
Persia and Persian can refer to: * the Western name for Iran. * the Persian Empire. * the Persians, an ethnic and cultural group * the Persian language * the Persian (cat) breed * the Persian miniature * the Persian melon * the Persian lamb * the Persian rug (or carpet) * Persepolis === Other place names === * Persia, Iowa * Persia, New York * Persia, California === Other uses === * Persian (Pokémon) ''See also:'' List of Iran-related topics, List of Persia-related topics, History of Iran, Iranian peoples, and Aryan. fa:ایران
Iran Ancient history Former countries
:Talk:Persia/Archive 1 :Talk:Persia/Archive 2 == Moves and Renaming == I think that Dab's points and Zereshk's edits have revealed some good points: * ''Persia'' and ''Persian'' are terms that define a culture group. The articles Persians and Culture of Iran try to address this ethnic group, and both do it very badly. * ''Iran'' is a term for an empire/kingdom/republic that has been used for centuries. * ''Iran'' has also been called ''Persia'', which complicates things. The clearest thing to do would be to change the Persia article into an article about the culture and send all the historical information to History of Iran. The problem with that is that hundreds and hundreds of Wikipedia articles link to Persia and Persian Empire, and most of those links want to go to articles on the kingdom and empire, not the cultural group. I think the best course would be this: * Move all the cultural content of this page either to Persians, Persian culture, or Culture of Iran. * Move all the historical information to History of Iran. Change this page into a redirect to History of Iran. * Make the top of History of Iran say, "This article is about the history of Iran, historically known as Persia. For the culture of Persia, see Persian culture." * Whenever anyone finds a link to "Persia" or the "Persian Empire," have it direct, if possible, to the specific dynasty or empire it refers to. Most of these links to Persia really want the Achaemenid dynasty, while many others want the Sassanid, Safavid, Qajar, or other dynasties. That's one solution. Something has to be done to ease the confusion caused by the current setup. User:Fishal 20:43, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC) :I agree that the current setup is confusing and needs re-organizing. I also agree with the first 3 bullets of your solution. Luckily, the historical section of Persia, and the History of Iran page are complementary; 70% of the History of Iran page is about 20th century Iran, whereas the opposite is true in the Persia page. :However I think that if we want things to technically be correct, we should redirect Persia to Iran after doing what you said. :Yet since this will be a major restructuring task, I suggest we obtain the vote of approval of User:Refdoc and User:Pouya as well before doing this. I'll be happy to help do this if my help is needed.--User:Zereshk 05:09, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC) Good call. But I still think Persia should take you to "History of Iran" because in just about every context, Persia refers to Iran at some point in the past. Check out "What Links Here" from the Persia article. Like I said, hundreds of articles link there, and most refer tp the Achaemenid or other empires of the past. User:Fishal :Technically you are correct User:Fishal: just about in every context, "Persia" refers to Iran at some point in the past. That is how it is. But, in my opinion, it isn't how they should be. It is a mis-conception I think. Most Iranians or Persians dont think of themselves or "Persia" as a thing of the past (although nominally-officially it is). This is in fact what I meant by the "erroneous popular perception" at the top of the Persia article. But then again, I am open to the possibility that this is just my opinion.--User:Zereshk 02:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::Right, but I think the fact that "Iranians have always called their country Iran" does make the name "Persia" kind of anachronistic. ''Iran'' is certainly not a thing of the past, and neither are the ''Persian'' people. But "Persia," the state, is a thing of the past. I think that our goal should be making the WIkipedia as easy to navigete as possible, and that means making sure links go where people expect them to go. Yes, someone writing about ancient Greece will link to Persia without considering the social or cultural weight that that term carries; but the fact is, hundreds or articles do that, and I feel like we have to accomodate them if we want a harmonious Wikipedia. So... I think we need feedback from others, and we need to get it quickly because right now the article is in this awkward transitional stage. -- User:Fishal 04:30, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC) #I