still call Diana Princess, Reagan President, Rainier Prince, Brezhnev Premier, etc. User:Zscout370 01:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:Don't forget about John Paul II ''Pope''. ;) --User:Eleassar777 09:06, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
::Wouldn't those be honorifics or titles rather than styles? No deceased monarchs/popes used to have them, but they all have Pope/Prince/whatever. There's a difference. User:Titanium Dragon 11:14, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
All popes even after death retain the the title his holiness. However, a cause for beatification for Wojtyla will be opened in July. Until that date, his title will be Servant of God. When the proccess starts he willbe Venerable, and when if he is beatified he will be Blessed. User:Coburnpharr04 04:20, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
:Correction. The process started, as declared by Pope Benedict XVI, and that is the reason why he is called Servant of God now. (The Church used to give the title of Venerable when they started the process; now they don't. It's a totally separate phase of canonization apart from being called Servant of God, these days.) When a declaration of heroicity is promulgated (a legal document of the Church), then he will receive the title of Venerable. After a few miracles attributed to him are made official, he will be beatified and receive the title of Blessed. After more miracles are made official he will then be canonized. It's all set in canon law. --User:Gerald Farinas 04:33, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
==Pictures==
commons:Johannes Paulus II has some new free pictures of John Paul II. Wouldn't it be good to replace some of the fair use images here with some free ones from Commons? I know that fair use is ok at en:, but free pics should in my opinion be used where available. User:Ausir 08:41, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
== Question ==
Do you think this image can be used here somewhere? User:Zscout370 21:45, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:How about Ring of the Fisherman? User:Pmadrid 20:40, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
Is it right to say in the begining of the article that he was Pope of the Roman Catholic Church since he was also Pope of the Eastern Rite Churches? Wouldn't it be better to say Pope of the Catholic Church?
:Roman Catholic Church includes the Eastern Rite churches. The Pope is Patriarch of the Latin Church, which with the Eastern Rite churches makes up the Roman Catholic Church. User:Pmadrid 20:40, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
== What About Mary? ==
It's my understanding as a non-Catholic that the Pope venerated Mary to such a degree that he called out to her in a crisis (such as the assassination attempt), not to God, and planned to proclaim her Co-Redeemer with Christ -- a "God the Mother," if you will. This would fit the logical grid, but would have created yet another aspect of a godhead already split in three. According to Newsweek, his advisors had to plead long and hard with him not to take this step, because so many popes since the Reformation have used Mary as an in-your-face use of Catholic power to irritate Protestants. That was not his intent, of course. Anyone knowledgeable in what I thought was THE agenda closest to John Paul's heart? (Note the big M on his crest.)
User:YankeeInCA 00:59, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:The Pope surely was an admirer of Mary and I can believe he was planning to proclaim her co-Redemtrix ("the Mother Suffering"), Mediatrix ("the Mother Nourishing"), and Advocate ("the Mother Interceding")... This is not a new doctrine - just it wasn't proclaimed ''ex cathedra''. However, I won't believe that he planned to proclaim her "God the Mother" as long as I don't read it printed in several recognized journals I respect and books written in NPOV.
:I have found some links online using Google (the phrase: ''mary co-redeemer newsweek''). Here I post three of them, each with its own understanding.
