PoetrY

#REDIRECT Poetry

Poetry

[[Image:Homer_British_Museum.jpg|thumb|right|Bust of Homer, one of the earliest European poets, in the British Museum]] Poetry (ancient Greek language: ''ποιεω'' (poieo) = I create) is an art form in which human language is used for its aesthetics qualities in addition to, or instead of, its meaning and semantics content. It consists largely of oral or literature works in which language is used in a manner that is felt by its user and audience to differ from ordinary prose. It may use condensed or compressed form to convey emotion or ideas to the reader's or listener's mind or ear; it may also use devices such as assonance and repetition to achieve musical or incantation effects. Poems frequently rely for their effect on imagery, word association, and the musical qualities of the language used. Because of its nature of emphasising linguistic form rather than using language purely for its content, poetry is notoriously difficult to Translation from one language into another: a possible exception to this might be the Hebrew language Psalms, where the beauty is found more in the balance of ideas than in specific vocabulary. In most poetry, it is the connotations and the "baggage" that words carry (the weight of words) that are most important. These shades and nuances of meaning can be difficult to interpret and can cause different readers to "hear" a particular piece of poetry differently. While there are reasonable interpretations, there can never be a definitive interpretation. ==Nature of poetry== Poetry can be differentiated most of the time from prose, which is language meant to convey meaning in a more expansive and less condensed way, frequently using more complete logical or narrative structures than poetry does. This does not necessarily imply that poetry is illogical, but rather that poetry is often created from the need to escape the logical, as well as expressing feelings and other expressions. A further complication is that prose poetry combines the characteristics of poetry with the superficial appearance of prose. And there is, of course, narrative poetry, not to mention dramatic poetry, both of which are used to tell stories and so resemble novels and theaters. However, both these forms of poetry use the specific features of verse composition to make these stories more memorable or to enhance them in some way. The Ancient Greek verb ποιέω [poi�ō (= I make or create)], gave rise to three words: ποιητής [poiētḗs (= the one who creates)], ποίησις [po�ēsis (= the act of creation)] and ποίημα [po�ēma (= the thing created)]. From these we get three English words: poet (the creator), poesy (the creation) and poem (the created). A poet is therefore one who creates and poetry is what the poet creates. The underlying concept of the poet as or creator is not uncommon. For example, in Anglo-Saxon a poet is a ''scop'' (shaper or maker) and in scots language ''makar''. ==Sound in poetry== Perhaps the most vital element of sound in poetry is rhythm. Often the rhythm of each line is arranged in a particular meter (poetry). Different types of meter played key roles in Classical, Early European, Eastern and Modern poetry. In the case of free verse, the rhythm of lines is often organized into looser units of cadence. Poetry in English and other modern European languages often uses rhyme. Rhyme at the end of lines is the basis of a number of common poetic forms, such as ballads, sonnets and couplets. However, the use of rhyme is not universal. Much Modernism poetry, for example, avoids traditional rhyme schemes. Furthermore, Classical Greek language and Latin poetry did not use rhyme. In fact, rhyme did not enter European poetry at all until the High Middle Ages, when it was adopted from the Arabic language. The Arabs have always used rhymes extensively, most notably in their long, rhyming qasida. Some classical poetry forms, such as Venpa of the Tamil language had rigid grammars (to the point that they could be expressed as a context-free grammar), which ensured a rhythm. Alliteration played a key role in structuring early Germanic and English forms of poetry (called alliterative verse), akin to the role of rhyme in later European poetry. The alliterative patterns of early Germanic poetry and the rhyme schemes of Modern European poetry alike both include meter as a key part of their structure, which determines when the listener expects instances of rhyme or alliteration to occur. In this sense, both alliteration and rhyme, when used in poetic structures, help to emphasize and define a rhythmic pattern. By contrast, the chief device of Biblical poetry in ancient Hebrew language was ''parallelism'', a rhetorical structure in which successive lines reflected each other in grammatical