
The Negev (Hebrew language נֶגֶב, Tiberian Hebrew Néḡeḇ; Arabic language النقب an-Naqab) is the desert region of southern Israel. In Biblical Hebrew ''Negev'' means south. Geographically, the over 13,000km² Negev forms an inverted triangle whose western side is contiguous with the desert of the Sinai peninsula, and whose eastern border is the Wadi Arabah. Its central city is Beersheba (pop. around 200,000), in the north. The southern end is at the Gulf of Eilat and the resort town of Eilat. Other towns include Dimona and Mitzpe Ramon, and a number of Bedouin towns, including Rahat and Tel Sheva. The Negev has a number of interesting cultural and geological features. Among these are three enormous, craterlike erosion cirques or ''machteshim'', which are unique to the region: ''ha-Machtesh ha-Gadol'' ("The Large Crater"), ''ha-Machtesh ha-Katan'' ("The Small Crater") and the Ramon Crater. The last is the biggest of all, in fact - it is probably the largest natural crater on Earth (it was not formed by asteroid impact). == External links == * [http://wikitravel.org/en/article/Negev Wikitravel: Negev] * [http://www.negev.org/About/negev_desert.htm Israel's Negev Desert] ---- Negev is also the name of an IMI light machine gun, designated IMI Negev. Deserts of Asia Geography of Israel
==Discussion== I'm getting a bit tired of these supposedly-linguistic changes people are making to Israel-related articles which are making them much less useful. Where the does the silly accent in the current name of the article - "Négev" - come from??? Since Hebrew does not get written in Latin characters, you can't tell me it comes from the original Hebrew. In that case, the name of the article needs to be the name as commonly written in English (which is the language the English Wikipedia is written in :)) - and that is "negev" - without any accute-accent on the first e. If by adding this accute-accent someone tried to make this Israeli region sound more "exotic", then, well, maybe he succeeded. But it didn't help anything else. It doesn't help understanding how to pronounce it (the two vowels in this word sound exactly the same), it doesn't help to know where to put the stress (English or French people will not even know that the accent could possibly indicate stress!). And it doesn't help when you write an English document about the Negev, and when people expect it to be written like that, without any accent. If you still don't believe me, try googling for Negev and get myriads of results. Then Google for Négev and see a bunch of Wikipedia clones :( User:Nyh 14:55, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) :It is simply a more accurate Latin script transliteration convention for Hebrew languages. You see, in Hebrew it is regular for the accent to be on the last syllable. But then this is not the case, an acute mark can be placed over the accented syllable to show that it — rather than the last syllable — is accented. It is not "exotic", it is linguistic. - User:Gilgamesh 22:17, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) ::Gilgamesh, you don't seem to understand what I wrote above. It wasn't a case against linguism - it's a case for common usage and common sense. When somebody goes down to write the name of this region in English he or she usually writes "Negev", like that. Sure, that doesn't accurately capture the pronunciation. Americans might even be tempted to pronounce it "nee-jev", or who knows how, but these are the people who pronounce "nuclear" as "noo-kew-lar" ;) But it doesn't matter - to explain the proper pronunciation that we can write the pronunciation in parantheses. People still write it as "Negev", and only like that, as you can see in any search-engine you want. The name of the article, and the English name we use refer to the Negev througout the article should be the way it is typically written in English. This has nothing to do with linguistics. Linguisticly, Haifa shouldn't be called "Haifa", Israel should have a trema (or apostrophe) in its name, and "Germany" should perhaps be properly called Deutchland. "enough" should be spelt "eenuf". So what? This is an English encyclopedia, and it should reflect the names used in written English texts. And I want to state again: most readers will not know what the accent is supposed to mean or why you placed it there. Greek-readers or linguists might guess it's a stress thing, but other people might think this is some sort of different vowel that is somehow supposed to sound differently, or some relic of history like is common in French. I can't see how this helps anything or anyone. And, even if you do want to explain where the stressed sylable is - the custom (e.g., in dictionaries) is to do it once, and not throughout the article - and I think that certainly not in the name of the article. You're only causing redirection hell, with everyone probably linking to Negev, not Négev. User:Nyh 07:40, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC) :::It is not a bad thing to include diacritic detail in the transliterations of names in Wikipedia, particularly if this is common and preferred (as in Wikipedia style guides) for names from other languages in article texts. "Redirection hell" is not my concern, as that is an issue of MediaWiki performance, and