*[http://religion-cults.com/mary/coredeemer.htm Mary Co-redeemer, Mediator and Advocate]
*[http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/mary.htm A critical commentary]
*[http://www.religioustolerance.org/mary_cor.htm From ReligiousTolerance.org]
The controversy of this issue is apparent. However, the Pope was not stupid - he was an excellent theologian and philosopher and co-operated significantly with Mr Ratzinger. I can't imagine that his wish was to create another God, neither deliberately and even more unlikely, by accident. My personal opinion is that his agenda is most closely explained in the article accessible through the first link. --User:Eleassar777 09:04, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thank you. Part of the strength of the Church has been playing the role, if you will, of angels rushing in where fools fear to tread. One of the articles you cite mentions fear of alienating Anglicans, yet my Anglican (Episcopalian) mother recently joined a secret Marian sisterhood, a surprising about-face for a Massachusetts Yankee to say the least. The lack a female aspect of God in the Abrahamic faiths (in order of revelation: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the Protestant sects) is a grave weakness, and only the Catholic Church has had the balls (so to speak) to face the problem. User:YankeeInCA 06:54, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Mary has been always strongly worshipped in Poland. She was even declared queen of Poland, you know. Her "holy portrait" in czestochowa each year brings thousands and thousands of pilgrimes. User:Szopen 07:40, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
:Couldn't help commenting on an aside here - "However, the Pope was not stupid - he was an excellent theologian and philosopher". No doubt he was an excellent theologian, but (speaking as someone with two philosophy degrees) popes don't make excellent philosophers. You won't find many modern-day professional philosophers who believe in God, because religions (particularly Christianity) are philosophically a joke. This is why God is typically relegated to a separate university subject, theology. User:Bfinn 12:22, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
== Latin Name ==
Hey. Ought we to put the name in Latin as ''Ioannes Paulus P.P. II'' (or something like that)? That's how it is in his signature, right? Just checking, not sure so I'm not going to change it. --User:Jenmoa 04:02, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
== My missing edit summary ==
I apologize, I accidently clicked save before writing an edit summary. I removed ''"On May 13 2005 Pope Benedict XVI started the process of beatification, the first step to making him a saint."'' because Pope Benedict XVI is still alive and is ineligible for sainthood. — ''oo64eva (Alex)'' (User: oo64eva | User_talk:Oo64eva | Special:Contributions/Oo64eva) @ 09:25, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
:Okay I see what this contributor intended. I will make it clearer. — ''oo64eva (Alex)'' (User: oo64eva | User_talk:Oo64eva | Special:Contributions/Oo64eva) @ 09:26, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
== Sainthood criteria? ==
"Throughout his papacy, John Paul II generated billions of dollars in income for the Catholic Church, and is therefore being strongly considered for sainthood."
Understandably I was a bit confused when I read this. From my understanding of the Catholic Church, I was under the opinion that sainthood was conferred for being a good person, inspiring the faithful, and comitting what would be considered by the faithful as miracles - not from dollars and cents. This appears to suggest that the primary reason that the late Pope was being considered for sainthood would be the fact that he had brought a lot of money to the Church, and strikes me as being at least slightly POV or perhaps in poor taste.
== St Peter POV ==
I'm concerned about POV in the article regarding the "pontificate" of St Peter. First, Protestant and Orthodox Christians don't accept that Peter was Pope at all. Second, secular history really does not support the idea that the Bishops of Rome claimed supremacy over the western church until the fifth century or so. A while ago, I modified the article to say that JPII was the second-longest reigning pope, after Pius IX and said, parenthetically, that Catholics consider St. Peter to be the first pope and ergo, JP II would be considered the 3rd longest reigning pope in that view. To blithely say that he is the "3rd longest reigning Pope" without caveat, is taking for granted a sectarian and un-proven assertion and passing it off as fact. Shouldn't a commitment to neutrality require us to rely on secular history? User:Sumergocognito 00:17, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
St Peter as Pope isn't POV. The orthodox would agree with the catholic view, the difference is only about the extent of the pope's authority. Even protestants might agree that Peter was what the Church calls the Pope, they'd rather argue that his successors aren't really successors. According to your reasoning you should protest that JP was pope, was head of the Church etc. Peter is always heading the list of Popes, that's part of the office. There's no such thing as secular history - only history! And history does not say what you would have her. The petrine tradition at Rome and claims of primacy (again, the content is disputed between Rome and Constantinople) are very early.
