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|} Northwest Airlines is an airline headquartered in Eagan, Minnesota, with three major hubs in the United States: Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport, Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport, and Memphis International Airport. Northwest also operates flights from a hub in Asia from Narita International Airport near Tokyo, as well as flights to India from Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam. Northwest is currently the world's fourth largest airline in terms of RPK (revenue-passenger-kilometers). In addition to operating one of the largest domestic route networks in the U.S., Northwest carries more passengers across the Pacific (5.1 million in 2004) than any other U.S. carrier, and carries more air cargo than any other passenger airline. Northwest Airlines' regional flights are operated under the name Northwest Airlink. In September 2004, Northwest joined the SkyTeam Alliance along with its long-time partners, KLM and Continental Airlines. (Northwest was formerly part of the Wings Alliance). Its frequent flyer program is called WorldPerks. == History == Northwest Airlines was founded in 1926 by Col. Lewis Brittin, under the name Northwest Airways. Like other early airlines, Northwest's focus was not in hauling passengers, but in flying mail for the U.S. Postal Service. The fledgling airline established a mail route between Minneapolis and Chicago, using open cockpit biplanes such as the Curtiss Aeroplane and Motor Company Oriole. Northwest did not begin flying passengers until 1927. In 1928, the airline started its first international route with service to Winnipeg, Canada. The airline's operations were expanded to smaller cities in the region by the end of the decade. In 1933, Northwest was designated to fly the Northern Transcontinental Route from New York City to Seattle, Washington: it adopted the name Northwest Airlines the following year. Northwest stock began to be publicly traded in 1941. During World War II, Northwest flew military equipment and personnel from the continental United States to Alaska. This experience led the government to designate Northwest as the United States' main North Pacific carrier following the war. In 1947, Northwest became the first U.S. airline to fly to Japan, using Boeing 377 from Seattle (direct) and Chicago, Illinois (via Anchorage, Alaska). From Tokyo, Northwest flights continued to Shanghai, Manila, and Hong Kong. (Taipei replaced Shanghai after the revolution of 1949.) With its new routes, the airline rebranded itself as Northwest Orient Airlines. In 1951, Northwest helped establish Japan Airlines by leasing its aircraft and crew to the new company. Northwest remains the largest non-Japanese carrier at Tokyo's Narita Airport, with flights to 15 cities in Asia including Seoul, Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Singapore. After airline deregulation, Northwest began direct flights to other Asian cities, and gradually strengthened its presence in the southern United States. It also began flying to United Kingdom, Ireland, Germany, and Scandinavia. In 1985, Northwest purchased Republic Airlines and adopted its three-hub network centered around Minneapolis, Detroit, and Memphis. Northwest returned to its original name with the merger. Northwest was purchased in a 1989 leveraged buyout by an investment group headed by Al Checchi and Gary Wilson, KLM, and many others. In 1993, Northwest entered its cooperative agreement with KLM, which was the largest airline partnership ever conceived at the time. Northwest gradually pulled out of its minor European destinations and focused its attention on the domestic and Asian markets once more. In the early 2000s, Northwest Airlines acquired a reputation of refusing to adopt industry-wide rate increases that had been accepted by other United States airlines. This changed in March 2005, when Northwest adupted rate hikes in response to rising oil prices. ==Aviation incidents== There have been few major incidents involving Northwest aircraft. On March 12, 1948 Northwest Airlines flight 4422 crashed into Mount Sanford Alaska. The flight was a DC-4 military charter enroute back to the US from Shanghai that had just refueled at Anchorage. Many witnesses in the nearby town of Gulkana saw the crash but the wreckage was lost for over 50 years. Snowstorms quickly buried its exact location in a mountain glacier. Over the years various individuals lured by rumors of a secret gold cargo shipment searched the mountain and came home empty handed. Northwest pilot Marc Millican and Delta pilot Kevin McGregor had been searching the mountain together and on their own since 1995. In 1997 they located a few pieces of wreckage but were unable to confirm it was from Northwest 4422. Only in 1999 after obtaining permission from the park service and victims relatives were they able to remove wreckage that confirmed it was indeed from this flight. No secret treasure was ever found. At the time of the crash it was determined the pilots were 23 miles off course and may not have seen the mountain at night. NTSB investigation in 1999 shows both propellers were spinning at high velocity when they struck the mountain supporting this theory. The disappearance of Northwest Airlines Flight 2501 on June 23, 1950, over Lake Michigan has never been solved. On August 16, 1987, Northwest Airlines Flight 255 crashed on takeoff from Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport. All aboard the Douglas DC-9 were killed except for one young girl. Three Northwest aircraft were targeted in the failed Operation Bojinka terrorism plot of 1995. Also related to terrorism, just before the September 11, 2001 attacks, Zacarias Moussaoui (who was later labeled as a possible "20th hijacker" by the news media) was arrested after attempting to use a flight simulator operated by Northwest. In 1990, three crew members were intoxicated when they flew their Boeing 727 airliner from Fargo, North Dakota to MSP airport in the Twin Cities. Another incident occurred in January 2001 when a pilot flew a DC-10 from San Antonio, Texas to MSP. Upon landing, he had a 0.056% blood alcohol content level, above the Federal Aviation Administration limit. He was soon fired. British Airways, America West, Delta, and many other airlines have had to deal with this issue. In 2004, pilots on a Northwest Airlines flight mistakenly landed at Ellsworth AFB instead of at the Rapid City airport. Passengers aboard were asked to close their window shades by the US Air Force. In 2005 a Northwest DC-10 enroute from Mumbai (Bombay) to Amsterdam diverted to Mehrabad Airport in Tehran Iran. A warning light indicated there was a problem in the cargo hold. Precautionary diversions are not uncommon but this was the first US airliner to land in Iran since the revolution. ==Fleet== Northwest currently has one of the oldest fleets of all major air carriers, with an average airframe age of 18.3 years across the fleet. This is due to its large fleet of DC-9s dating from the 1970s and 1980s. Excluding its DC-9 fleet, its average fleet age is 9.9 years [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1058033/000110465905009167/a05-3135_110k.htm]. Though the airframes may be aging, the interiors of its DC-9 fleet aren't terribly old; Northwest refurbished them in the mid-1990s. Northwest's relative financial stability compared to other North American carriers has been attributed to its retention of its older planes [http://www.freep.com/money/business/fleet24_20040124.htm]. Even so, Northwest's DC-9s are being retired at a rate of about 10 a year as they reach their maximum flight ratings [http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050222/BIZ/502210318/1001]. Exactly how the airline will replace them in the long run is still an open question, but at present Northwest seems to be moving towards a solution using Bombardier Canadair Regional Jet operated by its Northwest Airlink subsidiaries [http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5292560.html]. Northwest introduced the Boeing 747-400 in 1989 and plans to be the first U.S.-based Boeing 787 operator in 2008. All of Northwest's aircraft have a two-class configuration: coach and first class on domestic routes, coach and World Business Class on international routes. Northwest's A330s and 747-451s have the first flat reclining seats in business class on any American airline. The A330s also have televisions on the back of every coach seat. {| !Type !Total !Passengers