should be discussed in talk pages for that topic. Encyclopedias are here to teach readers things they did not previously know, and thus it is ''good'' to add detail they have not before encountered. If articles only reflected what people already knew, they would be useless. I appreciate that some people who use simpler transliterations without diacritics in many article texts, but that is merely a shorthand for the full form which is preferred in articles. Ideally, proper transliterations should be used in all cases, with alternative spellings also provided to benefit search engines. The forced removal of diacritics is a POV practice that I oppose, and that I revert. It is the duty of a responsible editor. - User:Gilgamesh 08:04, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC) ::::I have to agree with Nyh. A casual reader will not understand why the accent is placed here. It is simply not an accepted convention of the English language to mark stress, in foreign words or otherwise. An encyclopedia shouldn't invent its own spelling conventions. An accepted method of indicating pronunciation is by using the IPA, and that should go near a word definition. --User:I@k5 09:00, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC) ==Eilat and Negev== See my comments on Talk:Eilat: "Gilgamesh is at it again: Gilgamesh is determined to remove the Hebrew language from its normal rational historical moorings under cover of "scholarly" arguments, as he believes that the Jews do not have "exclusive" rights to their own language! That is perhaps why he persists in creating havoc with Hebrew names whenever he finds them, regardless of the naming conventions that are accepted and used by the whole world such as with "Eilat". See for example my debates with him at: *Talk:Modern Hebrew language#Do Gilgamesh and Mustafa \"own\"_ Hebrew on Wikipedia? *Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism/Archive 5#A serious challenge from User Gilgamesh on Hebrew language *Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hebrew languages#Hebrew languages and Canaanite languages When he will stop his useless and confusing tamperings with Hebrew is anyone's guess." User:IZAK 09:06, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC) :IZAK, you are exhausting. I have every bit as much right to study, practice and share Hebrew as you do — no more, no less. You have a good knowledge of Torah details — find some articles to ''add'' to, as you normally do. I really don't care to respond to your bewildering paranoia and lashon hara. - User:Gilgamesh 10:48, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC) Gilgamesh by resorting to name-calling, you are avoiding the issues, i.e. the way you arbitrarily edit the Hebrew language words on Wikipedia in a manner that is weird to most people familiar with present-day Hebrew usage and presentability. Why don't you follow your own advice and stick to articles about Mormonism. Or would you like me to start editing all the Mormon articles with a fine tooth-comb in hand? User:IZAK 07:22, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC) :I never once told you to edit ''exclusively'' Torah articles. I told you to make productive edits. And for another thing, I did not call you names. I said you are exhausting, because you exhaust me, and make me feel exhausted. See exhaustion. And if you think my edits are unusual, I'm sorry but I don't practice Israeli Hebrew. I know things about it, but I specialize in paleolinguistics, e.g. dead/frozen/liturgical languages. I'm much slower to study vernaculars. I never said that if I truly made an edit mistake, that no one could correct my mistakes. And why on earth are you making this about sectarianism? Why on earth should you by default assume that I make edits with a "Mormon" agenda, or any agenda at all? This is about science and academics, and in that respect we are all equal. And I strive for courtesy and mutual respect, though it has been much more difficult when you throw a tantrum. There's nothing that says you can't add and revise detail of articles that are closer to ''my'' studies. For one moment, think of us as two ''editors'', two ''people'', two ''human beings''. I work every day to get check my objectivity. Your responsibility is no different — get over yourself, because in Wikipedia, religion and ethnicity make neither of us special, nor entitled, nor better nor worse than anyone else. Are you ''so'' insecure? Because I have never doubted your competency as a Rabbinical Torah scholar nor as an Israelite, and you should not belittle my competency as a scientist — it benefits no one, least of all yourself. It also has the effect of making you that much harder for other editors to work with, inviting a frenzy of ever-toxic lashon hara. Therefore, I suggest you ''work'' with people using cooperation and constructive criticism, rather than trying to pick nihilistic fights. - User:Gilgamesh 07:55, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
#redirect Negev
#REDIRECT Talk:Negev
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
Words begining with Negev:
Negev
Negev
Négev
Négev
Negev_Brigade
Negev_Desert
Negev_desert
Negev