User:Str1977 20:38, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
While Peter may have been Bishop of Rome (and certainly is traditionally considered the first Bishop of Rome), he was certainly not "pope" - I agree he heads the list of Popes, but given that he was not called "Pope" as a formal title, and given that the Bishop of Rome had no primacy until the 4th century, maybe, it seems awkward to just call him "Pope." In terms of the issue of long-reigning popes, this seems problematic for another reason - for popes from, I don't know, the 3rd century on, we have a fairly good sense of length of reign. Before that, there's no real evidence. Peter's reign is entirely based on tradition, and he may not have even ever been to Rome, for all we really know. As such, it seems problematic to put the length of his reign in the same category as that of Pius IX, of whom we have meticulous historical records which would, I imagine, allow us to measure his papacy to the hour. Some sort of clarification seems in order here. User:John Kenney User_talk:John Kenney 03:52, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
:You have a point when you say that the term ‘Pope’ or ‘papa’ was not recorded in the early years, at least until Damasus (366-384) or Siricius (384-399). However, I suggest, it is still valid to use the term Pope for that early Bishops of Rome because it has been used since antiquity. The Crypt of the Popes in the Catacombs of Saint Callixtus has provided us with information on the early Popes. These catacombs were abandoned, looted and collapsed after the barbarian invasions. They remained undisturbed until excavations by archaeologists 1850 onwards. A marble dedicatory slab by Damasus (366-384) contains the line “Here lie the brotherhood of Popes”. 9 Popes appear to have been buried there, although only six inscriptions survive. There are five original sepulchral inscriptions. The earliest being for Pontianus (230-235). So here we have a Pope, Damasus, using the term "Pope" to refer to other Popes back to, at least 235. Therefore, I suggest that the term "Pope" has a sufficiently long history for us to use it here. (source: ‘The Catacombs of St, Callixtus’ isbn 88-209-1902-8 ) (plus I was there) --User:ClemMcGann 10:36, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
::It would seem correct then to refer to Damasus as pope if there is credible evidence that he, in life, claimed the papal title. However, it is problematic to base our assumptions about the church's earliest period on the claims of subsequent generations. Popes do, arguably, have a vested interest in attributing titles to their predecessors, particularly if these titles are innovations. It seems wisest to me to rely on contemporary sources to determine if a title is accurate. Is a fourth century pope contemporary to St. Peter? Thank you though, for adding this information. User:Sumergocognito 18:16, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
:It is not true that the Orthodox consider St. Peter the first bishop of Rome, so there's no "certainly" about it. He was an Apostle, an office distinct from that of bishop even though the bishops are their successors. (Which is to say, that a bishop is not an Apostle. It's certainly possible for an Apostle to have been a bishop. The claim is that this is not true in this case.) In Orthodox tradition the first bishop of Rome is St. Linus. See for example [https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0007b&L=orthodox&F=&S=&P=3198 this post] by an Orthodox bishop on the subject. Furthermore, Eusebius is quite clear on the joint founding of the Roman community by both Peter and Paul and claims a similar foundation for the Church of Antioch.
:So Peter is not the first Pope of Rome, not so much because we can't definitively document the use of the title at that time (I concede that it may well have been used from the beginning) but becuase he simp
Pope John Paul II
The Servant of God Pope John Paul II (Ecclesiastical Latin: ''Ioannes Paulus P.P. II''), born Karol Józef Wojtyła (May 18, 1920–April 2, 2005), reigned as pope of the Roman Catholic Church and sovereign of Vatican City for almost 27 years, from 16 October 1978 until his death in 2005. On 13 May 2005 Pope Benedict XVI, John Paul II's successor, waived the five year waiting period for a cause for beatification to be opened. The official process for beatification will begin on June 28, 2005. [http://opportunities.typepad.com/news/2005/06/pope_john_paul_.html] The first non-Italian people to serve in office since the Dutch people-German people Pope Adrian VI died in 1523, John Paul II's reign was the List of 10 longest-reigning popes in the history of the Papacy, after those of Saint Peter (approximately 35 years) and Pope Pius IX (31 years). This is in a distinctive contrast with that of his predecessor