Lee Kuan Yew - meaning of word |style="background:#efefef;" align="center" colspan="2"| |- ! Order: | 1st Prime Minister of Singapore |- ! Term of Office: | June 3, 1959 –November 26, 1990 |- ! Date of Birth: | September 16, 1923 |- ! Place of Birth | Singapore |- ! Wife | Kwa Geok Choo |- ! Occupation | Lawyer |- ! List of political parties in Singapore: | People's Action Party |- ! Deputy Prime Minister | Toh Chin Chye (1959 - 1965)
Goh Keng Swee (1965 - 1985)
S Rajaratnam (2nd DPM) (1980 - 1985)
Goh Chok Tong (1985 - 1990)
Ong Teng Cheong (2nd DPM) (1985 - 1990) |} Lee Kuan Yew (also spelt Lee Kwan-Yew) (born September 161923) (Chinese language: 李光耀, Pinyin: Lǐ Guāng Yào) was the first Prime_Minister_of_Singapore of the Republic of Singapore from 1959 to 1990. He has remained the most influential politician in Singapore since his retirement as Prime Minister. Under the administration of Singapore's second prime minister, Goh Chok Tong, he served as Senior Minister. He currently holds the newly-created post of Minister Mentor under his son Lee Hsien Loong, who became the nation's third prime minister on August 122004. He is also known informally as Harry Lee to his close friends and family, although this first name is never used in politics. == Early life == The eldest child of Lee Chin Koon and Chua Jim Neo, Lee Kuan Yew was born at 92 Kampong Java Road, a large and airy bungalow in Singapore. As a child Lee was strongly influenced by British culture, due in part to his grandfather, Lee Hoon Leong, who had given his sons an English education. This was evidenced by the fact that his grandfather gave him the name "Harry" in addition to his Chinese name (given by his father) Kuan Yew, as a sign of respect and admiration for the British. Lee was educated at Telok Kurau Primary School, Raffles Institution, and Raffles College. His university education was delayed by World War II and the 1942–1945 Japanese occupation of Singapore. During the occupation, he operated a successful black market business selling a tapioca-based glue called ''Stikfas''#Notes. Having taken Chinese language and Japanese language lessons since 1942, he was able to work as a transcriber of Allied wire reports for the Japanese, as well as being the English-language editor on the Japanese ''Hodobu'' (報道部 — an information or propaganda department) from 1943 to 1944#Notes, though it has long been rumored that he was secretly passing intelligence to the British [http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990823/lee1.html]. After the war, he studied law at Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge in the United Kingdom. He returned to Singapore in 1949 to work as a lawyer in Laycock and Ong, the legal practice of John Laycock, a pioneer of multiracialism who, together with A.P. Rajah and C.C. Tan, had founded Singapore's first multiracial club open to Asians. Lee, together with his wife, Kwa Geok Choo, were married on September 30, 1950. They later went on to have two sons and one daughter. === Rise to leadership === On 21 November, 1954, Lee and a group of fellow English-educated, middle-class men, formed the socialist People's Action Party (PAP) to agitate for self-government for Singapore and an end to British colonial rule. An inaurgal conference was made at Victoria Memorial Hall, which was then packed with over 1,500 supporters and trade unionists. In April 1955, Lee contested and won the election for the Tanjong Pagar constituency, and became an assemblyman. Lee resigned in 1957 as assemblyman in favour of accepting the challenge with David Marshall to contest the by-election. On June 1, 1959, the self-government was formed following Lee's victory over the Labour Front party. Singapore achieved autonomy in all state matters except in defence and foreign affairs on June 3, 1959. == Prime Minister == === Self-government adminstration === After the People's Action Party won the 1959 in the national elections, forty-three of the fifty-one seats in the Legislative Assembly, Lee became the Prime Minister of the state of Singapore on 3 June1959, taking over from chief minister Lim Yew Hock. Lee demanded the release of Lim Chin Siong and Devan Nair before he took office. Lee subsequently opened the Self-governing State's Legistative Assemby on July 1959. In December 1959, Lee replaced Sir William Goode with Yusuf bin Ishak as the Yang di-Pertuan Negara; bin Ishak became the president of Singapore in 1965. Lee faced many problems after gaining self-rule for Singapore from the British, including education, housing, and unemployment. In response to the housing problem, Lee passed the Housing and Development Act of 1960, which replaced the existing Singapore Improvement Trust with the Housing and Development Board (HDB), who (in the same year) built the first HDB flats at Queenstown. Lee also inspected the passing out of the first batch of Work Brigade leaders in June 1960, which was formed by the government to assist problems in unemployment. In 1962, Lee Kuan Yew, accompanied by Hon Sui Sen, chairman of the Economic Development Board, inspected Jurong to be developed under the industralisation programme. === Merger with Malaysia, then separation === Lee began to campaign for a merger with Malaysia to end British colonial rule, following Tunku's suggestion to form a federation which brings Malaya, Singapore, Sabah, Sarawak and Brunei, which he announced on 27 May, 1961 at the Foreign Correspondents Association of Southeast Asia. Lee agreed to the idea after a meeting with Tunku Abdul Rahman on August 8, 1962. He used the results of 1962 Merger Referendum of Singapore held on September 11962, in which 70% of the votes were cast in support of his proposal, to demonstrate that the people supported his plan. During Operation Coldstore, Lee crushed the pro-communist factions who were strongly opposing the merger and who were allegedly involved in subversive activities. On September 161963, Singapore became part of the Federation of Malaysia. However, the union was short-lived. The Politics of Malaysia, ruled by the United Malays National Organisation (UMNO), became worried by the inclusion of Singapore’s Chinese majority and the political challenge of the PAP in Malaysia. Lee openly opposed the bumiputra policy and used the Malaysian Solidarity Convention's famous cry of "Malaysian Malaysia!", a nation serving the Malaysian nationality, as opposed to the Malay race. PAP-UMNO relations were seriously strained. Some in UMNO also wanted Lee to be arrested. [[Image:Leecry.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Lee Kuan Yew broke down emotionally during a televised speech on 9 August1965]] Race riots followed, such as that on Muhammad's birthday (21 July1964), near Kallang Gasworks, in which twenty-three were killed and hundreds injured as Chinese and Malays attacked each other. Today, it is still disputed how it started, and theories include a bottle being thrown into a Muslim rally by a Chinese, while others argued that it was started by a Malay. More riots broke out in September 1964, as the rioters looted cars and shops, forcing both Tunku Abdul Rahman and Lee Kuan Yew to make public appearances in order to soothe the situation. The price of food skyrocketed during this period, due to the disruption in transport, which caused further hardship. Unable to resolve the crisis, the Malaysian Prime Minister Tunku, Abdul Rahman, decided to expel Singapore from Malaysia, choosing to "sever all ties with a State Government that showed no measure of loyalty to its Central Government". Lee was adamant and tried to work out a compromise, but without success. He was later convinced by Goh Keng Swee that the secession was inevitable. Lee Kuan Yew signed a separation agreement on August 71965, which discussed Singapore's post-separation relations with Malaysia in order to continue cooperation in areas such as trade and mutual defence. The failure of the merger was a heavy blow to Lee, who believed that it was crucial for Singapore’s survival. In a televised press conference, he broke down emotionally as he announced the separation to the people:
"For me, it is a moment of anguish. All my life, my whole adult life, I believed in merger and unity of the two territories. ... Now, I, Lee Kuan Yew, Prime Minister of Singapore, DO HEREBY PROCLAIM AND DECLARE on behalf on the people and the Government of Singapore that as from today, the ninth day of August in the year one thousand nine hundred and sixty-five, Singapore shall be forever a sovereign democratic and independent nation, founded upon the principles of liberty and justice and ever seeking the welfare and happiness of the people in a most and just equal society."
On that day, August 91965, the Malaysian Parliament passed the required resolution that would sever Singapore's ties to Malaysia as a state, and thus the Republic of Singapore was created. It had no natural resources, an inadequate water supply, and little indigenous defence capability. Lee now faced the formidable task of building this new nation. == Post-independence administration == In his biography, Lee Kuan Yew stated that he did not sleep well, and fell sick days after Singapore's independence, fearing that subsequent threats might come from Indonesia. As the British prime-minister at the time, Harold Wilson expressed concern upon learning of Lee's condition from the British High Commissioner, John Robb. In response to their concern, Lee replied:
"Do not worry about Singapore. My colleagues and I are sane, rational people even in our moments of anguish. We will weigh all possible consequences before we make any move on the political chessboard..."