(First/Coach) !Routes |- |Boeing 747 |16 |403 (65/338) |New York-Tokyo-Hong Kong, Detroit-Tokyo-Shanghai, Minneapolis-Tokyo-Manila, Detroit-Nagoya-Manila, Detroit-Osaka-Taipei, Honolulu-Tokyo |- |Boeing 747 |6 |353 (67/286) US-Japan
430 (30/400) Pacific islands |Los Angeles-Tokyo, Honolulu-Tokyo, Guam-Tokyo |- |Airbus A330 |8 |298 (34/264) |Detroit-Frankfurt, Detroit-Paris, Detroit-Amsterdam, Boston-Amsterdam |- |Airbus A330 |7 |243 (32/211) |Seattle-Tokyo-Seoul, Tokyo-Beijing, Portland-Tokyo-Singapore, San Francisco-Tokyo-Bangkok |- |McDonnell Douglas DC-10 |22 |273 (26/247) |Minneapolis-Amsterdam-Mumbai, Detroit-London, Honolulu-Osaka, Seattle-Amsterdam, Minneapolis-Honolulu |- |Boeing 757 |16 |224 (24/200) |San Francisco-Honolulu; domestic routes |- |Boeing 757 |56 |180 (22/158)
or 184 (22/162) US
182 (20/162) int'l |Saipan-Nagoya-Tokyo, Tokyo-Busan, Tokyo-Guangzhou; domestic routes |- |Airbus A320 |78 |148 (16/132) |domestic routes |- |Airbus A319 |70 |124 (16/108) |domestic routes |- |Douglas DC-9 |35 |125 (16/109) |domestic routes |- |Douglas DC-9 |12 |110 (16/94) |domestic routes |- |Douglas DC-9 |112 |100 (16/84) |domestic routes |- |Boeing 787 |18 orders,
50 options |221 (36/185) |Entry into service: 2008 in aviation First Route to be New York - Tokyo |} Northwest also operates twelve Boeing 747 freighters. ==Destinations== ''See article:'' Northwest Airlines destinations ==Frequent flyer program== "WorldPerks" is Northwest Airlines' reward program for frequent fliers, offering travelers the ability to obtain free First Class upgrades on flights or numerous other types of rewards. Customer accumulate miles from actual flight segments they fly on or through Northwest's partners, such as car rental companies. These miles can then be redeemed for upgrades or free tickets. ==References== *"Pilots Who Flew Drunk are Sentenced to Prison". (October 27, 1990). ''St. Louis Post-Dispatch'', p. 7A. Retrieved March 21, 2005 from LexisNexis. *Moylan, Martin J. "NWA to trim mechanics jobs". (March 17, 2005). ''Detroit Free Press''. http://www.freep.com/money/business/nwa17e_20050317.htm *"Using Old DC-9s Pays Off for Northwest". (February 20, 2005). ''Associated Press''.[http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050220/old_planes_4.html] **http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/upclose/ == External links == * [http://www.nwa.com Northwest Airlines Corporate Site] * [http://mileguide.com/nw.shtml Guide to earning miles on Northwest Airlines] Airline companies of the United States Companies traded on NASDAQ Companies based in Minnesota
==Oldest Fleet?== I'm pretty sure the claim "operates the oldest airline fleet in the world" isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure that Midwest Airlines planes (prior to their 717s they had almost entirely a fleet of 20+ year old planes) has older planes, and if we look at foreign carriers I'm positive there are some old planes flying (having myself flown on DC-3s in the third world...). We should fix this, but some hard numbers would be nice... User:Kaszeta 13:49, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC) :"Oldest fleet of any major international airline" is probably a better way to put it. User:Sekicho 00:35, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC) Northwest Airlines fleet age average is 18 years ONLY because of it's VERY SMART move in keeping it's DC-9s. Otherwise it's fleet is only 9.7, one of the YOUNGEST in the WORLD! People who like to constantly harp about how OLD NWA's fleet is should note that NWA is also the MOST financially stable of the U.S. carriers. ::It is 9.9 years. Since you have twice added misinformation to this article, I've tagged it for review. Just so nobody forgets (including me), we need to re-add the drunk flying information which blueflyer removed. User:Rhobite 07:10, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) Rhobite,read the article and much to your (If the DC9s are not counted, Northwest's average age would be 9.7 years. The average age of the DC9s was about 33 years.) disapointment the age is 9.7. Furthermore, your drunk flying information is clear vandelism and far from neutral, you have attempted to place NWA in a negative light. Unless you have definitive sources for the statement on the drunk flying I would be very careful about placing erroneous information about a corporation. You have placed MISINFORMATION on this article numerous times.Your biased attempt to place NWA in a negative light will not go un challenged. Use facts, stop the misinformation. :As I have provided a reference for the drunk flying incident, please stop removing it from the article. What you are doing is simply whitewashing information which you don't like. According to NWAC's 2004 annual report, the average age would be 9.9 years, not 9.7 years. Many of your additions (such as putting the takeover year at 1987) have been wrong. User:Rhobite 07:47, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) :And on another note, the "most financially stable" is a ludicrous thing to say considering Southwest's history of profitability. Superlatives like this are not allowed under our neutral point of view policy, anyway. User:Rhobite 07:49, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) ::Blueflyer, you are the one who is refusing to cite sources. Please cite a source for the 9.7 years, and one for the "43 quarters" statement. Particularly, please tell me how a 20-year period only contains 43 quarters. And please tell me why you are continuing to remove the verified paragraph about the pilots flying while drunk. User:Rhobite 07:56, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) Is there a reason why you need to point out the percentage of traffic at MSP and not any other hub. Furthermore, Tokyo is a HUB for Northwest. The article noted in the run states 9.7. It is clear that you choose to point out selective negatives about NWA (sounds personal) I will continue to point out the positive. :I didn't write the MSP thing. I don't see how it's negative to mention. Is it wrong? In general, please do not remove information if it's correct and phrased neutrally. Please read the 2004 annual report - it clearly says 9.9 years. Don't accuse me of anything, I'm just trying to keep you from whitewashing this article. I wouldn't say you're "pointing out the positive", more like deleting the negative. User:Rhobite 08:26, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) ::It's not about pointing out the negative or positive or anything else -- it's about presenting an encyclopedic, accurate view of an airline. If Northwest's in financial turmoil, then it should be part of the article (don't be offended -- ALL scheduled airlines are besides Southwest, the only airline in the black last year). If some of its pilots flew drunk (they did), it should be included. If its planes are old (they are -- see this Philly Inquirer story [http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/7796417.htm]), it should be included. The truth hurts sometimes. User:Katefan0 21:08, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) ::*Rhobite, I noted you erased the DC-9 AP ref; I found a Web ref for it and put it back in. User:Katefan0 21:30, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) ::*Here is a ref from the