
The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is a United States-based organization that advocates the abolition of age of consent laws. NAMBLA is often accused of fronting an informal network that promotes the sexual exploitation of children. It denies this charge, and further, claims that not all sex between adults and minors is exploitative and thus deserving of criminalization. NAMBLA is an unincorporated association based in New York and San Francisco, guided by a steering committee. There is an annual gathering in New York, and monthly meetings around the country. [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050217-2208-manboy-daily.html] In the early 1980s, NAMBLA was reported to have had over 300 members, and was supported by celebrities such as Allen Ginsberg and Gore Vidal. Since then, the organization has kept membership data private, but an undercover FBI investigation in 1995 discovered that there were 1,100 people on the rolls. [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050217-2208-manboy-daily.html] Since 1995, public scorn and law enforcement infiltration has taken a toll on the group. Its national headquarters now consists of little more than a private mail box service in San Francisco, and inquiries are rarely responded to. ==Platform and positions== NAMBLA describes itself as a "support group for intergenerational relationships," and uses the slogan "sexual freedom for all." According to the group's web site, its aim is to "support the rights of youth as well as adults to choose the partners with whom they wish to share and enjoy their bodies." [http://216.220.97.17/welcome.htm] One of the group's arguments is that age of consent laws can unnecessarily criminalize sexual relationships between adults and minors (particularly boys). [http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/nambla.html] In 1980 a NAMBLA general meeting passed a resolution, proposed by Tom Reeves, which said: "(1) The North American Man/Boy Love Association calls for the abolition of age-of-consent and all other laws which prevent men and boys from freely enjoying their bodies. (2) We call for the release of all men and boys imprisoned by such laws." [http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/nambla.html] This policy was still in NAMBLA's "official position papers" in 1996. . NAMBLA advocates a comprehensive youth rights platform of which sexual freedom is only a portion. In addition to supporting the repeal of age of consent laws, NAMBLA has also opposed corporal punishment, rape, and kidnapping, and has declared that sexual exploitation is grounds for expulsion from the group. [http://www.qrd.org/qrd/orgs/NAMBLA/nambla.replies.to.ilga.secretariat] Although some sources allege that NAMBLA has used the slogan "sex by eight is too late" or "sex by eight or else it's too late", this motto is properly attributed to the Rene Guyon Society. ==History== NAMBLA emerged from the radical political atmosphere of the 1970s, particularly from the radical wing of the Gay Liberation movement which followed the 1969 Stonewall riots in New York City. Rather than fighing to mainstream itself into the status quo, the gay liberation movement of the 1960s and 1970s focused more on highlighting and championing the differences between gay culture and the status quo (what some gay rights advocates contemptuously labeled "straight culture"). Consequently, it was not unheard of for these groups to take positions which gay rights groups today reject. Opposition to age-of-consent laws demonstrates the radical nature of many of these early gay rights groups. The 1972 Gay Rights Platform [http://www.rslevinson.com/gaylesissues/features/collect/onetime/bl_platform1972.htm], adopted by about 200 radical gay activists at a convention in Chicago held by the National Coalition of Gay Organizations (NCGO), called for the "repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent" at the state level. The NCGO, which was formed at the Chicago convention, primarily consisted of New York's Gay Activist Alliance (GAA); small local chapters of the GAA countrywide; and many small gay activist groups mostly organized on college campuses ([http://foia.fbi.gov/gayalli/gayalli1.pdf PDF]). The New York GAA opposed age of consent laws and had hosted a forum on the topic in 1976. The Canadian Lesbian and Gay Rights Coalition held a similar position. Yet most gay rights groups were more concerned with issues of police harassment and nondiscrimination in employment, health care and other areas, and paid little attention to the pederasty in their ranks. ===The founding of NAMBLA 1977-1978=== In December 1977, police raided a house in the Boston suburb of Revere. Twenty-four men were arrested and indicted on over 100 felony counts, including child pornography and sex with boys aged eight to fifteen. Suffolk County District Attorney Garrett Byrne alleged that the men used drugs and video games to lure the boys into a house, where they photographed them as they engaged in sexual activity. Byrne accused the men of being members of a "sex ring", and said that the arrest was only "the tip of the iceberg." The arrests sparked intense media coverage, and local newspapers published the photographs and personal information of the accused men. Staff members of the gay newspaper ''Fag Rag'' believed the raid was politically motivated. They and others in Boston's gay community saw Byrne's round-up as an anti-gay witchhunt. On December 9, they organized the Boston-Boise Committee, a name intended as a reference to a similar [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0295981679?v=glance situation] that unfolded in Boise, Idaho in the 1950s. The group sponsored rallies, provided funds for the defendants, and tried to educate the public about the case by passing out fliers. It was this committee that led to the formation of NAMBLA. District Attorney Garrett Byrne was defeated in his re-election bid. The new DA said that no man should fear prison for having sex with a teenager unless coercion was involved. All charges were dropped. The few who had already pled or been found guilty received only probation. [http://www.ipce.info/host/radicase/ch_13_notes.htm#9] On December 2, 1978, Tom Reeves of the Boston-Boise Committee convened a meeting called "Man/Boy Love and the Age of Consent." Roughly 150 people attended. At the meeting's conclusion, about thirty people decided to form an organization which they called the North American Man/Boy Love Association, or NAMBLA for short. ===Backlash 1977-1980=== As the gay liberation movement progressed into the late 1970s, detractors became more vocal. One of the figures at the center of this opposition was former beauty queen Anita Bryant. With her "Save Our Children" Crusade, she began in 1977 to exploit the growing anti-gay backlash. "The recruitment of our children," she argued, "is absolutely necessary for the survival and growth of homosexuality." Judianne Densen-Gerber, founder of the New York drug rehabilitation center Odyssey House, also used the issue of child sexuality to oppose gays, claiming that they were responsible for child pornography. Bryant's campaign focusing on the alleged "recruitment" of boys by gay men succeeded in overturning a law that had protected civil rights for gays in Dade County, Florida. As a result, gay groups in the United States sought to distance themselves from such suggestions by making it clear that they did not support NAMBLA or its objectives. By the early 1980s almost every well-known gay organization had made its opposition to NAMBLA clear. ===NAMBLA and gay rights groups 1980-1995=== Almost all modern-day gay rights groups disavow any ties to NAMBLA and its objectives. They ended any formal association with NAMBLA and prevented NAMBLA from taking part in gay and lesbian rights movement events. In 1993, the International Lesbian and Gay Association, of which NAMBLA had been a member for a decade, achieved United Nations consultative status. NAMBLA's association with ILGA drew heavy criticism, and many gay organizations called for the ILGA to dissolve ties with NAMBLA. Republican Senator Jesse Helms proposed a bill to withhold $119 million in U.N. contributions until U. S. President Bill Clinton could certify that "no UN agency grants any official status, accreditation, or recognition to any organization which promotes, condones, or seeks the legalization of pedophilia, that is, the sexual abuse of children". The bill was unanimously approved by Congress and signed into law by Clinton in April 1994. ILGA had passed a resolution in 1985 which stated that "young people have the right to sexual and social self-determination and that age of consent laws often operate to oppress and not to protect." In spite of this apparent agreement with NAMBLA on the age of consent issue just nine years before, ILGA, by a vote of 214-30 expelled NAMBLA and two other groups (MARTIJN and Project Truth) in early 1994 because they were judged to be "groups whose predominant aim is to support or promote pedophilia." Although ILGA removed NAMBLA, the U.N. reversed its decision to grant ILGA special consultative status. Repeated attempts by ILGA to reacquire special status with the U.N. have not been successful, but the group does exercise consultative status with the European Commission. Gregory King of the Human Rights Campaign Fund later said that "NAMBLA is not a gay organization ... They are not part of our community and we thoroughly reject their efforts to insinuate that pedophilia is an issue related to gay and lesbian civil rights." NAMBLA responded by claiming that "man/boy love is by definition homosexual," that "man/boy lovers are part of the gay movement and central to gay history and culture," and that "homosexuals denying that it is 'not gay' to be attracted to adolescent boys are just as ludicrous as heterosexuals saying it's 'not heterosexual' to be attracted to adolescent girls." In 1994 the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) adopted a "Position Statement Regarding NAMBLA" saying GLAAD "deplores the North American Man Boy Love Association's (NAMBLA) goals, which include advocacy for sex between adult men and boys and the removal of legal protections for children. These goals constitute a form of child abuse and are repugnant to GLAAD." Also in 1994 the Board of Directors of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF) adopted a resolution on NAMBLA that said: "NGLTF condemns all abuse of minors, both sexual and any other kind, perpetrated by adults. Accordingly, NGLTF condemns the organizational goals of NAMBLA and any other such organization." ===1990s=== Documents relating to the court case ''Curley v. NAMBLA and others'' provide further information on NAMBLA's structure and activities. In March 2003 Judge George O'Toole of the Massachusetts federal court found that in the 1990s (the period being considered by the court), NAMBLA was controlled by a national Steering Committee, "a group which purposefully directed NAMBLA's outreach activities generally." The court documents also shed light on some of NAMBLA's activities, including that: :"NAMBLA was established as an unincorporated association in 1978 to encourage public acceptance of consensual sexual relationships between men and boys. Its principal place of business is New York, and its primary mechanisms of public outreach include its ''Bulletin'', a quarterly publication sent to dues-paying members... ''Gayme Magazine'', a NAMBLA publication mailed periodically