structure, sound structure, notional content, or all three; a verse form that lent itself to antiphonal or call and response (music) performance. In addition to the forms of rhyme, alliteration and rhythm that structure much poetry, sound plays a more subtle role in even free verse poetry in creating pleasing, varied patterns and emphasizing or sometimes even illustrating semantic elements of the poem. Devices such as alliteration, assonance, consonance, dissonance and internal rhyme are among the ways poets use sound. ==Poetry and form== Compared with prose, poetry depends less on the linguistic units of sentences and paragraphs, and more on units of organisation that are purely poetic. The typical structural elements are the line, couplet, strophe, stanza, and verse paragraph. Lines may be self-contained units of sense, as in the well-known lines from William Shakespeare's ''Hamlet'': :To be, or not to be: that is the question. Alternatively a line may end in mid-phrase or sentence: :Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer this linguistic unit is completed in the next line, :The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. This technique is called enjambement, and is used to create a sense of expectation in the reader and/or to add a dynamic to the movement of the verse. In many instances, the effectiveness of a poem derives from the tension between the use of linguistic and formal units. With the advent of printing, poets gained greater control over the visual presentation of their work. As a result, the use of these formal elements, and of the white space they help create, became an important part of the poet's toolbox. Modernist poetry tends to take this to an extreme, with the placement of individual lines or groups of lines on the page forming an integral part of the poem's composition. In its most extreme form, this leads to the writing of concrete poetry. ==Poetry and rhetoric== Rhetorical devices such as simile and metaphor are frequently used in poetry. Indeed, Aristotle wrote in his ''Poetics'' that "the greatest thing by far is to be a master of metaphor". However, particularly since the rise of Modernism, some poets have opted for reduced use of these devices, preferring rather to attempt the direct presentation of things and experiences. Other 20th century poets, however, particularly the surrealism, have pushed rhetorical devices to their limits, making frequent use of catachresis. == History of poetry == Poetry as an art form predates literacy. In pre-literate societies, poetry was frequently employed as a means of recording oral history, storytelling (epic poetry), genealogy, law and other forms of expression or knowledge that modern societies might expect to be handled in prose. The Ramayana, a Sanskrit epic which includes poetry, was probably written in the 3rd century BCE in a language described by William Jones as 'more perfect than Latin, more copious than Greek and more exquisitely refined than either.' Poetry is also often closely identified with liturgy in these societies, as the formal nature of poetry makes it easier to remember priestly incantations or prophecies. The greater part of the world's sacred scriptures are made up of poetry rather than prose. The use of verse to transmit cultural information continues today. Most English speakers know that "in 1492, Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue". An alphabet song teaches the names and order of the letters of the alphabet; another jingle states the lengths and names of the months in the Gregorian calendar. Pre-literate societies, lacking the means to write down important cultural information, use similar methods to preserve it. Some writers believe that poetry has its origins in song. Most of the characteristics that distinguish it from other forms of utterance - rhythm, rhyme, compression, intensity of feeling, the use of refrains - appear to have come about from efforts to fit words to musical forms. However, in the European tradition the earliest surviving poems, the Homeric and Hesiodic epics, identify themselves as poems to be recited or chanted to a musical accompaniment rather than as pure song. Another interpretation, developed from 20th century studies of living Montenegran epic reciters by Milman Parry and others, is that rhythm, refrains, and kennings are essentially parataxis devices that enable the reciter to reconstruct the poem from memory. [[Image:Walt Whitman edit 2.jpg|right|thumbnail|200px|Walt Whitman stood as a giant of 19th century Poetry of the United States.]] In preliterate societies, all these forms of poetry were composed for, and sometimes during, performance. As such, there was a certain degree of fluidity to the exact wording of poems, given this could change from