Miami Herald that mentions a Northwest pilot fired in 2001 for flying drunk. [http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/3583210.htm] User:Katefan0 21:33, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) Give me a break! Rhobite, every article you ref. about NWA, you worked OVERTIME focusing on the negative. The truth DOES hurt when NWA is the ONLY major airline stable (esp. if you hate'em) SW is NOT a major..the top 6 that fly the globe are considered majors. I like NWA and think it is in a FAR better position than the others. Too bad a bitter ex- employee or passenger needs to spend time trying to place it in a bad light. I didn't take 2 seconds to realize your intentions. You conviently left out the biggest part of the DC-9 article to focus on the OLD. That trash about the pilots flying drunk has NOTHING to do with it's operational stats. EVERY airline / company has a few dumb employees. Every other airline article on wiki is about the airline NOT it's rare dumb employee. Your passion to post that trash is nothing less than SPAM. Furthermore, you had better familiarize yourself with the 3 deletion rule. Lets see: NWA helped establish Japan airlines, Launched the 747-400, has acceted delivery of over 200 new aircraft since 2000, has the longest running history of profits of ANY airline prior to 1987, presently NWA has $2.4 Billion in cash TWICE what other airlines it's size or bigger have, NWA owns more of it's fleet than any other American airline, the "OLD" DC-9's were originally designed as millitary jets (built like tanks). Enjoy Rhobite...so much for the drunk pilot and the old planes.(sniker)But, I am sure you will feel, that we the public, would be more interested in your stupid dribble. ::Man, it went from a discussion between people with differing opinions to just plain mudslinging. How disgusting. With regard to the actual disagreement, it seemed to me that blueflyer's additions/deletions almost read like marketing materials for the company. However, I don't see how the drunk pilot thing is really very encyclopedic. If there's a systematic problem within the company, then that's one thing, but a couple isolated incidents just doesn't seem to be worthy of inclusion. User:Kmccoy User_talk:Kmccoy 04:19, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) Kmcoy :"it seemed to me that blueflyer's additions/deletions almost read like marketing materials for the company" Kmcoy, I am rolling on the floor laughing! Was I a wee bit fed up...yeah. Sorry. I like the outfit. Great history, well run, global reach. :::KMccoy -- I can see a case being made for not including the drunk flying info, though I tend to err on the "include" side. However, the rest of the unflattering info is perfectly valid for inclusion. Blueflyer has an obvious and admitted bias toward Northwest and I agree with you that his contributions/deletions seem more in line with a marketing campaign than an effort at presenting an unbiased (and unvarnished) view of the company. Also, Blueflyer, can you please sign your comments? It's easy, just type four tildes in a row. Your personal info will get filled in. User:Katefan0 16:44, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) Flattering or Un-flattering that is in the eyes of the beholder. Rhobite preferred to include ONLY negative parts of an article and I preferred to do the opposite. Operational FACTS are hardly BIASED. Clearly, as much as I like NWA...it apears that Rhobite did not. Take ya pick. The information that I attempted to place in the article is the SAME info that is in EVERY OTHER airline article on here. Frankly, there is not that much differenc in 12.5 years and 18.3 when it comes to aircraft.. Most people might "get it". When someone focuses on "drunk pilots" "old planes" it can't be because this is an un biased view could it? As noted later, NWA is not the ONLY carrier this has happened to. Yet when one places the SAME info about NWA such as it's reputation for profits as a well run company...it's biased. Gotcha ya!--User:Blueflyer 17:37, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) **Instead of throwing around these sorts of accusations and virtually pouting and stomping your feet, why don't you say what exactly you think should also be included in the article? What, exactly, is not being highlighted that should be, and can you provide a source for the information? User:Katefan0 18:41, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) Watch it! \"Instead of throwing around these sorts of accusations and virtually pouting and stomping your feet\". You wanna get personal" You wanna get personal you might get your feelings hurt. Who made you busy body queen to deciede what is biased and what is not. The article is fine now...as it is. It was NOT...the way it was. The information that I placed in the article was directly from the article that referenced the "old" planes. As well as NWA.com(history), Japan Airlines.com (history), NWA '04/ 10k. The article should be balanced in the SAME manner as all other airline articles...NONE of which rant about isolated employee behavior or how OLD a portion of it's fleet is.--User:Blueflyer 21:13, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) **You know, I was encouraging you, Blueflyer, to make an argument for what you felt needed to be changed/added. I was prepared to advocate making those changes if I agreed with them. What was your response? More ad hominem (and this time, disgustingly sexist) attacks. Wikipedia articles are made by Wikipedia:Consensus. That gives me just as much right to weigh in as anyone else, including -- surprise -- you. And by the way, it takes more than this to hurt my feelings or make me angry. Not so, apparently, for you. User:Katefan0 21:43, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) "More ad hominem (and this time, disgustingly sexist) attacks" From a female named Blueflyer..back at ya sister. Keep your little "pouting and stomping your feet" comments out of a decent reply and perhaps you can be taken seriously. I don't care if it is NWA or SW or Continental, who cares about the behavior of a few employees? Should we make this a standard for ALL airlines? I fly many many airlines in this country and NWA by FAR is one of the best. If people don't like my view (backed up by the FACTS of the company's 10k) too bad. The SEC seems to approve of it.--User:Blueflyer 21:58, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) **I'll simply point out that sexism isn't the exclusive domain of men (witness Ann Coulter). Other than that I don't have much else to say, except that I still don't understand what you think is inadequate in the article. User:Katefan0 22:01, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) *Blueflyer, please cite your source for the 43 quarters of profit statement. You've repeatedly added it and it is not in the 10K. In case I missed it, please cite a page number. On another note, people really need to calm down. This is getting personal. User:Rhobite 22:14, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) **Considering whom you referenced "Ann Coulter" explains your comment of ""pouting and stomping your feet". That mentality goes hand in hand. I'd use her book to line my trash can. I will post the reference for NWA history of profitability.--User:Blueflyer 22:21, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) ***Just to be clear: my above statement was intended to be critical of Ann Coulter, who says some horrible things about women. Anyway, I never intended this to get quite to this point so if anything I said personally offended anybody, I extend my apology. I meant the stomping feet comment to describe petulance, but in retrospect that phraseology was maybe a bit too colorful. I stand behind the basic sentiment though. User:Katefan0 22:28, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) *Ditto.