Podcasting

Podcasting, a portmanteau of Apple Computer "iPod" and "broadcasting", is a method of publishing files to the Internet, allowing users to subscribe to a feed and receive new files automatically by subscription, usually at no cost. It first became popular in late 2004, used largely for audio files. Podcasting is distinct from other types of audio content delivery because of its subscription model, which uses the RSS (file format) 2.0 file format. This technique has enabled independent producers to create self-published, syndicated "radio shows", and has given broadcast radio programs a new distribution channel. Users subscribe to podcasts using "podcatching" software (also called "aggregator" software) which periodically checks for and downloads new content. It can then sync the content to the user's portable music player. Podcasting does not require an iPod or iTunes; any digital audio player or computer with the appropriate software can play podcasts. The same technique can deliver video files, and by 2005 some aggregators could play video as well as audio. ==History== ===Origin of podcasting=== By 2003, a number of blogs and broadcasters already published audio online and the RSS (file format) was widely used for summarizing or syndicating content. While RSS/RDF already supported media resources implicitly, applications rarely took advantage of this. It was only when the Userland branch of RSS gained an explicit "enclosure" element in 2001 that Radio Userland support for it appeared. In June, 2003, Stephen Downes demonstrated RSS aggregation and syndication of audio files using RSS in his Ed Radio application [http://www.downes.ca/ed_radio.htm]. Ed Radio scanned RSS feeds for MP3 files, collected them into a single feed, and made this feed available as SMIL or WebJay audio feeds. In September, 2003, blogging and RSS evangelist Dave Winer created an RSS-with-enclosures feed [http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/lydon/specialRssFeed] for his Harvard Berkman Center colleague Christopher Lydon, a former newspaper and television journalist and NPR radio talk show host. For several months Lydon had been linking full-length MP3 interviews to his Berkman weblog, which focused on blogging and coverage of the 2004 U.S. presidental campaigns. Having Lydon's interviews as RSS enclosures helped inspire Adam Curry's pre-iPodder script, "SyncPod" [http://radio.weblogs.com/0001014/2003/10/20.html#a4644] and related experiments leading to a variety of open source iPodder development. Indeed, blogs would become an important factor in the popularization of podcasting before professional radio broadcasters and entrepreneurs with business plans adopted the form. Possibly the first use of the term "podcasting" (a portmanteau of the terms "iPod" and "broadcasting") was as a synonym for "audioblogging" or weblog-based amateur radio in an article by Ben Hammersley in ''The Guardian'' [http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,1145689,00.html] on February 12, 2004. In September of that year, Dannie Gregoire used the term to describe the automatic download and synchronization idea that Adam Curry had developed [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ipodder-dev/message/41]. Gregoire had also registered multiple domain names associated with podcasting. That usage was discovered and reported on by Curry and Dave Slusher of the Evil Genius Chronicles website. By October, 2004, detailed "how-to podcast" articles ([http://www.engadget.com/entry/5843952395227141/ early example]) had begun to appear online. By mid-June, 2005, a Google search for "'how to' +podcast" returned 1,260,000 hits. On May 22, 2005, Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Computer, promised that automatic podcast subscriptions would be supported in the next major release of iTunes. Currently, some television personalities are using podcasting to get their uncensored opinions to the public. One such personality is Keven Pereira (http://www.kevinpereira.com), host of G4 television's "Attack of the Show" who gives a weekly "Attack of the Podcast" through his personal blog. == Other uses == Podcasting's initial appeal was to allow individuals to create their own "radio shows", but the system is increasingly used for other reasons, including: * A new outlet for commercial and public radio stations. (''See List of radio stations with podcasts'') * Broadcasters creating programming that they wouldn't get away with otherwise. Regulatory bodies, like the British Ofcom, would certainly have issues with Simulacrum [http://www.listentothestars.co.uk]. * Unofficial audio tours of museums. ([http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/28/arts/design/28podc.html?ex=1274932800&en=db1ced6873dcc4b6&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss New York Times article]) * Education. [http://www.mgsonline.org.uk/ Musselburgh Grammar School], Scotland began podcasting foreign language audio revision and homework, possibly becoming the first school in Europe to launch a regular podcast. * Religion. Podcasting has been used by many religious groups[http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun05/333091.asp]. [http://www.stmarksclayfield.org St Mark's Anglican Church, Clayfield Australia] podcasts talks and sermons from their evening service. [http://www.discipleswithmicrophones.org Disciples with Microphones] provides podcasts relating to the Catholic church. Other groups also use podcasting for religious purposes == See also == *Media RSS ==External links== *[http://edmarketing.apple.com/adcinstitute/wp-content/Missouri_Podcasting_White_Paper.pdf Podcasting VODcasting whitepaper] at apple.com (PDF file) *[http://www.digitalpodcast.com/podcastvaluechain.pdf The Podcast Value Chain Report] An Overview of the Emerging Podcasting Marketplace (PDF file) *[http://www.jakeludington.com/podcasting/20050222_recording_a_podcast.html Recording a Podcast] - An introductory guide teaching Windows users how to record and publish their first podcast. *[http://www.wnyc.org/about/podcasting.html WNYC's Podcasting synopsis] - A synopsis of podcasting, including links to many podcasts (on NPR and elsewhere), info about and help articles related to podcasting ("Podcasting 101"), downloads of software etc. *[http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2005/06/14.html#a10396 Does podcasting cover video or other files?] - Microsoft's Robert Scoble wonders whether the term has a broad or narrow definition Digital audio Computing portmanteaus