Pope John Paul I, who died suddenly after only 33 days in office, and in whose memory John Paul II named himself. Pope John Paul II's reign was marked by a continuing decline of Catholicism in developed country but expansion in the Third World. In addition, John Paul II advocated conservative values in the Roman Catholic Church, opposing gay marriage and abortion, among a host of other issues; however, the Pontiff voiced support for the theory of evolution. During his reign, the pope travelled extensively, visiting over 100 countries and all continents. His health deteriorated in the late 1990s, as he was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease. On 2 April 2005, two months after receiving a tracheotomy, Pope John Paul II passed away. ==Overview== The man from Poland will be remembered as the "people's Pope." He is respected around the world by both Christians and non-Christians. There is a John Paul II Foundation which has many offices around the world. The headquarters is located in Rome in the Polish House. His papacy is remembered by his tireless ecumenical approach to accommodate other Chritian sects as well as to forge a better understanding with the Islamic world. At his funeral, many non-Chritian faiths were represented including representatives from Isalm and Bhuddism. John Paul II emphasized what he called the "universal call to holiness" and attempted to define the Catholic Church's role in the modern world. He spoke out against ideologies and politics of communism, feminism, imperialism, relativism, materialism, fascism (including nazism), racism and unrestrained capitalism. In many ways, he fought against oppression, secularism and poverty. Although he was on friendly terms with many Western world heads of state and leading citizens, he reserved a special opprobrium for what he believed to be the corrosive spiritual effects of modern Western consumerism and the concomitant widespread secular and hedonistic orientation of Western populations. John Paul II affirmed traditional Catholic teachings by opposing abortion, contraception, capital punishment, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning, euthanasia, war, but accepting evolution. He also defended traditional teachings on marriage and gender roles by opposing divorce, same-sex marriage and the ordination of women. His conservative views were sometimes criticized as regressive. John Paul II called upon Catholics to vote according to their beliefs, even if they were based on their religion, and suggested that politicians who strayed be denied the Eucharist. John Paul II became known as the "Pilgrim Pope" for traveling greater distances than had all his predecessors combined. According to John Paul II, the trips symbolized bridge-building efforts (in keeping with his title as Pontifex Maximus, literally Master Bridge-Builder) between nations and religions, attempting to remove divisions created through history. He beatified 1,340 people, more people than any previous pope. The Vatican asserts he canonized more people than the combined tally of his predecessors during the last five centuries, and from a far greater variety of cultures. Whether he had canonized more saints than all previous popes put together, as is sometimes also claimed, is difficult to prove, as the records of many early canonizations are incomplete, missing, or inaccurate. However, it is known that his abolition of the office of ''Promotor Fidei'' ("Promoter of the Faith" and the origin of the term Devil's Advocate) streamlined the process. Pope John Paul II died on 2 April 2005 after a long fight against Parkinson's disease and other illnesses. Immediately after his death, many of his followers demanded that he be elevated to sainthood as soon as possible, shouting "Santo Subito". Both ''L'Osservatore Romano'' and Pope Benedict XVI, Pope John Paul II's successor, referred to John Paul II as "Great". John Paul II was succeeded by the Dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Pope Benedict XVI of Germany, the former head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith who had led the funeral mass for John Paul II. == Biography == ===Early life=== Karol Józef Wojtyła was born on 18 May 1920 in Wadowice in southern Poland. His mother died in 1929, and his father supported him so that he could study. His youth was marked by intensive contacts with the then thriving Jewish community of Wadowice. Karol enrolled at the Jagiellonian University in Kraków. He worked as a volunteer librarian and did compulsory military training in the Academic Legion. In his youth he was an athletics, acting and playwright and he learned as many as eleven languages. During the Second World War academics of the Jagiellonian University were arrested and the university suppressed. All able-bodied males had to have a job. He variously worked as a messenger