--User:Blueflyer 22:46, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) ==Fourth largest== It seems to me like the history Blueflyer is adding is valid for inclusion. It just needs to be paraphrased so it's not a cut and paste job. User:Katefan0 23:26, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) *Done. Also, I think since we are equally split between people who think the drunk flying info should be included and people who do not, maybe it should be removed until a consensus is formed. User:Katefan0 17:05, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC) ** No, it should stay. It's a tiny 3-sentence paragraph which is verifiable and neutral. Please keep it. User:Rhobite 19:10, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC) ***I appreciate your opinion (especially since I agree with it), but we have two others on this talk page who've disagreed. What else would you propose? User:Katefan0 19:32, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC) ****As an outsider, I'd say remove the drunk flying stuff from ''this article''. I see nothing wrong with it in an article on airline safety, but unless anyone has evidence that it was any more likely to happen to this airline than any other, I don't see it has a place here. Just because it's true doesn't mean it should be on this page; it's true that I flew on Northwestern in the 90's and I can prove it, but that fact shouldn't go on this page either. User:AdamW 19:39, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC) *****I guess that's an option. If it's not in here, it should be discussed somewhere. Between British Airways, America West, and Northwest there is enough of a history of news coverage to merit an article about drunk flying incidents. Or it could be worked into air safety but it seems relatively minor when compared to the disasters in that article. We should also have an article about Lyle Prouse, the pilot in the 1990 Northwest incident. Prouse is notable because he quit drinking and returned to flying for Northwest after he got out of jail. Also, President Clinton pardoned him before leaving office. User:Rhobite 20:06, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC) ******I think that's an excellent option, if someone's willing to take it on. I'm not sure it really rises to the level of having its own article (it's not exactly epidemic), so I would support it as an addition to air safety. User:Katefan0 16:27, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC) *******I moved it to air safety. User:Kmccoy User_talk:Kmccoy 06:16, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC) *Exploding whales are also not epidemic, but that's not a criteria for being encyclopedic. Unfortunately I have no time to write a drunk-flying article but I do support its existence. User:Rhobite 20:25, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC) **I think scope is certainly a factor in whether something is encyclopedic enough to warrant its own article. User:Katefan0 04:40, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC) ==Hong Kong Airport== Re: User:Huaiwei: Format of Chinese airports shld be standardised Hong Kong maintains its own economic policies, and reserves its capacity to come up with civil aviation agreements with other countries at its own. It is an independent member at aviation organisations. Hong Kong is independent member at civil aviation organisations and airport council, and maintains its own economic policies. It comes up with bilateral aviation agreements at its own. Hong Kong-mainland China and Macau-mainland China flights are considered non-domestic (i.e. international) and reaches international but not domestic airports, such as Pudong but not Hongqiao at Shanghai. Hong Kong, Macau and mainland China should each have separate listings. :As I have mentioned in the Cathay talk page, the destination listing is a listing of countries, not of aviation councils. "The solution, then, is to add the drunk flying information to the other articles. Not to remove it from here. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you, once you register for an account. · Katefan0(scribble" Whey is that a solution? When someone singles out entity (airline) to focus on someting NEGATIVE. I also notice that NO OTHER airline has mentioned the AGE of aircraft or "Aviation Incidents". Sure SOUNDS like a HUGE BIAS to me. I think this whole thing should be sent to the board, esp. how it has been handled, seems like pretty poor taste. This gives Wiki a bad name PERIOD! ==Request for comment== I saw a Wikipedia:Requests for comment in relation to an incident here. What's up with that? Also, why is the factual and neutrality of the article being disputed? --User:Spinboy 19:26, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC) :There was a user editing this article who was adding misinformation and removing negative information about NWA. For instance saying that Northwest has been profitable for 43 straight quarters (or years), claiming that the average fleet age is 8.5 years excluding the DC-9's (it's actually 9.9), praising Northwest for "wise" decisions, etc. See the entries above on this talk page. I think we can probably remove the tag if Blueflyer agrees to stop adding information without citing a source. User:Rhobite 20:23, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC) ::If they can't cite it, then yeah, remove the tag. --User:Spinboy 21:24, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::: The drunken incident needs to be put on the article. I remember that even The Arizona Republic made fun of it by placing a comic with two NWA pilots drinking wine as they asked for permission to take off so it was a big thing. I think that if we can combine the positive and negative facts, as long as they are facts, then the article is neutral. But we have to teach rookie editors to try to be neutral. After all, I was like that once too! I mean, I love Delta Airlines, for example, and , that does not mean that I will remove info about their 1985 crash in Dallas! That was a fact, its part of the company's history. -- "User:AntonioMartin" Where do you see that they posted 8.5? Are the issues with drunk pilots at OTHER airlines included in the sections? Rohobert you seem to be hung up on a "I hate NWA" trip. NO OTHER AIRLINE i.e. BA, AWA, UAL has mentioned the episodes of drunken pilots. Sounds personal to me. REMOVE IT!"But we have to teach rookie editors to try to be neutral" Take some of your amaturish advice and place the same info for ALL airlines and perhaps you would grasp the term NEUTRAL. *The solution, then, is to add the drunk flying information to the other articles. Not to remove it from here. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you, once you register for an account. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 04:46, May 22, 2005 (UTC)I see...sounds like "neutral" input. This stuff has NO baring on one company or the other. Unless the "pros" are willing to place it in British Airways, Delta, America West, Air France, and the list goes on. This is trivial garbage. The solution is to remove it from the post. For the record NORTHEST was NOT the FIRST airline to report it. Other than that it is great information that is interesting to read. Rhobite, I have read many other articles on many other airlines on Wiki...THIS ONE by far smacks of an unbiased slant to negative. I think you ought to leave your personal issues out of the profile. I say Robite is a disgruntled passenger or crybaby ex employee. I AGREE with BLUEFLYER! It DOESN'T belong on here!!!!! There NEEDS to be a standard as to what catagories is included for ALL airlines, or industries. Peoples pesonal bias should not be used. Most of us could care less about the BS that Robite has put in here. It is not like Northwest is the ONLY airline that this has happened to. Northwest is not the ONLY airline that flies old airplanes. Wiki is losing it's appeal if this stuff starts to creep in.