Podcasting

Note to posters: Please put comments at the bottom of the page, which is standard wikipedia style, rather than within the subsection you're reponding to. Sprinkling new comments throughout this ever-longer page makes it very hard to find them, since these aren't threaded discussions. You can use cut-and-paste quotes from other comments if that's needed . --User:DavidWBrooks 14:53, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC) ---- Talk:Podcasting/archive1> Where would be an appropriate place to an external link to a page about how to listen to a podcast? --anonymous == How Podcasting might affect media consumption habits? == (This is my first ever Wikipedia post. Please redirect me if this is not the proper forum for this topic). Would this work on Podcasting be an appropriate place to discuss how podcasting might alter news and entertainment habits in the future? It seems that the user-centric model of users selecting media to play/read might also be combined with the interactivity of blogging, except the digital devices of the future may provide easy ways to create streaming audio/video in addition to text feedback. Consider this scenario: Users subscribe to the "PodNews Network" for either a set amount per month or year or they purchase news stories for maybe $.50 to $1 for a 3-5 minute piece that includes professionaly quality streaming audio/video, more detailed text and supporting documentation, and a mechanism for reaction by other users. The user can watch/listen/read the news piece then post their own comments, audio commentary, or even streaming video (assuming handheld devices in the future provide a cheap and easy way to do this). The user's reaction is then appended to the story and made available to other users who download the piece. The user community for the news piece could even rank commenters on the news, meaning the more insightful users/commenteers would soon gain a niche following (similar to today's bloggers Hugh Hewitt, Daily Kos, and Instapundit). Any thoughts? What would this mean for media consumers? For for-profit media outlets? : Wikipedia articles should not contain speculation about things that might happen in the future. An encyclopedia article gives people context about the current situation, the history of that situation, and the current situation in related areas, updated as circumstances change. What might happen in the future isn't really part of it. (There are, of course, a bazillion other places on the Web where speculation is encouraged - check out any podcasting forum!) --User:DavidWBrooks 13:19, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC) == Note to anon editor == Somebody just undid quite a chunk of editing by an anonymous editor because that editing removed all the wiki markup. I think that the anon cut-and-pasted the copy outside wikipedia, edited it, then cut-and-pasted the new version back inside wikipedia, losing all the markup in the process. So whoever you are, please do your editing ''within'' wikipedia! - User:DavidWBrooks 19:12, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC) Thanks, David. I felt bad about reverting his/her work, but I didn't want to go back and incorporate it all. --User:Screetchy cello 21:23, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) == Don't need to set up google searches in the links == People can do their own Google searches - we don't need to guess what they'll search for and program it into external links. --User:DavidWBrooks 15:03, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) ==I must be daft== I must be daft because I don't see how podcasting is all that novel of a concept. All it is are recordings of shows (which many stations, including many NPR stations, already do) with a new name. And all of a sudden that new name is supposed to make it new? and cutting edge?? Please. Someone please explain the difference. :With NPR, you have to go to their site, click on a link, and then listen to the content, which is streamed and not available for download. Podcasting is different because listeners can automatically download content and keep it for later listening. It's that "automatic download" part that makes podcasting different, since it allows people to transmit and receive content easily. :Also, please sign your posts with four tildes(~~~~) or by clicking the "signature" button at the top of the editing box. It makes it easier to follow conversations. Thanks. --User:Screetchy cello 23:05, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC) == External links and iPodder.org == If all of the external links get removed all the time, why does the section exist? Perhaps it should be removed entirely. I also wonder why iPodder.org gets a link when it clearly has a corporation profiting behind it. --User:Mastermaq 07:37, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC) : External links are always tricky - they may be the single most common area of dispute in wikipedia. They're particularly tricky in an article like this, where the subject matter is so new that it's changing before our eyes, and so the nature and shape of related Web sites is still changing. (There's not so much link dispute in articles about, say, Elizabethan poetry) : An external link should exist only if it adds important information or insight that's not found in the article and can't be easily found elsewhere on the Web, or if it connects to an important primary source, and if it doesn't