The Negev (Hebrew language נֶגֶב, Tiberian Hebrew Néḡeḇ; Arabic language النقب an-Naqab) is the desert region of southern Israel. In Biblical Hebrew ''Negev'' means south. Geographically, the over 13,000km² Negev forms an inverted triangle whose western side is contiguous with the desert of the Sinai peninsula, and whose eastern border is the Wadi Arabah. Its central city is Beersheba (pop. around 200,000), in the north. The southern end is at the Gulf of Eilat and the resort town of Eilat. Other towns include Dimona and Mitzpe Ramon, and a number of Bedouin towns, including Rahat and Tel Sheva. The Negev has a number of interesting cultural and geological features. Among these are three enormous, craterlike erosion cirques or ''machteshim'', which are unique to the region: ''ha-Machtesh ha-Gadol'' ("The Large Crater"), ''ha-Machtesh ha-Katan'' ("The Small Crater") and the Ramon Crater. The last is the biggest of all, in fact - it is probably the largest natural crater on Earth (it was not formed by asteroid impact). == External links == * [http://wikitravel.org/en/article/Negev Wikitravel: Negev] * [http://www.negev.org/About/negev_desert.htm Israel's Negev Desert] ---- Negev is also the name of an IMI light machine gun, designated IMI Negev. Deserts of Asia Geography of Israel
Negev
==Discussion== I'm getting a bit tired of these supposedly-linguistic changes people are making to Israel-related articles which are making them much less useful. Where the does the silly accent in the current name of the article - "Négev" - come from??? Since Hebrew does not get written in Latin characters, you can't tell me it comes from the original Hebrew. In that case, the name of the article needs to be the name as commonly written in English (which is the language the English Wikipedia is written in :)) - and that is "negev" - without any accute-accent on the first e. If by adding this accute-accent someone tried to make this Israeli region sound more "exotic", then, well, maybe he succeeded. But it didn't help anything else. It doesn't help understanding how to pronounce it (the two vowels in this word sound exactly the same), it doesn't help to know where to put the stress (English or French people will not even know that the accent could possibly indicate stress!). And it doesn't help when you write an English document about the Negev, and when people expect it to be written like that, without any accent. If you still don't believe me, try googling for Negev and get myriads of results. Then Google for Négev and see a bunch of Wikipedia clones :( User:Nyh 14:55, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) :It is simply a more accurate Latin script transliteration convention for Hebrew languages. You see, in Hebrew it is regular for the accent to be on the last syllable. But then this is not the case, an acute mark can be placed over the accented syllable to show that it — rather than the last syllable — is accented. It is not "exotic", it is linguistic. - User:Gilgamesh 22:17, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) ::Gilgamesh, you don't seem to understand what I wrote above. It wasn't a case against linguism - it's a case for common usage and common sense. When somebody goes down to write the name of this region in English he or she usually writes "Negev", like that. Sure, that doesn't accurately capture the pronunciation. Americans might even be tempted to pronounce it "nee-jev", or who knows how, but these are the people who pronounce "nuclear" as "noo-kew-lar" ;) But it doesn't matter - to explain the proper pronunciation that we can write the pronunciation in parantheses. People still write it as "Negev", and only like that, as you can see in any search-engine you want. The name of the article, and the English name we use refer to the Negev througout the article should be the way it is typically written in English. This has nothing to do with linguistics. Linguisticly, Haifa shouldn't be called "Haifa", Israel should have a trema (or apostrophe) in its name, and "Germany" should perhaps be properly called Deutchland. "enough" should be spelt "eenuf". So what? This is an English encyclopedia, and it should reflect the names used in written English texts. And I want to state again: most readers will not know what the accent is supposed to mean or why you placed it there. Greek-readers or linguists might guess it's a stress thing, but other people might think this is some sort of different vowel that is somehow supposed to sound differently, or some relic of history like is common in French. I can't see how this helps anything or anyone. And, even if you do want to explain where the stressed sylable is - the custom (e.g., in dictionaries) is to do it once, and not throughout the article - and I think that certainly not in the name of the article. You're only causing redirection hell, with everyone probably linking to Negev, not Négev. User:Nyh 07:40, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC) :::It is not a bad thing to include diacritic detail in the transliterations of names in Wikipedia, particularly if this is common and preferred (as in Wikipedia style guides) for names from other languages in article texts. "Redirection hell" is not my concern, as that is an issue of MediaWiki performance, and should be discussed in talk pages for that topic. Encyclopedias are here to