one performance or performer to another. The introduction of writing tended to fix the content of a poem to the version that happened to be written down and survive. Written composition also meant that poets began to compose not for an audience that was sitting in front of them but for an absent reader. Later, the invention of printing tended to accelerate these trends. Poets were now writing more for the eye than for the ear. The development of literacy gave rise to more personal, shorter poems intended to be sung. These are called lyrics, which derives from the Greek ''lura'' or lyre, the instrument that was used to accompany the performance of Greek lyrics from about the seventh century B.C. onward. The Greek's practice of singing hymns in large choruses gave rise, in the sixth century B.C. to dramatic verse, and to the practice of writing poetic plays for performance in their theatres. In more recent times, the introduction of electronic media and the rise of the poetry reading have led to a resurgence of performance poetry and have resulted in a situation where poetry for the eye and poetry for the ear coexist, sometimes in the same poem. The late 20th century rise of the singer-songwriter and Rapping culture and the increase in popularity of Slam poetry have led to a renewed debate as to the nature of poetry that can be crudely characterised as a split between the academic and popular views. As of 2005, this debate is ongoing with no immediate prospect of a resolution. == Terms == === Periods, styles and movements=== :''For movements see List of schools of poetry.'' (Organized alphabetically, not by date) {| |valign=top| * American poetry * Australian_literature#Poetry * Automatic poetry * Black Mountain poets * British Poetry Revival * Chanson de geste * Chinese poetry * Concrete poetry * Cowboy poetry * Digital poetry * Epitaph * Erasure poetry * Found poetry |valign=top| * Imagism * Korean poetry * Limerick (poetry) * Lyric poetry * Martian poetry * Medieval poetry * Minnesinger * Modernist * Modernist poetry * Movement (literature) * New York School * Objectivist poets |valign=top| * Parnassian * Pastoral * Performance poetry * Post-modernist * Romanticism * San Francisco Renaissance * Sound poetry * Symbolism (arts) * Troubador * Trouv�re |} === Technical means=== {| |valign=top| * Accent (poetry) * Accentual verse * Aleatory * Alliteration * Alliterative verse * Anacrusis * Aposiopesis * Assonance |valign=top| * Caesura * Chain rhyme * Consonance * Dissonance * Enjambement * Foot_(poetry) * Half rhyme * Eye rhyme |valign=top| * Kennings * Onomatopoeia * Rhyme * Rhyme scheme * Rhythm * Sprung Rhythm * Stichomythia * Syllabic verse |} === Tropes=== * Metaphor * Simile * Irony * Metonymy * Synecdoche * Ellipsis === Measures of verse === {| width = "50%" |- !align = "left"|Types of metre !align = "left"|Types of line |- |valign = "top"| * Amphibrach * Anapaest * Choreus * Dactyl (poetry) * Dibrach * Iamb * Pyrrhic (verse metre) * Spondee * Tribrach * Trochee |valign = "top"| * Monometer * Dimeter/couplet * Trimeter * Tetrameter * Pentameter * Hexameter/Alexandrine * Heptameter * Octameter * Poulter's measure |} == Other == * Concrete poetry * Cricket poetry * Dub poetry * e-poetry * hypertext poetry * List of poems * List of poetry anthologies * List of poetry collections * List of poetry groups and movements * List of poets * Poetry analysis * Poem and song * Prose poetry * Slam poetry * Spoken word * Vogon poetry ==See also== *List of national poetries'' *List of verse forms * Novel * Short story * Theater ==References== *Alex Preminger, Terry V.F. Brogan and Frank J. Warnke (Eds): ''The New Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and Poetics'' (Princeton University Press; 3rd edition, 1993). ISBN 0691021236 ==External links== * [http://germanpoetry.blogspot.com German Poetry] * [http://www.nilacharal.com/stage/kavithai/index.html Collection of Tamil poems] * [http://www.poets.org Academy of American Poets] * [http://www.poetseers.org Poet Seers] * [http://poetryx.com Poetry X] 10,000+ classic and contemporary poems * [http://plagiarist.com Plagiarist.com] * [http://www.bartleby.com/verse/ Bartleby Verse] * [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/paganpoetssociety/ Pagan Poets Society] * [http://www.bestlovepoems.net Love Poems] * [http://www.turkishclass.com/poems.html Bilingual poems in Turkish and English] * [http://www.postpoems.com] 20,000 poets * [http://www.ericdigests.org/2003-1/poetry.htm Poetry and Science Education] * [http://www.ericdigests.org/2000-4/poetry.htm Poetry in the Adult ESL Classroom] * [http://www.uni.edu/~gotera/CraftOfPoetry/ Craft of Poetry] * [http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/results?title=poem Poetry eTexts] at Project Gutenberg * [http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/results?subject=poetry More Poetry eTexts] at Project Gutenberg Poetry Literature ga:Fil�ocht th:กวีนิพนธ์