exist primarily or largely as a commercial site. (We're not a link farm, so we don't need to deluge readers with every single option, but we're not an island unto ourselves, either.) : Having said this, it's obvious that the nature of an appropriate external link is subjective, like most other aspects of wikipedia. Hence the back-and-forth. We don't want to get rid of the section, but I'm sure it will continue to be contentious :As for iPodder, it is so important to the creation of podcasting that it seems to be an appropriate primary-source link, despite the commercial concerns. Perhaps that will change with time. --User:DavidWBrooks 13:01, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::This obsession with removing the external links is actually making this page less useful to the reader. It should include a link to Podcastalley for instance as this is probably THE best place to find out about popular Podcast shows. (I have no affiliation with Podcastalley) --User:Danielbroad 13:36, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC) :::I respectfully disagree. This entry is supposed to contain information on what podcasting is, not where to get them. Anybody who wants to find out where to get podcasts can type "podcast" into Google and get a lot of hits, including Podcastalley. --User:Screetchy cello 22:02, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC) :::Thanks for the response David. As long as people are monitoring it I suppose. I mean there is already advertising on iPodder.org, and like Daniel points out, it is no longer vital for finding podcasts. And you can't find software on the site either. Ignorning the fact that it may be commercial, I still don't find it that useful. --User:Mastermaq 09:42, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::::It seems that there is a misunderstanding about the iPodder link. It seems like the link that should be included is this, http://ipodder.sourceforge.net/index.php, which is the source for the open source iPodder software application. iPodder.org shares the name, but is a commercial site, which doesn't really provide any content that expands on this article. == The links return! == Well, we've crawled back up to a dozen overlapping external links. None of them are obvious speedy-removals, but the sum total is no help for the reader - instead it's the "link farm" mentality, which throws up everything you can find and expects the reader to wander back and forth, figuring out what's usable. Not exactly the encyclopedia method. --User:DavidWBrooks 17:33, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC) � :I vote that links to podcast directories should be deleted. As I said above, anybody can type "podcast" into Google and get all the listings they need. They don't belong here, as they're not relevant to what podcasting is. --User:Screetchy cello 22:52, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC) ::Excellent idea. --User:DavidWBrooks 02:04, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::You either have to list all the commercial sites like Lybsyn and BlogMatrix to name two, or none. It seems completely biased otherwise. ::::I'm pretty horrified by the bias in the latest Wikipedia AND all the links disappearing. And Dave Winer getting edited out completely ::::iPodder is not the only directory site - you've got to mention PodCastAlley and the rest, or none. And don't link to Apple - they were nothing to do with podcasting until very recently. ::::I would like to dispute this entry under the Neutral Dispute system - it's not neutral or factually true in places - this older archive is more factual and as I remember podcasting's start: http://web.archive.org/web/20041130005814/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcasting [User:timbearcub] == Opening paragraphs == User:Orbst changed the first sentence to :"Podcasting" is the practice of making files (usually audio files) available online in a way that allows software to automatically detect new files (generally via RSS), and download them... which I like better than the vague "broadcast medium", but I think podcasting isn't "usually" audio files, it is audio files. And the rest of the article refers to nothing but audio podcasts, so I felt it was confusing. I kept in the part about "other formats and other types of files, such as video, can also be podcasted.", so as the technology evolves, we might expand the definition, but I feel it's pretty safe to keep the definition to just audio files. Other than that, I tried to reorganize the first couple of paragraphs, I felt they were pretty shaggy and didn't flow well. Anybody have ideas about fixing the "History" section? I think it's also getting out of hand. --User:Screetchy cello 17:47, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC) :Good on the opening; certainly clearer. I suspect someone'll have to face the "does video count?" issue eventually; the article used to be all audio (as I recall) reflecting the vast majority of current practice. There's a "listen to or watch them at leisure" in the intro still that's potentially a little muddling, but hey. I have no idea about the history. My own main concern about this article is that it should tell the ignorant reader quickly up front just what "podcasting" is; the first time I encountered the article it left me more confused than ever. *8) --User:Orbst 01:11, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Yeah, me too. That's how I got started as well! Oh well, I'll think on it. :) --User:Screetchy cello 05:44, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC) I think the essense of Podcasting is "eliminating perceived latency in receiving large/binary files by pre-fetching them based on a channel-subscription model". So video would apply as easily as audio. And, in researching ''some'' [http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/PodCasting history] from DaveWiner's site, I perceive the origins to be ''only'' video, because the files are so