made a link to Persia (disambiguation) on top of the page. We can also make this page a disambiguation page instead of a redirect. The previous version of Persia (disambiguation) contained a list of topics related to Persia. I moved them all to a new page List of Persia-related topics, that might be helpful. # Currently, Persian empire is a redirect page to List of kings of Persia. A great part of material in Persia can be moved to Persian empire and a condensed form of it can be put in History of Iran where a link to ''Main article'' (Persian empire) should be available. # Persian was also a redirect page to Persia (disambiguation). I made it a disambig page. # Since the definition of Persia in the page relates it to ''peoples possessing Persian characteristics and culture'', we may create Persian people and put a shortened form of parts pertaining to Persian art, Persian literature and other related topics in that page while making links to more comprehensive pages. # History of Persia currently redirects to Persia. We better make it link to History of Iran when it contain enough content about Persian empire. --User:Pouya 11:50, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) Zereshk asked me a while back to comment and I did not. I am sorry. It was not out of disregard, but I really struggle with this article and I said so much a long while back. The difficulty is the existence of a multiethnic empire called Persian Empire, a relatively small ethnic group called Persians, a much larger conglomerate of merging/merged/alligned/similar ethnic groups, an overarching culture common to many more ethnic groups and finally a language common to a number of ethnic groups paradoxically not all as easily subsumed under one heading as other groups who do not share the same language. So it is messy - typically human history really - and difficult to categorise. The article actually reflects this quite nicely by its own messiness :-)... It would be maybe easier to do a split along Pouya's lines, but link all articles tightly with lost of cross-over liinks and some catergories too. P.S.: I certainly think it is reductionist to the extreme to redirect Persian Empire to a list of Persian Kings. User:Refdoc 11:59, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) :I agree with the aforementioned. But Im afraid Im a bit lost on how to proceed with this all. It seems we have more links than I thought, adding to the confusion. Perhaps someone who is more familiar with the moving business can lead the way, and I will just help with the tidbits and fine-tuning of the contents of the new pages.--User:Zereshk 14:11, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) I agree with you, Refdoc, that some new categories and links are needed. But I think we all can agree that we have these tasks to start out: # Take the historical info from Persia and put it into Persian Empire. # Put a shortened form of it into History of Iran. # Make History of Persia redirect to History of Iran. # Take the cultural info from Persia and put it into Persians. (Pouya, that article already attempts to cover the concept of "Persian people") # Turn Persia into a disambiguation page. I would also suggest making Persian redirect to Persia and have it serve as a disambiguation page for Persia and Persians. User:Fishal 19:19, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC) OK. I'll take care of item one and two.--User:Zereshk 19:35, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC) Well, it seems you are concurrently working on that too! I'll then go ahead and transfer the cultural stuff to the Persian Culture page.--User:Zereshk 20:22, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC) ===... and disambig links=== Recently a well intentioned user started working through the list at Wikipedia:Offline_reports/This_is_one_of_the_most_linked_to_disambiguation_pages, picking the Persia item and started going through the ~1500 linking articles changing the disambig toIran . Many of these are no doubt a bad idea. However, I see from the discussion above that many people here would recommend disambig links into the appropriate time period/section of Persian Empire.
That's a pretty big job. I would suggest that the folks who watch this page are better placed with the knowledge and motivation to do this correctly. Otherwise, it is only a matter of time before some one else also dabs Persia -> Iran.
Alternatively, now would be a good time to discuss a different strategy. -- User:Solipsist 07:20, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
:User:Fishal would be the appropriate person to addres this, I think. He has put a lot of effort into this.--User:Zereshk 18:39, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
Words begining with Persia:
Persia
Persia
Persia