for a restaurant and a manual laborer in a limestone quarry. ===Church career=== [[Image:Pjp2b.jpg|thumb|215px|right|Pope Paul VI greets Karol Cardinal Wojtyła.]] [[Image:JP1meetsJP2.jpg|thumb|right|215px|Pope John Paul I greets Karol Cardinal Wojtyła.]] In 1942 he entered the Underground education in Poland during World War II run by the Archbishop of Kraków, Adam Stefan Cardinal Sapieha. Karol Wojtyła was ordination a priest on 1 November 1946. On 4 July 1958 Pope Pius XII named him titular bishop of Ombi and auxiliary to Archbishop Baziak, apostolic administrator of the Archdiocese of Kraków. Karol Wojtyła found himself at 38 the youngest bishop in Poland. In 1962 Bishop Wojtyła took part in the Second Vatican Council, and in December 1963 Pope Paul VI appointed him Archbishop of Kraków. Paul VI elevated him to Cardinal (Catholicism) in 1967. ===A Pope from Poland=== In August 1978 following Paul's death, he voted in the Papal election that elected Pope John Paul I, who at 65 was considered young by papal standards. However John Paul I was in poor health and he died after only 33 days as pope, thereby precipitating another conclave. Voting in the second conclave was divided between two particularly strong candidates: Giuseppe Cardinal Siri, the Archbishop of Genoa; and Giovanni Cardinal Benelli, the Archbishop of Florence and a close associate of Pope John Paul I. In early ballots, Benelli came within nine votes of victory. However Wojtyła secured election as a compromise candidate, in part through the support of Franz Cardinal König and others who had previously supported Cardinal Siri. He became the 264th Pope according to the Vatican (265th according to sources that count Pope Stephen II). At only 58 years of age, he was the youngest pope elected since Pope Pius IX in 1846. Like his immediate predecessor, Pope John Paul II dispensed with the traditional Papal coronation and instead received ecclesiastical investiture with the simplified Papal inauguration. === Assassination attempts === On 13 May 1981 John Paul II was shot and critically wounded by Mehmet Ali Agca, a Turkish people gunman, as he entered Saint Peter's Square to address an audience. Ağca was eventually sentenced to life imprisonment. Two days after Christmas 1983, John Paul II visited the prison where his would-be assassin was being held. The two spoke privately for some time. John Paul II said, "What we talked about will have to remain a secret between him and me. I spoke to him as a brother whom I have pardoned and who has my complete trust." Another assassination attempt took place on 12 May 1982 in Fatima, Portugal when a man tried to stab John Paul II with a bayonet, but was stopped by security guards. The assailant, an ultraconservative Spanish priest named Juan María Fernández y Krohn, reportedly opposed the reforms of the Second Vatican Council and called the pope an agent of Moscow. He served a six-year sentence, and was expelled from Portugal afterwards. === Health === When he first entered the papacy in 1978, John Paul II was an avid sportsman, enjoying hiking and swimming. In addition, John Paul II travelled extensively after becoming pope; at the time, the 58-year old was extremely healthy and active. In 1981, though, John Paul II's health suffered a major blow after a failed assassination attempt. The bullet-wound caused severe bleeding, and the Pope's blood pressure dropped. In addition, a colostomy was also performed. In the late 1990s, John Paul II began to suffer from slurred speech and difficulty in hearing. In addition, the Pope rarely walked in public. Though not officially confirmed by the Vatican until 2003, most experts agreed that the frail pontiff suffered from Parkinson's Disease. In February 2005 John Paul II was taken to the hospital with an inflammation of the larynx, the result of influenza. Though later released from the hospital, he was taken back later that month after difficulty breathing. A tracheotomy was performed, limiting the pope's speaking abilities. In March of 2005, speculation was high that the Pope was near-death; this was confirmed by the Vatican days before John Paul II passed away. === Death === On 31 March 2005 the Pope developed a very high fever, but was neither rushed to the hospital, nor offered life support, apparently in accordance with his wishes to die in the Vatican. Later that day Vatican sources announced that John Paul II had been given the Anointing of the Sick. During the final days of the Pope's life, the lights were kept burning through the night where he lay in the Papal apartment on the top floor of the Apostolic Palace. Thousands of people rushed to the Vatican, filling St Peter's Square and beyond, and held vigil for two days. He died in his private apartments, at 21:37 CEST (19:37 UTC) on 2 April, 46 days short of his 85th birthday. A crowd of over two million within Vatican City, over one billion Catholics world-wide, and many non-Catholics mourned John Paul II. The Poles were particularly devastated by his death. The public viewing of his body in St. Peter's Basilica drew over four million people to Vatican City and was one of the largest pilgrimages in the history of Christianity. Many world leaders expressed their condolences and ordered flags in their countries lowered to half-mast. Numerous countries with a Catholic majority, and even some with only a small Catholic population, declared mourning for John Paul II. ==== Funeral ==== [[Image:jp2crowdstoseepope.jpg |thumb|300px|right|©Associated Press