to dues-paying members and sold at some bookstores; a NAMBLA website... TOPICS, a series of booklets providing more focused consideration of issues related to "man-boy love"; a prison newsletter; Ariel's Pages, a NAMBLA project through which literature concerning "man-boy love" was sold; and membership conferences. :"The Steering Committee, through several of its members, also formed "Zymurgy, Inc.," a Delaware corporation, which was operated as a profit-making arm of NAMBLA. Although the defendants describe the ''Bulletin'', ''Gayme Magazine'', Ariel's Pages, and Zymurgy, Inc. as separate and distinct from NAMBLA, it appears from the materials submitted, including minutes of Steering Committee meetings, that the Steering Committee controlled all of these entities, providing monies to initiate and support various projects and freely transferring funds among them." :"In addition to managing NAMBLA's financial matters, the Steering Committee also directed the association's policy, political, legal, and public relations efforts. Steering Committee members held frequent meetings and retreats during which they discussed NAMBLA's public image, formulated the association's outreach efforts, and nominated spokespersons. Members of the Steering Committee in close coordination with each other, created and maintained NAMBLA's website, and wrote, marketed, sold, and otherwise disseminated a variety of publications. Working in Massachusetts, William Andriette served as the editor of the ''Bulletin'' and ''Gayme Magazine''. He did not act alone but rather under the supervision of the Steering Committee in producing these publications and in holding himself out as a NAMBLA spokesman. :"In addition to the financial support and supervision provided by the full Steering Committee, the content of the ''Bulletin'' was guided by the "Bulletin Collective," an editorial board comprised of NAMBLA members from across the country who contributed and edited articles, screened photos and pictures, and participated in coordinating the production and distribution of the publication." Judge O'Toole found that Dennis Bejin, Joe Power, David Thorstad, David Miller (defendant) (also known as David Menasco), Peter Melzer (also known as Peter Herman), Arnold Schoen (also known as Floyd Conaway), Dennis Mintun, Chris Farrell, Tim Bloomquist, Tecumseh Brown, Gary Hann, Peter Reed, Robert Schwartz, Walter Bieder and Leyland Stevenson were or had been members of the NAMBLA Steering Committee or had held other leading positions in the organization. (The full text of these documents can be seen User:Adam Carr/Documents1.) ===Today=== More recently, media reports have suggested that for practical purposes the group no longer exists and that it consists only of a web site maintained by a few enthusiasts. Others have suggested that the group is kept going by the FBI as a means of entrapping suspected pedophiles. NAMBLA maintains a web site that shows addresses in New York and San Francisco and a phone contact in New York, but says nothing about NAMBLA's current activities. ==Criticism and response== Gay groups, Christian groups, anti-sexual abuse organizations, law enforcement agencies and other critics see NAMBLA as a front for the criminal sexual exploitation of children. They say NAMBLA functions as a meeting place for male pedophilia and pederasty and their sympathizers. A number of alleged NAMBLA members have been charged with and convicted of sexual offenses against children. Onell R. Soto, a ''San Diego Union-Tribune'' writer, wrote in February 2005: "Law enforcement officials and mental health professionals say that while NAMBLA's membership numbers are small, the group has a dangerous ripple effect through the Internet by sanctioning the behavior of those who would abuse children." [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050217-2208-manboy-daily.html] Suspicion pertaining to the group's activities led both the U.S. Senate and U.S. Postal Service to conduct investigations of the group, both of which concluded without allegations of legal impropriety. NAMBLA responds to the criticism that it is a "front for criminal and sexual exploitation of children" and that it advocates sex between men and boys by stating unequivocally that "NAMBLA does not engage in any activities that violate the law, nor do we advocate that anyone else should do so" [http://216.220.97.17/welcome.htm]. Since sex between adults and minors is illegal, it is presumably included in NAMBLA's avoidance of advocating activities that violate the law. NAMBLA rejects the widely held view that sex between adults and minors is always harmful, arguing that "the outcomes of personal experiences between adults and younger people primarily depend upon whether their relationships were consensual," [http://216.220.97.17/benefit.htm]. In support of this position NAMBLA cites research such as ''Rind et al. (1998)'', which was published in the Psychological Bulletin in 1998. NAMBLA devoted a web page to a brief overview of the study under the heading "The Good News About Man/Boy Love," and claimed the study showed, "On average, nearly 70% of males in the studies reported that as children or adolescents their sexual experiences with adults had been positive or neutral." [http://web.archive.org/web/19981205120531/www.nambla.org/metaanalysis.htm]. Some researchers dispute the findings of the meta-analysis [http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/rbt_files.htm]. Gay rights groups opposed to NAMBLA contend that their reason for disavowing NAMBLA has always been their sharing of the general public's disdain for pedophilia and child sexual abuse (as expressed in issues statements). These gay rights groups reject NAMBLA's claims of an analogy between the campaign for gay and lesbian equality and the abolition of age-of-consent laws, and view NAMBLA's rhetoric about "the sexual rights of youth" as a cover for its members' real agenda. Radicals like Pat Califia [http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/califa_aftermath_frame.htm] argue that politics played an important role in the gay community's rejection of NAMBLA. Califia says that although the gay rights mainstream never committed itself to NAMBLA or its platform, neither did it actively ostracise NAMBLA until opponents of gay rights used the group to link gay rights with child abuse and "recruitment." As evidence, subscribers to this theory point to statements made by prominent gay activists which contain political assessments of NAMBLA's impact on gay rights. One such statement was made by gay rights lobbyist Steve Endean. Endean, who opposed NAMBLA, said: "What NAMBLA is doing is tearing apart the movement. If you attach it [the man/boy love issue] to gay rights, gay rights will never happen." Gay author and activist Edmund White made a similar statement in his book ''States of Desire'': "That's the politics of self-indulgence. Our movement cannot survive the man-boy issue. It's not a question of who's right, it's a matter of political naivete." Some conservative Christians in the United States have used NAMBLA to attack gays in general. With the outbreak of the Roman Catholic Church sex abuse scandal in 2002, this practice intensified. Critics of such organizations have pointed to statistics from national professional associations, such as the American Psychological Association and the Child Welfare League of America, which indicate that there is no correlation between homosexuality and child abuse. [http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=1629&print=yes] ==Criminal allegations== Although NAMBLA itself has never been prosecuted, there have been a number of prosecutions of alleged NAMBLA members for sexual offences involving children or adolescents. The most recent of these cases involved a number of men arrested by the FBI in Los Angeles and San Diego in February 2005. Seven men were charged with planning to travel to Mexico to have sex with boys, the FBI said. An eighth man was charged with distributing child pornography. According to a media report [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050217-2208-manboy-daily.html], the FBI believes that at least one of the arrested men is a member of NAMBLA's national leadership, a second organized the group's national convention last year and a third said he had been a member since the 1980s. ===''Curley v. NAMBLA''=== In 2000, a Boston couple, Robert and Barbara Curley, sued NAMBLA. According to the Curley's suit, Jaynes and Sicari "stalked Jeffrey Curley... and tortured, murdered and mutilated [his] body on or about October 1, 1997. Upon information and belief immediately prior to said acts Charles Jaynes accessed NAMBLA's website at the Boston Public Library." According to police, Jaynes had eight issues of a NAMBLA publication in his home at the time of his arrest. The lawsuit further alleges that "NAMBLA serves as a conduit for an underground network of pedophiles in the United States who use their NAMBLA association and contacts therein and the Internet to obtain child pornography and promote pedophile activity." [http://www.thecpac.com/Curleys-v-NAMBLA.html] The ''Boston Globe'' editorialized: "NAMBLA claims that it has never advocated violence. Their denial, however, relies on an overly narrow definition. The cognitive and emotional violence done to a child's psyche has consequences more lasting than the tearing of bodily tissue. To a child, an adult's wiles can be more coercive than muscular force." [http://www.abbington.com/hoffman/oped.html] The American Civil Liberties Union stepped in to defend NAMBLA as a free speech matter and won a dismissal based on the fact that NAMBLA is organized as an association, not a corporation. The Curleys continued the suit as a wrongful death action against individual NAMBLA members, some of whom were active in the group's leadership. [http://pacer.mad.uscourts.gov/dc/opinions/otoole/pdf/curley%20mem%20ord%20mot%20to%20dism.pdf] The target of the wrongful death suits were Roy Radow, Joe Power, David Miller, Peter Herman, Max Hunter, Arnold Schoen and David Thorstad, a co-founder of NAMBLA and well-known writer. The Curleys alleged that Charles Jaynes and Salvatore Sicari, who were convicted of the rape and murder of their ten-year-old son Jeffrey, were NAMBLA members. [http://www.thecpac.com/Curleys-v-NAMBLA.html] As of April 2005 the wrongful death cases were still being considered by a Massachusetts federal court, with the American Civil Liberties Union assisting the defendants on the grounds that the suit violated their First Amendment rights to free speech.