
#REDIRECT Modified Newtonian dynamics
Real Name: Franz Schäfer Member of the Communist Party more about me on the german page: :de:Benutzer:Mond ''Mond'' is the german word for Moon.
"::you are right: the logic is not the same. stalin abused the ideas of communism and killed people. communism does not want people starving. so theses matters are not a ''feature'' of the communist idea. while on the other side: if you do not have money for food or health care then capitalism does not care if you die or not. capitalism happily invests in cosmetic research and not in curing deseases that you only find in the third world..etc..etc... so while on the one hand you have an abuse of the system the fact that people are dieing and nobody cares is an immanent feature of the system... this makes the case worse for capitalism..." Couldn't pass up a chance to comment on this. First, you might want to study the problem of universals. Abstract labels that end with "ism" don't "want" anything, nor can they ever be blamed for wanting or not wanting starvation. Neither communism nor capitalism "wants" because only flesh-and-blood people can be said to want. Second, but similarly, "capitalism" doesn't invest in cosmetic research or anything else. Investors do. Capitalism is, one might better say, the belief that no one is entitled to use force to keep them from investing in such research, or to bail them out of their losses or deprive them of their profits from it. :You are implicitly assuming, of course, that such capitalist actions are the "default" state of things, and that extracting a profit from other people's labor (as those investors do) is perfectly good and fine. Through your first assumption, you utterly ignore the fact that capitalism itself (and especially private property) was instituted through the use of sheer brute force. So why shouldn't the people be allowed to use force to dismantle something that was established through force in the first place? This brings us to the point about which "case is worse." Once we understand what capitalism is, than we see that any contrary "ism" involves the belief that somebody IS entitled to use force for that purpose. :Yes, just like someone IS entitled to use force to prevent injustice in the form of slavery (for example) from happening, we are equally justified to using force to prevent injustice in the form of capitalism from happening. Both capitalism and slavery rely on the same principles of exploitation, which you know very well already. The question as to which "case is worse" is the question of whether that sort of force is justified, or is only theft and thuggery. As for starvation, you might look at the statist structures that have produced that. Those structures aren't capitalism, but are very often infringements upon it. :First of all, let me use the slavery analogy again: Let's assume a law is passed to free the slaves in a certain country. And let's assume the slave owners complain that such a law is only "theft and thuggery", because it deprives them of their property. Would you take their side, o righteous capitalist? Or perhaps you would agree that human life must be put above private property? Keep in mind that slavery is just one form of property, very similar to all others. Of course it was established through the use of force, but ''any'' kind of property is established through the use of force. You make a slave your property by using force to prevent him from using his body in ways that you do not approve of (in other words, you establish exclusive rights over the use of his body). Similarly, you make a piece of land your property by using force to prevent anyone else from using that piece of land in ways that you do not approve of (in other words, you establish exclusive rights over the use of that land). :Second of all, you must have been living under a particularly large rock for the past 300 years if you blame "statist structures" for starvation. Both theory and practice have clearly shown that more capitalism always leads to greater social inequality, coupled with misery, poverty and starvation for the working class. Hell, the entire history of the 19th century (and especially that of the Victorian Age, which is the closest to pure capitalism we ever got) is one of immense opulence for the rich and horrendous suffering for the poor. What happens in your perfect capitalist society if someone doesn't have the money to buy food? He ''starves to death''. There is no way around this fact, unless you want to introduce "statist structures" and socialist principles to give that hungry man some food. -- User:Mihnea Tudoreanu 20:31, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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Monday
Monday
Monday
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Monday,_Tuesday..._Laissez-moi_danser
Mondayitis
Mondayitis
Mondays
Mondays_In_The_Sun
Monday_Begins_on_Saturday
Monday_Club
Monday_demonstrations
Monday_demonstrations
Monday_Morning_Disease
Monday_Night_Football
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Monday_Night_Raw
Monday_Night_Wars
Monday_Nitro
Monday_Report
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Mondovi,_Wisconsin
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Mondovi_(city),_Buffalo_County,_WI
Mondovi_(city),_Buffalo_County,_Wisconsin
Mondovi_(city),_WI
Mondovi_(city),_Wisconsin
Mondovi_(disambiguation)
Mondovi_(town),_Buffalo_County,_WI
Mondovi_(town),_Buffalo_County,_Wisconsin
Mondovi_(town),_WI
Mondovi_(town),_Wisconsin
Mondo_(Power_Rangers)
Mondo_2000
Mondo_Bongo_(album)
Mondo_Cane
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Mondo_Trasho
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Mondrian_programming_language
Mondsee
Mondsee_(town)
Mondul_Kiri
MOND
#REDIRECT Modified Newtonian dynamics
Mond
Real Name: Franz Schäfer Member of the Communist Party more about me on the german page: :de:Benutzer:Mond ''Mond'' is the german word for Moon.