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|} Northwest Airlines is an airline headquartered in Eagan, Minnesota, with three major hubs in the United States: Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport, Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport, and Memphis International Airport. Northwest also operates flights from a hub in Asia from Narita International Airport near Tokyo, as well as flights to India from Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam. Northwest is currently the world's fourth largest airline in terms of RPK (revenue-passenger-kilometers). In addition to operating one of the largest domestic route networks in the U.S., Northwest carries more passengers across the Pacific (5.1 million in 2004) than any other U.S. carrier, and carries more air cargo than any other passenger airline. Northwest Airlines' regional flights are operated under the name Northwest Airlink. In September 2004, Northwest joined the SkyTeam Alliance along with its long-time partners, KLM and Continental Airlines. (Northwest was formerly part of the Wings Alliance). Its frequent flyer program is called WorldPerks. == History == Northwest Airlines was founded in 1926 by Col. Lewis Brittin, under the name Northwest Airways. Like other early airlines, Northwest's focus was not in hauling passengers, but in flying mail for the U.S. Postal Service. The fledgling airline established a mail route between Minneapolis and Chicago, using open cockpit biplanes such as the Curtiss Aeroplane and Motor Company Oriole. Northwest did not begin flying passengers until 1927. In 1928, the airline started its first international route with service to Winnipeg, Canada. The airline's operations were expanded to smaller cities in the region by the end of the decade. In 1933, Northwest was designated to fly the Northern Transcontinental Route from New York City to Seattle, Washington: it adopted the name Northwest Airlines the following year. Northwest stock began to be publicly traded in 1941. During World War II, Northwest flew military equipment and personnel from the continental United States to Alaska. This experience led the government to designate Northwest as the United States' main North Pacific carrier following the war. In 1947, Northwest became the first U.S. airline to fly to Japan, using Boeing 377 from Seattle (direct) and Chicago, Illinois (via Anchorage, Alaska). From Tokyo, Northwest flights continued to Shanghai, Manila, and Hong Kong. (Taipei replaced Shanghai after the revolution of 1949.) With its new routes, the airline rebranded itself as Northwest Orient Airlines. In 1951, Northwest helped establish Japan Airlines by leasing its aircraft and crew to the new company. Northwest remains the largest non-Japanese carrier at Tokyo's Narita Airport, with flights to 15 cities in Asia including Seoul, Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Singapore. After airline deregulation, Northwest began direct flights to other Asian cities, and gradually strengthened its presence in the southern United States. It also began flying to United Kingdom, Ireland, Germany, and Scandinavia. In 1985, Northwest purchased Republic Airlines and adopted its three-hub network centered around Minneapolis, Detroit, and Memphis. Northwest returned to its original name with the merger. Northwest was purchased in a 1989 leveraged buyout by an investment group headed by Al Checchi and Gary Wilson, KLM, and many others. In 1993, Northwest entered its cooperative agreement with KLM, which was the largest airline partnership ever conceived at the time. Northwest gradually pulled out of its minor European destinations and focused its attention on the domestic and Asian markets once more. In the early 2000s, Northwest Airlines acquired a reputation of refusing to adopt industry-wide rate increases that had been accepted by other United States airlines. This changed in March 2005, when Northwest adupted rate hikes in response to rising oil prices. ==Aviation incidents== There have been few major incidents involving Northwest aircraft. On March 12, 1948 Northwest Airlines flight 4422 crashed into Mount Sanford Alaska. The flight was a DC-4 military charter enroute back to the US from Shanghai that had just refueled at Anchorage. Many witnesses in the nearby town of Gulkana saw the crash but the wreckage was lost for over 50 years. Snowstorms quickly buried its exact location in a mountain glacier. Over the years various individuals lured by rumors of a secret gold cargo shipment searched the mountain and came home empty handed. Northwest pilot Marc Millican and Delta pilot Kevin McGregor had been searching the mountain together and on their own since 1995. In 1997 they located a few pieces of wreckage but were unable to confirm it was from Northwest 4422. Only in 1999 after obtaining permission from the park service and victims relatives were they able to remove wreckage that confirmed it was indeed from this flight. No secret treasure was ever found. At the time of the crash it was determined the pilots were 23 miles off course and may not have seen the mountain at night. NTSB investigation in 1999 shows both propellers were spinning at high velocity when they struck the mountain supporting this theory. The disappearance of Northwest Airlines Flight 2501 on June 23, 1950, over Lake Michigan has never been solved. On August 16, 1987, Northwest Airlines Flight 255 crashed on takeoff from Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport. All aboard the Douglas DC-9 were killed except for one young girl. Three Northwest aircraft were targeted in the failed Operation Bojinka terrorism plot of 1995. Also related to terrorism, just before the September 11, 2001 attacks, Zacarias Moussaoui (who was later labeled as a possible "20th hijacker" by the news media) was arrested after attempting to use a flight simulator operated by Northwest. In 1990, three crew members were intoxicated when they flew their Boeing 727 airliner from Fargo, North Dakota to MSP airport in the Twin Cities. Another incident occurred in January 2001 when a pilot flew a DC-10 from San Antonio, Texas to MSP. Upon landing, he had a 0.056% blood alcohol content level, above the Federal Aviation Administration limit. He was soon fired. British Airways, America West, Delta, and many other airlines have had to deal with this issue. In 2004, pilots on a Northwest Airlines flight mistakenly landed at Ellsworth AFB instead of at the Rapid City airport. Passengers aboard were asked to close their window shades by the US Air Force. In 2005 a Northwest DC-10 enroute from Mumbai (Bombay) to Amsterdam diverted to Mehrabad Airport in Tehran Iran. A warning light indicated there was a problem in the cargo hold. Precautionary diversions are not uncommon but this was the first US airliner to land in Iran since the revolution. ==Fleet== Northwest currently has one of the oldest fleets of all major air carriers, with an average airframe age of 18.3 years across the fleet. This is due to its large fleet of DC-9s dating from the 1970s and 1980s. Excluding its DC-9 fleet, its average fleet age is 9.9 years [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1058033/000110465905009167/a05-3135_110k.htm]. Though the airframes may be aging, the interiors of its DC-9 fleet aren't terribly old; Northwest refurbished them in the mid-1990s. Northwest's relative financial stability compared to other North American carriers has been attributed to its retention of its older planes [http://www.freep.com/money/business/fleet24_20040124.htm]. Even so, Northwest's DC-9s are being retired at a rate of about 10 a year as they reach their maximum flight ratings [http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050222/BIZ/502210318/1001]. Exactly how the airline will replace them in the long run is still an open question, but at present Northwest seems to be moving towards a solution using Bombardier Canadair Regional Jet operated by its Northwest Airlink subsidiaries [http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5292560.html]. Northwest introduced the Boeing 747-400 in 1989 and plans to be the first U.S.-based Boeing 787 operator in 2008. All of Northwest's aircraft have a two-class configuration: coach and first class on domestic routes, coach and World Business Class on international routes. Northwest's A330s and 747-451s have the first flat reclining seats in business class on any American airline. The A330s also have televisions on the back of every coach seat. {| !Type !Total !Passengers