Poetry

---- This article is part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Poetry. See that page for guidelines. ---- ---- ==Misc.== Typo? Should, "However, in the European tradition, the earliest surviving poems, the Homeric and Hesiodic epics, identify themselves poems to be recited or chanted to a musical accompaniment rather than as pure song," have an "as" after "themselves"? "...identify themselves as poems to be recited..." crc ---- okay stuff moved here from the Poetry page on August 9th, 2001 - User:Jimmy Lo ==What makes something poetry?== ** Jeff Harrison called it "better than nothing." aside from the inescapable timebound (faddish) criteria, these two seem to be permanent: 1. "yugen", or mysterious beauty; i.e. resonance with the subconscious. (in the 18c.--often called the least poetical time for english-- this was not expected nor sought.) 2. "calliditas", or concise aptness. some--a very few--good poets lack this (Whitman, Jeffers) but there will always be those who refuse them the first rank for this reason. Poetry is describing something perfectly. i would also add: "melopoeia" or phonetic coherence (for some time now, in eclipse); "phanopoeia" or visual imagery; & "logopoeia" or conceptual originality (these are Pound's coinages). "poignancy" belongs in here somewhere, but since every age draws the line between pathos & bathos differently, i can only suggest that poetry must be about the human feelings & situations which are thought to be worth exploring at that time. nowadays bad childhoods & famous artists appear frequently, while epics on the founding of political dynasties would be a very hard sell. The poet and critic :William Empson identified the quality of ambiguity as fundamental to poetry, i.e. that the response which poetry evokes is conditional to an extent upon the uncertainties within the language. His book 'Seven Types of Ambiguity' details the different forms in which ambiguity can manifest itself. having one of these excellences is sufficient; but having many of them is still better. ---- ==What about the state of poetry today?== i see "Poetry" (in english) balkanized as seldom before, with three mutually-ignoring, self-aggrandizing factions, Language Poetry, NeoFormalism, & Zeeps (free verse lyrics in the first person about mundane eventicles--aren't you glad this has a name?); with their immediate "godfathers" being Stein, Frost & Williams. (myself, i follow Mallarme if anyone, which puts me under the radar. so i guess there is a fourth group: STEALTH POETS...) --graywyvern ---- What passes for poetry these days is mostly in a sorry state, and even those who may have something to say are not saying it in the language most people can appreciate. Remember that in previous centuries, most of the best poets did not barricade themselves inside a "high art" dungeon. I would say the popular musicians (pop/rock/grunge/rap/all the rest) and maybe even more so the musicians who work in styles that are popular within their own region or ethnic group, have for the most part taken over from those who call themselves poets. Most of it is crap, of course, but most of 19th Century poetry was crap. Only a few of the best or most lucky are remembered. I think the best of the popular music lyricists are genuine poets who measure up well against previous centuries. :I used to agree with that last paragraph - Dylan being the prime example - but now no longer now what to think. Take away the music, in most cases, and the rhythm disappears. Its a form of poetry that requires a particular performance to be effective, which I don't think _real_ poetry requires. Milton, or Spenser, or Eliot, or Whitman, or anyone you care to name, functions dramatically well without the crutch of music. just a thought. User:Atorpen ::Checked out Zack de la Rocha? Or maybe Maynard James Keenan? -- User:Sam Francis :::Yes, of course I have. But the rhythm comes from the expression, and the way of expression - take away the music, or the form, and its different. And, if it came to it, sorry, but Dylan would be the better poet. Better than rage, certainly. User:Atorpen 00:31 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC) ::I think you're argument is specious. If you read *any* poetry without regard to rhythm or phrasing, you turn it into something less than it's creator intended. Some poetry requires careful attention to rhythm and phrasing, and some doesn't. Would you try to argue that Virgillian epic isn't poetry, because it isn't made for oral consumption? Similarly, I can't see how poetry constructed for music ceases to be