Persia,_CA
Persia,_California
Persia,_IA
Persia,_Iowa
Persia,_New_York
Persia/Archive_1
Persia/Archive_2
Persian
Persian-Greek_Wars
Persianate
Persiana_Jones
Persianism
Persians
Persians
Persian_(cat)
Persian_(Pokemon)
Persian_(Pokémon)
Persian_alphabet
Persian_and_Urdu
Persian_appel_dessert
Persian_Arab
Persian_Arabs
Persian_Architecture
Persian_architecture
Persian_astronomers
Persian_barrenwort
Persian_battles
Persian_Bayan
Persian_berry
Persian_blue
Persian_buttercup
Persian_calendar
Persian_Canadians
Persian_carpet
Persian_Cat
Persian_cat
Persian_Christians
Persian_Christians
Persian_christians
Persian_christians
Persian_column
Persian_columns
Persian_Constitutional_Revolution
Persian_Corridor
Persian_Corridor
Persian_Crocodile
Persian_cuisine
Persian_cuisine
Persian_cuisine
Persian_culture
Persian_culture
Persian_darnel
Persian_Deer
Persian_deities
Persian_deities
Persian_deities
Persian_drill
Persian_Empire
Persian_Empire
Persian_empire
Persian_Expedition
Persian_Fallow_Deer
Persian_fallow_deer
Persian_fire
Persian_food
Persian_Garden
Persian_garden
Persian_garden
Persian_Gardens
Persian_gardens
Persian_geographers
Persian_goddesses
Persian_gods
Persian_grammar
Persian_Gulf
Persian_Gulf
Persian_gulf
Persian_Gulf/Archive
Persian_Gulf_Arabic
Persian_Gulf_Arabic
Persian_Gulf_States
Persian_Gulf_States
Persian_Gulf_states
Persian_Gulf_states
Persian_Gulf_War
Persian_Gulf_War
Persian_Hat
Persian_history
Persian_Horse_Conch
Persian_Immortals
Persian_Ironwood
Persian_ironwood
Persian_Jew
Persian_Jewels
Persian_Jewels
Persian_Jewels_Nigella
Persian_Jews
Persian_Kings
Persian_knights
Persian_knights
Persian_Lamb
Persian_lamb
Persian_lamb
Persian_Language
Persian_language
Persian_language
Persian_Letters
Persian_Lime
Persian_lime
Persian_literature
Persian_literature
Persian_literature
Persian_Lynx
Persian_lynx
Persian_March
Persian_mathematicians
Persian_melon
Persian_motifs
Persian_music
Persian_music
Persian_mythology
Persian_mythology
Persian_mythology
Persian_names
Persian_names
Persian_New_Year
Persian_Pearl
Persian_people
Persian_philosophers
Persian_plateau
Persian_poems
Persian_poetry
Persian_poets
Persian_powder
Persian_red
Persian_religions
Persian_religions
Persian_Rug
Persian_rug
Persian_rug
Persian_rugs
Persian_Safavid_dynasty
Persian_saffron
Persian_scientists
Persian_Shearwater
Persian_Shield
Persian_Shiite_Cemetery,_St._Petersburg
Persian_Sibyl
Persian_studies
Persian_Sunset
Persian_tobacco
Persian_Walnut
Persian_walnut
Persian_War
Persian_Wars
Persian_Wars
Persian_waxing
Persian_weblogs
Persian_weights_and_measures
Persian_wheel
Persian_wildrye
Persian_Woman
Persian_Women
Persia_(disambiguation)
Persia_(disambiguation)
Persia
Persia and Persian can refer to: * the Western name for Iran. * the Persian Empire. * the Persians, an ethnic and cultural group * the Persian language * the Persian (cat) breed * the Persian miniature * the Persian melon * the Persian lamb * the Persian rug (or carpet) * Persepolis === Other place names === * Persia, Iowa * Persia, New York * Persia, California === Other uses === * Persian (Pokémon) ''See also:'' List of Iran-related topics, List of Persia-related topics, History of Iran, Iranian peoples, and Aryan. fa:ایران
Persia
Iran Ancient history Former countries
Persia
:Talk:Persia/Archive 1 :Talk:Persia/Archive 2 == Moves and Renaming == I think that Dab's points and Zereshk's edits have revealed some good points: * ''Persia'' and ''Persian'' are terms that define a culture group. The articles Persians and Culture of Iran try to address this ethnic group, and both do it very badly. * ''Iran'' is a term for an empire/kingdom/republic that has been used for centuries. * ''Iran'' has also been called ''Persia'', which complicates things. The clearest thing to do would be to change the Persia article into an article about the culture and send all the historical information to History of Iran. The problem with that is that hundreds and hundreds of Wikipedia articles link to Persia and Persian Empire, and most of those links want to go to articles on the kingdom and empire, not the cultural group. I think the best course would be this: * Move all the cultural content of this page either to Persians, Persian culture, or Culture of Iran. * Move all the historical information to History of Iran. Change this page into a redirect to History of Iran. * Make the top of History of Iran say, "This article is about the history of Iran, historically known as Persia. For the culture of Persia, see Persian culture." * Whenever anyone finds a link to "Persia" or the "Persian Empire," have it direct, if possible, to the specific dynasty or empire it refers to. Most of these links to Persia really want the Achaemenid dynasty, while many others want the Sassanid, Safavid, Qajar, or other dynasties. That's one solution. Something