much larger. I think audio is the primary medium right now because it's easier to generate. User:BillSeitz 14:32, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Most important points == It can be hard to 'get' podcasting just like many people don't 'get' whats so cool about Tivo until they try it. A podcast is simply an RSS subsription with enclosures. That explains it IF you know what that means! The practical meaning is audio that is automatically downloaded such that it syncs to an mp3 player, or for later listening on a PC. It is like subscribing to your favorite NPR show so that it is automatically put on your ipod the next time you sync it. I'm not sure the magazine analagy clarifies enough. Video is not usually played on current mp3 players, so I would be hesitant to call them podcasts. Some software also adds bittorrent to the mix. This bandwith is less of a problem for the publisher and makes video more practical in terms of hosting bandwith. Blogs hosted mp3s before podcasting, but now we can sync them with ipods. I myself subscribe to a few shows. My iPod syncs and charges overnight, so that I have them for my morning commute, automatically. I also agree that fewer links are better. Podcasting is so new that links to software and anything not of historical significance may quickly become outdated and would be better found on Google or the like. --User:Witeshadow 08:21, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC) :The efforts on the first sentence are much appreciated. I'm not really crazy about "Podcasting is a new term..."; it both makes the entry self-obsoleting, and seems too meta (podcasting isn't a 'term', it's something that people do). And is "syndication" a word that the average person will understand correctly here? (There are lots of meanings of "syndication" that mean other things entirely; RSS syndicatio nand the syndication of say newspaper columns or comicsare only very tenuously related.) And on "simply an RSS subsription with enclosures": podcasting doesn't necessarily involve RSS (think atom, general rdf, etc, etc, etc), and it's not the subscription that has the enclosures; it's the feed. But maybe I'm just in a picky mood this morning. *8) --User:Orbst 19:52, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::I should have added to "RSS subsription with enclosures" that RSS could be anything, and that it might take the form of something that is different than anything available now. And of course an "RSS subscription" IS the feed, sorta. The most important concepts are not so much the specific technologies (those that undertand what RSS is, may already know what podcasting is) as what happens with them. RSS just happened to be what was easiest at the time, since Dave Winer was involved. Undertanding RSS/Atom and the syntax of syndication is more related to RSS/Atom. This is about what podcating is. The geeky way of describing podcasting is "RSS subsription with enclosures", but those are some vague pieces to put together. That is not how I would explain it to my Grandpa. But I know that he could really get into podcasts if he found a "show" he really liked. Its like "Radio On Demand" meets Tivo and Blogs. Podcasting is simply telling a program to read an often updated list of files, and to have it download new things from it at a regular interval. ::I do feel that podcasting is a specific term for the more general activity that could also include video and other media, but maybe under a different name. Podcasting is radio with almost no barrior to entry, at some point it could be TV too. What do we call it when a bittorrent tracker offers an RSS feed of attached files? Not the typical use of podcasting, but it has the same effect. ::Audio blogging has been mentioned as well. The difference is that the RSS feeds have attachments so a program can automatically download the files. An Audio Blog, of course is a natural place for a podcast. --User:Witeshadow 04:17, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Cited in Supreme Court brief == Yay! Cheers for Wikipedia. This article was cited in a Supreme Court Amici Curiae brief. (The Grokster case) --User:Lotsofissues 13:07, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Definition and linkspam == I tried to rework the definition, since I felt it was too vague and hard to understand. I'm not 100% satisfied with what I've got; it feels too wordy. I'd also like to include some reference to *how* people subscribe to podcasts. :How about "Podcasting is multimedia blogging"? That's what I found it to be, and I wish the wikipedia article told me right away. Also, I deleted some linkspam, and noticed the number of links to podcasting tutorials and such is growing. I favor deleting those along with the podcast directories and such, since they don't help to explain what podcasting is, but what do you all think? :I agree WRT linkspam. To be fair, the links should stay as on-point as possible, so basically delete almost all of the crazy links. —User:BenFrantzDale 20:15, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC) == Uh, so I did a couple of edits == ...and ended up changing half the page. I think this better conveys what podcasting is and how it works. I've seen this article referenced a number of times online, so I tried to write it for a person who doesn't know much about blogging or RSS or MP3s and such. --User:Screetchy cello 23:18, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC) :I say that a podcaster is NOT one who posts downloadable MP3 files on the web. I say that a podcaster is someone who owns a device capable of receiving audio material downloads, and they are tired of commercially sponsored broadcast crap & looking for alternative listening material. They surf the web for new sources of this material. Once found, they place a hook in these locations to allow future material to be reeled into their listening devices. The casting activity has less relation to the process of posting files, and more relation