My summary was mistaken: the chart came from hiragana, not katakana. User:Gwalla — User:Gwalla | User talk:Gwalla 23:25, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC) Previous discussion of the merge of "Historical kana usage": Talk:Historical kana usage User:Gwalla — User:Gwalla | User talk:Gwalla 23:29, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC) == Discrepancy? == Was always taught that "Wi" and "We" really sound like "Yi" and "Ye" -- and I recall charts where these letters occur in the "ya" column. Can anyone confirm this? no one spells the old name of tokyo "wedo" and "yido" sounds more like the way really old folks pronounce the word for water well. :Yes, I thought so too. As examples there are ヱビス and ヱン, typically romanized as Yebisu and Yen. :According to a Japanese Wikipedia article [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%AE%9A%E5%AE%B6%E4%BB%AE%E5%90%8D%E9%81%A3], the wi, we characters changed pronunciation to i, ye sometime during the 10-11th centuries (wi was never yi). Later, ye became e. In any case, the romanization should be in synch with how it's done in the hepburn page. ::Basically, we and e were the same, both pronounced ye. == Names? == I'm not sure some of these historical kana names are actually historically spelled using the kana. In particular, Inouye should be "Yinouye" if it were faithful to the "historical" spelling; "Inouye" in that orthography appears only in the United States and is due to simplification of transliteration. "Iwo" also seems to be that way. There is also no "kw" kana in "historical" japanese. : That's only partially correct about "kw." There was no one kana for "kw." However, it was common (especially in Kyoto) to pronounce words with a "kw" and spell them with a ku - wa. Check Oku no Hosomichi, I recall seeing some in there. Of course, back in the olden days, they never made kana smaller, but it's essentially the same as the modern katakana ku - xa. Anyhow, even in Kyoto, the pronunciations had all shifted over to ka by the time spelling reform came, so the wa's were dropped and never seen again. --User:Carlj7 04:00, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC) :: In classical Japanese, several fairly common words used the "kwa" represented by ku - smallwa. Kwaji/kaji, wagwashi/wagashi. ryoukwan/ryoukan, suikwa/suika, gwaikoku/gaikoku, gakkwai/gakkai... there are dozens of kwa and gwa listed in the Koujien Dictionary. Here's a link to a [http://fish.miracle.ne.jp/okuno/izumo/i_zuzu.htm Zuuzuu-ben] (Touhoku dialect) page. At the end is a list of ka/kwa words it has retained while the sound scheme simplified in the rest of the not-so-isolated and more recently colonised areas of Japan.
About the ya-line e (ye), [http://www.aurora.dti.ne.jp/~zom/Kyo-to/Shiryo-/eyeben.html this] website may be helpful, but only if you know enough Japanese. Otherwise, [http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/afaq/yeyi.html Jim Breen] has a decent albeit very brief explanation of what happened to the "missing" kana. Essentially, there was never a kana for ye in any real sense of the term (perhaps only a katakana e to substitute), but was most commonly represented phonetically by at least one kanji. Perhaps the sound fell out of disuse or its consideration as one sound changed before it was assigned kana. But there was never any ya-line i sound (yi as in above "Yinouye"). Yi and wu are some of the hardest sounds to represent in Japanese whereas ye, wi, and we and even kwa are pretty easy.