teach readers things they did not previously know, and thus it is ''good'' to add detail they have not before encountered. If articles only reflected what people already knew, they would be useless. I appreciate that some people who use simpler transliterations without diacritics in many article texts, but that is merely a shorthand for the full form which is preferred in articles. Ideally, proper transliterations should be used in all cases, with alternative spellings also provided to benefit search engines. The forced removal of diacritics is a POV practice that I oppose, and that I revert. It is the duty of a responsible editor. - User:Gilgamesh 08:04, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC) ::::I have to agree with Nyh. A casual reader will not understand why the accent is placed here. It is simply not an accepted convention of the English language to mark stress, in foreign words or otherwise. An encyclopedia shouldn't invent its own spelling conventions. An accepted method of indicating pronunciation is by using the IPA, and that should go near a word definition. --User:I@k5 09:00, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC) ==Eilat and Negev== See my comments on Talk:Eilat: "Gilgamesh is at it again: Gilgamesh is determined to remove the Hebrew language from its normal rational historical moorings under cover of "scholarly" arguments, as he believes that the Jews do not have "exclusive" rights to their own language! That is perhaps why he persists in creating havoc with Hebrew names whenever he finds them, regardless of the naming conventions that are accepted and used by the whole world such as with "Eilat". See for example my debates with him at: *Talk:Modern Hebrew language#Do Gilgamesh and Mustafa \"own\"_ Hebrew on Wikipedia? *Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism/Archive 5#A serious challenge from User Gilgamesh on Hebrew language *Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hebrew languages#Hebrew languages and Canaanite languages When he will stop his useless and confusing tamperings with Hebrew is anyone's guess." User:IZAK 09:06, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC) :IZAK, you are exhausting. I have every bit as much right to study, practice and share Hebrew as you do — no more, no less. You have a good knowledge of Torah details — find some articles to ''add'' to, as you normally do. I really don't care to respond to your bewildering paranoia and lashon hara. - User:Gilgamesh 10:48, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC) Gilgamesh by resorting to name-calling, you are avoiding the issues, i.e. the way you arbitrarily edit the Hebrew language words on Wikipedia in a manner that is weird to most people familiar with present-day Hebrew usage and presentability. Why don't you follow your own advice and stick to articles about Mormonism. Or would you like me to start editing all the Mormon articles with a fine tooth-comb in hand? User:IZAK 07:22, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC) :I never once told you to edit ''exclusively'' Torah articles. I told you to make productive edits. And for another thing, I did not call you names. I said you are exhausting, because you exhaust me, and make me feel exhausted. See exhaustion. And if you think my edits are unusual, I'm sorry but I don't practice Israeli Hebrew. I know things about it, but I specialize in paleolinguistics, e.g. dead/frozen/liturgical languages. I'm much slower to study vernaculars. I never said that if I truly made an edit mistake, that no one could correct my mistakes. And why on earth are you making this about sectarianism? Why on earth should you by default assume that I make edits with a "Mormon" agenda, or any agenda at all? This is about science and academics, and in that respect we are all equal. And I strive for courtesy and mutual respect, though it has been much more difficult when you throw a tantrum. There's nothing that says you can't add and revise detail of articles that are closer to ''my'' studies. For one moment, think of us as two ''editors'', two ''people'', two ''human beings''. I work every day to get check my objectivity. Your responsibility is no different — get over yourself, because in Wikipedia, religion and ethnicity make neither of us special, nor entitled, nor better nor worse than anyone else. Are you ''so'' insecure? Because I have never doubted your competency as a Rabbinical Torah scholar nor as an Israelite, and you should not belittle my competency as a scientist — it benefits no one, least of all yourself. It also has the effect of making you that much harder for other editors to work with, inviting a frenzy of ever-toxic lashon hara. Therefore, I suggest you ''work'' with people using cooperation and constructive criticism, rather than trying to pick nihilistic fights. - User:Gilgamesh 07:55, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Négev
#redirect Negev
Négev
#REDIRECT Talk:Negev
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
N
NA | NB | NC | ND | NE | NF | NG | NH | NI | NJ | NK | NL | NM | NO | NP | NR | NS | NT | NU | NW | NX | NY | NZ |Words begining with Negev:
Negev
Negev
Négev
Négev
Negev_Brigade
Negev_Desert
Negev_desert
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