In 1965, under the newly formed Internal Security Act, the government (in which Lee was involved) arrested at least 107 left-wing politicians and trade unionists in Operation Coldstore. Under Lee's direction, Singapore joined the United Nations (UN) on 21 September1965, and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) on 8 August1967. Lee made his first official visit to Indonesia in 25 May, 1973, after years of the Konfrontasi under Sukarno's regime. Relations between Singapore and Indonesia substantially improved as subsequent visits were made between Singapore and Indonesia. However, there were some tensions in diplomatic relations in view of the fact that Indonesian-Singaporean business ventures consist of mainly ethnic Indonesian Chinese businessmen, rather than Indigenious Indonesians (pribumi). Until recently, Lee has also maintained a personal policy against gambling, although sweepstakes such as "4D" and "Toto" were allowed. In his speech as Minister Mentor, despite a proposal from Stanley Ho to open a floating casino in Marina Bay, Lee angrily responded: "No, over my dead body!" He was also said to be against the proposal to have Formula One racing in Singapore. As Singapore has never had a dominant culture to which immigrants could assimilate, nor a common language, together with efforts from the government and ruling party, Lee tried to create a common Singaporean identity in the 1970s and 1980s. Lee attended the hearing of the Select Committee on the Legal Profession (Ammendment) Bill as a member in October 1986. Lee and his government stressed the importance of maintaining religious tolerance and racial harmony, and they were ready to use the law to counter any threat that might incite ethnic and religious violence. For example, Lee warned against "insensitive evangelization", by which he referred to instances of Christian proselytising directed at Malays. In 1974, the government advised the Bible Society of Singapore to stop publishing religious materials in Malay. [http://www.exploitz.com/Singapore-Religious-Change-cg.php] === Decisions & policies === Lee had three main concerns – national security, the economy, and social issues – during his post-independence administration. The vulnerability of Singapore was deeply felt with threats from multiple sources including the communists, Indonesia (with its Confrontation stance), and UMNO extremists who wanted to force Singapore back into Malaysia. As Singapore gained admission to the United Nations, Lee quickly sought international recognition of Singapore’s independence. He declared a policy of neutrality and non-alignment, following Switzerland’s model. At the same time, he assigned Goh Keng Swee with the task of building the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) and requested help from other countries for advice, training and facilities. With the announcement of having the intentions to pull out or cut down the troops from Singapore and Malaysia, In 1967, he and Goh introduced the National Service, a conscription program that developed a large reserve force that can be mobilized in a short notice. In January 1968, Lee bought some AMX-13 French-made tanks and a total of 72 refurbished tanks in 1972. Later, Singapore was able to establish strong military relations with other nations of ASEAN, the Five-Powers Defense Agreement (FPDA) and other noncommunist states. This partially restored the security of the country following the withdrawal of British troops in 31 October1971. The separation from Malaysia signifies a permanent loss of a common market and an economic hinterland. The economic woes were further exacerbated by the British withdrawal that would eliminate over 50,000 jobs. Although the British government had back out from their earlier commitment to keep their bases till 1975, Lee decided not to strain the relationship with London. He convinced Harold Wilson to allow the substantial military infrastructure (including a dockyard) to be converted for civilian use, instead of destroying them in accordance with British law. With advices from Dr. Albert Winsemius, Lee set Singapore on the path of industrialization. In 1961, the Singapore Economic Development Board was established to attract foreign investment, offering attractive tax incentives and providing access to the highly skilled, disciplined and relatively low paid work force. At the same time, the government maintained tight control of the economy, regulating the allocation of land, labour and capital resources. Modern infrastructure of airport, port, roads, and communications networks were built. The Singapore Tourist Promotion Board was set up to promote tourism that would created many jobs in the service industry. In building the economy, Lee was assisted by his ablest ministers, especially Goh Keng Swee and Hon Sui Sen. They managed to reduce the unemployment rate from 14 percent in 1965 to 4.5 percent in 1973. Lee designated English as the language of the workplace and the common language among the different races, while recognizing Malay, Chinese, and Tamil as the other three official languages. Most schools use English as the medium of instruction, although there are also lessons for the mother tongues. Lee discouraged the usage of Chinese dialects by promoting Mandarin to be supplanted as the "Mother Tongue" of ethnic Chinese, in view of having a common language of communication within the Chinese community. In 1979, Lee officially launched the first Speak Mandarin Campaign. Lee also cancelled the broadcasting of all television programmes in dialects, with the exception of news and operas, for the beneficiary of the older audience. However, the policy worked at the expense of Chinese dialects; it was observed that most of the younger Chinese Singaporeans are no longer able to speak Chinese dialects fluently, thus they encountered some difficulty in communicating with their dialect-speaking grandparents. In the 1970s, graduates of the Chinese-language Nanyang University were facing huge problem finding jobs because of their lack of command in the English language often required in the workforce, especially the public sector. Lee took the drastic measure to have Nanyang University absorbed by the English-language University of Singapore; the combined institution was renamed the National University of Singapore. This move greatly affected the Chinese-speaking professors who now have to teach in English. It was also opposed by some Chinese groups who had contributed significantly to the building of Nanyang University and therefore have strong emotional attachment to the school. Like many Asian countries, Singapore was not immune to the disease of corruption. Lee was well aware how corruption had led to the downfall of the Nationalist Chinese government in mainland China. Fighting against the communists himself, he knew he had to “Good governance”. Lee introduced legislation that give the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau (CIPB) greater power to conduct arrest, search, calling of witnesses, and investigation of bank accounts and income tax returns of suspected persons and their family. With Lee’s support, CPIB can investigate any officer or minister. Indeed, several ministers were later charged with corruption. Lee believed that ministers should be well paid in order to maintain a clean and honest government. In 1994, he proposed to link the salaries of ministers, judges, and top civil servants to the salaries of top professionals in the private sector, arguing that this would help recruit and retain talents to serve in the public sector. In 1983, Lee sparked the “Great Marriage Debate” when he encouraged Singapore men to choose women with high education as wives. He was concerned that a large number of graduate women were unmarried. Some sections of the population, including graduate women, were upset by his views. Nonetheless, a match-making agency Social Development Unit (SDU) was set up to promote socializing among men and women graduates. Lee also introduced incentives for graduate mothers to have third and fourth children, in a reversal of the over-successful “Stop-at-Two” family planning campaign in the 1960s and 1970s. === Relations with Malaysia === ====Abdul Razak==== Lee's relationship with Abdul Razak proved to be fairly stable, involving little serious dispute from 1972 until Razak's death in January 1976. ====Mahathir bin Mohamad==== Lee's relationship with Mahathir bin Mohamad began in May 1965, when Mahathir was the M.P. for Kota Star Selatan in Kedah. Mahathir said that the PAP was:
"...pro-Chinese, communist-oriented and positively anti-Malay. .... In some police stations, Chinese is the official language, and statements are taken in Chinese. .... In industry, the PAP policy is to encourage Malays to become labourers only, but Malays were not given facilities to invest as well. ... It is, of course, necessary to emphasise that there are two types of Chinese — those who appreciate the need for all communities to be equally well-off and these are the MCA supporters to be found where Chinese have for generations lived and worked amidst the Malays and the other indigenous people, and the insular, selfish and arrogant type, of which Mr Lee is a good example. This latter type live in a purely Chinese environment where Malays only exist at syce level. ... They have never known Malay rule and could not bear the idea that the people that they have so long kept under their heels should now be in a position to rule them."