Two million people reportedly viewed Pope John Paul II's body lying in state.]] The death of Pope John Paul II set into motion rituals and traditions dating back to medieval times. The Rite of Visitation took place from 4 April and extended through the morning of 8 April at St. Peter's Basilica. So many people came to see him in state that the line had to be cut off with many people still waiting. On 8 April the Mass of Requiem was conducted by the Dean of the College of Cardinals, Pope Benedict XVI, who would become the next pope. It has been estimated to have been the largest attended funeral of all time. John Paul II was interred in the grottoes under the basilica, the Tomb of the Popes. He was lowered into the tomb that had been occupied by the remains of Pope John XXIII, but which had been empty since his remains had been moved into the main body of the basilica after his beatification by John Paul II in 2003. ==== John Paul "The Great" ==== Since the death of John Paul II, a number of clergy at the Vatican have been referring to the late pontiff as "John Paul the Great"—only the fourth pope to be so acclaimed, and the first since the first millennium. His successor, Pope Benedict XVI, referred to him as "the great Pope John Paul II" in his first address from the loggia of St Peter's Church. The Italian newspaper ''Corriere della Sera'' even called him "the Greatest". Scholars of canon law say that there is no official process for declaring a pope "Great"; the title establishes itself through popular, and continued, usage. The three popes who today commonly are known as "Great" are Pope Leo I, who reigned from 440–461 and persuaded Attila the Hun to withdraw from Rome; Pope Gregory I, 590–604, after whom the Gregorian Chant is named; and Pope Nicholas I, 858–867, who also withstood a siege of Rome (in this case from Carolingian Christians, over a dispute regarding marriage annulment). ====Beatification==== On 13 May 2005 Benedict XVI made his first promulgation of the beatification process choosing to honour his predecessor, John Paul II. Normally five years pass before the beatification process begins for a person after his or her death but due to the popularity of John Paul II—devotees chanted "Santo subito!" ("Saint now!") during the late pontiff's funeral—Benedict XVI waived the custom and officially styled the late pope with the title given to all those being scrutinized in the beatification process, Servant of God. Upon the confirmation after scrutiny that the late pontiff's life is found morally clean and manifest heroic virtues, a decree will be proclaimed and John Paul II will be declared ''Venerable'' on the road to beatification. Before changes in canon law in 1917, the title ''Venerable'' was given at the same time a person was declared ''Servant of God''. Today, the titles are separate. Upon the confirmation of miracles attributed to the honoree, John Paul II would then be declared ''Blessed''. A person is strictly prohibited from being officially celebrated in Mass until he or she achieves the title of ''Blessed''. ==Life's work== ===Teachings=== As pope, John Paul II's most important role was to teach people about Roman Catholic Christianity. He wrote a number of important documents that many observers believe will have long-lasting influence on the Church. A notable achievement of John Paul II was the publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which became an international bestseller. Its purpose, according to the Pope's Apostolic Constitution ''Fidei Depositum'' was to be "a statement of the Church's faith and of Catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church's Magisterium." His first encyclical letters focused on the Triune God; the very first was on Jesus the Redeemer (''"Redemptor Hominis"''). Blessed_Virgin_Mary,_Jesus'_mother.">Image:Giovannipaolo 2arms.jpg|thumb|150px|left|Coat of Arms of Pope John Paul II