[http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200402270920.asp]. The American Civil Liberties Union makes it clear, however, that it does not endorse NAMBLA's objectives. "We've never taken a position that sexual-consent laws are beyond the state's power to legislate," John Reinstein, attorney for the Massachusetts branch of the American Civil Liberties Union, said in 1997. "I've never been able to fathom their position." (''Boston Globe'', October 9, 1997). ===Other criminal cases=== In addition to ''Curley v. NAMBLA'', several other cases have been cited as evidence that NAMBLA serves as a meeting place or front for men who commit sexual crimes against children and adolescents. *Paul Shanley, a Catholic priest convicted of abusing children as young as six years old over a period of three decades, allegedly participated in NAMBLA workshops and advocacy, according to contemporaneous accounts of the events obtained by the Boston Globe. [http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/documents/shanley_0279.htm][http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-05-06-shanley_x.htm] *John David Smith, a San Francisco man convicted of sexually assaulting an 11-year-old boy he was babysitting, unwittingly spoke of his crimes to an undercover investigator who had infiltrated NAMBLA. Upon obtaining a warrant, the investigator also found guns and child pornography in Smith's apartment [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1996/09/05/MN43587.DTL][http://caselaw.findlaw.com/data2/virginiastatecases/1546974.wp]. *Johnathan Tampico was convicted of child molestation in 1989 and paroled in 1992 on condition that he not possess child pornography. After moving without informing authorities of his new address, he was found after a broadcast of America's Most Wanted. He was arrested and convicted on child pornography charges. In his sentencing, the court stated that Tampico was a member of NAMBLA, and that he and others frequently traveled to Thailand to have easy access to young boys. The court cited a number of Polaroid pictures provided by Thai officials depicting Tampico with young Thai boys sitting on his lap as evidence of the latter claim. [http://www.soc-um.org/nambla2.html],[http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/2001/0responses/2001-0571.resp.html], [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=5th/0020178cr0.html] *James C. Parker, a New York man who, according to court records, told the police that he was a member of NAMBLA, was arrested in 2000 and convicted in 2001 of committing sodomy with a young boy [http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/slips/16023.htm]. == See also == * Childlove movement * Pederasty * Pedophilia * Child sexual abuse * Rind et al. (1998) * Paedophile Information Exchange ==Sources cited== # [http://www.glad.org/marriage/Joseph_Ureneck_brief.pdf Brief of ''amicus curae'' of Bill Wood and Joseph Ureneck] for Massachusetts Senate Bill 2175 # Gamson, Joshua. 1997. ''Messages of Exclusion: Gender, Movements, and Symbolic Boundaries''. Gender and Society 11(2):178-199. ([http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0891-2432%28199704%2911%3A2%3C178%3AMOEGMA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-S view]) # [http://www.thecpac.com/Curleys-v-NAMBLA.html The Curleys v NAMBLA and others] ==References== * Art Cohen, "The Boston-Boise Affair, 1977-78", ''Gay and Lesbian Review Worldwide'', Vol. 10, No. 2. March-April, 2003. * Benoit Denizet-Lewis, "Boy Crazy: NAMBLA: The Story of a Lost Cause," ''Boston Magazine'' [http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=27 http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=27] May 2001. * John Mitzel, ''The Boston Sex Scandal'', Boston, Glad Day Books, 1981 * David Thorstad, "Man/Boy Love and the American Gay Movement," Journal of Homosexuality 20 (1990): 251-274. == External links == * [http://www.nambla.org/ Home page of NAMBLA] * [http://www.lib.neu.edu/archives/voices/gl_sexual2.htm Gay Community Responds to Revere] * [http://www.qrd.org/qrd/orgs/NAMBLA/ NAMBLA-related Documents on the Queer Resources Directory] * [http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=27&print=yes Boston Magazine: Boy Crazy] A history of NAMBLA, May 2001 * Jeffrey Curley * [http://www.thecpac.com/Curleys-v-NAMBLA.html The Curleys v NAMBLA and others] * [http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/01/08/nambla.suit.crim/ CNN: Parents of murdered child sue child-sex advocates] January 8, 2001 * [http://www.stcynic.com/blog/archives/2003/12/the_aclu_and_th.php BLOG: Dispatches from the Culture Wars: The ACLU and the NAMBLA Case] December 22, 2003 * [http://www.aclu-mass.org/legal/docket_2003-2004.asp ACLU of Massachusetts :LEGAL DOCKET 2003- 2004] Summary of their defense of NAMBLA Pedophilia Interpersonal relationships Sexuality and age United States organizations LGBT organizations
*Talk:North American Man-Boy Love Association/archive1 *Talk:North American Man-Boy Love Association/archive2 == Recent edits == There have been recent edits that have been made to include a number of questionable statements. One is that "[t]here is an annual gathering in New York, and monthly meetings around the country." Really? From whence did the editors pull this information. A reference is in order here, lest the addition be reverted out of the article. Also, a later part of the paragraph was recently amended to read, "...but an undercover FBI investigation in 1995 discovered that there were 1,100 people on the rolls." Again, where was this information obtained? I strongly encourage the continued efforts of those who strive to improve the quality of this article. Adding to the article specific information regarding reports and group activities without any sort of verifiable reference is not the way to do this, however. Additionally, I noticed that our hostile editor has decided to remove a clause from one of the intro paragraphs that mentioned a common criticism of the group (that is a front for the sexual exploitation of minors). The stricken clause was the group's response to this criticism. Whether somebody personally believes that this response is valid or not is irrelevant. It is the way the group responses to the criticism. Full stop. As such, I reincorporated it into the article because if criticism of the group is introduced in the first paragraphs, so should the group's response to that criticism. User:Corax 00:36, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) === Recent edits restored === Sources: Dan Dzwilewski, head of the FBI's San Diego office, quoted in San Diego Union-Tribune, 2-18-05. Also, Fairfax County, Va., detective Tom Polhemus, who went undercover and joined the organization's governing board. The clause I struck WAS NOT the group's response to the criticism. It was their response to OTHER criticisms (of sex with boys in general, not to the group's promotion of it.) When you ignore this distinction, the opening paragraph suggests that they do not deny promoting criminal acts, and only deny the shamefulness OF those acts. They deny BOTH. They advocate changing the law. They do not admit breaking it. Rather than re-strike the clause, I've put "and further" inside it. I'm out of time, I hope someone else can improve it. User:68.229.240.32 10:44, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) :Thank you for sourcing the material. User:Silsor 11:09, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC) ==The Revere case== I would like to know more about the Revere case from which NAMBLA developed. Corax's original version of this article presented the 24 men arrested in Revere as innocent victims of a homophobic prosecutor, and much was made of the fact that 21 of the men were acquitted. The article has been considerably modified since then, but it still conveys the view that the prosecutions were in some way unjust. The first question therefore is, what about the three who were not acquitted? What were they convicted of? What do these convictions tell us about the innocent victims theory? Secondly, [http://www.predator-hunter.com/NAMBLA_BS.htm this article]'s opening section makes it clear that the house in Revere ''was'' being used as a venue for men to have sex with underage boys, so that while the allegations of a "sex ring" may have been exaggerated, they were not completely unfounded. The question then is - what were the men charged with? What defence did they offer? Why were they acquitted? Were they acquitted on grounds of ''fact'' - ie, that they had not been at the house or had not had sex with boys under the age of consent? Or where they acquitted on some technicality or other? Someone who has access to contemporary accounts or records might like to do some research on this. User:Adam Carr 12:20, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) ===More revere=== To the first point: the three convictions tell us NOTHING about the other twenty-one men, regardless of what they were convicted of. But I agree: the information should be included. To the second: The house was indeed used for sex with underage boys. there were two documented cases of 15-year-old hustlers paid for sex. I'm sorry I can't find the article right now to cite this. So I suppose, yes, declaring that 24 arrests are just the "tip of the iceberg" of a "sex ring" was not completely unfounded. Similarly, calling me an "unpredictable driver" with a "documented history of reckless behavior" would not be completely unfounded -- since I have two moving violations on my record. And since I was passenger once in a DUI arrest, what does that say about me? User:68.229.240.32 15:07, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Page move == FYI, changing an article title is done by using the "move this page link." This article was cut-and-pasted into "North American Man/Boy Love Association" (Note slash instead of dash). That's probably the right name but the wrong way to get there as it loses the edit history. I've undone the move and posted a note asking for an administrator to do it properly. -User:Willmcw 07:08, May 13, 2005 (UTC) :Done. User:Dbenbenn | User talk:Dbenbenn 17:19, 22 May 2005 (UTC) ::Thanks very much. -User:Willmcw 20:52, May 22, 2005 (UTC) == I am disgusted == As a gay man I was both disgusted and offended that somebody added this article to the category "LGBT organizations". You need to understand that a LGBT relationship means two adults of either gay, lesbian, bi, or transsexual orientation and has no connection to these disgusting perverts at "nambla". I removed this article from that category. :I think you left out the words "to me". User:Silsor 00:08, May 19, 2005 (UTC) Leaving aside the anon editor's pejorative language, he is perfectly correct. NAMBLA is not a LGBT organisation, it is either (by its own account) a group which lobbies to repeal the age-of-consent laws, or (by its critics' account) a group of pedophiles and/or pederasts. User:Adam Carr 00:31, 19 May 2005 (UTC) :If it were not a LGBT organization, it would be the NAMGLA, NAWBLA, or NAACLA. It does specify "Man" and "Boy" though, which makes it a LGBT organization. User:AlbertCahalan 21:31, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::Is the YMCA an LGBT organization? Is Big Brothers and Sisters an incest organization? User:Eyeon 09:54, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::Worst argument ever. Do you remember what the "MBL" in NAMBLA stand for? Here's a hint: MAN/BOY LOVE. User:Silsor 03:32, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