It may also be noteworthy that some popular, modern usages of the wi and we are technically incorrect, but as the sounds no longer exist in Japan, they often go by unnoticed. For example, Yebisu beer is rendered Webisu in katakana. This spelling is not historically accurate and it drives Japanese teachers in Japan absolutely mad at times. Sorry to ramble! --JH 28 Dec 2004 ::: Quick question: are you sure the wa in kwa was written small in the olden days? I'm sure it's written that way now when explaining about dialect differences and whatnot, but it's my understanding that before the reforms, small kana weren't really in use. For example, ''kyou'' was written with large ke and fu, though the fu was obviously just used to make a blended sound in later days. So, it wouldn't seem unusual to me to make a kwa sound using just the regular size when writing and not a special, smaller one. Or was "wa" just the one kana written small before the reforms? --User:Carlj7 06:38, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::: All the classical texts (for learners) that I've seen either use the small wa in left-to-right horizontal writing or else use the normal size wa in furigana in tate-gaki vertical writing. Perhaps this spelling convention is a modern revision. But if you look at classical tate-gaki furigana, nearly(?) all small kana are rendered in the normal size, as it seems they simply did not use small kana in furigana. This applies to ya-line kana (sho is rendered shi-yo, chou is rendered chi-yo-u). Perhaps this indicates elision of previously distinct syllables, or otherwise the innovation of small kana was not well developed/standardised at that point. But as long as the ku+wa=kwa, modern spelling conventions make the realisation of kwa more readily intelligible for the casual reader. I understand my place as an anon editor and as an amateur, and if you'd like to revert back to the big wa, I won't get bent out of shape in the least. --JH 28 Dec 2004 == table of kana == {| style="text-align:center; border-collapse:collapse" |+Table of the Japanese kana |- |あア||かカ||さサ||たタ||なナ||はハ||まマ||やヤ||らラ||わワ||んン |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black;" |a||ka||sa||ta||na||ha||ma||ya||ra||wa||n |- |いイ||きキ||しシ||ちチ||にニ||ひヒ||みミ|| ||りリ||ゐヰ |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black" |i||ki||shi||ti||ni||hi||mi|| ||ri||(wi) |- |うウ||くク||すス||つツ||ぬヌ||ふフ||むム||ゆユ||るル |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black" |u||ku||su||tsu||nu||fu||mu||yu||ru |- |えエ||けケ||せセ||てテ||ねネ||へヘ||めメ|| ||れレ||ゑヱ |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black" |e||ke||se||te||ne||he||me|| ||re||(we) |- |おオ||こコ||そソ||とト||のノ||ほホ||もモ||よヨ||ろロ||をヲ |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black" |o||ko||so||to||no||ho||mo||yo||ro||(w)o |} Hmm I see Quadell has already replaced the image with this table. Perhaps it would be good to make a screen shot for those who's computers don't have japanese fonts. : Why there are no extended characters such as ''da'', ''za'', ''pa'' etc. which are present in Hiragana and Katakana articles? User:DmitryKo 11:03, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Old Spelling question == ''どじょう dojō (loach, a sardine-like fish), which often show the word in its historical spelling of どぜおう dozeō on their sign'' - if I understand correctly, shouldn't that be どぜう, ''dozeu''? ''eu'' became ''jō'', but I don't think ''eo'' changed to anything. And even if it had, there'd be a "missing" mora there. == Request == Please post more info/resources about modern kana - links to learning resources, examples of use etc. 90% of the article is sacrificed to historical kana and its comparisons to modern kana. :Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a how-to site. There's not really much more to be said about modern kana besides, "look at the table; memorize the characters; congratulations, you know the Japanese 'alphabet!' " We can't be expect to have a break down of the stroke order and mnemonic devices for each character in an encyclopedia, so the article naturally ended up being mostly history. I don't think that's necessarily bad. Then again, if someone wanted to write a guide to learning kana, I think Wikisource would be a good place to host it. --User:Carlj7 15:38, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::A project like this already exists. See [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Japanese Wikibooks Japanese] --User:ChrisRuvolo (User talk:ChrisRuvolo) 20:17, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Kana is the general term for syllabary used to write the Japanese language. Japanese language Syllabary writing systems
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See other meanings of words starting from letter:
Words begining with Kana:
Kana
Kana
Kana
Kana
Kana'ti
Kana-Kanji_conversion_system
Kanaal_Twee
Kanab,_UT
Kanab,_Utah
Kanabec
Kanabec_County
Kanabec_County,_Minnesota
Kanabec_County,_Minnesota
Kanabec_County,_Minnesota
Kanabec_County,_MN
Kanabec_Township,_Minnesota
Kanabec_Township,_MN
Kanada
Kanada,_Fukuoka
Kanadawa
Kanadawa,_Isikawa
Kanada_(disambiguation)
Kanadiankai
Kanadier
Kanadier
Kanae
Kanaf
Kanagawa
Kanagawa
Kanagawa,_Japan
Kanagawa-ken
Kanagawa_Incident
Kanagawa_Prefecture
Kanagawa_Prefecture
Kanagawa_Prefecture
Kanagawa_prefecture
Kanagawa_prefecture
Kanagawa_Treaty
Kanagawa_University_student
Kanagi,_Aomori
Kanagi,_Shimane
Kanaiyazhi
Kanai_Mika
Kanaka
Kanakanak,_AK
Kanakanak,_Alaska
Kanakas
Kanakawa
Kanaka_Dasa
Kanaka_Dasaru
Kanaka_maoli
Kanako_Yonekura
Kanaky
Kanaky.