poetry when excised from it's habitat. Interesting stuff to study in this respect is Hamish Henderson's work in the folk vein - quite definitely poetry, sung or not. -- Calum ---- ==Redirect== I've just redirected poem here, because I couldn't think of a way the two could avoid duplicating each other in large part (poem was only a stub in any case). Poem had an interlanguage link to the Dutch 'pedia's article on "Gedicht" - I don't know if putting it here is the best match, or if there's a Dutch article on "poetry" rather than "poem". Somebody might want to check that. --User:Camembert --- ==I disagree== "Prose is more likely to be written spontaneously than poetry, which tends to be composed with care over a period of time." (Quote from article) I diasagree very strongly with this. Of course a poem is worked on, but so is prose. But without some spontaneous start there is probably no poem. You can sit down and write prose to order but with poetry this is harder. User:BevRowe :I disagreed with it very strongly in an earlier edit when it suggested that poetry was ''always'' more considered than prose, and that poetry couldn't be spontaneously composed at all. That's why I toned it down a bit, though I still share your concerns about it. If you want to change the sentence, or take it out altogether, then go ahead - I for one won't object. --User:Camembert :I also disagree with the statement -- if it's still there I'll change it. -- User:Sam Francis --- " Poetry is as old as human speech" (Quote from article) What possible evidence is there for this? I think an enclopedia is not the place for such unsubstantiated opinions.User:BevRowe :I guess it depends on how one defines poetry as much as anything else. As I said in an edit summary, this articles needs a lot of work. --User:Camembert ---- ==Mishmash== The list under "meters" is a horrid mishmash of foot type and line type. The entry "Iambic pentameter" should refer to "iambs". Don't we need separate lists? User:BevRowe :Agreed. Go for it! User:Atorpen 01:09 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC) ::I've made a start. User:BevRowe ---- ==Word Choice== The mention of poetry as necessitating "word choice" and the article in general does not acknowledge the existence of automatic poetry. --User:Daniel C. Boyer :I've inserted the work "usually" into the first paragraph (I think that's right - automatic poetry is the exception rather than the rule, after all). As I've said before, the article needs work in general, but it's a tricky task. --User:Camembert ::O.k.; good. --User:Daniel C. Boyer ---- ==Definition of Poetry== As some of you may be aware, there are two "camps" with regards to the definition of poetry. What has been discussed here is mainly the "loose" definition. The loose definition, as far as I can tell, defines poetry as anything not prose. The "strict" definition, which held the majority of public opinion until the late 1800s and early 1900s, is that prose is all that is not poetry. Poetry, under the strict definition, is a purely verbal medium, using metre and possibly other types of sub-structure, such as rhyme, alliteration, etc. User:Sehrgut ---- The first sentence of this article is very poor, and problematic; the defintion of poetry is more complex and contested, and the article should reflect this more thoroughly :As I've said several times before, this does indeed need a good deal of work. Feel free to improve it as you see fit - it won't get any better unless somebody does the required work. --User:Camembert ---- Should the article divided into Arabic poetry, Chinese poetry, European poetry, Japanese poetry, etc? Messing up the Japanese poetry with European poetry as in current setting seems not a good idea. --User:Wshun ==An Overhaul in Progress== I've rewritten the first paragraph as an attempt at clarifying what it is that distinguishes poetry from other forms of writing. Please feel free to edit further. --User:Filiocht The statement that, to quote the article: 'Today, English writers of poetry seldom use rhyme as this to the English ear often signifies humor.' is, I think, very contentious. Would you say that rhyme as used by Heaney or the new American formalist poets is humorous? I may attempt to rewrite the paragraph on rhyme if time allows. User:Filiocht 13:45, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC) Actually did a major rewrite but forgot to log in first, so 193.138.111.250 is me. User:Filiocht 09:04, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC) Have rationalized the lists of links at the bottom to a) remove redundant repeats and b) try to make the groupings more coherent. Any comments? User:Filiocht 11:56, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC) And added a section on Form. User:Filiocht 