Lee looked forward to improving relationships with Mahathir upon the latter's promotion to Deputy Prime Minister. Knowing that Mahathir was in line to become the next Prime Minister of Malaysia, Lee invited Mahathir (through then-President of Singapore Devan Nair) to visit Singapore in 1978. This, and subsequent visits, improved both personal and diplomatic relationships between the two. Mahathir told Lee to cut off links with the Chinese leaders of the Democratic Action Party; in exchange, Mahathir undertook not to interfere in the affairs of the Malay Singaporeans. In December 1981, Mahathir changed the time zone of the Malay Peninsula in order to create just one time zone for Malaysia, and Lee followed suit for economic and social reasons. Relations with Mahathir subsequently improved in 1982. In January 1984 Mahathir imposed a RM100 levy on all goods vehicles leaving Malaysia and Singapore. However, when Musa Hitam's tried to discourage Mahathir's policy, the levy was doubled to discourage the use of Singapore's port, and a breakdown in relations with Malaysia was evident. In a meeting at the Commonwealth Heads of Government in October 1987, both Lee and Mahathir worked to resolve the issues of two assult boats carrying four SAF personnel entering Sungei Melayu, a river that was within Malaysia's territoral waters, and ethnic issues concerning the Singapore's SAF. The meeting yielded results satisfactory to both leaders. Both Lee Kuan Yew and the then-Malaysian premier Mahathir reached a major agreement in Kuala Lumpur to build the Linggui dam on the Johor river in June 1988. Lee approached Mahathir in 1989, when he intended to move the railway customs from Tanjong Pagar in Southern Singapore to Woodlands, Singapore at the end of the Causeway, in part because of an increasing number of cases of drug smuggling into Singapore. This caused resentements in Malaysia, as some of the land would revert to Singapore when the railway tracks were no longer used. In response, Mahathir designated Daim Zainuddin, then Minister of Finance of Malaysia, to settle the terms. After months of negotiation, an agreement was reached involving the joint development of three main parcels of land in Tanjong Pagar, Kranji, and Woodlands. Malaysia had a sixty percent share, while Singapore had a forty percent share. The Points of Agreement (POA) was signed on 27 November1990, a day before Lee stepped down as Prime Minister. === Legacy and controversies === During the three decades in which Lee was in office, Singapore grew from a status of being a developing country, a euphemism for a poor economic status, to one of the most developed nations in the world, despite its small population and lack of natural resources. Lee has often stated that Singapore's only natural resources are its people and their strong work ethic. He is widely respected by many Singaporeans, particularly the older generation, who remember his inspiring leadership during independence and the separation from Malaysia. He has often been credited as the architect of Singapore's present prosperity (although a significant role was also played by his Deputy Prime Minister, Dr. Goh Keng Swee, who was in charge of the economy.) On the other hand, some Singaporeans have criticized Lee as elitist and even an autocrat. Lee was once quoted as saying he preferred to be feared than loved. He has implemented some harsh measures to allegedly suppress political opposition, such as outlawing public demonstrations without an explicit police permit, the restriction of the press publication, the use of defamationlawsuits (which, according to his worst critics, have little merit) to bankruptcy political opponents. On one occasion, after a court ruling in favour of Lee was overturned by the Privy Council, the right of appeal to the Council was abolished. He had previously won such cases. During his premiership from 1965 to 1990, he incarcerated Chia Thye Poh, a former MP of an opposition party, the Barisan Socialis, for 22 years under the Internal Security Act for being an alleged member of the Malayan Communist Party, only to be released in 1989#Notes. He abolished the "Trial by Jury" in the courts, hence giving full authority to the judges in their judicial decisions. == Senior Minister == After leading the PAP in seven elections, Lee stepped down on 26 November, 1990, and handed over the prime minister position to Goh Chok Tong through handing over his letter of resignation to Wee Kim Wee at 2.40pm. With his resignation as Prime Minister, the process of succession was completed. This leadership transition was meticulously planned and executed. The recruitment and grooming for the second generation leaders took place as early as 1970s. In the 1980s, Goh and the younger leaders started to assume important cabinet positions. Prior to the official transition, all other first generation leaders (the "old guards") were retired, including Goh Keng Swee, S. Rajaratnam and Toh Chin Chye. Being so thoroughly planned, the transition was quite a non-event in Singapore, even though it was the first leadership transition since independence. By stepping down when he was still mentally alert and in good health, Lee set himself apart from other strong contemporary Asian leaders such as Mao Zedong, Suharto, Ferdinand Marcos, and Ne Win, who had stayed in power for too long and left their countries in disarray. As Goh Chok Tong became the head of government, Lee remained in the cabinet with a non-executive position of Senior Minister and played a role he described as advisory. In public, Lee would refer to Goh as "''my Prime Minister''", in deference to Goh's authority. Nonetheless, Lee's opinions still carry weight with the public and in the cabinet. He still wields enormous influence in the country and is ready to use it when necessary. As he said in a 1988 National Day rally:
"Even from my sick bed, even if you are going to lower me into the grave and I feel something is going wrong, I will get up."
Lee subsequently stepped down as the Secretary-General of the PAP and was succeeded by Goh Chok Tong in November 1992. Lee refrained from official dealings with all ASEAN governments, including Malaysia, so as not to cross lines with his successor, Goh Chok Tong. He played a major role, however, with regard to the economy, such as with the agreement of the transfer of public-adminstration software for the development and management of Suzhou's Industrial Park with then Vice-president Li Lanqing on February 261994. In January 1997, Lee swore in an affidavit that Johor Bahru was "notorious for shootings, muggings and car-jackings", causing a furore in Malaysia when the case made its way into the press via a defendant who had absconded to Johor. Lee made an unreserved apology, and subsequently removed his statements from official records. == Minister Mentor == On 12 August, 2004, Goh Chok Tong stepped down in favour of Lee's son, Lee Hsien Loong. Goh became the Senior Minister and Lee Kuan Yew assumed a new cabinet position of Minister Mentor. As Minister Mentor, Lee always took the opportunity to meet foreign leaders and ministers visiting Singapore, especially those who intended to meet his son. Regarding gambling laws, Lee stated that he was "emotionally and intellectually" against gambling. However, he made no opposition to his son's proposal to allow casinos in the country, stating: "Having a casino is something the new leaders will have to decide". Recently, Lee has expressed his concern about the declining proficiency of Standard Mandarin among younger Singaporeans. In one of his parliamentary speeches, He said: "Singaporeans must learn to juggle English and Mandarin". Subsequently, he launched a television program, ''华语!'', in January 2005, in an attempt to attract young viewers to learn Mandarin. In June 2005, Lee published a book, ''Keeping My Mandarin Alive'', documenting his decades of effort to master Mandarin — a language which he said he had to re-learn due to disuse:
"...because I don't use it so much, therefore it gets disused and there's language loss. Then I have to revive it. It's a terrible problem because learning it in adult life, it hasn't got the same roots in your memory."
In an interview with China Central Television on June 12, 2005, Lee stressed the need to have a continuous renewal of talent in the country's leadership, saying:
"In a different world we need to find a niche for ourselves, little corners where in spite of our small size we can perform a role which will be useful to the world. To do that, you will need people at the top, decision-makers who have got foresight, good minds, who are open to ideas, who can seize opportunities like we did. ... My job really was to find my successors. I found them, they are there; their job is to find their successors. So there must be this continuous renewal of talented, dedicated, honest, able people who will do things not for themselves but for their people and for their country. If they can do that, they will carry on for another one generation and so it goes on. The moment that breaks, it's gone."
Lee also said that relations between China and Taiwan have become more stable ever since Beijing passed its controversial anti-secession law aimed at Taipei. == Family == Several members of Lee's family hold prominent positions in Singaporean society. Lee's wife Kwa Geok Choo used to be a partner of the prominent legal firm Lee & Lee. His younger brothers, Dennis, Freddy and Suan Yew were partners of Lee & Lee. He also has a younger sister, Monica. Lee's father, Lee Chin Koon, died on October 121997, at the age of 94, and his mother died in August 1980 at the age of 77. His brother, Dennis, died of cancer on November 142003. His sons and daughter hold government and government-linked posts. His son Lee Hsien Loong is currently the Prime Minister and Finance Minister of Singapore, as well as Vice-Chairman of the Government Investment Company (GIC) of Singapore (Lee is the Chairman.) His daughter Lee Wei Ling runs the National Neurological Institute, and remains unmarried. Lee's other son, Lee Hsien Yang manages the recently privatised telecommunications company SingTel. His daughter-in-law Ho Ching runs Temasek Holdings, a prominent government owned holding company with controlling stakes in a variety of companies. However, Lee has consistently denied charges of nepotism, arguing that his family members' privileged positions are based on personal merit. In 2004, the Economist magazine apologised to the Lee family for making such accusations of nepotism in its August 14th-20th 2004 edition. In his biography, Lee stated that he was a fourth-generation Chinese Singaporean, contributing to the fact that his Hakka great-grandfather, Lee Bok Boon (born 1846), emigrated from the Dapu county of Guangdong province to the Straits Settlements in the 1862. == Values and beliefs == Lee was one of the leading advocates of Asian values, though his interpretation of Asian values is open to debate. Using his support of Asian values, Confucian, and to a lesser extent, Buddhist virtues were widely promoted by Lee in the 1980s. This was evidenced in his visits to Chinese temples. In an interview with the ''Singapore Straits Times'', Lee said that he is an agnostic. === Memoirs === Lee Kuan Yew has written a two-volume set of memoirs: ''The Singapore Story'' (ISBN 0130208035), which covers his view of History of Singapore until its separation from Malaysia in 1965, and ''From Third World to First: The Singapore Story'' (ISBN 0060197764), which gives his account of Singapore's subsequent transformation into a prosperous first-world nation. == Awards == *Lee has received a number of state decorations, including the Order of the Companions of Honour (1970), Knight Grand Cross of the Order of St Michael and St George (1972), the Freedom of the City of London (1982), the Order of the Crown of Johor (1984), the Order of Great Leader (1988) and the Order of the Rising Sun (1967). *Lee also received other decorations which include the highest honour of [[Honourary Fellowshi[ pf the Edinburgh Royal College of Medicine]] (1988), and Man for Peace (1990) *In 2002, Lee Kuan Yew was formally admitted to the Fellowship of Imperial College London in recognition of his promotion of international trade and industry, and development of science and engineering study initiatives with the UK.