:::LGBT organization? Irrefutable yes. :::Mainstream LGBT organization? Apparent no. :::Perhaps it deserves a separate :Category:Radical LGBT organizations or "extreme" or whatever would be least POV by consensus. :::--User:67.142.129.10 05:04, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::::So now we're going to create sub-categories within larger categories based solely on one subjective criterion like the radicalness of a group? Let me guess who gets to choose which groups are and are not radical. You? And to what other groups, pray tell, would you grant the esteemed honor of residing in the same category as NAMBLA? My guess is none of the groups you support, which is why you have suggested this ridiculous idea in the first place. Such an exercise reeks of the kind of POV that Wikipedia tries to avoid. ::::I would sooner suggest you come to grips with the indesputable fact that NAMBLA is an LGBT organization, rather than continue with the charade of creating categories that allow you subtly to convey your disapproval of NAMBLA. I don't think I am being too harsh when I say that nobody cares what you think of NAMBLA, and that no reasonable person is going to endorse your attempts to distinguish perceived good gays from bad gays. User:Corax 19:59, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) == RE: The introduction of the history section == Unfortunately, it seems that Adam Carr has picked up the habit of reflexively reverting every addition I make to the article without taking the time to consider whether the material enriches the article. Currently, the history portion of the article is incoherent. It mentions that NAMBLA was founded as an extension of the more radical elements of gay liberation, then it makes a disconnected leap to a discussion on how rejection of age-of-consent laws was a part of some gay rights groups' platforms. Some improvements were obviously in order. I revised the opening section to make the existing fragments of information about radical gay liberation and the 1970s MORE relevant to the article as a whole. The revised version I submitted explains how the gay radicalism which was the more active and vocal strain of the gay rights movemenat the time created an environment in which NAMBLA could emerge. None of it was "self-serving" or false. And if an explanation of how NAMBLA issued forth from the gay rights movement is "irrelevent" to the topic of NAMBLA, then I suppose criminal charges against individual members acting outside of their official capacities with the association are also extremely inappropriate and should be removed from the article as well. If Adam objects to particular parts of my revision, I would suggest that he discuss which parts he finds unacceptable and why. My revisions were made in earnest with the intent of improving the article. I do not appreciate his penchant for disregarding them by attaching snide little criticisms about their quality, both which are clearly absurd and denote nothing but the hostility Adam has had about anybody who doesn't agree with him on this topic. User:Corax 03:18, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Another view is that you removed one source and added some unsourced info. How about providing an explanation for why the one source was inappropriate, and why the other info does not need any source. Thanks, -User:Willmcw 03:40, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC) ::I looked back at the edit, and I did unintentionally remove a source which, ironically enough, I myself had added months ago. I have reinstated it. ::As for your comment about my adding unsourced info, I was not aware that it would be disputed that one of the most pivotal arguments in the incipient years of the gay rights movement was whether gay culture ought to emulate and be absorbed into the status quo alongside straight culture, or whether gay culture ought to remain distinct. (The debate is apparent in an article I read a few days ago [http://gaytoday.badpuppy.com/garchive/viewpoint/011700vi.htm here], coincidentally.) ::The Stonewall Riots were propelled by those who ascribe to the latter point of view. Any doubts about this can be assuaged by simply consulting some of the seminal gay works of modern gay history like Don Teal's "The Gay Militants." Regards, User:Corax 03:58, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::Thanks. Can you please copy in a relevant quote from Teal about the militant support for lowering the age of consent? That'd be a useful contribution. Thanks, -User:Willmcw 04:02, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC) ::::Why would I need to provide a quote from Teal about "militant" support for lowering the AOC when the article already mentions that a number of gay rights organizations around at the time of Stonewall openly opposed AOC laws, not just supported lowering them to whatever age? Among the groups mentioned is GAA, which was founded directly as a result of Stonewall. The connection between the radical gay liberation mentality and the opposition to AOC is obvious. ::::The argument was not just what Peter Tachell writes when he implores gays not to abandon "young queers," but that AOC laws empowered the authorities to harass gays. To the gay community, the Revere incident, the raid on the Canadian gay newspaper "The Body Politic", and the roundup at the Boston public library. all confirmed that the "establishment" was out to persecute them. ::::Of course, it is also important to remember that at the time, the radical right had yet to reframe the issue so that opposition to the existing AOC laws meant that you supported prepubescent children jumping into bed with Uncle Chester. It was understood within these gay organizations that the liberation being fought for was not liberation for molesters or pedophiles, who would still have been subject to rape, incest, and assault laws. User:Corax 04:15, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) *Corax -- I don't agree with your recent edit that removed significant contextual information about the formation of the NCGO. Your recent edit removes properly sourced information I placed earlier in the article that helps to place the NCGO and its formation in proper context. The way it reads now one might assume it was a long-standing national organization of some stature rather than an ad hoc organization formed at the Chicago convention. You also removed important information about who comprised its membership -- it was not primarily GAA and its satellite offices, it was GAA and its satellite offices and numerous small college groups. All of this is important in placing the NCGO in proper context. I am restoring the information. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 16:34, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC) **Your addition: ''Rather than fighing to mainstream itself into the status quo, the gay liberation movement of the 1960s and 1970s focused more on highlighting and championing the differences between gay culture and the status quo (what some gay rights advocates contemptuously labeled "straight culture"). Consequently, it was not unheard of for these groups to take positions which gay rights groups today reject.'' I don't know enough about it myself, but since it seems to be controversial and these two sentences make a number of assertions of fact, can you please provide specific sources? Thanks. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 16:48, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC) ::::I am not really sure which of these assertions you believe to be so controversial that they require sources. That gay rights groups back then held positions that gay rights groups today do not? All one needs to do to verify this statement is to look at the position of the GAA and the other groups, and view the platforms of gay rights groups today. Notice any difference? ::::Is there doubt that the gay rights movement has had in the past and continues to have a debate about what form the gay community ought to take -- one that defies convention or one that embraces it? Is there doubt that the early gay rights groups, especially the ones who would adopt positions against age-of-consent laws, would be classified among the more radical former category? ::::Please tell me which assertions in particular you have difficulty accepting as true, and I will do my best to provide corroborating evidence. User:Corax 04:35, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) *Personally, I have no knowledge of the veracity of any of it (this is not meant to pass judgment -- I'm agnostic; I simply don't know). All assertions of fact on Wikipedia should be either sourced or sourceable, or if they are in doubt should be attributed to a source claiming something to be the case. Since this paragraph was challenged in its entirety, it's fair I think to ask for you to provide sources for its assertions. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 14:12, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC) ::''Rather than fighing to mainstream itself into the status quo, the gay liberation movement of the 1960s and 1970s focused more on highlighting and championing the differences between gay culture and the status quo (what some gay rights advocates contemptuously labeled "straight culture").'' ::The early gay liberation movement consisted mainly of two organizations: GAA (whose president, David Thorstad, was a founding member of NAMBLA) and the highly Marxist GLF. As I mentioned earlier, there can be no question that their goals, their orientation, and their platforms were much different than the gay rights groups of today: ::''There were two major gay liberation groups in 1971, the Gay Liberation Front (GLF), created shortly after Stonewall, and the Gay Activists Alliance (GAA), a more moderate group that broke away just a few months later.'' [http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4053/is_200212/ai_n9149052/pg_5] ::''The “conservative” wing of the gay and lesbian liberation movement today is still largely assimilationist: it seeks little if anything more than acceptance and toleration of its “lifestyle” — a “lifestyle” largely parallel to and not very different from the straight mainstream. Conservative gay and lesbian liberationists still contend that “homosexuals” are “just like” heterosexuals in every way but the biological sex of the choice of with whom they “prefer” to “have sex.” This conservative wing is willing to accept and tolerate its own marginalization and subordination in exchange for a limited, fragile, and ultimately elusive and illusory toleration and acceptance by straight society. ...'' [http://www.etext.org/Politics/AlternativeOrange/2/v2n4_mth.html] ::And, in one of the more lucid and succint descriptions of how the gay rights movement in the US has evolved... ::''The 1971 GLF Manifesto set out a far-sighted, radical agenda for a non-violent revolution in cultural values and attitudes. It questioned marriage, the nuclear family, monogamy and patriarchy. Making common cause with the women’s, black and worker’s movements, gay liberationists never sought equality within the status quo. We wanted fundamental social change....Oh dear. Look what’s happened now. Whereas GLF derided the family as “a patriarchal prison that enslaves women, gays and children”, the biggest gay campaigns of the last two years have been for partnership and parenting rights. The focus on these safe, cuddly issues suggests that queers are increasingly reluctant to rock the boat. Many of us would, it seems, prefer to embrace traditional heterosexual aspirations, rather than question them.'' [http://www.petertatchell.net/history/longway.htm] ::User:Corax 15:44, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) **Ok. Thanks Corax. Instead of stating some of these items as statements of fact (particularly the last portion attributed to Tatchell), it may be necessary to attribute them to the authors of these texts as interpretations of events. Adam, do these sources satisfy you, or what is your opinion on their presentation? Thanks all. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 18:15, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
Words begining with North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association:
North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
North American Man/Boy Love Association