(First/Coach) !Routes |- |Boeing 747 |16 |403 (65/338) |New York-Tokyo-Hong Kong, Detroit-Tokyo-Shanghai, Minneapolis-Tokyo-Manila, Detroit-Nagoya-Manila, Detroit-Osaka-Taipei, Honolulu-Tokyo |- |Boeing 747 |6 |353 (67/286) US-Japan
430 (30/400) Pacific islands |Los Angeles-Tokyo, Honolulu-Tokyo, Guam-Tokyo |- |Airbus A330 |8 |298 (34/264) |Detroit-Frankfurt, Detroit-Paris, Detroit-Amsterdam, Boston-Amsterdam |- |Airbus A330 |7 |243 (32/211) |Seattle-Tokyo-Seoul, Tokyo-Beijing, Portland-Tokyo-Singapore, San Francisco-Tokyo-Bangkok |- |McDonnell Douglas DC-10 |22 |273 (26/247) |Minneapolis-Amsterdam-Mumbai, Detroit-London, Honolulu-Osaka, Seattle-Amsterdam, Minneapolis-Honolulu |- |Boeing 757 |16 |224 (24/200) |San Francisco-Honolulu; domestic routes |- |Boeing 757 |56 |180 (22/158)
or 184 (22/162) US
182 (20/162) int'l |Saipan-Nagoya-Tokyo, Tokyo-Busan, Tokyo-Guangzhou; domestic routes |- |Airbus A320 |78 |148 (16/132) |domestic routes |- |Airbus A319 |70 |124 (16/108) |domestic routes |- |Douglas DC-9 |35 |125 (16/109) |domestic routes |- |Douglas DC-9 |12 |110 (16/94) |domestic routes |- |Douglas DC-9 |112 |100 (16/84) |domestic routes |- |Boeing 787 |18 orders,
50 options |221 (36/185) |Entry into service: 2008 in aviation First Route to be New York - Tokyo |} Northwest also operates twelve Boeing 747 freighters. ==Destinations== ''See article:'' Northwest Airlines destinations ==Frequent flyer program== "WorldPerks" is Northwest Airlines' reward program for frequent fliers, offering travelers the ability to obtain free First Class upgrades on flights or numerous other types of rewards. Customer accumulate miles from actual flight segments they fly on or through Northwest's partners, such as car rental companies. These miles can then be redeemed for upgrades or free tickets. ==References== *"Pilots Who Flew Drunk are Sentenced to Prison". (October 27, 1990). ''St. Louis Post-Dispatch'', p. 7A. Retrieved March 21, 2005 from LexisNexis. *Moylan, Martin J. "NWA to trim mechanics jobs". (March 17, 2005). ''Detroit Free Press''. http://www.freep.com/money/business/nwa17e_20050317.htm *"Using Old DC-9s Pays Off for Northwest". (February 20, 2005). ''Associated Press''.[http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050220/old_planes_4.html] **http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/upclose/ == External links == * [http://www.nwa.com Northwest Airlines Corporate Site] * [http://mileguide.com/nw.shtml Guide to earning miles on Northwest Airlines] Airline companies of the United States Companies traded on NASDAQ Companies based in Minnesota
Northwest Airlines
==Oldest Fleet?== I'm pretty sure the claim "operates the oldest airline fleet in the world" isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure that Midwest Airlines planes (prior to their 717s they had almost entirely a fleet of 20+ year old planes) has older planes, and if we look at foreign carriers I'm positive there are some old planes flying (having myself flown on DC-3s in the third world...). We should fix this, but some hard numbers would be nice... User:Kaszeta 13:49, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC) :"Oldest fleet of any major international airline" is probably a better way to put it. User:Sekicho 00:35, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC) Northwest Airlines fleet age average is 18 years ONLY because of it's VERY SMART move in keeping it's DC-9s. Otherwise it's fleet is only 9.7, one of the YOUNGEST in the WORLD! People who like to constantly harp about how OLD NWA's fleet is should note that NWA is also the MOST financially stable of the U.S. carriers. ::It is 9.9 years. Since you have twice added misinformation to this article, I've tagged it for review. Just so nobody forgets (including me), we need to re-add the drunk flying information which blueflyer removed. User:Rhobite 07:10, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) Rhobite,read the article and much to your (If the DC9s are not counted, Northwest's average age would be 9.7 years. The average age of the DC9s was about 33 years.) disapointment the age is 9.7. Furthermore, your drunk flying information is clear vandelism and far from neutral, you have attempted to place NWA in a negative light. Unless you have definitive sources for the statement on the drunk flying I would be very careful about placing erroneous information about a corporation. You have placed MISINFORMATION on this article numerous times.Your biased attempt to place NWA in a negative light will not go un challenged. Use facts, stop the misinformation. :As I have provided a reference for the drunk flying incident, please stop removing it from the article. What you are doing is simply whitewashing information which you don't like. According to NWAC's 2004 annual report, the average age would be 9.9 years, not 9.7 years. Many of your additions (such as putting the takeover year at 1987) have been wrong. User:Rhobite 07:47, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) :And on another note, the "most financially stable" is a ludicrous thing to say considering Southwest's history of profitability. Superlatives like this are not allowed under our neutral point of view policy, anyway. User:Rhobite 07:49, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) ::Blueflyer, you are the one who is refusing to cite sources. Please cite a source for the 9.7 years, and one for the "43 quarters" statement. Particularly, please tell me how a 20-year period only contains 43 quarters. And please tell me why you are continuing to remove the verified paragraph about the pilots flying while drunk. User:Rhobite 07:56, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) Is there a reason why you need to point out the percentage of traffic at MSP and not any other hub. Furthermore, Tokyo is a HUB for Northwest. The article noted in the run states 9.7. It is clear that you choose to point out selective negatives about NWA (sounds personal) I will continue to point out the positive. :I didn't write the MSP thing. I don't see how it's negative to mention. Is it wrong? In general, please do not remove information if it's correct and phrased neutrally. Please read the 2004 annual report - it clearly says 9.9 years. Don't accuse me of anything, I'm just trying to keep you from whitewashing this article. I wouldn't say you're "pointing out the positive", more like deleting the negative. User:Rhobite 08:26, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) ::It's not about pointing out the negative or positive or anything else -- it's about presenting an encyclopedic, accurate view of an airline. If Northwest's in financial turmoil, then it should be part of the article (don't be offended -- ALL scheduled airlines are besides Southwest, the only airline in the black last year). If some of its pilots flew drunk (they did), it should be included. If its planes are old (they are -- see this Philly Inquirer story [http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/7796417.htm]), it should be included. The truth hurts sometimes. User:Katefan0 21:08, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) ::*Rhobite, I noted you erased the DC-9 AP ref; I found a Web ref for it and put it back in. User:Katefan0 21:30, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) ::*Here is a ref from the Miami Herald that