Kanal
Kanal,_Slovenia
Kanal,_Zagreb
Kanaloa
Kanaloa_(botany)
Kanal_(movie)
Kanal_D
Kanal_Piastowski
Kanamara
Kanamekun
Kanami
Kanamori,_Hiroo
Kanan,_Miyagi
Kanan,_Osaka
Kananaskis
Kananaskis,_Alberta
Kananaskis_Country
Kananaskis_No._5,_Alberta
Kananaskis_Range
Kananga
Kanangra-Boyd_National_Park
Kananook_railway_station,_Melbourne
Kanapa
Kanapaha_Botanical_Gardens
Kanapu
Kanar
Kanara
Kanaranzi_Township,_Minnesota
Kanaranzi_Township,_MN
Kanarese
Kanaris
Kanariya
Kanarraville
Kanarraville,_UT
Kanarraville,_Utah
Kanasagou,_Ibaraki
Kanash
Kanasyy
Kanata
Kanata,_ON
Kanata,_Ontario
Kanatjan_Alibekov
Kanauj
Kanauji
Kanauji_language
Kanauri
Kanauri_language
Kanawao
Kanawha
Kanawha,_IA
Kanawha,_Iowa
Kanawha_Canal
Kanawha_class_fleet_replenishment_oiler
Kanawha_County
Kanawha_County,_West_Virginia
Kanawha_County,_West_Virginia
Kanawha_County,_West_Virginia
Kanawha_County,_WV
Kanawha_River
Kanaya,_Shizuoka
Kanaya,_Wakayama
Kanayama_Station
Kanayi
Kanaz
Kanazawa
Kanazawa,_Ishikawa
Kanazawa,_Ishikawa
Kanazawa,_Isikawa
Kanazawa-ku,_Yokohama
Kanazawa_Castle
Kanazawa_Sanetoki
Kanazumi_City
Kanazumi_Shiti
Kana_(disambiguation)
Kana_(rapper)
Kana_-_Little_Sister
Kana_Imauto
Kana_Imoto
Kana_Imouto
Kana_Ueda
Kana
Kana
My summary was mistaken: the chart came from hiragana, not katakana. User:Gwalla — User:Gwalla | User talk:Gwalla 23:25, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC) Previous discussion of the merge of "Historical kana usage": Talk:Historical kana usage User:Gwalla — User:Gwalla | User talk:Gwalla 23:29, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC) == Discrepancy? == Was always taught that "Wi" and "We" really sound like "Yi" and "Ye" -- and I recall charts where these letters occur in the "ya" column. Can anyone confirm this? no one spells the old name of tokyo "wedo" and "yido" sounds more like the way really old folks pronounce the word for water well. :Yes, I thought so too. As examples there are ヱビス and ヱン, typically romanized as Yebisu and Yen. :According to a Japanese Wikipedia article [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%AE%9A%E5%AE%B6%E4%BB%AE%E5%90%8D%E9%81%A3], the wi, we characters changed pronunciation to i, ye sometime during the 10-11th centuries (wi was never yi). Later, ye became e. In any case, the romanization should be in synch with how it's done in the hepburn page. ::Basically, we and e were the same, both pronounced ye. == Names? == I'm not sure some of these historical kana names are actually historically spelled using the kana. In particular, Inouye should be "Yinouye" if it were faithful to the "historical" spelling; "Inouye" in that orthography appears only in the United States and is due to simplification of transliteration. "Iwo" also seems to be that way. There is also no "kw" kana in "historical" japanese. : That's only partially correct about "kw." There was no one kana for "kw." However, it was common (especially in Kyoto) to pronounce words with a "kw" and spell them with a ku - wa. Check Oku no Hosomichi, I recall seeing some in there. Of course, back in the olden days, they never made kana smaller, but it's essentially the same as the modern katakana ku - xa. Anyhow, even in Kyoto, the pronunciations had all shifted over to ka by the time spelling reform came, so the wa's were dropped and never seen again. --User:Carlj7 04:00, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC) :: In classical Japanese, several fairly common words used the "kwa" represented by ku - smallwa. Kwaji/kaji, wagwashi/wagashi. ryoukwan/ryoukan, suikwa/suika, gwaikoku/gaikoku, gakkwai/gakkai... there are dozens of kwa and gwa listed in the Koujien Dictionary. Here's a link to a [http://fish.miracle.ne.jp/okuno/izumo/i_zuzu.htm Zuuzuu-ben] (Touhoku dialect) page. At the end is a list of ka/kwa words it has retained while the sound scheme simplified in the rest of the not-so-isolated and more recently colonised areas of Japan.