The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is a United States-based organization that advocates the abolition of age of consent laws. NAMBLA is often accused of fronting an informal network that promotes the sexual exploitation of children. It denies this charge, and further, claims that not all sex between adults and minors is exploitative and thus deserving of criminalization. NAMBLA is an unincorporated association based in New York and San Francisco, guided by a steering committee. There is an annual gathering in New York, and monthly meetings around the country. [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050217-2208-manboy-daily.html] In the early 1980s, NAMBLA was reported to have had over 300 members, and was supported by celebrities such as Allen Ginsberg and Gore Vidal. Since then, the organization has kept membership data private, but an undercover FBI investigation in 1995 discovered that there were 1,100 people on the rolls. [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050217-2208-manboy-daily.html] Since 1995, public scorn and law enforcement infiltration has taken a toll on the group. Its national headquarters now consists of little more than a private mail box service in San Francisco, and inquiries are rarely responded to. ==Platform and positions== NAMBLA describes itself as a "support group for intergenerational relationships," and uses the slogan "sexual freedom for all." According to the group's web site, its aim is to "support the rights of youth as well as adults to choose the partners with whom they wish to share and enjoy their bodies." [http://216.220.97.17/welcome.htm] One of the group's arguments is that age of consent laws can unnecessarily criminalize sexual relationships between adults and minors (particularly boys). [http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/nambla.html] In 1980 a NAMBLA general meeting passed a resolution, proposed by Tom Reeves, which said: "(1) The North American Man/Boy Love Association calls for the abolition of age-of-consent and all other laws which prevent men and boys from freely enjoying their bodies. (2) We call for the release of all men and boys imprisoned by such laws." [http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/nambla.html] This policy was still in NAMBLA's "official position papers" in 1996. . NAMBLA advocates a comprehensive youth rights platform of which sexual freedom is only a portion. In addition to supporting the repeal of age of consent laws, NAMBLA has also opposed corporal punishment, rape, and kidnapping, and has declared that sexual exploitation is grounds for expulsion from the group. [http://www.qrd.org/qrd/orgs/NAMBLA/nambla.replies.to.ilga.secretariat] Although some sources allege that NAMBLA has used the slogan "sex by eight is too late" or "sex by eight or else it's too late", this motto is properly attributed to the Rene Guyon Society. ==History== NAMBLA emerged from the radical political atmosphere of the 1970s, particularly from the radical wing of the Gay Liberation movement which followed the 1969 Stonewall riots in New York City. Rather than fighing to mainstream itself into the status quo, the gay liberation movement of the 1960s and 1970s focused more on highlighting and championing the differences between gay culture and the status quo (what some gay rights advocates contemptuously labeled "straight culture"). Consequently, it was not unheard of for these groups to take positions which gay rights groups today reject. Opposition to age-of-consent laws demonstrates the radical nature of many of these early gay rights groups. The 1972 Gay Rights Platform [http://www.rslevinson.com/gaylesissues/features/collect/onetime/bl_platform1972.htm], adopted by about 200 radical gay activists at a convention in Chicago held by the National Coalition of Gay Organizations (NCGO), called for the "repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent" at the state level. The NCGO, which was formed at the Chicago convention, primarily consisted of New York's Gay Activist Alliance (GAA); small local chapters of the GAA countrywide; and many small gay activist groups mostly organized on college campuses ([http://foia.fbi.gov/gayalli/gayalli1.pdf PDF]). The New York GAA opposed age of consent laws and had hosted a forum on the topic in 1976. The Canadian Lesbian and Gay Rights Coalition held a similar position. Yet most gay rights groups were more concerned with issues of police harassment and nondiscrimination in employment, health care and other areas, and paid little attention to the pederasty in their ranks. ===The founding of NAMBLA 1977-1978=== In December 1977, police raided a house in the Boston suburb of Revere. Twenty-four men were arrested and indicted on over 100 felony counts, including child pornography and sex with boys aged eight to fifteen. Suffolk County District Attorney Garrett Byrne alleged that the men used drugs and video games to lure the boys into a house, where they photographed them as they engaged in sexual activity. Byrne accused the men of being members of a "sex ring", and said that the arrest was only "the tip of the iceberg." The arrests sparked intense media coverage, and local newspapers published the photographs and personal information of the accused men. Staff members of the gay newspaper ''Fag Rag'' believed the raid was politically motivated. They and others in Boston's gay community saw Byrne's round-up as an anti-gay witchhunt. On December 9, they organized the Boston-Boise Committee, a name intended as a reference to a similar [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0295981679?v=glance situation] that unfolded in Boise, Idaho in the 1950s. The group sponsored rallies, provided funds for the defendants, and tried to educate the public about the case by passing out fliers. It was this committee that led to the formation of NAMBLA. District Attorney Garrett Byrne was defeated in his re-election bid. The new DA said that no man should fear prison for having sex with a teenager unless coercion was involved. All charges were dropped. The few who had already pled or been found guilty received only probation. [http://www.ipce.info/host/radicase/ch_13_notes.htm#9] On December 2, 1978, Tom Reeves of the Boston-Boise Committee convened a meeting called "Man/Boy Love and the Age of Consent." Roughly 150 people attended. At the meeting's conclusion, about thirty people decided to form an organization which they called the North American Man/Boy Love Association, or NAMBLA for short. ===Backlash 1977-1980=== As the gay liberation movement progressed into the late 1970s, detractors became more vocal. One of the figures at the center of this opposition was former beauty queen Anita Bryant. With her "Save Our Children" Crusade, she began in 1977 to exploit the growing anti-gay backlash. "The recruitment of our children," she argued, "is absolutely necessary for the survival and growth of homosexuality." Judianne Densen-Gerber, founder of the New York drug rehabilitation center Odyssey House, also used the issue of child sexuality to oppose gays, claiming that they were responsible for child pornography. Bryant's campaign focusing on the alleged "recruitment" of boys by gay men succeeded in overturning a law that had protected civil rights for gays in Dade County, Florida. As a result, gay groups in the United States sought to distance themselves from such suggestions by making it clear that they did not support NAMBLA or its objectives. By the early 1980s almost every well-known gay organization had made its opposition to NAMBLA clear. ===NAMBLA and gay rights groups 1980-1995=== Almost all modern-day gay rights groups disavow any ties to NAMBLA and its objectives. They ended any formal association with NAMBLA and prevented NAMBLA from taking part in gay and lesbian rights movement events. In 1993, the International Lesbian and Gay Association, of which NAMBLA had been a member for a decade, achieved United Nations consultative status. NAMBLA's association with ILGA drew heavy criticism, and many gay organizations called for the ILGA to dissolve ties with NAMBLA. Republican Senator Jesse Helms proposed a bill to withhold $119 million in U.N. contributions until U. S. President Bill Clinton could certify that "no UN agency grants any official status, accreditation, or recognition to any organization which promotes, condones, or seeks the legalization of pedophilia, that is, the sexual abuse of children". The bill was unanimously approved by Congress and signed into law by Clinton in April 1994. ILGA had passed a resolution in 1985 which stated that "young people have the right to sexual and social self-determination and that age of consent laws often operate to oppress and not to protect." In spite of this apparent agreement with NAMBLA on the age of consent issue just nine years before, ILGA, by a vote of 214-30 expelled NAMBLA and two other groups (MARTIJN and Project Truth) in early 1994 because they were judged to be "groups whose predominant aim is to support or promote pedophilia." Although ILGA removed NAMBLA, the U.N. reversed its decision to grant ILGA special consultative status. Repeated attempts by ILGA to reacquire special status with the U.N. have not been successful, but the group does exercise consultative status with the European Commission. Gregory King of the Human Rights Campaign Fund later said that "NAMBLA is not a gay organization ... They are not part of our community and we thoroughly reject their efforts to insinuate that pedophilia is an issue related to gay and lesbian civil rights." NAMBLA responded by claiming that "man/boy love is by definition homosexual," that "man/boy lovers are part of the gay movement and central to gay history and culture," and that "homosexuals denying that it is 'not gay' to be attracted to adolescent boys are just as ludicrous as heterosexuals saying it's 'not heterosexual' to be attracted to adolescent girls." In 1994 the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) adopted a "Position Statement Regarding NAMBLA" saying GLAAD "deplores the North American Man Boy Love Association's (NAMBLA) goals, which include advocacy for sex between adult men and boys and the removal of legal protections for children. These goals constitute a form of child abuse and are repugnant to GLAAD." Also in 1994 the Board of Directors of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF) adopted a resolution on NAMBLA that said: "NGLTF condemns all abuse of minors, both sexual and any other kind, perpetrated by adults. Accordingly, NGLTF condemns the organizational goals of NAMBLA and any other such organization." ===1990s=== Documents relating to the court case ''Curley v. NAMBLA and others'' provide further information on NAMBLA's structure and activities. In March 2003 Judge George O'Toole of the Massachusetts federal court found that in the 1990s (the period being considered by the court), NAMBLA was controlled by a national Steering Committee, "a group which purposefully directed NAMBLA's outreach activities generally." The court documents also shed light on some of NAMBLA's activities, including that: :"NAMBLA was established as an unincorporated association in 1978 to encourage public acceptance of consensual sexual relationships between men and boys. Its principal place of business is New York, and its primary mechanisms of public outreach include its ''Bulletin'', a quarterly publication sent to dues-paying members... ''Gayme Magazine'', a NAMBLA publication mailed periodically