has to be done to ease the confusion caused by the current setup. User:Fishal 20:43, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC) :I agree that the current setup is confusing and needs re-organizing. I also agree with the first 3 bullets of your solution. Luckily, the historical section of Persia, and the History of Iran page are complementary; 70% of the History of Iran page is about 20th century Iran, whereas the opposite is true in the Persia page. :However I think that if we want things to technically be correct, we should redirect Persia to Iran after doing what you said. :Yet since this will be a major restructuring task, I suggest we obtain the vote of approval of User:Refdoc and User:Pouya as well before doing this. I'll be happy to help do this if my help is needed.--User:Zereshk 05:09, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC) Good call. But I still think Persia should take you to "History of Iran" because in just about every context, Persia refers to Iran at some point in the past. Check out "What Links Here" from the Persia article. Like I said, hundreds of articles link there, and most refer tp the Achaemenid or other empires of the past. User:Fishal :Technically you are correct User:Fishal: just about in every context, "Persia" refers to Iran at some point in the past. That is how it is. But, in my opinion, it isn't how they should be. It is a mis-conception I think. Most Iranians or Persians dont think of themselves or "Persia" as a thing of the past (although nominally-officially it is). This is in fact what I meant by the "erroneous popular perception" at the top of the Persia article. But then again, I am open to the possibility that this is just my opinion.--User:Zereshk 02:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::Right, but I think the fact that "Iranians have always called their country Iran" does make the name "Persia" kind of anachronistic. ''Iran'' is certainly not a thing of the past, and neither are the ''Persian'' people. But "Persia," the state, is a thing of the past. I think that our goal should be making the WIkipedia as easy to navigete as possible, and that means making sure links go where people expect them to go. Yes, someone writing about ancient Greece will link to Persia without considering the social or cultural weight that that term carries; but the fact is, hundreds or articles do that, and I feel like we have to accomodate them if we want a harmonious Wikipedia. So... I think we need feedback from others, and we need to get it quickly because right now the article is in this awkward transitional stage. -- User:Fishal 04:30, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC) #I made a link to Persia (disambiguation) on top of the page. We can also make this page a disambiguation page instead of a redirect. The previous version of Persia (disambiguation) contained a list of topics related to Persia. I moved them all to a new page List of Persia-related topics, that might be helpful. # Currently, Persian empire is a redirect page to List of kings of Persia. A great part of material in Persia can be moved to Persian empire and a condensed form of it can be put in History of Iran where a link to ''Main article'' (Persian empire) should be available. # Persian was also a redirect page to Persia (disambiguation). I made it a disambig page. # Since the definition of Persia in the page relates it to ''peoples possessing Persian characteristics and culture'', we may create Persian people and put a shortened form of parts pertaining to Persian art, Persian literature and other related topics in that page while making links to more comprehensive pages. # History of Persia currently redirects to Persia. We better make it link to History of Iran when it contain enough content about Persian empire. --User:Pouya 11:50, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) Zereshk asked me a while back to comment and I did not. I am sorry. It was not out of disregard, but I really struggle with this article and I said so much a long while back. The difficulty is the existence of a multiethnic empire called Persian Empire, a relatively small ethnic group called Persians, a much larger conglomerate of merging/merged/alligned/similar ethnic groups, an overarching culture common to many more ethnic groups and finally a language common to a number of ethnic groups paradoxically not all as easily subsumed under one heading as other groups who do not share the same language. So it is messy - typically human history really - and difficult to categorise. The article actually reflects this quite nicely by its own messiness :-)... It would be maybe easier to do a split along Pouya's lines, but link all articles tightly with lost of cross-over liinks and some catergories too. P.S.: I certainly think it is reductionist to the extreme to redirect Persian Empire to a list of Persian Kings. User:Refdoc 11:59, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) :I agree with the aforementioned. But Im afraid Im a bit lost on how to proceed with this all. It seems we have more links than I thought, adding to the confusion. Perhaps someone who is more familiar with the moving business can lead the way, and I will just help with the tidbits and fine-tuning of the contents of the new pages.