Mond
"::you are right: the logic is not the same. stalin abused the ideas of communism and killed people. communism does not want people starving. so theses matters are not a ''feature'' of the communist idea. while on the other side: if you do not have money for food or health care then capitalism does not care if you die or not. capitalism happily invests in cosmetic research and not in curing deseases that you only find in the third world..etc..etc... so while on the one hand you have an abuse of the system the fact that people are dieing and nobody cares is an immanent feature of the system... this makes the case worse for capitalism..." Couldn't pass up a chance to comment on this. First, you might want to study the problem of universals. Abstract labels that end with "ism" don't "want" anything, nor can they ever be blamed for wanting or not wanting starvation. Neither communism nor capitalism "wants" because only flesh-and-blood people can be said to want. Second, but similarly, "capitalism" doesn't invest in cosmetic research or anything else. Investors do. Capitalism is, one might better say, the belief that no one is entitled to use force to keep them from investing in such research, or to bail them out of their losses or deprive them of their profits from it. :You are implicitly assuming, of course, that such capitalist actions are the "default" state of things, and that extracting a profit from other people's labor (as those investors do) is perfectly good and fine. Through your first assumption, you utterly ignore the fact that capitalism itself (and especially private property) was instituted through the use of sheer brute force. So why shouldn't the people be allowed to use force to dismantle something that was established through force in the first place? This brings us to the point about which "case is worse." Once we understand what capitalism is, than we see that any contrary "ism" involves the belief that somebody IS entitled to use force for that purpose. :Yes, just like someone IS entitled to use force to prevent injustice in the form of slavery (for example) from happening, we are equally justified to using force to prevent injustice in the form of capitalism from happening. Both capitalism and slavery rely on the same principles of exploitation, which you know very well already. The question as to which "case is worse" is the question of whether that sort of force is justified, or is only theft and thuggery. As for starvation, you might look at the statist structures that have produced that. Those structures aren't capitalism, but are very often infringements upon it. :First of all, let me use the slavery analogy again: Let's assume a law is passed to free the slaves in a certain country. And let's assume the slave owners complain that such a law is only "theft and thuggery", because it deprives them of their property. Would you take their side, o righteous capitalist? Or perhaps you would agree that human life must be put above private property? Keep in mind that slavery is just one form of property, very similar to all others. Of course it was established through the use of force, but ''any'' kind of property is established through the use of force. You make a slave your property by using force to prevent him from using his body in ways that you do not approve of (in other words, you establish exclusive rights over the use of his body). Similarly, you make a piece of land your property by using force to prevent anyone else from using that piece of land in ways that you do not approve of (in other words, you establish exclusive rights over the use of that land). :Second of all, you must have been living under a particularly large rock for the past 300 years if you blame "statist structures" for starvation. Both theory and practice have clearly shown that more capitalism always leads to greater social inequality, coupled with misery, poverty and starvation for the working class. Hell, the entire history of the 19th century (and especially that of the Victorian Age, which is the closest to pure capitalism we ever got) is one of immense opulence for the rich and horrendous suffering for the poor. What happens in your perfect capitalist society if someone doesn't have the money to buy food? He ''starves to death''. There is no way around this fact, unless you want to introduce "statist structures" and socialist principles to give that hungry man some food. -- User:Mihnea Tudoreanu 20:31, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
M
MA | MB | MC | MD | ME | MF | MG | MH | MI | MJ | MK | ML | MN | MO | MP | MR | MS | MT | MU | MW | MX | MY | MZ |Words begining with MOND:
MOND
Mond
Mond
Mondagreen
Mondain
Mondalaci
Mondale
Mondamin
Mondamin,_IA
Mondamin,_Iowa
Mondas
Mondasian
Monday
Monday
Monday
Monday
Monday's_Warriors
Monday,_Tuesday..._Laissez-moi_danser
Mondayitis
Mondayitis
Mondays
Mondays_In_The_Sun
Monday_Begins_on_Saturday
Monday_Club
Monday_demonstrations
Monday_demonstrations
Monday_Morning_Disease
Monday_Night_Football
Monday_Night_Football
Monday_Night_RAW
Monday_Night_Raw
Monday_Night_Wars
Monday_Nitro
Monday_Report
Mondcivitan
Mondcivitan_Republic
Mondego
Mondegreen
Mondegreen
Mondegreens
Mondello_Park
Monden
Mondeo
Mondeville
Mondeville,_Calvados
Mondex
Monde_(crown)
Mondhir
Mondhir
Mondial
Mondial_de_l'Automobile
Mondial_de_l'Automobile_2004
Mondini_Dysplasia
Mondino
Mondino_De'_Luzzi
Mondino_de_Liuzzi
Mondlangism
Mondlango
Mondo
Mondo4
Mondol_Kiri
Mondongo
Mondor's_disease
Mondovi
Mondovì
Mondovi,_Buffalo_County,_WI
Mondovi,_Buffalo_County,_Wisconsin
Mondovi,_WI
Mondovi,_Wisconsin
Mondovino
Mondovi_(city),_Buffalo_County,_WI
Mondovi_(city),_Buffalo_County,_Wisconsin
Mondovi_(city),_WI
Mondovi_(city),_Wisconsin
Mondovi_(disambiguation)
Mondovi_(town),_Buffalo_County,_WI
Mondovi_(town),_Buffalo_County,_Wisconsin
Mondovi_(town),_WI
Mondovi_(town),_Wisconsin
Mondo_(Power_Rangers)
Mondo_2000
Mondo_Bongo_(album)
Mondo_Cane
Mondo_Cane
Mondo_cane
Mondo_cane
Mondo_film
Mondo_Generator
Mondo_grass
Mondo_Thingo
Mondo_Trasho
Mondragon
Mondragón
Mondragón
Mondragon,_France
Mondragón,_Spain
Mondragon,_Vaucluse
Mondragón_Cooperative_Corporation
Mondrainville
Mondrian
Mondrian_programming_language
Mondsee
Mondsee_(town)
Mondul_Kiri
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