to dues-paying members and sold at some bookstores; a NAMBLA website... TOPICS, a series of booklets providing more focused consideration of issues related to "man-boy love"; a prison newsletter; Ariel's Pages, a NAMBLA project through which literature concerning "man-boy love" was sold; and membership conferences. :"The Steering Committee, through several of its members, also formed "Zymurgy, Inc.," a Delaware corporation, which was operated as a profit-making arm of NAMBLA. Although the defendants describe the ''Bulletin'', ''Gayme Magazine'', Ariel's Pages, and Zymurgy, Inc. as separate and distinct from NAMBLA, it appears from the materials submitted, including minutes of Steering Committee meetings, that the Steering Committee controlled all of these entities, providing monies to initiate and support various projects and freely transferring funds among them." :"In addition to managing NAMBLA's financial matters, the Steering Committee also directed the association's policy, political, legal, and public relations efforts. Steering Committee members held frequent meetings and retreats during which they discussed NAMBLA's public image, formulated the association's outreach efforts, and nominated spokespersons. Members of the Steering Committee in close coordination with each other, created and maintained NAMBLA's website, and wrote, marketed, sold, and otherwise disseminated a variety of publications. Working in Massachusetts, William Andriette served as the editor of the ''Bulletin'' and ''Gayme Magazine''. He did not act alone but rather under the supervision of the Steering Committee in producing these publications and in holding himself out as a NAMBLA spokesman. :"In addition to the financial support and supervision provided by the full Steering Committee, the content of the ''Bulletin'' was guided by the "Bulletin Collective," an editorial board comprised of NAMBLA members from across the country who contributed and edited articles, screened photos and pictures, and participated in coordinating the production and distribution of the publication." Judge O'Toole found that Dennis Bejin, Joe Power, David Thorstad, David Miller (defendant) (also known as David Menasco), Peter Melzer (also known as Peter Herman), Arnold Schoen (also known as Floyd Conaway), Dennis Mintun, Chris Farrell, Tim Bloomquist, Tecumseh Brown, Gary Hann, Peter Reed, Robert Schwartz, Walter Bieder and Leyland Stevenson were or had been members of the NAMBLA Steering Committee or had held other leading positions in the organization. (The full text of these documents can be seen User:Adam Carr/Documents1.) ===Today=== More recently, media reports have suggested that for practical purposes the group no longer exists and that it consists only of a web site maintained by a few enthusiasts. Others have suggested that the group is kept going by the FBI as a means of entrapping suspected pedophiles. NAMBLA maintains a web site that shows addresses in New York and San Francisco and a phone contact in New York, but says nothing about NAMBLA's current activities. ==Criticism and response== Gay groups, Christian groups, anti-sexual abuse organizations, law enforcement agencies and other critics see NAMBLA as a front for the criminal sexual exploitation of children. They say NAMBLA functions as a meeting place for male pedophilia and pederasty and their sympathizers. A number of alleged NAMBLA members have been charged with and convicted of sexual offenses against children. Onell R. Soto, a ''San Diego Union-Tribune'' writer, wrote in February 2005: "Law enforcement officials and mental health professionals say that while NAMBLA's membership numbers are small, the group has a dangerous ripple effect through the Internet by sanctioning the behavior of those who would abuse children." [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050217-2208-manboy-daily.html] Suspicion pertaining to the group's activities led both the U.S. Senate and U.S. Postal Service to conduct investigations of the group, both of which concluded without allegations of legal impropriety. NAMBLA responds to the criticism that it is a "front for criminal and sexual exploitation of children" and that it advocates sex between men and boys by stating unequivocally that "NAMBLA does not engage in any activities that violate the law, nor do we advocate that anyone else should do so" [http://216.220.97.17/welcome.htm]. Since sex between adults and minors is illegal, it is presumably included in NAMBLA's avoidance of advocating activities that violate the law. NAMBLA rejects the widely held view that sex between adults and minors is always harmful, arguing that "the outcomes of personal experiences between adults and younger people primarily depend upon whether their relationships were consensual," [http://216.220.97.17/benefit.htm]. In support of this position NAMBLA cites research such as ''Rind et al. (1998)'', which was published in the Psychological Bulletin in 1998. NAMBLA devoted a web page to a brief overview of the study under the heading "The Good News About Man/Boy Love," and claimed the study showed, "On average, nearly 70% of males in the studies reported that as children or adolescents their sexual experiences with adults had been positive or neutral." [http://web.archive.org/web/19981205120531/www.nambla.org/metaanalysis.htm]. Some researchers dispute the findings of the meta-analysis [http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/rbt_files.htm]. Gay rights groups opposed to NAMBLA contend that their reason for disavowing NAMBLA has always been their sharing of the general public's disdain for pedophilia and child sexual abuse (as expressed in issues statements). These gay rights groups reject NAMBLA's claims of an analogy between the campaign for gay and lesbian equality and the abolition of age-of-consent laws, and view NAMBLA's rhetoric about "the sexual rights of youth" as a cover for its members' real agenda. Radicals like Pat Califia [http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/califa_aftermath_frame.htm] argue that politics played an important role in the gay community's rejection of NAMBLA. Califia says that although the gay rights mainstream never committed itself to NAMBLA or its platform, neither did it actively ostracise NAMBLA until opponents of gay rights used the group to link gay rights with child abuse and "recruitment." As evidence, subscribers to this theory point to statements made by prominent gay activists which contain political assessments of NAMBLA's impact on gay rights. One such statement was made by gay rights lobbyist Steve Endean. Endean, who opposed NAMBLA, said: "What NAMBLA is doing is tearing apart the movement. If you attach it [the man/boy love issue] to gay rights, gay rights will never happen." Gay author and activist Edmund White made a similar statement in his book ''States of Desire'': "That's the politics of self-indulgence. Our movement cannot survive the man-boy issue. It's not a question of who's right, it's a matter of political naivete." Some conservative Christians in the United States have used NAMBLA to attack gays in general. With the outbreak of the Roman Catholic Church sex abuse scandal in 2002, this practice intensified. Critics of such organizations have pointed to statistics from national professional associations, such as the American Psychological Association and the Child Welfare League of America, which indicate that there is no correlation between homosexuality and child abuse. [http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=1629&print=yes] ==Criminal allegations== Although NAMBLA itself has never been prosecuted, there have been a number of prosecutions of alleged NAMBLA members for sexual offences involving children or adolescents. The most recent of these cases involved a number of men arrested by the FBI in Los Angeles and San Diego in February 2005. Seven men were charged with planning to travel to Mexico to have sex with boys, the FBI said. An eighth man was charged with distributing child pornography. According to a media report [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050217-2208-manboy-daily.html], the FBI believes that at least one of the arrested men is a member of NAMBLA's national leadership, a second organized the group's national convention last year and a third said he had been a member since the 1980s. ===''Curley v. NAMBLA''=== In 2000, a Boston couple, Robert and Barbara Curley, sued NAMBLA. According to the Curley's suit, Jaynes and Sicari "stalked Jeffrey Curley... and tortured, murdered and mutilated [his] body on or about October 1, 1997. Upon information and belief immediately prior to said acts Charles Jaynes accessed NAMBLA's website at the Boston Public Library." According to police, Jaynes had eight issues of a NAMBLA publication in his home at the time of his arrest. The lawsuit further alleges that "NAMBLA serves as a conduit for an underground network of pedophiles in the United States who use their NAMBLA association and contacts therein and the Internet to obtain child pornography and promote pedophile activity." [http://www.thecpac.com/Curleys-v-NAMBLA.html] The ''Boston Globe'' editorialized: "NAMBLA claims that it has never advocated violence. Their denial, however, relies on an overly narrow definition. The cognitive and emotional violence done to a child's psyche has consequences more lasting than the tearing of bodily tissue. To a child, an adult's wiles can be more coercive than muscular force." [http://www.abbington.com/hoffman/oped.html] The American Civil Liberties Union stepped in to defend NAMBLA as a free speech matter and won a dismissal based on the fact that NAMBLA is organized as an association, not a corporation. The Curleys continued the suit as a wrongful death action against individual NAMBLA members, some of whom were active in the group's leadership. [http://pacer.mad.uscourts.gov/dc/opinions/otoole/pdf/curley%20mem%20ord%20mot%20to%20dism.pdf] The target of the wrongful death suits were Roy Radow, Joe Power, David Miller, Peter Herman, Max Hunter, Arnold Schoen and David Thorstad, a co-founder of NAMBLA and well-known writer. The Curleys alleged that Charles Jaynes and Salvatore Sicari, who were convicted of the rape and murder of their ten-year-old son Jeffrey, were NAMBLA members. [http://www.thecpac.com/Curleys-v-NAMBLA.html] As of April 2005 the wrongful death cases were still being considered by a Massachusetts federal court, with the American Civil Liberties Union assisting the defendants on the grounds that the suit violated their First Amendment rights to free speech.