to search, find, retreive process. --RRLedford@gmail.com ::But that isn't how the term is used. It's like saying that broadcasting is actually radio listening. Your describing the wrong end of the transaction. "podcasting" is the side of the transaction that makes the MP3 files conveniently available, NOT the activity on the listeners side. --User:Clifdavis 12:48, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::That is correct - the previous poster has it backwards. Podcasting is creating files and making them available for downloading/RSS. --User:DavidWBrooks 12:52, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Reverted edits by anon editors == I wanted to explain why I reverted the last couple of changes, especially to the anon user 65.30.41.166. Wikipedia isn't a linkfarm, but an encyclopedia. If people want to know how to do podcasting, they can google for that and get much better results. So while that site might be helpful, it doesn't belong in this particular article. Links should help explain what podcasting is, not where to get them or how to do it. Thanks. Also, I kind of liked the History section, and was sad to see it blanked. It's a little shaggy, but I thought it was informative. So I put it back. --User:Screetchy cello 22:00, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC) :I disagree with your judgement of my link. Our Article on 'How to Explain Podcasting to the Flashing 12' is still one of the best non-technical explanations of podcasting out there. [http://www.podcast411.com/f12.html How to Explain...] :Removing that link is a detriment to the viewers of this site. My site is completly commercial free. Yes I have a directory and How to's. But I also have one of the best explanations for the non-techies on the web for Podcasting. :So I am adding a link just to the Flashing 12 Article. --Rob @ Podcast411 ::I disagree with your judgement of WP guidelines. From the Wikipedia:External Links page, "Adding links to one's own page is strongly discouraged." Furthermore, the WP article is a better explaination that this link, so the link is unnecessary. --User:Adm58 00:08, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC) == It's the RSS == It's become the consensus among podcasters that the term "podcasting" applies only to audio content delivered automatically through the RSS protocol. Other online audio delivered through standard web pages do not fit this term. Just thought I'd put that up so everybody's clear on it. --User:Adm58 00:22, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC) :The key part is automated download, and non-computer playback. RSS is a means to this end, but other ways are possible too. --User:Kevin Marks 07:32, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Radio stations section == This is becoming sort of a linkfarm and it isn't very relevant information. I think I might try to broaden it to mention some commercial uses of podcasting, but I don't believe we need to include a bunch of external links. Any thoughts? --User:Adm58 18:08, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC) == Curious about what should (and should not) get included. == Sorry for (initially) jumping in and editing this page before reading the discussion. I won't let it happen again. Anyway, I'm just curious why the additional content I added about Podcasting being publicised by more mainstream media following the pope's death was removed. O.K. Presumably most of the people reading this listen to at least one podcast on a regular basis, but many people I know (including some seriously tech-savvy ones) didn't know about podcasting until it was mentioned in the news. Only time will tell, but I can't help wondering if some podcast content (such as the one I mentioned) will eventually become as historically significant as the recording made when the Hindenberg went down. --User:RichardJFoster 13:14, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) :Obviously it's a judgement call - all of wikipedia is a judgement call! - but in a fast-developing area like podcasting, there are new/expanded mentions in the media almost every week. Articles can't be an exhaustive history of every development in a field or they would become so massive that nobody could read them. If you look up higher in this Talk area, you'll see a whole bunch of media mentions that were removed a while back - back when new "what is podcasting" articles cropped up all the time. --User:DavidWBrooks 13:44, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Understood. I agree that it is not appropriate to mention every new reference in the news. I personally considered the one I added appropriate because it was (to the best of my knowledge) the first "historically significant" (but not computer related) event captured in a podcast. Of course if anyone else knows otherwise, that event would/should take priority. ::''Argh! it appears that bug is back where I get logged out without warning. :-( Updated signature manually'' --User:RichardJFoster 13:58, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::I was the one who removed it because I felt the article was getting sidetracked with too much niche information. As a general rule, we want to avoid specific mentions of podcasts and we want to avoid too many external links. The article should be as straightforward and as self-contained as possible. Please continue to post any comments and questions on the talk page, and I welcome questions on my own talk page as well. --User:Adm58 15:07, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC) ::::Fair enough. I agree that niche information may not add much to the article, and there is certainly no guarantee that the podcasts of John Paul II's funeral and the election of Benedict XVI will become historically significant. Perhaps the information should be added back in only when and if they do. --User:RichardJFoster 15:55, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) == List of Podcasts == Do we break off some of