--User:Zereshk 14:11, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC) I agree with you, Refdoc, that some new categories and links are needed. But I think we all can agree that we have these tasks to start out: # Take the historical info from Persia and put it into Persian Empire. # Put a shortened form of it into History of Iran. # Make History of Persia redirect to History of Iran. # Take the cultural info from Persia and put it into Persians. (Pouya, that article already attempts to cover the concept of "Persian people") # Turn Persia into a disambiguation page. I would also suggest making Persian redirect to Persia and have it serve as a disambiguation page for Persia and Persians. User:Fishal 19:19, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC) OK. I'll take care of item one and two.--User:Zereshk 19:35, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC) Well, it seems you are concurrently working on that too! I'll then go ahead and transfer the cultural stuff to the Persian Culture page.--User:Zereshk 20:22, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC) ===... and disambig links=== Recently a well intentioned user started working through the list at Wikipedia:Offline_reports/This_is_one_of_the_most_linked_to_disambiguation_pages, picking the Persia item and started going through the ~1500 linking articles changing the disambig to
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
P
PA | PB | PC | PD | PE | PF | PG | PH | PI | PJ | PK | PL | PM | PN | PO | PR | PS | PT | PU | PW | PX | PY | PZ |Words begining with Persia:
Persia
Persia
Persia
Persia,_CA
Persia,_California
Persia,_IA
Persia,_Iowa
Persia,_New_York
Persia/Archive_1
Persia/Archive_2
Persian
Persian-Greek_Wars
Persianate
Persiana_Jones
Persianism
Persians
Persians
Persian_(cat)
Persian_(Pokemon)
Persian_(Pokémon)
Persian_alphabet
Persian_and_Urdu
Persian_appel_dessert
Persian_Arab
Persian_Arabs
Persian_Architecture
Persian_architecture
Persian_astronomers
Persian_barrenwort
Persian_battles
Persian_Bayan
Persian_berry
Persian_blue
Persian_buttercup
Persian_calendar
Persian_Canadians
Persian_carpet
Persian_Cat
Persian_cat
Persian_Christians
Persian_Christians
Persian_christians
Persian_christians
Persian_column
Persian_columns
Persian_Constitutional_Revolution
Persian_Corridor
Persian_Corridor
Persian_Crocodile
Persian_cuisine
Persian_cuisine
Persian_cuisine
Persian_culture
Persian_culture
Persian_darnel
Persian_Deer
Persian_deities
Persian_deities
Persian_deities
Persian_drill
Persian_Empire
Persian_Empire
Persian_empire
Persian_Expedition
Persian_Fallow_Deer
Persian_fallow_deer
Persian_fire
Persian_food
Persian_Garden
Persian_garden
Persian_garden
Persian_Gardens
Persian_gardens
Persian_geographers
Persian_goddesses
Persian_gods
Persian_grammar
Persian_Gulf
Persian_Gulf
Persian_gulf
Persian_Gulf/Archive
Persian_Gulf_Arabic
Persian_Gulf_Arabic
Persian_Gulf_States
Persian_Gulf_States
Persian_Gulf_states
Persian_Gulf_states
Persian_Gulf_War
Persian_Gulf_War
Persian_Hat
Persian_history
Persian_Horse_Conch
Persian_Immortals
Persian_Ironwood
Persian_ironwood
Persian_Jew
Persian_Jewels
Persian_Jewels
Persian_Jewels_Nigella
Persian_Jews
Persian_Kings
Persian_knights
Persian_knights
Persian_Lamb
Persian_lamb
Persian_lamb
Persian_Language
Persian_language
Persian_language
Persian_Letters
Persian_Lime
Persian_lime
Persian_literature
Persian_literature
Persian_literature
Persian_Lynx
Persian_lynx
Persian_March
Persian_mathematicians
Persian_melon
Persian_motifs
Persian_music
Persian_music
Persian_mythology
Persian_mythology
Persian_mythology
Persian_names
Persian_names
Persian_New_Year
Persian_Pearl
Persian_people
Persian_philosophers
Persian_plateau
Persian_poems
Persian_poetry
Persian_poets
Persian_powder
Persian_red
Persian_religions
Persian_religions
Persian_Rug
Persian_rug
Persian_rug
Persian_rugs
Persian_Safavid_dynasty
Persian_saffron
Persian_scientists
Persian_Shearwater
Persian_Shield
Persian_Shiite_Cemetery,_St._Petersburg
Persian_Sibyl
Persian_studies
Persian_Sunset
Persian_tobacco
Persian_Walnut
Persian_walnut
Persian_War
Persian_Wars
Persian_Wars
Persian_waxing
Persian_weblogs
Persian_weights_and_measures
Persian_wheel
Persian_wildrye
Persian_Woman
Persian_Women
Persia_(disambiguation)
Persia_(disambiguation)
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