[http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200402270920.asp]. The American Civil Liberties Union makes it clear, however, that it does not endorse NAMBLA's objectives. "We've never taken a position that sexual-consent laws are beyond the state's power to legislate," John Reinstein, attorney for the Massachusetts branch of the American Civil Liberties Union, said in 1997. "I've never been able to fathom their position." (''Boston Globe'', October 9, 1997). ===Other criminal cases=== In addition to ''Curley v. NAMBLA'', several other cases have been cited as evidence that NAMBLA serves as a meeting place or front for men who commit sexual crimes against children and adolescents. *Paul Shanley, a Catholic priest convicted of abusing children as young as six years old over a period of three decades, allegedly participated in NAMBLA workshops and advocacy, according to contemporaneous accounts of the events obtained by the Boston Globe. [http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/documents/shanley_0279.htm][http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-05-06-shanley_x.htm] *John David Smith, a San Francisco man convicted of sexually assaulting an 11-year-old boy he was babysitting, unwittingly spoke of his crimes to an undercover investigator who had infiltrated NAMBLA. Upon obtaining a warrant, the investigator also found guns and child pornography in Smith's apartment [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1996/09/05/MN43587.DTL][http://caselaw.findlaw.com/data2/virginiastatecases/1546974.wp]. *Johnathan Tampico was convicted of child molestation in 1989 and paroled in 1992 on condition that he not possess child pornography. After moving without informing authorities of his new address, he was found after a broadcast of America's Most Wanted. He was arrested and convicted on child pornography charges. In his sentencing, the court stated that Tampico was a member of NAMBLA, and that he and others frequently traveled to Thailand to have easy access to young boys. The court cited a number of Polaroid pictures provided by Thai officials depicting Tampico with young Thai boys sitting on his lap as evidence of the latter claim. [http://www.soc-um.org/nambla2.html],[http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/2001/0responses/2001-0571.resp.html], [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=5th/0020178cr0.html] *James C. Parker, a New York man who, according to court records, told the police that he was a member of NAMBLA, was arrested in 2000 and convicted in 2001 of committing sodomy with a young boy [http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/slips/16023.htm]. == See also == * Childlove movement * Pederasty * Pedophilia * Child sexual abuse * Rind et al. (1998) * Paedophile Information Exchange ==Sources cited== # [http://www.glad.org/marriage/Joseph_Ureneck_brief.pdf Brief of ''amicus curae'' of Bill Wood and Joseph Ureneck] for Massachusetts Senate Bill 2175 # Gamson, Joshua. 1997. ''Messages of Exclusion: Gender, Movements, and Symbolic Boundaries''. Gender and Society 11(2):178-199. ([http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0891-2432%28199704%2911%3A2%3C178%3AMOEGMA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-S view]) # [http://www.thecpac.com/Curleys-v-NAMBLA.html The Curleys v NAMBLA and others] ==References== * Art Cohen, "The Boston-Boise Affair, 1977-78", ''Gay and Lesbian Review Worldwide'', Vol. 10, No. 2. March-April, 2003. * Benoit Denizet-Lewis, "Boy Crazy: NAMBLA: The Story of a Lost Cause," ''Boston Magazine'' [http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=27 http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=27] May 2001. * John Mitzel, ''The Boston Sex Scandal'', Boston, Glad Day Books, 1981 * David Thorstad, "Man/Boy Love and the American Gay Movement," Journal of Homosexuality 20 (1990): 251-274. == External links == * [http://www.nambla.org/ Home page of NAMBLA] * [http://www.lib.neu.edu/archives/voices/gl_sexual2.htm Gay Community Responds to Revere] * [http://www.qrd.org/qrd/orgs/NAMBLA/ NAMBLA-related Documents on the Queer Resources Directory] * [http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=27&print=yes Boston Magazine: Boy Crazy] A history of NAMBLA, May 2001 * Jeffrey Curley * [http://www.thecpac.com/Curleys-v-NAMBLA.html The Curleys v NAMBLA and others] * [http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/01/08/nambla.suit.crim/ CNN: Parents of murdered child sue child-sex advocates] January 8, 2001 * [http://www.stcynic.com/blog/archives/2003/12/the_aclu_and_th.php BLOG: Dispatches from the Culture Wars: The ACLU and the NAMBLA Case] December 22, 2003 * [http://www.aclu-mass.org/legal/docket_2003-2004.asp ACLU of Massachusetts :LEGAL DOCKET 2003- 2004] Summary of their defense of NAMBLA Pedophilia Interpersonal relationships Sexuality and age United States organizations LGBT organizations
North American Man/Boy Love Association
*Talk:North American Man-Boy Love Association/archive1 *Talk:North American Man-Boy Love Association/archive2 == Recent edits == There have been recent edits that have been made to include a number of questionable statements. One is that "[t]here is an annual gathering in New York, and monthly meetings around the country." Really? From whence did the editors pull this information. A reference is in order here, lest the addition be reverted out of the article. Also, a later part of the paragraph was recently amended to read, "...but an undercover FBI investigation in 1995 discovered that there were 1,100 people on the rolls." Again, where was this information obtained? I strongly encourage the continued efforts of those who strive to improve the quality of this article. Adding to the article specific information regarding reports and group activities without any sort of verifiable reference is not the way to do this, however. Additionally, I noticed that our hostile editor has decided to remove a clause from one of the intro paragraphs that mentioned a common criticism of the group (that is a front for the sexual exploitation of minors). The stricken clause was the group's response to this criticism. Whether somebody personally believes that this response is valid or not is irrelevant. It is the way the group responses to the criticism. Full stop. As such, I reincorporated it into the article because if criticism of the group is introduced in the first paragraphs, so should the group's response to that criticism. User:Corax 00:36, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) === Recent edits restored === Sources: Dan Dzwilewski, head of the FBI's San Diego office, quoted in San Diego Union-Tribune, 2-18-05. Also, Fairfax County, Va., detective Tom Polhemus, who went undercover and joined the organization's governing board. The clause I struck WAS NOT the group's response to the criticism. It was their response to OTHER criticisms (of sex with boys in general, not to the group's promotion of it.) When you ignore this distinction, the opening paragraph suggests that they do not deny promoting criminal acts, and only deny the shamefulness OF those acts. They deny BOTH. They advocate changing the law. They do not admit breaking it. Rather than re-strike the clause, I've put "and further" inside it. I'm out of time, I hope someone else can improve it. User:68.229.240.32 10:44, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) :Thank you for sourcing the material. User:Silsor 11:09, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC) ==The Revere case== I would like to know more about the Revere case from which NAMBLA developed. Corax's original version of this article presented the 24 men arrested in Revere as innocent victims of a homophobic prosecutor, and much was made of the fact that 21 of the men were acquitted. The article has been considerably modified since then, but it still conveys the view that the prosecutions were in some way unjust. The first question therefore is, what about the three who were not acquitted? What were they convicted of? What do these convictions tell us about the innocent victims theory? Secondly, [http://www.predator-hunter.com/NAMBLA_BS.htm this article]'s opening section makes it clear that the house in Revere ''was'' being used as a venue for men to have sex with underage boys, so that while the allegations of a "sex ring" may have been exaggerated, they were not completely unfounded. The question then is - what were the men charged with? What defence did they offer? Why were they acquitted? Were they acquitted on grounds of ''fact'' - ie, that they had not been at the house or had not had sex with boys under the age of consent? Or where they acquitted on some technicality or other? Someone who has access to contemporary accounts or records might like to do some research on this. User:Adam Carr 12:20, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) ===More revere=== To the first point: the three convictions tell us NOTHING about the other twenty-one men, regardless of what they were convicted of. But I agree: the information should be included. To the second: The house was indeed used for sex with underage boys. there were two documented cases of 15-year-old hustlers paid for sex. I'm sorry I can't find the article right now to cite this. So I suppose, yes, declaring that 24 arrests are just the "tip of the iceberg" of a "sex ring" was not completely unfounded. Similarly, calling me an "unpredictable driver" with a "documented history of reckless behavior" would not be completely unfounded -- since I have two moving violations on my record. And since I was passenger once in a DUI arrest, what does that say about me? User:68.229.240.32 15:07, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Page move == FYI, changing an article title is done by using the "move this page link." This article was cut-and-pasted into "North American Man/Boy Love Association" (Note slash instead of dash). That's probably the right name but the wrong way to get there as it loses the edit history. I've undone the move and posted a note asking for an administrator to do it properly. -User:Willmcw 07:08, May 13, 2005 (UTC) :Done. User:Dbenbenn | User talk:Dbenbenn 17:19, 22 May 2005 (UTC) ::Thanks very much. -User:Willmcw 20:52, May 22, 2005 (UTC) == I am disgusted == As a gay man I was both disgusted and offended that somebody added this article to the category "LGBT organizations". You need to understand that a LGBT relationship means two adults of either gay, lesbian, bi, or transsexual orientation and has no connection to these disgusting perverts at "nambla". I removed this article from that category. :I think you left out the words "to me". User:Silsor 00:08, May 19, 2005 (UTC) Leaving aside the anon editor's pejorative language, he is perfectly correct. NAMBLA is not a LGBT organisation, it is either (by its own account) a group which lobbies to repeal the age-of-consent laws, or (by its critics' account) a group of pedophiles and/or pederasts. User:Adam Carr 00:31, 19 May 2005 (UTC) :If it were not a LGBT organization, it would be the NAMGLA, NAWBLA, or NAACLA. It does specify "Man" and "Boy" though, which makes it a LGBT organization. User:AlbertCahalan 21:31, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::Is the YMCA an LGBT organization? Is Big Brothers and Sisters an incest organization? User:Eyeon 09:54, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::Worst argument ever. Do you remember what the "MBL" in NAMBLA stand for? Here's a hint: MAN/BOY LOVE. User:Silsor 03:32, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