13:06, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC) ==Moving here from article== This text was added by User:Mrs.Medha I have moved it here because I think it needs more work. I have also left a note on her talk page. :Poetry is bunch of sequential words which takes birth out of a typical state of mind of a poet mostly in tranquility. It's storm with roar of wind which bursts out of poet's brain just like child takes birth on mother earth. :It may be outcome of peaceful thoughts,purposeful/occasional thoughts(like creations of lyrics for cinemas),provoking thoughts, patriotic thoughts,idealistic thoughts,love thoughts or any of other types of emotional thoughts. == Poetry "series" == What's the categorization scheme of these series? It certainly doesn't include poetry from all the major countries and cultures in the world. It's also a bad idea to leave self links and to link to the middle of an article. The section links should only be done within an article. --User:JiangUser talk:Jiang 17:38, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC) :I agree with Jiang. Perhaps it should be made into multiple series. I know linking to section headers from external articles is frowned upon, though I don't mind it -- might be better in any case to move those lists to their own articles, thus removing any need to link to a section header. Some thoughts on organizing: *Would it make sense to make a series for each region (e.g. Eastern European poetry vs. Western European poetry vs. East Asian poetry)? Poetry could then link to pages describing each of these broad regions and including the series table for the individual countries (I know the current state of information may make this unusable -- is it good in theory?) *If so, Poetry could contain links to the sub-series on the cultural regions of poetry articles, as well as links to parent articles for sub-series on verse forms and movements. As people write the articles, I'll add them. I can't do it all and time spent talking here would be better spent on the missing nations. I'm currently working i=on improving English poetry. Frankly, working on poetry here is a lonely business. Most of the pages I've created have nothing on the talk pages that I didn't put there. User:Filiocht 09:50, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC) User:TUF-KAT I've made some changes. Of course the number of national poetries that are included will grow as the articles are written, but you have to start somewhere. User:Filiocht 11:18, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC) (from wikipedia talk:article series) ''"National poetries" simply links to poetry. Then we have "poetry" listed in the middle of the table. Having two links to the same place in one table is just plain confusing. And why at the middle and not the top? Why at all? Shouldint the series contain articles of the same specificity? The general topic belongs on top. ''When making such a "series", one should anticipate all the items that should be included. It is fine to leave red links in the table. But if we were to do this for the poetry "series" (by adding all the countries in the world), we would have an entire column of red links, likely significantly longer than the article itself. I think the "National poetries" series as it is, is a net loss. --User:JiangUser talk:Jiang 00:26, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC) A series table for so many items not closely related should not be made. Instead, create a list of national poetries and link it to every "national poetry" article.--User:JiangUser talk:Jiang 19:03, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC) Again, it's innappropriate to links "poetry" in the table when it is not a "national poetry". The list is too ambitious and should not be done at all. Doing the same for all the countries of the world (i.e., a "countries of the world" series) would be equally absurd.--User:JiangUser talk:Jiang 19:21, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC) == Layout == Uhm, please, do you really need to make the terms (chapter 6) in tables instead of just writing them the normal way? Imagine a smaller monitor, or something. This doesn't seem right, as it puts form over function. Just my 2 cents --User:Denny 16:23, Feb 23, 2004 (UTC) --------- Far and away the most impressive entry I've seen yet on Wikipedia. ==Pope Quote== Unless someone can line-by-line highlight the techniques exemplified in the Pope quote, I can't see what it is adding to the article. It assumes a knowledge, rather than providing information. User:Filiocht 15:23, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC) == Poetry == Which poet was the one who created the most poems in the world? Anon User:Filiocht 