the (former) external links into a new List of Podcasts article? --User:Mydotnet 13:40, May 2, 2005 (UTC) : Personally, I'd vote no, because that list would change so much that we'd always be behind. Plus, there are plenty of podcast directories on the Web. --User:DavidWBrooks 15:18, 2 May 2005 (UTC) == Deleted material == I have reverted deleted material (thus deleting the comment from the person who deleted it, alas!) since material should never be deleted from Talk pages unless it is offensive/illegal. I will archive part of this page, to shorten it. --User:DavidWBrooks 10:13, 4 May 2005 (UTC) == Listing Podcasting sites == ''Please do not add links to individual podcasts, podcast software, podcast cons or to podcast directories (including Podcast Alley). Links should only be here if they help explain *what* podcasting is.'' :Why is this? What about listing the iPodder.org directory? --Anonymous ::Because linking to a site containing podcasts is NPOV- we could never get a fair representation, and even if we could, it is an open question whether that would be encyclopedic. See too up in the discussions: ''I also wonder why iPodder.org gets a link when it clearly has a corporation profiting behind it. --User:Mastermaq 07:37, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)''. Does that sound more than a little POV now, adding Ipodder? Hope that answers your questions. --User:Marudubshinki 15:26, 4 May 2005 (UTC) == Disgreement with time-shifted attribute == In the article podcasts are described as time-shifted. This seems rather incorrect. Unlike time-shifted material, podcasts cannot be listened to while the content is produced, which makes podcasts more akin to recordings then to time-shifted content. The RSS and auto-sync provide a new, unique way to publish audible digital content. The combination of all three rightfully warrants a new name for what would typically be referred to as a recording. Referring to podcasts as time-shifted seems like an attempt to increase the �coolness� factor of the term. --Anonymous :No; entirely correct- podcasting is essentially, fundamentally, asynchronous- timeshifted in other words. The recipient chooses when to listen, not the sender. And your point about production does not hold- just about everything on TV cannot be watched when being produced, and are, like podcasting, sent and with vcrs, received asynchronously/timeshifted, so why then you not cavil about the term's application to TV and VCR's and such, which originated the very term? --User:Marudubshinki 14:20, 16 May 2005 (UTC) == Winer == Who or what is Winer? The word seems to be used without introduction. : Ooops: somebody (maybe me) got overly enthusiastic in past editing. It's fixed now. - User:DavidWBrooks 16:50, 22 May 2005 (UTC) == Radio stations == The portion of the article about U.S. radio stations podcasting some of their broadcasts has been condensed because the list was getting so long - and it's no longer notable when a US station does it. Aside from what appears (unless somebody corrects us) to be the first such radio podcast, which is listed, only really unusual situations such as KYOU (which broadcasts podcasts, instead of the other way around) deserve to be listed separately any more, IMHO. --User:DavidWBrooks 14:46, 18 May 2005 (UTC) :This section is kind of a mess; we need to condense it into some kind of logical summary. It's a jumbled linkfarm type thing at the moment. Please take a crack at it if anyone is willing. --User:Adm58 14:50, May 23, 2005 (UTC) ::It is a link farm, and I don't think it should be that way. I think that section should be more of a "informational" section. Like stating that Rush is planning on turning his radio show into a podcast... but not providing a link to downloading it. Because if we start doing that (as it sort of is right now), then why not have a list of pod casts and podcast software listed too? --User:NoahK 19:51, May 23, 2005 (UTC) :::I tried trimming, combining a bit. --User:DavidWBrooks 21:17, 23 May 2005 (UTC) ::::Why is this section even in this article? Total waste of space IMHO --User:podCast411 20:02, 24 May 2005 (UTC) ::::: I'm not very fond of it either but I don't think people would react kindly if I just deleted it. :) User:Adm58 00:48, May 26, 2005 (UTC) ::::I just think the whole addition of Radio Stations takes away from Podcasting in general - I am going to delete it. --User:podCast411 20:02, 24 May 2005 (UTC) :::A little over-enthusiastic, I think - I undeleted it, then did more trimming. Perhaps the time has come to collapse it all into a couple of paragraphs without separate country mentions. - User:DavidWBrooks 18:46, 27 May 2005 (UTC) :::I don't think I was being agressive. I just do not believe the whole issue of Radio Stations has any place on this page any more then specific podcasts do. As a matter of fact as a podcaster I am offended by them. Podcasting was started by people looking for something other than radio now that radio stations are taking pre-packaged shows and converting them to an MP3 and then having an RSS link to them does not make them true podcasts. Again I am going to delete that section. I see no value in it and it only muddies the waters for those that come to this page. --User:podCast411 15:15, 28 May 2005 (UTC) :::: In it's current version, I agree with podCast411. The information presented is mostly irrelevant. I'd be more interested in seeing a section on how podcasting has influenced radio; Adam Curry's show for example. It is my opinion that this section stay deleted. User:Adm58 22:15, May 28, 2005 (UTC) == 'Software' section removed? == Just thought I'd point out that Australian radio station Triple J has a couple of links to this page on their podcast page at http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/listen/podcast.htm . However one of the links points to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcasting#Software , a section that doesn't exist at the moment. Not being a frequent editor of this