About the ya-line e (ye), [http://www.aurora.dti.ne.jp/~zom/Kyo-to/Shiryo-/eyeben.html this] website may be helpful, but only if you know enough Japanese. Otherwise, [http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/afaq/yeyi.html Jim Breen] has a decent albeit very brief explanation of what happened to the "missing" kana. Essentially, there was never a kana for ye in any real sense of the term (perhaps only a katakana e to substitute), but was most commonly represented phonetically by at least one kanji. Perhaps the sound fell out of disuse or its consideration as one sound changed before it was assigned kana. But there was never any ya-line i sound (yi as in above "Yinouye"). Yi and wu are some of the hardest sounds to represent in Japanese whereas ye, wi, and we and even kwa are pretty easy.
It may also be noteworthy that some popular, modern usages of the wi and we are technically incorrect, but as the sounds no longer exist in Japan, they often go by unnoticed. For example, Yebisu beer is rendered Webisu in katakana. This spelling is not historically accurate and it drives Japanese teachers in Japan absolutely mad at times. Sorry to ramble! --JH 28 Dec 2004 ::: Quick question: are you sure the wa in kwa was written small in the olden days? I'm sure it's written that way now when explaining about dialect differences and whatnot, but it's my understanding that before the reforms, small kana weren't really in use. For example, ''kyou'' was written with large ke and fu, though the fu was obviously just used to make a blended sound in later days. So, it wouldn't seem unusual to me to make a kwa sound using just the regular size when writing and not a special, smaller one. Or was "wa" just the one kana written small before the reforms? --User:Carlj7 06:38, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::: All the classical texts (for learners) that I've seen either use the small wa in left-to-right horizontal writing or else use the normal size wa in furigana in tate-gaki vertical writing. Perhaps this spelling convention is a modern revision. But if you look at classical tate-gaki furigana, nearly(?) all small kana are rendered in the normal size, as it seems they simply did not use small kana in furigana. This applies to ya-line kana (sho is rendered shi-yo, chou is rendered chi-yo-u). Perhaps this indicates elision of previously distinct syllables, or otherwise the innovation of small kana was not well developed/standardised at that point. But as long as the ku+wa=kwa, modern spelling conventions make the realisation of kwa more readily intelligible for the casual reader. I understand my place as an anon editor and as an amateur, and if you'd like to revert back to the big wa, I won't get bent out of shape in the least. --JH 28 Dec 2004 == table of kana == {| style="text-align:center; border-collapse:collapse" |+Table of the Japanese kana |- |あア||かカ||さサ||たタ||なナ||はハ||まマ||やヤ||らラ||わワ||んン |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black;" |a||ka||sa||ta||na||ha||ma||ya||ra||wa||n |- |いイ||きキ||しシ||ちチ||にニ||ひヒ||みミ|| ||りリ||ゐヰ |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black" |i||ki||shi||ti||ni||hi||mi|| ||ri||(wi) |- |うウ||くク||すス||つツ||ぬヌ||ふフ||むム||ゆユ||るル |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black" |u||ku||su||tsu||nu||fu||mu||yu||ru |- |えエ||けケ||せセ||てテ||ねネ||へヘ||めメ|| ||れレ||ゑヱ |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black" |e||ke||se||te||ne||he||me|| ||re||(we) |- |おオ||こコ||そソ||とト||のノ||ほホ||もモ||よヨ||ろロ||をヲ |- style="color:red; border-bottom:thin solid black" |o||ko||so||to||no||ho||mo||yo||ro||(w)o |} Hmm I see Quadell has already replaced the image with this table. Perhaps it would be good to make a screen shot for those who's computers don't have japanese fonts. : Why there are no extended characters such as ''da'', ''za'', ''pa'' etc. which are present in Hiragana and Katakana articles? User:DmitryKo 11:03, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Old