11:22, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) ==Acrostic== Where's the bit on acrostic poetry? Wikipedians Instill Knowledge about Interesting and Pertinent topics, waxing Eloquent Developing Information Abundance How about other poems like this for which I forgot the name: PTOPTOPTOPTOPTO O TB TOPTOPTOPTOPTOP A S S C I I K D D B E ET BOTTOMBOTTOMBOT (I saw a better one about an apple with "stem", "yum", plus, in the middle "worm" in a high school literary magazine.) -- User:Ke4roh 22:20, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC) :That would be concrete poetry. User:Rmhermen 18:16, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC) ==Poetry and Rhetorics== It does seem to state the facts a bit backwards to call poetic devices rhetorical devices when rhetorics may just as well have taken them from poetry. This also presents these poetic devices as something of a cheap way to direct the reader, as rhetorics have the connotation of sneakily influencing people to the advantace of the rhetorician. Maybe something should be said about Figures of speech and symbolism. == verse form versus rhyme scheme == I'm getting a little flummoxed by these two categories. A lot of the things under verse form are basically just rhyme schemes, while rhyme scheme is listed under technical means and has a whole article also listing rhyme schemes. I'm inclined to just throw the remaining rhyme schemes (e.g. spenserian stanza) into the verse form section since we're almost there anyway. Alternatively we could try to purge the verse form section of "forms" that have no significance other than prescribing a rhyme scheme (e.g. rhyme royale). Thoughts? --User:Chinasaur 03:30, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC) : Verse form also includes rhythm. User:Filiocht 08:22, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC) ==Subjective lists== What are these entirely subjective lists of 'famous' poets and poems doing here? User:Filiocht 08:22, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC) : Move. -- User:Sundar 08:38, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC) == Another "what is poetry?" question == Alright, so, if someone were to write a work of prose which was very concerned with the aesthetic quality of the writing itself, to the extent that he/she had to make sure that each sentence "flowed" correctly, that each word was the best possible word for its particular meaning and placement (paying close attention to connotations as well as definitions), and imposed other such stylistic requirements on his/her writing -- what would keep the individual from claiming to have written "free-verse prose-poetry", or something like that? I mean, what might distinguish stylized prose from something as potentially ambiguous as free-verse prose-poetry or some other seemingly ambiguous and informal variety of "poetry"? This question is especially important if poetry is defined loosely as anything that is not prose -- since in this case, the definition of prose itself is in question. --User:Corvun 13:50, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC) :If you read the article closely, I feel that this prose/poetry question has been fairly well addressed. User:Filiocht 14:58, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC) ::"Poetry can be differentiated most of the time from prose, which is language meant to convey meaning in a more expansive and less condensed way, frequently using more complete logical or narrative structures than poetry does. This does not necessarily imply that poetry is illogical, but rather that poetry is often created from the need to escape the logical. A further complication is that prose poetry combines the characteristics of poetry with the superficial appearance of prose. And there is, of course, narrative poetry, not to mention dramatic poetry, both of which are used to tell stories and so resemble novels and plays. However, both these forms of poetry use the specific features of verse composition to make these stories more memorable or to enhance them in some way." ::So, what if the work of prose, with the various stylistic requirements imposed on it by its author, were a work of fantasy fiction? This paragraph implies that one could distinquish between prose and narrative poetry by the use of a verse structure. So is the King James Bible narrative free-verse poetry or prose? And what would distinguish the "narrative free-verse prose-poetry" in the hypothetical work I spoke of above from a stylized prose? Would "narrative free-verse prose-poetry" effectively ''be'' prose? Or would this simply be a case nested firmly in the blurry line between the two? --User:Corvun 22:41, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC) ==Ambiguous sentence== Can "As" be