[http://www.imperial.ac.uk/P3736.htm] ==External links== *http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990823/lee1.html. Lee was chosen as Asia's 100 most influential persons of the century by TIME magazine. *[http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/98/0925/cs1.html War of Words] Alejandro Reyes, Asiaweek.com, September 25, 1998. Retrieved 2004-12-08 *[http://www.thecore.nus.edu.sg/landow/post/singapore/government/leekuanyew/chron.html Lee Kuan Yew: A Chronology, 1923-1965] Largely based on Lee Kuan Yew. The Singapore Story: Memoirs of Lee Kuan Yew. Singapore: Times, 1998. Retrieved 2004-12-08 *[http://www.sfdonline.org/chia/Newsweek.html Free After 32 Lost Years] Chia Thye Poh interview with Newsweek magazine. Retrieved 2004-12-12 *[http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3150364 The Economist's apology] The Economist magazine's apology to Lee Kuan Yew and Lee Hsien Loong for its 2004 nepotism article *[http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/000405.html Gene expression: Lee Kuan Yew] *[http://www-cgi.cnn.com/ASIANOW/asiaweek/97/1024/feat5.html Orbituary of Lee Chin Koon] ms:Lee Kuan Yewminnan:Lí Kong-iāuzh-cn:李光耀1923 birthsSingaporean lawyersSingaporean politicians

Lee Kuan Yew



==Comments== In my opinion, Mr. Lee really should stay away fom the government. He has retire from the post of Prime minister, but still he is interrupting the government by becoming a minister from post to post. Let's see ( Prime minister to Senior minister to Minister mentor). What is the point? Something fishy eh! ---- Why no mention of Singapore's breakaway from Malaysia in 1965? In my opinion, this is the single most pivotal event in Mr. Lee's career. ---- Why no mention of Lee as a controversial figure in the eyes of Western liberal democrats? ---- A ruler who eventually hands his power to his own son. Democracy? Open Society? No Conspiracy? ---- :You mean George H. Bush? The saga haven't ends yet, Jeb Bush will be the next president. ==Lee Kuan Yew as a Japanese Imperial Army Intelligence Officer?== There seems to be this insistance in added information about him working "for the Japanese Imperial Army during WW2." Perhaps some verification of that line may be presented here for deliberation? --User:Huaiwei 14:14, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC) :http://www.thecore.nus.edu.sg/landow/post/singapore/government/leekuanyew/chron.html :1943-1944 Works as English-language editor for Japanese "information or propaganda department called the Hobudu," learning that Allies are winning war (63).--192.169.41.33 ::Hello Huaiwei, about Lee kuan Yew's collaboration with the Japanese, if you bother to read through the external link on the same page (The one to Time), there it mention he once collaborated with the Japanese. ::"During the Japanese occupation of Singapore he worked for a Japanese government propaganda department--although it has long been rumored that he was secretly passing intelligence to the British." Also, in his memoir, there within, he mentioned he worked as a transcriber of Allied radio reports for the Japanese. Now get your facts right before you do the vandalism! ::More from Asiaweek, courtesy of Google ::http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/98/0925/cs1-2.html ::"For the most part, Lee delivered, providing previously unknown details about his life during the Japanese Occupation, during which he worked as a black-market trader, a glue-making entrepreneur and a transcriber of Allied wire reports for the Japanese." ::More can also be said about his own Law firm Lee & Lee, previously holding an unusual monopoly on the conveyancing services for all HDB public housing.--81.178.187.180 :::Let me now explain why I have to end up revertig all those latest edits again, starting from the chain of edits after Mozzerati have reverted. :::*You insisted on adding \"he worked for the Japanese Imperial Army as an Intelligence Office holding a senior rank.\" Now tell us what is the relevance of this compared to him working as "a transcriber of Allied wire reports for the Japanese" (according to your asiaweek article), or as an "English-language editor for Japanese "information or propaganda department" (from the NUS source), both of which made no mention of his "senior rank," and neither did it mention he was directly involved in intelligence, let alone holding office? A transcriber or an editor is not quite the same as an intelligence officer. :::*Secondly, someone added \"The media is largely controlled by the ruling party and sometimes hostile towards members of the opposition. This has resulted in a repressive environment in which the citizens fear to speak up on political issues.\" This point has POV problems, obviously, and more importantly, what is the relevance of this additional point to Lee Kuan Yew's page? :::*The point about him being an elitist can probably stay. I edited it back into the latest revert. Discussions about him working for the Japanese as an editor or transcriber can go back too, but I dont think it should be writtern as an "intelligence officer", or to leave a vague reference to him having worked for them with no specific reference to the actual things have have done. :::Thats all. And finally, I dont see why anyone have to mess up my personal talk page by posting the entire bunch of contents above into it (and in the wrong position too, messing up the formatting), not to mention vandalising the main page itself again. Whoever he is, he appears to be turning this into a personal vendetta against me, when clearly I am not the only one undoing his edits and vandalising acts?--User:Huaiwei 04:23, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) ::::I do not appreciate this public slander toward a man who helped turn Singapore into one of Asia's economic powers. I have lived in Singapore all my life, and I feel that we owe a lot to him. He may be stubbornly old fashioned, but move on already. This article is heavily biased and no body i know calls him Lee Con You. And he is not the Mental Minister, but the Minister Mentor. I do hope that you do show more respect in the future. I suggest Wikipedia get someone else to rewrite this article--220.255.106.135 == Page protected == This page has been subject to persistent POV edits from an anonymous user 210.50.x.x. I am protecting it temporarily, until a consensus can be reached. Please to discuss on this talk page. -- User:CYD What has the anonymous user been adding? -- User:Djtotoro == Eugenics? == ''It should be noted that Lee is a strong supporter of eugenics.'' Why? User:Whkoh [User talk:Whkoh] 06:03, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC) He's considered a strong supporter of eugenics because of his policy of encouraging female university graduate students to marry and have children as opposed to the lower income class. The following are 2 quotes by Lee which illuminate his stance on eugenics. However, I don't know if they have been taken out of context, but it's worth noting that Stephen Jay Gould in his book The Mismeasure of Man criticised Lee's policy of encouraging marriages specifically among female university graduate students. *''If you don't include your women graduates in your breeding pool and leave them on the shelf, you would end up a more stupid society...So what happens? There will be less bright people to support dumb people in the next generation. That's a problem.'' -Lee Kuan Yew in 1983 National Day Rally *''We must encourage those who earn less than $200 per month and cannot afford to nurture and educate many children never to have more than two... We will regret the time lost if we do not now take the first tentative steps towards correcting a trend which can leave our society with a large number of the physically, intellecually and culturally anaemic.'' -Lee Kuan Yew in 1967. User:Ethereal 10:36, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC) This is all true, but he is talking about the social values and finacial ability of a certain class, not the genetic strength of one group over an other. Yes this is social engineering, but to call it eugenics is to over state the case in the extreme. User:LA JAY :Please sign when you post in future. Do it by adding ~~~~ after your message. That will post your user name and date of post. More to the topic, if Lee was more of an environmentalist than a hereditarian, then why should he be more concerned with encouraging the more intellectually-minded social classes to marry and have children rather than helping out those who are disadvantaged? It's difficult to qualify a practice as eugenic in nature rather than social engineering because of the vagueness of definitions involved. Social engineering encompasses eugenics, in any case, so the two are not mutually exclusive. User:Ethereal 15:22, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) To say that encouraging intellectually-minded social classes to marry and have children = eugenics ignores the basic concept of intelligence being formed from BOTH nature and nurture. User:35.10.236.85 05:29, 15 May 2005 (UTC) ==Issues with NPOV== *''"Many Allied Soldiers and fellow Singaporeans were killed because of his war time work with the Japanese Military". This seems to me more of an opinion than a fact. Source? *''"thus became the most prominent traitor of Singapore at that moment" Source? Seems more like an opinion since I don't think opinion polls were taken during WW2. *''"He is widely respected and feared but hated by the people of Singapore," Hated? Source? I stongly dispute the accuracy of this statement. Personally, I don't know of anyone who "hates" him. And I lived in Singapore for 18 years. *''"who he rules roughshod with an iron fist, with fines and imprisonment for any minor travesty." "roughshod" and "travesty" are not neutal language. Maybe "who he rules with an iron fist. Singapore is known for its numerous fines and imprisonment for minor crimes." *''"He has often claimed, though unjustified, the credited as the architect of its prosperity" "though unjustified" is an opinion. Whether true or not, sentence also does not make sense grammatically. I suggest "He is often credited as the architect of its prosperity. However, others like his Deputy Prime Minister, an economist, Dr. Goh Keng Swee, also played a significant role in the economy." *''The "Personal life and family" section reads more like an accusation of nepotism. This should be an article about Lee's *personal life and family*. This looks familar though. I've seen it on anti-PAP websites :-). This article is heavy on criticims and opinions and lacking on facts about "Lee Kuan Yew". Having read Wiki's NPOV policy, I think this article fails on "Fairness and sympathetic tone", amongst other things. I'm new to editing Wiki articles so I'm open to ideas. --User:Leonardwee 03:01, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) ==Quote by Lee Kuan Yew== Here is the quote by LKY saying he preferred to be feared rather than loved: *"''Between being loved and being feared, I have always believed Machiavelli was right. If nobody is afraid of me, I’m meaningless.''" (Lee Kuan Yew, 1998, The Singapore Story) User:Ethereal 15:02, 1 May 2005 (UTC) == November 26? == I can't believe it. In local history books and as evidenced from this website[http://www.pelanduk.com/detail.cfm?