page, I thought I might leave it to someone more involved with this article to restore the 'Software' section if they see fit? -- User:Chuq 07:02, 29 May 2005 (UTC) ** Some people think that listing software used for podcasts is a POV thing, and can't be fair to everyone. I don't think there are "that" many podcast software programs out there, so we could include them "all". My vote is to re-add the various podcasting softwares that are out there. User:NoahK 08:15, May 29, 2005 (UTC) ::It's not just that it's NPOV, it's that it is non-encyclopedia-ic. (I never know how to spell that word). Wikipedia isn't a how-to guide or a Web-link guide - that's why we don't, say, list every publisher who prints a version of an out-of-copyright book in an article about that book, or list every manufacturer of ski equipment rented at a particular ski area, or list every interstate leading into Chicago in that city's article, etc. It's incredibly easy for people interested in finding pod software to Google it; wikipedia isn't supposed to be a search replacement. As for the site with the wrong link, they need to update their links more often. - User:DavidWBrooks 13:35, 29 May 2005 (UTC) :::To resolve this problem on the News aggregator page, I just made a separate List of news aggregators page. It cut down on spam on the News aggregator page entirely and while it may not be entirely NPoV or encyclopedic, it isn't useless to have that list of programs. —User:BenFrantzDale 19:39, May 29, 2005 (UTC) :::: Good idea! - User:DavidWBrooks 20:58, 29 May 2005 (UTC) ::::: We should do the same for this section. Add a "see also" link to the List of Podcasts.. and let people add stuff to that page instead of this page. There could even be a "radio broadcast" section. User:NoahK 11:59, May 30, 2005 (UTC) ==Other uses== I removed this because it is inaccurate and it repeats information from another page. The info is wrong because KFI doesn't distribute podcasts, Leo is permitted to do that by the station on his own time and expense. If we insist on having this tangent niche info in the article, can we use some that is accurate? User:Adm58 17:43, May 30, 2005 (UTC) : Ah, excellent - an editor with knowledge that can be used to improve an article, instead of just throwing stuff out. I look forward to seeing it incorporated it in the story. Personally, while it's tangential I don't think it's irrelevant, at least not at this point. In six months or a year, when most radio stations automatically podcast programs, then it probably will be. - User:DavidWBrooks 18:25, 30 May 2005 (UTC) : Now there seem to be two entries claiming to be "first" broadcast radio podcasts. I noticed when I added a third early starter (KOMO). I miss having some reference to the early NPR syndicated program podcasts, including "On the Media" (WNYC) and "Morning Stories" (WGBH), but I see from earlier discussion there's some reorganization of station links in process. Adoption by a national network like the BBC also seems significant. Limbaugh's reference should say why it's there; otherwise just another program. User:BobStepno 01:26, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==NPOV dispute== I'm adding a NPOV banner as I think compared to older archives http://web.archive.org/web/20041130005814/ this article shows bias and factual innaccuracy - I'm not sure me just editing it would work; since my changes would get reverted. I'm an early podcaster and I don't recognise the facts and all the links disappearing, apart from the 2 one of which is a commercial entity - there seems to be a bias to radio stations and commercial entities. And Dave Winer getting edited out completely? What's with that? iPodder is not the only directory site - you've got to mention PodCastAlley and the rest, or none. And don't link to Apple - they were nothing to do with the direction or invention of podcasting until very recently (iTunes 4.9). User:timbearcub : Ah I can see Dave Winer's been added back in now - but will it stay? I still stick by my general point about links - iPodder is not an independent site as it's run by Adam Curry, and not everyone uses it (?) - either add all the directories, or none...and I think some of the useful/historical links could come back? It seems very one-sided...I can see you've decided to take the links out for cleanness, but the current article gives the impression that podcasting is just Adam Curry and Apple?User:timbearcub :: A very small point, timbearcub - if you sign with ~~~~ (four tildes, not just three) it will put the date and time of your post, which makes it easier on Talk pages to keep track of who said what when. Currently, a person following the Talk link from the NPOV bug wouldn't know whether your above comment was made yesterday and is still relevant, or two months ago and has been superceded by events. ::Having said that, I think the remove-the-ipodder-link contingent has made a good case. - User:DavidWBrooks 20:44, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC) :I hope the mentions of Winer, Lydon, Hammersley and Curry stay put and that people don't waste time on "podfather" wars. Winer and Hammersley apparently have a long-standing unharmonious relationship, and I suspect partisans of one or the other have been deleting mention of whichever guy they think is a dork. And now Winer and Curry appear to have split over Curry's podcast-related commercial ventures. When it comes to podcasting, Winer deserves credit for adding the enclosure element to his flavor of RSS and Userland Radio, encouraging Curry's early experiments with it, then setting up a feed for Lydon, which helped inspire Curry's early Applescripts to get MP3s into his iPod. This is well documented in major newspaper and magazine articles, as well as the trail of blog posts and podcasts still online. Meanwhile Hammersley really did put the word "podcasting" in circulation. I think Winer and Curry talked about it in one of their early "Trade Secrets" podcasts last year. User:BobStepno 