:::LGBT organization? Irrefutable yes. :::Mainstream LGBT organization? Apparent no. :::Perhaps it deserves a separate :Category:Radical LGBT organizations or "extreme" or whatever would be least POV by consensus. :::--User:67.142.129.10 05:04, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::::So now we're going to create sub-categories within larger categories based solely on one subjective criterion like the radicalness of a group? Let me guess who gets to choose which groups are and are not radical. You? And to what other groups, pray tell, would you grant the esteemed honor of residing in the same category as NAMBLA? My guess is none of the groups you support, which is why you have suggested this ridiculous idea in the first place. Such an exercise reeks of the kind of POV that Wikipedia tries to avoid. ::::I would sooner suggest you come to grips with the indesputable fact that NAMBLA is an LGBT organization, rather than continue with the charade of creating categories that allow you subtly to convey your disapproval of NAMBLA. I don't think I am being too harsh when I say that nobody cares what you think of NAMBLA, and that no reasonable person is going to endorse your attempts to distinguish perceived good gays from bad gays. User:Corax 19:59, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) == RE: The introduction of the history section == Unfortunately, it seems that Adam Carr has picked up the habit of reflexively reverting every addition I make to the article without taking the time to consider whether the material enriches the article. Currently, the history portion of the article is incoherent. It mentions that NAMBLA was founded as an extension of the more radical elements of gay liberation, then it makes a disconnected leap to a discussion on how rejection of age-of-consent laws was a part of some gay rights groups' platforms. Some improvements were obviously in order. I revised the opening section to make the existing fragments of information about radical gay liberation and the 1970s MORE relevant to the article as a whole. The revised version I submitted explains how the gay radicalism which was the more active and vocal strain of the gay rights movemenat the time created an environment in which NAMBLA could emerge. None of it was "self-serving" or false. And if an explanation of how NAMBLA issued forth from the gay rights movement is "irrelevent" to the topic of NAMBLA, then I suppose criminal charges against individual members acting outside of their official capacities with the association are also extremely inappropriate and should be removed from the article as well. If Adam objects to particular parts of my revision, I would suggest that he discuss which parts he finds unacceptable and why. My revisions were made in earnest with the intent of improving the article. I do not appreciate his penchant for disregarding them by attaching snide little criticisms about their quality, both which are clearly absurd and denote nothing but the hostility Adam has had about anybody who doesn't agree with him on this topic. User:Corax 03:18, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Another view is that you removed one source and added some unsourced info. How about providing an explanation for why the one source was inappropriate, and why the other info does not need any source. Thanks, -User:Willmcw 03:40, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC) ::I looked back at the edit, and I did unintentionally remove a source which, ironically enough, I myself had added months ago. I have reinstated it. ::As for your comment about my adding unsourced info, I was not aware that it would be disputed that one of the most pivotal arguments in the incipient years of the gay rights movement was whether gay culture ought to emulate and be absorbed into the status quo alongside straight culture, or whether gay culture ought to remain distinct. (The debate is apparent in an article I read a few days ago [http://gaytoday.badpuppy.com/garchive/viewpoint/011700vi.htm here], coincidentally.) ::The Stonewall Riots were propelled by those who ascribe to the latter point of view. Any doubts about this can be assuaged by simply consulting some of the seminal gay works of modern gay history like Don Teal's "The Gay Militants." Regards, User:Corax 03:58, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::Thanks. Can you please copy in a relevant quote from Teal about the militant support for lowering the age of consent? That'd be a useful contribution. Thanks, -User:Willmcw 04:02, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC) ::::Why would I need to provide a quote from Teal about "militant" support for lowering the AOC when the article already mentions that a number of gay rights organizations around at the time of Stonewall openly opposed AOC laws, not just supported lowering them to whatever age? Among the groups mentioned is GAA, which was founded directly as a result of Stonewall. The connection between the radical gay liberation mentality and the opposition to AOC is obvious. ::::The argument was not just what Peter Tachell writes when he implores gays not to abandon "young queers," but that AOC laws empowered the authorities to harass gays. To the gay community, the Revere incident, the raid on the Canadian gay newspaper "The Body Politic", and the roundup at the Boston public library. all confirmed that the "establishment" was out to persecute them. ::::Of course, it is also important to remember that at the time, the radical right had yet to reframe the issue so that opposition to the existing AOC laws meant that you supported prepubescent children jumping into bed with Uncle Chester. It was understood within these gay organizations that the liberation being fought for was not liberation for molesters or pedophiles, who would still have been subject to rape, incest, and assault laws. User:Corax 04:15, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) *Corax -- I don't agree with your recent edit that removed significant contextual information about the formation of the NCGO. Your recent edit removes properly sourced information I placed earlier in the article that helps to place the NCGO and its formation in proper context. The way it reads now one might assume it was a long-standing national organization of some stature rather than an ad hoc organization formed at the Chicago convention. You also removed important information about who comprised its membership -- it was not primarily GAA and its satellite offices, it was GAA and its satellite offices and numerous small college groups. All of this is important in placing the NCGO in proper context. I am restoring the information. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 16:34, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC) **Your addition: ''Rather than fighing to mainstream itself into the status quo, the gay liberation movement of the 1960s and 1970s focused more on highlighting and championing the differences between gay culture and the status quo (what some gay rights advocates contemptuously labeled "straight culture"). Consequently, it was not unheard of for these groups to take positions which gay rights groups today reject.'' I don't know enough about it myself, but since it seems to be controversial and these two sentences make a number of assertions of fact, can you please provide specific sources? Thanks. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 16:48, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC) ::::I am not really sure which of these assertions you believe to be so controversial that they require sources. That gay rights groups back then held positions that gay rights groups today do not? All one needs to do to verify this statement is to look at the position of the GAA and the other groups, and view the platforms of gay rights groups today. Notice any difference? ::::Is there doubt that the gay rights movement has had in the past and continues to have a debate about what form the gay community ought to take -- one that defies convention or one that embraces it? Is there doubt that the early gay rights groups, especially the ones who would adopt positions against age-of-consent laws, would be classified among the more radical former category? ::::Please tell me which assertions in particular you have difficulty accepting as true, and I will do my best to provide corroborating evidence. User:Corax 04:35, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) *Personally, I have no knowledge of the veracity of any of it (this is not meant to pass judgment -- I'm agnostic; I simply don't know). All assertions of fact on Wikipedia should be either sourced or sourceable, or if they are in doubt should be attributed to a source claiming something to be the case. Since this paragraph was challenged in its entirety, it's fair I think to ask for you to provide sources for its assertions. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 14:12, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC) ::''Rather than fighing to mainstream itself into the status quo, the gay liberation movement of the 1960s and 1970s focused more on highlighting and championing the differences between gay culture and the status quo (what some gay rights advocates contemptuously labeled "straight culture").'' ::The early gay liberation movement consisted mainly of two organizations: GAA (whose president, David Thorstad, was a founding member of NAMBLA) and the highly Marxist GLF. As I mentioned earlier, there can be no question that their goals, their orientation, and their platforms were much different than the gay rights groups of today: ::''There were two major gay liberation groups in 1971, the Gay Liberation Front (GLF), created shortly after Stonewall, and the Gay Activists Alliance (GAA), a more moderate group that broke away just a few months later.'' [http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4053/is_200212/ai_n9149052/pg_5] ::''The “conservative” wing of the gay and lesbian liberation movement today is still largely assimilationist: it seeks little if anything more than acceptance and toleration of its “lifestyle” — a “lifestyle” largely parallel to and not very different from the straight mainstream. Conservative gay and lesbian liberationists still contend that “homosexuals” are “just like” heterosexuals in every way but the biological sex of the choice of with whom they “prefer” to “have sex.” This conservative wing is willing to accept and tolerate its own marginalization and subordination in exchange for a limited, fragile, and ultimately elusive and illusory toleration and acceptance by straight society. ...'' [http://www.etext.org/Politics/AlternativeOrange/2/v2n4_mth.html] ::And, in one of the more lucid and succint descriptions of how the gay rights movement in the US has evolved... ::''The 1971 GLF Manifesto set out a far-sighted, radical agenda for a non-violent revolution in cultural values and attitudes. It questioned marriage, the nuclear family, monogamy and patriarchy. Making common cause with the women’s, black and worker’s movements, gay liberationists never sought equality within the status quo. We wanted fundamental social change....Oh dear. Look what’s happened now. Whereas GLF derided the family as “a patriarchal prison that enslaves women, gays and children”, the biggest gay campaigns of the last two years have been for partnership and parenting rights. The focus on these safe, cuddly issues suggests that queers are increasingly reluctant to rock the boat. Many of us would, it seems, prefer to embrace traditional heterosexual aspirations, rather than question them.'' [http://www.petertatchell.net/history/longway.htm] ::User:Corax 15:44, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) **Ok. Thanks Corax. Instead of stating some of these items as statements of fact (particularly the last portion attributed to Tatchell), it may be necessary to attribute them to the authors of these texts as interpretations of events. Adam, do these sources satisfy you, or what is your opinion on their presentation? Thanks all. · User:Katefan0User talk:Katefan0 18:15, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
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North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association
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