changed to "Because" in this sentence? :"As it is created using language, poetry tends to use formal linguistic units like phrases, sentences and paragraphs." User:Maurreen 05:41, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC) I think so. -- User:Sundar 05:46, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC) :Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems self-evident. Can the sentence be struck? User:Maurreen 06:15, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::I wouldn't really say it's self-evident. Concrete poetry, from what I've seen, doesn't use much in the way of phrases, sentences, or paragraphs. The majority of poetry I've seen, aside from prose poetry, uses mainly verses and stanzas rather than sentences and paragraphs. Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that there are extensive exceptions to this, but I'm pretty sure at least a little more than half the poetry out there uses linquistic structures that differ (albeit not very greatly) from the sentences and paragraphs associated with prose. We should also take into account that there's even some poetry out there that looks something like: ::The purple crocodile shirts fink monkey, ::Nine chicken honk honk pudding pop, ::Glug cups gilded fraught Mickey Mouse, ::Die twenty bock bock bock bock bock. ::It seems to me that just as modern "art" (if you can even call it that) has abandoned realism in favor of dots and splashes of paint, claiming some ludicrous sort of "symbolism", a lot of modern poetry is relieving itself of the confines of anything resembling the actual use of language in favor of gibberish. The hypothetical example I typed just now would probably be judged by critics to be some sort of amazing allegory for the anxieties of Generation X's struggle with the negative vegan stereotypes portrayed in media and the loss of cultural innocense, or some other such nonsense. ::But I've completely gotten off my point, which is that poetry doesn't always follow the rules of language. Not since prose encroached on and supplanted poetry as the standard form of narrative in subjects like history, religion, and fiction, necessitating the expansion of poetry into new territory. ::Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. --User:Corvun 07:05, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC) :::I think you are right, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Many avant garde poetic movements, say the Language poets, have specifically targeted the sentence as representing a kind of tyrany. For others, like Charles Olson, the line was the basic unit of poetry, not the sentence. Even in more conventional poetry, the stanza or couplet served this role. Any of these units may or may not equate to prose sentences or paragraphs. Also, many potes use punctuation to indicate pauses rather than grammatical units. And as for e.e. cummings! User:Filiocht 08:35, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC) OK, it seems like it needs some improvement, one way or another. Continued below. User:Maurreen 17:39, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC) I'm thinking the following should be changed: :"As it is created using language, poetry tends to use formal linguistic units like phrases, sentences and paragraphs. In addition, it uses units of organisation that are purely poetic. The main units that are used are the line, the couplet, the strophe, the stanza, and the verse paragraph." Here's a draft: :"Compared with prose, poetry depends less on the linguistic units of sentences and paragraphs, and more on units of organisation that are purely poetic. The typical structural elements are the line, couplet, strophe, stanza, and verse paragraph." User:Maurreen 17:39, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC) ==Nationalities== I added both the Chinese and Korean links, but after reading the discussion here, I think maybe they should be removed. User:Kdammers 12:54, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Poetry and form==

Poetry

Literature fa:Category:شعر

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P

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Words begining with Poetry:

PoetrY
Poetry
Poetry
Poetry
Poetry-stub
Poetry.ogg
Poetry/accent
Poetry_(Chicago)
Poetry_(Chicago)
Poetry_analysis
Poetry_analysis
Poetry_anthologies
Poetry_anthologies
Poetry_anthology
Poetry_appreciation
Poetry_awards
Poetry_Bookshop
Poetry_by_nation_or_language
Poetry_Chicago
Poetry_collections
Poetry_Interpretation
Poetry_in_the_united_states
Poetry_of_China
Poetry_of_England
Poetry_of_Ireland
Poetry_of_Jim_Morrison
Poetry_of_Spain
Poetry_of_the_United_States
Poetry_of_the_United_States
Poetry_of_the_United_States
Poetry_reading
Poetry_Slam
Poetry_slam
Poetry_stubs