01:06, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC) :: Thanks David - and the entry is looking a lot fairer now - noting the enmity and some of the issues around that; rather than just naming one person, it's now naming them all. Much better. The problem with innovations like this is that they are part incremental; part liguistics and marketing, and are collaborative - but the media likes a shorthand and just wants one person for their snappy sound bytes! User:timbearcub 15:04, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Downes Contribution== I have (again) added the Stephen Downes contribution of Ed Radio. This application clearly predated other inventions of the concepts, was the first to use RSS explicitly for the aggregation and distribution of MP3. This is important, because it makes it clear that the later Winer-Curry invention was restricted to the uploading of aggregated RSS files to iPods, and not the wider innovation of using RSS to aggregate and distribute RSS feeds. It may or may not have been an influence on subsequent developments (it is certainly not referenced). Other people have wailed a lot about being expunged from history; I see no reason why I should do so silently.-- Stephen Downes == More a name than an invention == This talk of Podcasting as something new strikes me as odd. Only the name is really new. For example the company audible.com has been selling subscriptions to audio (NPR and audio books mostly) to be downloaded into portable music players for many years prior to the dates in any of the proposed histories. Internet Talk Radio (1993) was multicast, but then also put up for regular ftp download. People didn't have music players, and CD burners cost $3,000 so nobody put these things into personal players. In fact, distinguishing podcasting from streaming goes backwards. Producing audio into a file for later download was what came first, and was too slow on the old internet. It was because this took too long to give you the first audio that streaming audio was developed, first on the mbone, later in private streams, which led to the success of the Real Audio company and others. * No, streaming is a technological dead end, applying a telephony mindset to a data transfer problem. If you transfer files in sequential order you can play them from the beginning if you have sufficient bandwidth; if not you wait. With streaming you need sufficient bandwidth, or you get a garbled result.User:Kevin Marks Subscribing to audio files for automatic download goes even further back, however. There are many USENET newsgroups devoted to binaries, including audio files, which date back to the 80s. Of course, many of the contributions there were copyright violations. Unlike RSS "subscriptions" which kludge subscription through polling, USENET (and mailing lists) offered true subscription. You subscribed to a group and items were sent to your machine when they were generated, not when you went to ask for something new. Again, nobody had digital music players in those days so you might not identify it as identical to the way people are defining podcasting, but the concept of subscribing to audio files over the internet with automatic delivery goes back a long, long time before what is now getting called podcasting. == a little bit of clarity == I realise that this page is currently being contested, but can i just give my opinion as someone who is not involved in the editing of this page. I came here to find out more about podcasting, and i expected the article to mention how podcasts can be made, that means a section on software. I see from above that the software section was removed, please put it back in cause wikipedia is the first place i look for an answer, and this page didnt answer it. User:The bellman 02:10, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC) : Wikipedia isn't a how-to guide, if that's what you're looking for. There are tons of such guides on the Web, though - a quick Google will find scads. - User:DavidWBrooks 12:57, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::I agree about not turning an encyclopedia into a how-to manual, but I think The Bellman's point on readers' needs is a good one. Since we are documenting the history of this technology (or meme or whatever it is), documenting how it *spread* seems appropriate. I don't have time to determine which "how-to" came first, but the one linked below was one of the first detailed ones [http://radio.weblogs.com/0106327/stories/2005/02/09/podcastingVideoBlogging.html I bookmarked]. So, inspired by David, I'll add this to the end of the history section. Perhaps it belongs elsewhere. Do with it as you Wikili see fit: ::By October, 2004, detailed "how-to podcast" articles ([http://www.engadget.com/entry/5843952395227141/ early example]) had begun to appear online. By mid-June, 2005, a Google search for [http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B%22how-to%22+%2Bpodcast&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=90&sa=N "'how to' +podcast"] returned 1,260,000 hits. User:BobStepno 21:16, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::Sorry, David... Didn't see your earlier note about Google search strings. Other Uses fix looks OK too, with station names moved to their own page.User:BobStepno 04:15, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) == NPOV note == Hey User:timbearcub, does your above note about the article being better now mean you'd agree to remove the NPOV tag? - User:DavidWBrooks 20:54, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) == List of Podcasts == Per a difficult VfD decision, the article "List of Podcasts" was deleted. That decision may have implications for this page. Please see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of Podcasts for a record of the discussion. *Agree with the decision taken by Rossami. - User:Ta bu shi da yu 03:45, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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