The letter M is for Blessed Virgin Mary, Jesus' mother. In his Apostolic Letter ''At the beginning of the third millennium'' (''Novo Millennio Ineunte''), a "program for all times" he emphasized the importance of "starting afresh from Christ": "No, we shall not be saved by a formula but by a Person." In ''The Splendor of the Truth'' (''Veritatis Splendor'') he emphasized the dependence of man on God and his law ("Without the Creator, the creature disappears") and the "dependence of freedom on the truth". He warned that man "giving himself over to relativism and skepticism, goes off in search of an illusory freedom apart from truth itself". John Paul II also wrote extensively about workers and the social doctrine of the Church, which he discussed in three encyclicals. Through his encyclicals, John Paul also talked about the dignity of women and the importance of the family for the future of mankind. Other important documents include ''The Gospel of Life'' (''Evangelium Vitae''), ''Faith and Reason'' (''Fides et Ratio''), and ''Orientale Lumen'' (''Light of the East''). John Paul II was also considered by some to have halted the progressive efforts of Second Vatican Council, becoming a standard-bearer for the conservative side of the Catholic Church. He continued his staunch opposition to contraception methods, abortion and homosexuality. John Paul II, as a writer of philosophical and theology thought, was characterised by his explorations in phenomenology. He is also known for his development of the theology of the body. === Pastoral trips === During his pontificate, Pope John Paul II made over 100 foreign trips, more than all previous popes put together. In total he logged more than 1.1 million km (725,000 miles). He consistently attracted large crowds on his travels, some amongst the largest ever assembled in human history. While some of his trips (such as to the United States and the Holy Land) were to places previously visited by Pope Paul VI (the first pope to travel widely), many others were to places that no pope had ever visited before. All these travels were paid by the money of the countries he visited and not by the Vatican. One of John Paul II's earliest official visits was to Poland, in June 1979. In 1982 he became the first reigning pope to travel to the United Kingdom, where he met Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom, the Supreme Governor of the Church of England of the Church of England. Throughout his trips, he stressed his devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary through visits to various shrines to the Virgin Mary, notably Knock in Ireland, Fátima, Portugal in Portugal, Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico and Lourdes in France. In 1984 John Paul II became the first Pope to visit Puerto Rico. On 15 January 1995 he offered mass to an estimated crowd of 4.5 million in Luneta Park, Manila, Philippines, the largest papal crowd ever. On 22 March 1998 he paid a second visit to Nigeria. Also in 1999 John Paul II made another of his multiple trips to the United States. In 2000 he became the first modern Catholic pope to visit Egypt, where he met with the Coptic Christianity and the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria. In May 2001 the Pontiff took a pilgrimage that would trace the steps of his co-namesake, Saint Paul, across the Mediterranean, from Greece to Syria to Malta. He was the first Roman Catholic Pope to visit and pray in an Islamic mosque, in Damascus, Syria. He visited Umayyad Mosque, where John the Baptist is believed to be interred. In September 2001 amid post-September 11, 2001 attacks concerns, he traveled to Kazakhstan, with an audience of largely Muslims, as well as Armenia, to participate in the celebration of the 1700 years of Christianity in that nation. === Relations with other religions === Pope John Paul II traveled extensively and came into contact with many divergent faiths. With these he ceaselessly attempted to find common ground, whether it be doctrinal or dogmatic. He made history with his establishment of contacts with Israel, praying at the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama, the 14th Dalai Lama and the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism, visited Pope John Paul II eight times, more than any other single dignitary. The Pope and the Dalai Lama often shared similar views and understood similar plights, both coming from peoples who have suffered under communism. In contrast, the Northern Irish Protestant leader Ian Paisley repeatedly accused John Paul II of being the Antichrist.
1920 births 2005 deaths Karlspreis laureates Polyglots Polish bishops Papal conclaves Pope John Paul II Popes Servants of God Presidential Medal of Freedom recipients ang:Pápa Iohannes Paulus II fur:Pape Zuan Pauli II hi:पोप जॉन पॉल la:Ioannes Paulus II lv:Pāvests Jānis Pāvils II li:Johannes Paulus II ms:Paus John Paul II zh-min-nan:Jio̍k-bōng Pó-lo̍k II mo:Иоан Паул ал Ⅱ-ля nds:Johannes Paul II. scn:Giuvanni Paulu II simple:Pope John Paul II th:สมเด็จพระสันตะปาปาจอห์น ปอลที่ 2 vi:Gioan Phaolô II
Pope John Paul II
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