&ID=344], Goh became PM on November 28, not 26. The same applies to Lee Kuan Yew. User:Mr Tan 12:25, 21 May 2005 (UTC) ==Christian detention == See [http://www.exploitz.com/Singapore-Religious-Change-cg.php] for ''In view of the insurgent local Christian missionaries which was responsible for boosting the Christian population from 10% in 1980 to 19% in 1988, a series of leaders, including Lee Kuan Yew, condemned "insensitive evangelization" as a serious threat to racial harmony. This was evidenced in the fact that several arrests attempts, under the Internal Security Act, had been made by Lee Kuan Yew against Catholic and Protestant insurgent groups who had attempted to turn against the government. Official restatements of the virtue of and necessity for religious tolerance were mixed with threats of detention without trial for religious extremists. It was noted, however, as early as 1974, the government had "advised" the Bible Society of Singapore to stop publishing materials in Malay. '' User:Mr Tan 14:30, 26 May 2005 (UTC) :My interpretations of the source you gave are as follow: * Lee's comment on "insensitive evangelization" refers to instances of "christian proselytization directed at Malays". It is not related to the increase in Christian population which is mainly from the Chinese community. * The 1987 ISA arrest of Tan Wah Piow and others was due to their underground pro-Marxist subversive activities, under the cover of a Roman Catholic organization. This is not related to any evangelical activity per se. Therefore, if you are refering to the 1987 arrest, then describing it as "christian detention" is quite misleading; and "detection of pro-Marxist activists" would be more appropriate. * I am not sure if any "arrests attempts" were actually made but failed. The source you gave does not mentioned any "arrests attempts". But it is clear that Lee did issued a warning that the ISA would be used against those who posed a serious threat to racial harmony, considering the lessons learned from the 1964 and 1968 racial riots. The principle involved is "preventive detention", but usually a stern warning or "advice" will do the trick. ;-) :Also, the Internal Security Act does not empowered the government to carry out secret detention, unlike the detention of enemy combatants by the US at Guantanamo Bay. In other words, any arrests made under the ISA is publicly known. Obviously, some facts are not easy to find, I will be interested in any further information you may provide. -- User:Vsion 08:17, 26 May 2005 (UTC) Read [http://www.mongabay.com/reference/country_studies/singapore/SOCIETY.html] to reanalyse the facts (it may also help in expanding the article). User:Mr Tan 19:11, 27 May 2005 (UTC) : Thanks, the article says :
''... 1987 the government detained a group of Roman Catholic social activists, accusing them of using church organizations as cover for a Marxist plot. ... ... ''
* it shows that the 1987 arrest of a small group of catholics is because of alleged Marxist plot , not evangelical activities in general. * the proselytising towards non-Muslims might caused some unpleasantness and disgust, but it does not consitute an internal security threat. Whereas "proselytising towards Muslims" is extrememly provocative (same anywhere in the world, not just Singapore), which is a main concern of ISD and they are ready to use ISA against (hence the warning, "advice", etc). On the other hand, it is unlikely ISA will be used against "proselytising towards non-Muslims", so I don't think the "warning" extends to these. -- User:Vsion 17:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC) == phrase == What was meant by "was throughly absorbed with the British lifestyle"? It needs to be edited, but I'm not sure what the author meant by it. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 10:57, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) == credit accounts == ''"... and unlimited credit accounts at John Little’s and Robinsons. "''
Did they had credit accounts at that time? What is the source for this? -- User:Vsion 06:11, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Name == The name Harry on Lee Kuan Yew should be in bold. Although he did not use it officially nowadays, but his birth certificate states as Harry Lee Kuan Yew, thus it should be bracketed, yet bold. Unless you link the page to me yourself. User:Mr Tan 23:24, 3 June 2005 (UTC) :What is bolded is the name given in the article title; additions (such as titles and alternative or additional names) are not part of the bolding. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 16:30, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) Give me the link first to the policy page. User:Mr Tan 00:33, 4 June 2005 (UTC) :Just look at other pages. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 17:20, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) Where? I want the link, please? Otherwise I will treat it as vandalism not giving for proper definition if you revert again. User:Mr Tan 01:22, 4 June 2005 (UTC) :I must concur with User:Mel Etitis on this one. Your interpretation of the bolding style rule is incorrect, and your last edit resulted in a sentence which makes no sense to me, a native English speaker. User:Kelly Martin 17:36, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC) He did not show the policy page that this is not allowed! User:Mr Tan :That's not his job. He explained his edit - you should familiarise yourself with the style conventions if you intend to challenge them. It's not hard to look it up. I'm reverting it now. --User:Khaosworks 17:52, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC) Mr Tan has reverted this four times in the last 24 hours; I've reported that at the 3RR page; could you revert his change, as I'm out of reverts myself? User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 17:43, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) No, don't do that. He did not give proper explanations in the first place. Also, he is lying at my first revert. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR#User:Mr_TanUser:Mr Tan 01:47, 4 June 2005 (UTC) :Mel, I'm not going to do the revert myself as I'm doing RC patrol at the moment and I prefer not to do content reverts while doing vandalism reverts. I'm sure someone else will come along and attend to it soon enough. :To User:Mr Tan: Mel's edits are not vandalism; what you have here is a content dispute and, by definition, a content dispute is not vandalism. Please refrain from referring to good-faith edits as 'vandalism'. User:Kelly Martin 17:54, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC) ::That's OK — in fact User:Khaosworks has done it now (and cleared up an obscure passage into the bargain). User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 18:04, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) There are plenty of pages where more than the article title itself is bolded, see Paul McCartney, Bill Clinton. The logical rule seems to be to bold the persons full name(s). User:Zocky 18:08, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) :I think that there are differences between those examples and this. Neither of them, for example, has part of the name in brackets. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 18:13, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::Probably this one shouldn't either. It's just like with James Paul McCartney. His full name has a first part that he doesn't use. So, if there's a particualr need to distinguish his full name from the one his mostly known under, we can use "Harry Lee Kuan Yew, more commonly known as Lee Kuan Yew..." or "Lee Kuan Yew (born Harry Lee Kuan Yew..." User:Zocky 18:19, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) The trouble is that it's not clear what the status of the "Harry" is. The text claims that it was given to him by his grandfather, which suggests that it was at best a nickname. there's no indication that it was used by anyone aside from his grandfather. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 18:27, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) There's plenty of hits on google for "Harry Lee Kuan Yew" [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22harry+lee+kuan+yew%22+-wikipedia&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=off&start=10&sa=N] and a cursory reading of some of them shows that he is indeed (also) known by this name. [http://www.apng.org/old/namecard/name-convention1.8.html] uses him to explain how Westernised asian names are used. We could leave it like I did it, or maybe do something like what's done on Bruce Lee - explain the name(s) lower on the page. User:Zocky 18:35, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) :That's true enough — though it still doesn't explain what its status is. Is it a nickname or his actual name? It seems to me that the previous state of the article (mentioning the "Harry" in the text) was clear and sufficient. Mr Tan has suddenly decided to add it to his name in the summary, though in brackets, and the result is confusion. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 18:49, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) == (Harry) Lee Kuan Yew == Lee was born registered as "Harry Lee Kuan Yew". I know and have stated that he is officially known as Lee Kuan Yew, but the fact that only use "Lee Kuan Yew" in his speeches should not ne excluded. User:Mr Tan 17:11, 4 June 2005 (UTC) :Do you have a citation for this? User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 10:05, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Citations, please. He signs off as Lee Kuan Yew, he is overwhelming referred to in journalistic reports as Lee Kuan Yew, his autobiography is authored by Lee Kuan Yew - for all intents and purposes, he never uses the name except when informally addressed by friends. --User:Khaosworks 12:01, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) Dear Mr Chua and Mel, I do agree with what you say. He is addressed as "Lee Kuan Yew" in the news reports, and that is why I wrote it as "formally addressed as Lee Kuan Yew". I have evidenced for the fact that he was born as "Harry Lee Kuan Yew". I'm sorry, but I found the origin of his name is his official biography, so I cannot provide you with any Internet websites, and the official bography is the citation. The book in Chinese is, in English translation (I cannot type it out in Chinese for I have just repaired my computer and yet to retrieve my Chinese Star software) Lee Kuan Yew--recollections, 1923-1965. Thanks. Any objections in reverting to the old style? User:Mr Tan 21:22, 4 June 2005 (UTC) :The way it now is neutral between "Harry" being an official name that isn't much used and being a nickname used on occasion; why don't we leave it until a citation can be given one way or the other? For most of the time that you've been editing this article it's not only been placed after his full name, but in brackets, so it can't be that urgent that it be placed in front of his name, unbracketed, and bolded. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 13:31, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) :In addition, even if he was born "Harry", that's not the name he uses most often and formally now, so at best it should read "Lee Kuan Yew, (born Harry Lee Kuan Yew)" or something similar, i.e. the formal name being given prominence. --User:Khaosworks 13:37, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) See how the Malays and westerners address themselves first. For example, Fred Korematsu, in bold is addressed as Fred Toyosaburo Korematsu, so the full name should be at the beginning of the article, while his formal styling comes next. User:Mr Tan 23:36, 4 June 2005 (UTC) :That's not the same. When Fred Korematsu refers to himself like that it is plainly not a ''formal'' usage, but a contraction of his full name. In contrast, when Lee Kuan Yew refers to himself as Lee Kuan Yew, it is not a contraction of Harry Lee - he fully intends it to be his official name. --User:Khaosworks 15:55, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) Do you have any proof that he has corrected his name? User:Mr Tan 23:56, 4 June 2005 (UTC) :You will also note that in government webpages ([http://www.cabinet.gov.sg/mmlee.htm example]), the Minister Mentor is referred to as simply "Lee Kuan Yew" throughout. --User:Khaosworks 16:00, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) #At the moment, at least, you are alone in wanting your version. To replace it with an edit summary that refers to the Talk page is thus not acceptable. You haven't yet supplied evidence that "Harry" is his real name rather than a nickname. #Even if 1. weren't the case, you reverted a large number of my edits that corrected your English; that's not only unacceptable, it's simple vandalism. It's difficult if not impossible to think of a good-faith reason for you to do so. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 15:58, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) I'm sorry, but you didn't say that you corrected the grammar. I'm targeting at the name, so I reverted everything in the process. My version? Go and check his official Chinese biography. I have already done the best that I can, but I'm afraid that I cannot type the name out in Chinese. Lee himself acknowledged that Harry is his real name. User:Mr Tan 00:14, 5 June 2005 (UTC) :Again, you miss the point. Harry Lee may be his real name, but it's certainly not the name he uses formally, and thus should not be the name that is given prominence. --User:Khaosworks 16:25, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) This applies to George W. Bush, whose name is George Walker Bush! Lee must have the idea of using Lee Kuan Yew, just like leaving out a portion of their full name into official use, and in news Bush is addressed as "George W. Bush" rather than his full name "George Walker Bush". However, it is not common among the Chinese people, so you may be a bit astonished. Do you get my point? If agreed, I go back to the old style. User:Mr Tan 11:45, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) Î :No, I don't get your point. Explain more clearly. --User:Khaosworks 12:42, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) :I'm also unclear (and the use of initials is surely irrelevant to the present point). I'm also unsure what Mr Tan means by "real name" in this context, and how this fits with what the text says about "Harry" being given to him by his grandfather. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 14:37, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::I believe that by "real name" he is suggesting that Harry Lee Kuan Yew is the name on Lee's birth certificate. I do not know whether this is the case or not, but that does not preclude it being suggested by his grandfather (my own Chinese name on my birth certificate was my grandfather's contribution, for example). --User:Khaosworks 14:41, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) So what Tan actually means is that "Harry" was suggested by his grandfather, and that the suggestion was adopted by his parents. We still need some confirmation of this, though (not only of the basic fact, but also of the ordering on the birth certificate). User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 15:17, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) I want to highlight that the birth name should be used in the very first part of the article. Even though Lee may be only using "Lee Kuan Yew" formally, that does not mean that he has changed his birth name, for I don't see anywhere else he has dropped of the "Harry", thus his full name should still be "Harry Lee Kuan Yew". So, "Harry Lee Kuan Yew" should be in the first part of the article, and "Lee Kuan Yew" should be mentioned as "formally styled as". The current version of the article, however, states that he is not only known as "Lee Kuan Yew" but also as "Harry Lee Kuan Yew", which should not be the case. User:Mr Tan 15:21, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) :I haven't changed my birth name, but I would be annoyed if someone insisted on referring to me as "Chua Seng Leng Terence" instead of the less unweildy "Terence Chua" outside of official documentation that needs to duplicate my birth certificate/IC/passport (where I have no choice). Again, he is referred to as Lee Kuan Yew in all government texts, so it is the formal name that is most used. You are quite alone in this, Tan. Please accept consensus. --User:Khaosworks 15:33, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) There is another point where Mel Etitis is wrong. In his biography, he stated that all his siblings, except Suan Yew, had western names. However, I have just got a quote from his biography, stating that "When my youngest brother "Suan Yew" was born, I told my parents not to give him a Western name, because we are not Christians. After consideration, my parents heeded for my advice..." User:Mr Tan 15:24, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)User:Mr Tan But what we want is the fact, not consensus. If there are people like this, wikipedia will be full of mistakes. Otherwise I have an alternative. Change "sometimes known as" to "born Harry Lee Kuan Yew". Any opinion? User:Mr Tan 15:36, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)User:Mr Tan Wait. Mr Chua, did you say " formal name"? Formal name does not mean full name. So long I have stated "Formally addressed as" I believe that this should get your point, for it stress the point that "Lee Kuan Yew" is always used. And that is what I want in this very article itself. Anymore opinion? User:Mr Tan 15:43, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)User:Mr Tan :We're not arguing about whether he is named Harry Lee or not. I accept that he has been called Harry Lee - that's well known. The question is which is to be given prominence, and consensus seems to be that the name most used is to be given prominence. That is how the article is worded at the moment. --User:Khaosworks 15:48, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) No, no, you are wrong again. He is not called "harry Lee", just "Lee Kuan Yew", in terms of official news reports, government reports, etc (excluding birth certificate). Didn't my version stresses on his prominence of his formally styled name, at the same time stressed that he is in actual fact "Harry Lee Kuan Yew"? So what's the big fuss? User:Mr Tan 16:18, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) User:Mr Tan :That was what I was saying: he's called "Lee Kuan Yew" ''formally''. He is also called Harry Lee informally. Both are his names. Your version puts Harry Lee Kuan Yew at the top of the article. The current version is the other way around. We should place the formal address first. --User:Khaosworks 16:30, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) You said that informally means that Harry is merely his nickname. That is not true, however. Like the westerners, they have also such a similar name system like Lee. Let me show a table to explain more clearly: * Harry Lee Kuan Yew=Ronald Wilson Reagan * Lee Kuan Yew=Ronald Reagan. Looking at the table, we can see that the "Wilson" is ommitted, that applies to "Harry", for Ronald Wilson Reagan is formally addressed as Ronald Reagan. The same applies to Lee Kuan Yew. And I want the style exactly like Ronald Reagan, the titile of the page "Lee Kuan Yew", but his full name "Harry Lee Kuan Yew" in bold. That is what I mean. User:Mr Tan 03:54, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)User:Mr Tan :Well, you're not going to get it, because as I have tried to explain time and time again, irrespective of whether his full name is Harry Lee Kuan Yew or not, the fact that Lee Kuan Yew is the formal name used most often and in official documents and correspondence means that it should be given prominence and Harry Lee (in bold, as you will note) be given secondary status. --User:Khaosworks 04:17, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) Why? In all other articles, the full name is written in bold with primary status. This is making the article as an odd one out, making it strange. I have already explained that Lee Kuan Yew is his formally adressing style, and this goes exactly to Ronald Reagan, but it has no mention in that article itself. I do not totally believe in consensus, but rather with the style with most of the other articles. Opinions? Or I assume that everyone have made themselves understood. User:Mr TanUser:Mr Tan 06:55, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :You're either deliberately refusing to understand or are incapable of understanding, and I can see why JM Bell washed his hands of you - I will do the same. --User:Khaosworks 12:19, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) :For some reason you've started to use a peculiar tactic. let's get this straight: the argument isn't won by the last person to write a comment. It is not acceptable for you to assume that you can do what you like just because no-one has replied to you within a certain time (all too oftem you insist on answers within an hour or so). If you don't like the principle of consensus, why not find another project, one that works in a way that you ''do'' like? User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 09:27, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) Consensus doesn't work well all the time, in fact it can make matters sometimes worse. You want me to call down a hundred people to this article for a consensus? Three to four people involved in a consensus? How about the rest of the people? Just get to Ronald Reagan and see the structure of the article--that is what I want, working on sensible real-world laws, the law of the nature--that is better. User:Mr TanUser:Mr Tan 12:06, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) It seems that there are no more comments--I assume that everyone have made this understood, and I making the appropriate changes. Please feel free to post any doubts in my talk page or here if you still have any disagreements. User:Mr TanUser:Mr Tan 14:29, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Just look up to my last comment. That no-one has replied to your latest comment for a couple of hours ''does not'' mean that your views have been accepted. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 14:37, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :And the simple fact of the matter is, I'm no longer replying because it's obvious you're not understanding or refusing to, so there's no longer any real point in discussing it. Your view is not accepted as consensus, simple as that. Continuing to whine about it won't help. --User:Khaosworks 14:42, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) What you want me to do? You still do not get the point, and I want to reach an agreement. I have already explained; and I can't whine for I'm not a dog. You are the one not understanding, for you did not accept the Ronald Reagan issue in the first place. I'm not going to look at the consensus, for only three of us are involved. I hold out for three days, and if by that time there is no opinion, I will do the appropriate edit. User:Mr TanUser:Mr Tan 14:45, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :But you are whining — interminably. We don't always get our own ways; you need to learn to live with that. I've often found that I'm out-voted on articles, and that changes I want to make can't be made. Go and do something else. There ''is'' an opinion, it's just that you don't like it. If you make this edit despite no-one else here agreeing with it, you're just going to find that it's reverted again. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 14:53, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) I do not like some of wikipedia rules--nor do I care about your opinion---see what User:Zocky have to say. The edit seems misleading, as he says. User:Mr TanUser:Mr Tan 14:57, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Whether or not you like the rules is immaterial (and you should be grateful to them; they're often all that's standing between you and a permanent block from editing). User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 15:05, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :You don't want to reach an agreement. You want us to agree with you. Ronald Reagan is a different case from this article. One more time, is how it works: :The article name, Ronald Reagan, is how he is known generally. Ronald Wilson Reagan is his formal name (i.e. name as used on formal documentation), which happens to be his full name. :The article name, Lee Kuan Yew, is how he is known generally. Lee Kuan Yew is his formal name (i.e. name as used on formal documentation), which does ''not'' happen to be his full name. :The article should place the formal name first. And any other known names second. --User:Khaosworks 15:11, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) I have read the message. I'm not throwing tantrums; just asking Zocky to come over to analyse the problem. For this dispute, other users are welcome, this dispute is permanently on (at least not in the case of you two, User:Khaosworks and User:Mel Etitis). For me, I agree to the point of "formally styled as", so everybody is strongly to post their views or vote. No interruptions, please, especially Mel, if the discussion remains just as stagnant. User:Mr Tan 15:15, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) Can you show me a policy or semi-policy page stating to support your claims? If that is the case, I apologise for all trouble and mishaps, but I don't want doubts to be floating in my mind. If consensus is excluded, there should be no reason for me to revert, but I have to follow the law. User:Mr TanUser:Mr Tan 15:24, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :What do you mean by "consensus is excluded"? It does not seem to make sense in the context of the conversation. What claim do you want support of? Be specific. --User:Khaosworks 15:52, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) What I mean is do you have any policy/semi-policy to back your claims that the fomal name be placed first, rather than the full name? Or the reverse? User:Mr Tan 16:02, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles)#Non-European and non-Western (names and titles): "Apply ''Most general rule overall'': use the most common form of the name used in English if none of the rules cover a specific problem." --User:Khaosworks 16:29, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC) Thanks, and please give me some time to sort things out. User:Mr Tan 16:33, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) This point maybe the answer to the dispute from the link you stated above (I'm sleepy and a bit confused now, sorry): ''In East Asian names, look at common English usage to decide whether the western first-name last-name or the eastern last-name first-name order should be used. As a rule of thumb, Japanese names should usually be given in the western, Chinese names in the eastern order. A redirect from whatever order is not used, is almost always a good idea. Again, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (China-related articles), Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). '' User:Mr Tan 16:38, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) Maybe I've missed something, but if I had written the intro, knowing what I know from the above discussion, I would have written, "Harry Lee Kuan Yew, usually known as Lee Kuan Yew..." and so on. I believe this would conform perfectly well to the wikipedia conventions. User:Deb 16:48, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) Agree, but my style is, Harry Lee Kuan Yew (...), formally addressed as Lee Kuan Yew stresses the point that in the news, government papers, he is addressed as Lee Kuan Yew. User:Mr Tan 16:57, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) :The problem is partly that Mr Tan suddenly changed the summary without explanation, and getting any sort of information about it was a long, painful, drawn-out process, which has doubtless played a rôle in solidifying positions. But there's also the problem that the only reason we have to accept that "Harry" is part of his real name, on his birth-certificate, is Mr Tan's claim — and he's too often proved to be inaccurate in his claims for us to just swallow what he says. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 17:02, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) I agree with those who say that Mr. Tan has to prove that "Harry" is indeed part of his full name, and not just a nick-name. That said, I don't see how Harry Lee Kuan Yew is any different from Anthony Charles Lynton Blair or James Earl Carter, Jr.. Our policy is normally to give the full name first, not the "formal name," whatever the hell that is. But before I would support a change, Mr. Tan is going to have to provide a source for his claim that Harry is, indeed, a part of his full name, rather than a nickname. User:John KenneyUser_talk:John Kenney 17:12, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) See his biograhies: * The Singapore Story (ISBN 0130208035) * 李光耀 hui yi lu: 1923-1965. (I haven't install my Chinese software, sorry!) You can find the sources there, and see that Harry is his real name. User:Mr Tan 03:41, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Does it say that it is on his birth certificate? --User:Khaosworks 04:41, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC) Then why his brothers (except Suan Yew), and his sister have western names, see "When my youngest brother "Suan Yew" was born, I told my parents not to give him a Western name, because we are not Christians. After consideration, my parents heeded for my advice...", or just check his biography--there are a lot of biographies, English and Chinese alike, stating about his early life--I have stated two of them already. User:Mr Tan 05:32, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC) :That's not really answering my question, though. --User:Khaosworks 19:16, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC) ::From a different perspective, I feel it is very inappropriate to start off the article with "Harry Lee ......". His grandfather gave him the English name "Harry" way back in 1920s during the colonial time hoping this would help him better associate with the British ruling class. Then came world war II; Lee became anti-colonial, pro-independence and nationalistic. For over fifty years as a public figure, he rejected the use of "Harry" in formal settings to disassociate himself with colonialism. Now, to insist on putting back "Harry" into his name; it is like turning the clock back to the 1920s; this is totally antithesis of what this man represents. As Tan said, Lee even advised against giving his younger brother a western name. Wikipedia is not a birth-registry. Using "Lee Kuan Yew" just makes more sense here. -- User:Vsion 05:47, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC) Jimmy Carter rejected his full name of "James Earl Carter," to the extent of having "Jimmy Carter" appear on the ballots in elections he was running in. Presidents Grover Cleveland, Woodrow Wilson, and Calvin Coolidge also completely eschewed use of their actual first names (Stephen, Thomas, and John). The motives for this are obviously different, but if Harry is actually part of his name, I don't see as the basic issue at hand is any different. User:John KenneyUser_talk:John Kenney 19:27, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC) :But User:Vsion surely has a good point. While it wouldn't be grounds not to mention "Harry" at all, it's odd to open the article by naming him in a way that he rejected. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 21:15, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::By a complete coincidence, talk in the Common Room turned to Lee Kuan Yew yesterday after lunch (sparked by a discussion between an orientalist and an economist), and I took the opportunity to ask about the name. There was no certainty, though both believed that it wasn't actually on Lee's birth certificate, and that he only started using it at Cambridge in order to fit in, dropping it with distaste later. The orientalist is going to check the copies of Lee's books – which are in the Oriental Institute library here – and let me know what he finds. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 08:35, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) Get to the point here: May I know who did you ask? The orientalist or the economist? And also, how can you assume that he rejected the "Harry"? Can you please provide citations concerning this claim? To further stress the point here from Vsion: "he rejected the use of "Harry" in formal settings to disassociate himself with colonialism.", rejecting the use of Harry in formal settings does not amount to the fact that he has totally dropped off his name in his identity card. Unless somebody can provide a piece of solid evidence that his name is "Lee Kuan Yew" and no longer "Harry Lee Kuan Yew", I do not see why the Harry should not be mentioned at the very start of the article. User:Mr Tan 09:39, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) I see no objections in his name for the past 12 hours or so, so I'm putting it as Harry Lee Kuan Yew. Please post all objections in this very talk page itself. User:Mr Tan 04:12, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) :How many times do we have to tell you that silence does not equate assent? Wait for Mel's colleagues to come back with one answer or another. --User:Khaosworks 04:38, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC) Sigh..Allright. Apologies. He is on the net the whole night, yet no reply. Neverr mind about that. But what if the silence is going to drag on for a month? User:Mr Tan 05:49, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) :There was nothing in your message that warranted response. You started with an aggressive but completely obscure "Get to the point here", went on to ask a pointless question which had already been answered in what I'd said before, and then demanded a citation when I'd just said that my colleague was going to check for me. Your poor manners only get worse. I'm interested that, when on User talk:SlimVirgin I referred to this habit of demanding answers and then pretending that a lack of response meant that everyone agrees with you, you claimed to have "turned over a new leaf". I now wonder what you think that phrase means. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 10:35, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) I am very sorry if you feel that my attitude is rude, but to me, I feel that my attitude is assertive, rather than aggressive. Anyway, I have seen your point. I would be also be very happy if you can let me know the name of the orientalist that you are refering to, and the location of the "Oriental Library" that you are refering to. User:Mr Tan 13:21, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) :It's the Oriental Institute library here in Oxford. I'll ask my colleague if he objects to having his name posted here. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 13:41, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) This case, for the time being, shall rest. I shall see to your response in the near-future. User:Mr Tan 14:09, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) Er....I entered the conversation too late, but I must say I agree that "Harry" dosent have a place in this page title in particular, and I would only barely agree to it being mentioned as part of his full name. I would like to point out that name changes do occur to people officially, and yes, the name on my birth certiciate is "slightly" different from the one on my IC now, because it has an English name included! :D Do Lee Kuan Yew still have the word "Harry" in his current official full name now? I strongly doubt so.--User:Huaiwei 14:07, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) Thanks, but I see that your message has little or no relation to the conversation. Wait for Mel Etitis' response first. User:Mr Tan 14:11, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Mr Tan is, of course, wrong; your comment is relevant to the discussion, and your question is important. Thanks for joining in. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 14:23, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) A portion of it; at least. Never mind; I just hope that you can give us a comment as soon as possible from your colleagues. Good luck. User:Mr Tan 16:23, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) I cannot see where Mel has given a reply concerning Mel; but I have posted a message to him already. User:Mr Tan 15:07, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC) :It is a little over three days since I mentioned this — with a weekend in between. As you've given no evidence for your desired edit, there's no great rush. Wait until I go into College and see my colleague. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 16:18, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC) Proceed to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Khaosworks#Harry_Lee_Kuan_Yew] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mr_Tan#.22Harry.22_Lee] for the "Harry". Discussion needed. User:Mr Tan 03:49, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Mr Tan has simply directed you to his talk page when my intent was that he transfer the conversation here. In the interests of keeping everything neatly on this page, let me paste the relevant extracts here: ::''Check the book: 李光耀回忆录：1923－1965 for more information. In the book, note this sentence from the book: 我出世的时候, 家里.... 但是, 祖父出于对英国人的仰慕, 给我多加了一个洋名 Harry. 于是我的全名 变成 "Harry Lee Kuan Yew". Lee stated this, and he must have a birth certificate. Since he stated that this is the "full name", a full name is always stated in the birth cert. I believe that your "Terence" must be included in the birth cert? I suppose? He must have the same case as you. ::::User:Mr Tan 03:05, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)'' :The passage he quotes can be translated as: "When I was born, in the family... But, grandfather because he admired the English people, gave me an additional Western name Harry. Thus, my full name became 'Harry Lee Kuan Yew'." My reply: ::''As I said, put it up on Talk:Lee Kuan Yew. While I can see that "chuen ming" is "full name", a "full name" does not necessarily mean it must be on the birth certificate. My first name is, but that's because my parents registered it - I have many friends whose "full names" include a Christian name but the same are not on their birth certificate. ::''That being said, the passage is still suggestive, and if you can track down the English version, it would go a long way towards verifying your claim. The title of his English memoir is ''The Singapore Story: Memoirs of Lee Kuan Yew''. If you find the English version, quote it, and tell us which page it is on. I say again, put this up on Talk:Lee Kuan Yew so the others can see it. --User:Khaosworks 03:45, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)'' :If someone has access to a copy of the English version of the memoir, perhaps they can find the relevant page - Mr Tan says it is in the first chapter - so that it can be verified. --User:Khaosworks 04:07, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC) ::I marched up to my bookshelf, and quote from page 28 (chapter 2): ::"But my grandfather's admiration for the British made him add "Harry" to my name, so I was Harry Lee Kuan Yew. My two younger brothers, Kim Yew and Thiam Yew, were also giben Christian names - Dennis and Freddy respectively. At that time few non-Christian Chinese did this, and at school later I was to find myself the odd boy out with a personal name like "Harry". When my youngest brother, Suan Yew, was born in 1933, I persuaded my parents not to give him a Christian name since we were not Christians." ::Not much, but as I said before, it is not of major concern whether "Harry" was his birth name or not. The fact is the book is copyrighted to Lee Kuan Yew, not Harry Lee Kuan Yew. Tells us alot, dosent it?--User:Huaiwei 04:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) How about 于是我的全名 变成 "Harry Lee Kuan Yew"? Of course, how about Jimmy Carter? Jimmy Carter full name is "James Earl Carter, Jr.". And the full name is addressed at the start of the page. "Lee Kuan Yew" is his formal styling, but did he ever say that is his full name or he has changed his name? Yes, he is addressed as "Lee Kuan Yew" in all official documents, but that does not amount to him changing his name. If he doesn't, then his full name should still be "Harry Lee Kuan Yew". So, like Jimmy Carter, the Harry should be included for the convinence of the reference of the general public. Opinions? User:Mr Tan 06:43, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) I have waited for days but I have yet to receive a response. If people disagree that "Harry lee Kuan Yew" is his full name, why is there a phrase which put him as "He is also known as Harry Lee Kuan Yew."? What the meaning of this? If this is so, you might as well put up "Harry Lee Kuan Yew" instead. User:Mr Tan 05:08, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Also known as doesn't mean that it is his full name - it simply means he is also known as that. I am still unconvinced that Harry Lee is his birth certificate name; and in any case, it is still something that he no longer users. My view is that the paragraph reads fine as it is. It is neutral as to whether the name is his birth name or not, it emphasises rightly that "Lee Kuan Yew" is the name he primarily uses, and it mentions that he is also known as Harry. It covers all the bases and does not need revision. --User:Khaosworks 05:14, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC) While I have scanned between the English and Chinese versions of is biographies, the Chinese biography acknowledges that "Harry lee Kuan Yew" is his full name but not the English. It is because that he neither officially announced that he changed his name, or merely that he does not want to use the "Harry", makes us into such a jumbled-up state. To conclude the matter, I would suggest that something be written as "born Harry Lee Kuan Yew" since you say that he no longer uses his name. I have tried that, but Mel reverted it. Opinions? User:Mr Tan 05:48, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) :I have already stated my view. We don't know for sure he was ''born'' Lee Kuan Yew. So the current version is vague enough to cover that. --User:Khaosworks 10:11, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC) I have already stated how he got his "Harry" in the article itself. However, the Harry could merely be a nickname. However, I also have doubts to my last sentence that it is a nickname. In his biography, I noticed that Lee was awkward for having "Harry" in his name for he is not a Christian. Opinions? User:Mr Tan 11:07, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Definitely not "Harry Lee Kuan Yew". He (1) no longer refers to himself as Harry Lee Kuan Yew, because he specifically states that he does not like to refer to himself with a Western name when he is an Asian; (2) it may be in his ''British'' birth certificate, but he is no longer a British citizen. :His Western name is used informally between close friends, but never in public. This does not mean that his full name is Harry Lee Kuan Yew. User:Mandel 08:33, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC) ==== By Mel Etitis ==== ::User:Khaosworks has it right here. I'm still waiting to hear from my colleague. The world doesn't revolve around Wikipedia, and a wait of a few days won't hurt anyone. I've had to wait much longer than this when I've e-mailed people for information. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 11:03, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Copyedit == The latest additions have introduced so much poor English into the article that it needs a thorough overhaul; I'll do it when I can, but I've placed the "copyedit" tag to alert memners of the copy-editing team (in case they can find time before me). User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 09:23, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) But I have only contributed two or three paragraphs of information! Anyway, I have tried copyediting on my new information, so, if you see no more mistakes, I will suggested that the tag be removed. Thanks. User:Mr Tan 11:37, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) :You've succeeded only in adding more mistakes. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 12:52, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) Then, please, explain why and help me do the appropriate ammendments. I really want to learn and know why. Thanks. User:Mr Tan 13:05, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) :I'm afraid that I've long come to the conclusion that you're unteachable. However, I've copy-edited the article. There may be more to be done; I didn't have time to do a thorough job. User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 17:10, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) = Become a Featured Article candidate? = This article already has a size of 34kb, and it is already considered a very informative article, thus having the potential to become a featured article. If anybody wish, I would be happy to work with him/her to make Lee Kuan Yew as the first Singapore-related featured article, but more information and some copyediting is needed first. People who are interested may list their names below to be a participant of working on Lee Kuan Yew. Thanks. User:Mr Tan 12:11, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Not a chance; the article has to be stable... User:Mel Etitis (Μελ_Ετητης)">User talk:Mel Etitis 10:36, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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