mentions a Northwest pilot fired in 2001 for flying drunk. [http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/3583210.htm] User:Katefan0 21:33, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC) Give me a break! Rhobite, every article you ref. about NWA, you worked OVERTIME focusing on the negative. The truth DOES hurt when NWA is the ONLY major airline stable (esp. if you hate'em) SW is NOT a major..the top 6 that fly the globe are considered majors. I like NWA and think it is in a FAR better position than the others. Too bad a bitter ex- employee or passenger needs to spend time trying to place it in a bad light. I didn't take 2 seconds to realize your intentions. You conviently left out the biggest part of the DC-9 article to focus on the OLD. That trash about the pilots flying drunk has NOTHING to do with it's operational stats. EVERY airline / company has a few dumb employees. Every other airline article on wiki is about the airline NOT it's rare dumb employee. Your passion to post that trash is nothing less than SPAM. Furthermore, you had better familiarize yourself with the 3 deletion rule. Lets see: NWA helped establish Japan airlines, Launched the 747-400, has acceted delivery of over 200 new aircraft since 2000, has the longest running history of profits of ANY airline prior to 1987, presently NWA has $2.4 Billion in cash TWICE what other airlines it's size or bigger have, NWA owns more of it's fleet than any other American airline, the "OLD" DC-9's were originally designed as millitary jets (built like tanks). Enjoy Rhobite...so much for the drunk pilot and the old planes.(sniker)But, I am sure you will feel, that we the public, would be more interested in your stupid dribble. ::Man, it went from a discussion between people with differing opinions to just plain mudslinging. How disgusting. With regard to the actual disagreement, it seemed to me that blueflyer's additions/deletions almost read like marketing materials for the company. However, I don't see how the drunk pilot thing is really very encyclopedic. If there's a systematic problem within the company, then that's one thing, but a couple isolated incidents just doesn't seem to be worthy of inclusion. User:Kmccoy User_talk:Kmccoy 04:19, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) Kmcoy :"it seemed to me that blueflyer's additions/deletions almost read like marketing materials for the company" Kmcoy, I am rolling on the floor laughing! Was I a wee bit fed up...yeah. Sorry. I like the outfit. Great history, well run, global reach. :::KMccoy -- I can see a case being made for not including the drunk flying info, though I tend to err on the "include" side. However, the rest of the unflattering info is perfectly valid for inclusion. Blueflyer has an obvious and admitted bias toward Northwest and I agree with you that his contributions/deletions seem more in line with a marketing campaign than an effort at presenting an unbiased (and unvarnished) view of the company. Also, Blueflyer, can you please sign your comments? It's easy, just type four tildes in a row. Your personal info will get filled in. User:Katefan0 16:44, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) Flattering or Un-flattering that is in the eyes of the beholder. Rhobite preferred to include ONLY negative parts of an article and I preferred to do the opposite. Operational FACTS are hardly BIASED. Clearly, as much as I like NWA...it apears that Rhobite did not. Take ya pick. The information that I attempted to place in the article is the SAME info that is in EVERY OTHER airline article on here. Frankly, there is not that much differenc in 12.5 years and 18.3 when it comes to aircraft.. Most people might "get it". When someone focuses on "drunk pilots" "old planes" it can't be because this is an un biased view could it? As noted later, NWA is not the ONLY carrier this has happened to. Yet when one places the SAME info about NWA such as it's reputation for profits as a well run company...it's biased. Gotcha ya!--User:Blueflyer 17:37, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) **Instead of throwing around these sorts of accusations and virtually pouting and stomping your feet, why don't you say what exactly you think should also be included in the article? What, exactly, is not being highlighted that should be, and can you provide a source for the information? User:Katefan0 18:41, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) Watch it! \"Instead of throwing around these sorts of accusations and virtually pouting and stomping your feet\". You wanna get personal" You wanna get personal you might get your feelings hurt. Who made you busy body queen to deciede what is biased and what is not. The article is fine now...as it is. It was NOT...the way it was. The information that I placed in the article was directly from the article that referenced the "old" planes. As well as NWA.com(history), Japan Airlines.com (history), NWA '04/ 10k. The article should be balanced in the SAME manner as all other airline articles...NONE of which rant about isolated employee behavior or how OLD a portion of it's fleet is.--User:Blueflyer 21:13, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) **You know, I was encouraging you, Blueflyer, to make an argument for what you felt needed to be changed/added. I was prepared to advocate making those changes if I agreed with them. What was your response? More ad hominem (and this time, disgustingly sexist) attacks. Wikipedia articles are made by Wikipedia:Consensus. That gives me just as much right to weigh in as anyone else, including -- surprise -- you. And by the way, it takes more than this to hurt my feelings or make me angry. Not so, apparently, for you. User:Katefan0 21:43, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) "More ad hominem (and this time, disgustingly sexist) attacks" From a female named Blueflyer..back at ya sister. Keep your little "pouting and stomping your feet" comments out of a decent reply and perhaps you can be taken seriously. I don't care if it is NWA or SW or Continental, who cares about the behavior of a few employees? Should we make this a standard for ALL airlines? I fly many many airlines in this country and NWA by FAR is one of the best. If people don't like my view (backed up by the FACTS of the company's 10k) too bad. The SEC seems to approve of it.--User:Blueflyer 21:58, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) **I'll simply point out that sexism isn't the exclusive domain of men (witness Ann Coulter). Other than that I don't have much else to say, except that I still don't understand what you think is inadequate in the article. User:Katefan0 22:01, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) *Blueflyer, please cite your source for the 43 quarters of profit statement. You've repeatedly added it and it is not in the 10K. In case I missed it, please cite a page number. On another note, people really need to calm down. This is getting personal. User:Rhobite 22:14, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) **Considering whom you referenced "Ann Coulter" explains your comment of ""pouting and stomping your feet". That mentality goes hand in hand. I'd use her book to line my trash can. I will post the reference for NWA history of profitability.--User:Blueflyer 22:21, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) ***Just to be clear: my above statement was intended to be critical of Ann Coulter, who says some horrible things about women. Anyway, I never intended this to get quite to this point so if anything I said personally offended anybody, I extend my apology. I meant the stomping feet comment to describe petulance, but in retrospect that phraseology was maybe a bit too colorful. I stand behind the basic sentiment though. User:Katefan0 22:28, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) *Ditto.--User:Blueflyer 22:46, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC) ==Fourth largest== It seems to me like the history Blueflyer is adding is valid for inclusion. It just needs to be paraphrased so it's not a cut and paste job. User:Katefan0 23:26, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC) *Done. Also, I think since we are equally split between people who think the drunk flying info should be included and people who do not, maybe it should be removed until a consensus is formed. User:Katefan0 17:05, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC) ** No, it should stay. It's a tiny 3-sentence paragraph which is verifiable and neutral. Please keep it. User:Rhobite 19:10, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC) ***I appreciate your opinion (especially since I agree with it), but we have two others on this talk page who've disagreed. What else would you propose? User:Katefan0 19:32, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC) ****As an outsider, I'd say remove the drunk flying stuff from ''this article''. I see nothing wrong with it in an article on airline safety, but unless anyone has evidence that it was any more likely to happen to this airline than any other, I don't see it has a place here. Just because it's true doesn't mean it should be on this page; it's true that I flew on Northwestern in the 90's and I can prove it, but that fact shouldn't go on this page either. User:AdamW 19:39, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC) *****I guess that's an option. If it's not in here, it should be discussed somewhere. Between British Airways, America West, and Northwest there is enough of a history of news coverage to merit an article about drunk flying incidents. Or it could be worked into air safety but it seems relatively minor when compared to the disasters in that article. We should also have an article about Lyle Prouse, the pilot in the 1990 Northwest incident. Prouse is notable because he quit drinking and returned to flying for Northwest after he got out of jail. Also, President Clinton pardoned him before leaving office. User:Rhobite 20:06, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC) ******I think that's an excellent option, if someone's willing to take it on. I'm not sure it really rises to the level of having its own article (it's not exactly epidemic), so I would support it as an addition to air safety. User:Katefan0 16:27, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC) *******I moved it to air safety. User:Kmccoy User_talk:Kmccoy 06:16, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC) *Exploding whales are also not epidemic, but that's not a criteria for being encyclopedic. Unfortunately I have no time to write a drunk-flying article but I do support its existence. User:Rhobite 20:25, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC) **I think scope is certainly a factor in whether something is encyclopedic enough to warrant its own article. User:Katefan0 04:40, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC) ==Hong Kong Airport== Re: User:Huaiwei: Format of Chinese airports shld be standardised Hong Kong maintains its own economic policies, and reserves its capacity to come up with civil aviation agreements with other countries at its own. It is an independent member at aviation organisations. Hong Kong is independent member at civil aviation organisations and airport council, and maintains its own economic policies. It comes up with bilateral aviation agreements at its own. Hong Kong-mainland China and Macau-mainland China flights are considered non-domestic (i.e. international) and reaches international but not domestic airports, such as Pudong but not Hongqiao at Shanghai. Hong Kong, Macau and mainland China should each have separate listings. :As I have mentioned in the Cathay talk page, the destination listing is a listing of countries, not of aviation councils. "The solution, then, is to add the drunk flying information to the other articles. Not to remove it from here. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you, once you register for an account. · Katefan0(scribble" Whey is that a solution? When someone singles out entity (airline) to focus on someting NEGATIVE. I also notice that NO OTHER airline has mentioned the AGE of aircraft or "Aviation Incidents". Sure SOUNDS like a HUGE BIAS to me. I think this whole thing should be sent to the board, esp. how it has been handled, seems like pretty poor taste. This gives Wiki a bad name PERIOD! ==Request for comment== I saw a Wikipedia:Requests for comment in relation to an incident here. What's up with that? Also, why is the factual and neutrality of the article being disputed? --User:Spinboy 19:26, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC) :There was a user editing this article who was adding misinformation and removing negative information about NWA. For instance saying that Northwest has been profitable for 43 straight quarters (or years), claiming that the average fleet age is 8.5 years excluding the DC-9's (it's actually 9.9), praising Northwest for "wise" decisions, etc. See the entries above on this talk page. I think we can probably remove the tag if Blueflyer agrees to stop adding information without citing a source. User:Rhobite 20:23, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC) ::If they can't cite it, then yeah, remove the tag. --User:Spinboy 21:24, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::: The drunken incident needs to be put on the article. I remember that even The Arizona Republic made fun of it by placing a comic with two NWA pilots drinking wine as they asked for permission to take off so it was a big thing. I think that if we can combine the positive and negative facts, as long as they are facts, then the article is neutral. But we have to teach rookie editors to try to be neutral. After all, I was like that once too! I mean, I love Delta Airlines, for example, and , that does not mean that I will remove info about their 1985 crash in Dallas! That was a fact, its part of the company's history. -- "User:AntonioMartin" Where do you see that they posted 8.5? Are the issues with drunk pilots at OTHER airlines included in the sections? Rohobert you seem to be hung up on a "I hate NWA" trip. NO OTHER AIRLINE i.e. BA, AWA, UAL has mentioned the episodes of drunken pilots. Sounds personal to me. REMOVE IT!"But we have to teach rookie editors to try to be neutral" Take some of your amaturish advice and place the same info for ALL airlines and perhaps you would grasp the term NEUTRAL. *The solution, then, is to add the drunk flying information to the other articles. Not to remove it from here. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you, once you register for an account. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 04:46, May 22, 2005 (UTC)I see...sounds like "neutral" input. This stuff has NO baring on one company or the other. Unless the "pros" are willing to place it in British Airways, Delta, America West, Air France, and the list goes on. This is trivial garbage. The solution is to remove it from the post. For the record NORTHEST was NOT the FIRST airline to report it. Other than that it is great information that is interesting to read. Rhobite, I have read many other articles on many other airlines on Wiki...THIS ONE by far smacks of an unbiased slant to negative. I think you ought to leave your personal issues out of the profile. I say Robite is a disgruntled passenger or crybaby ex employee. I AGREE with BLUEFLYER! It DOESN'T belong on here!!!!! There NEEDS to be a standard as to what catagories is included for ALL airlines, or industries. Peoples pesonal bias should not be used. Most of us could care less about the BS that Robite has put in here. It is not like Northwest is the ONLY airline that this has happened to. Northwest is not the ONLY airline that flies old airplanes. Wiki is losing it's appeal if this stuff starts to creep in.
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