Spelling question == ''どじょう dojō (loach, a sardine-like fish), which often show the word in its historical spelling of どぜおう dozeō on their sign'' - if I understand correctly, shouldn't that be どぜう, ''dozeu''? ''eu'' became ''jō'', but I don't think ''eo'' changed to anything. And even if it had, there'd be a "missing" mora there. == Request == Please post more info/resources about modern kana - links to learning resources, examples of use etc. 90% of the article is sacrificed to historical kana and its comparisons to modern kana. :Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a how-to site. There's not really much more to be said about modern kana besides, "look at the table; memorize the characters; congratulations, you know the Japanese 'alphabet!' " We can't be expect to have a break down of the stroke order and mnemonic devices for each character in an encyclopedia, so the article naturally ended up being mostly history. I don't think that's necessarily bad. Then again, if someone wanted to write a guide to learning kana, I think Wikisource would be a good place to host it. --User:Carlj7 15:38, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::A project like this already exists. See [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Japanese Wikibooks Japanese] --User:ChrisRuvolo (User talk:ChrisRuvolo) 20:17, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Kana
Kana is the general term for syllabary used to write the Japanese language. Japanese language Syllabary writing systems
Kana
Hi! Wikipedia:Introduction to Wikipedia! Hope you enjoy contributing to Wikipedia. Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages. Here are some links that you might find useful: * Try the Wikipedia:Tutorial. If you have less time, try Wikipedia:How to edit a page. * To sign your posts (on Wikipedia:Tutorial (Talk pages), Votes for deletion page etc.) use
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
K
KA | KB | KC | KD | KE | KF | KG | KH | KI | KJ | KL | KM | KN | KO | KP | KR | KS | KT | KU | KW | KX | KY | KZ |Words begining with Kana:
Kana
Kana
Kana
Kana
Kana'ti
Kana-Kanji_conversion_system
Kanaal_Twee
Kanab,_UT
Kanab,_Utah
Kanabec
Kanabec_County
Kanabec_County,_Minnesota
Kanabec_County,_Minnesota
Kanabec_County,_Minnesota
Kanabec_County,_MN
Kanabec_Township,_Minnesota
Kanabec_Township,_MN
Kanada
Kanada,_Fukuoka
Kanadawa
Kanadawa,_Isikawa
Kanada_(disambiguation)
Kanadiankai
Kanadier
Kanadier
Kanae
Kanaf
Kanagawa
Kanagawa
Kanagawa,_Japan
Kanagawa-ken
Kanagawa_Incident
Kanagawa_Prefecture
Kanagawa_Prefecture
Kanagawa_Prefecture
Kanagawa_prefecture
Kanagawa_prefecture
Kanagawa_Treaty
Kanagawa_University_student
Kanagi,_Aomori
Kanagi,_Shimane
Kanaiyazhi
Kanai_Mika
Kanaka
Kanakanak,_AK
Kanakanak,_Alaska
Kanakas
Kanakawa
Kanaka_Dasa
Kanaka_Dasaru
Kanaka_maoli
Kanako_Yonekura
Kanaky
Kanaky.
Kanal
Kanal,_Slovenia
Kanal,_Zagreb
Kanaloa
Kanaloa_(botany)
Kanal_(movie)
Kanal_D
Kanal_Piastowski
Kanamara
Kanamekun
Kanami
Kanamori,_Hiroo
Kanan,_Miyagi
Kanan,_Osaka
Kananaskis
Kananaskis,_Alberta
Kananaskis_Country
Kananaskis_No._5,_Alberta
Kananaskis_Range
Kananga
Kanangra-Boyd_National_Park
Kananook_railway_station,_Melbourne
Kanapa
Kanapaha_Botanical_Gardens
Kanapu
Kanar
Kanara
Kanaranzi_Township,_Minnesota
Kanaranzi_Township,_MN
Kanarese
Kanaris
Kanariya
Kanarraville
Kanarraville,_UT
Kanarraville,_Utah
Kanasagou,_Ibaraki
Kanash
Kanasyy
Kanata
Kanata,_ON
Kanata,_Ontario
Kanatjan_Alibekov
Kanauj
Kanauji
Kanauji_language
Kanauri
Kanauri_language
Kanawao
Kanawha
Kanawha,_IA
Kanawha,_Iowa
Kanawha_Canal
Kanawha_class_fleet_replenishment_oiler
Kanawha_County
Kanawha_County,_West_Virginia
Kanawha_County,_West_Virginia
Kanawha_County,_West_Virginia
Kanawha_County,_WV
Kanawha_River
Kanaya,_Shizuoka
Kanaya,_Wakayama
Kanayama_Station
Kanayi
Kanaz
Kanazawa
Kanazawa,_Ishikawa
Kanazawa,_Ishikawa
Kanazawa,_Isikawa
Kanazawa-ku,_Yokohama
Kanazawa_Castle
Kanazawa_Sanetoki
Kanazumi_City
Kanazumi_Shiti
Kana_(disambiguation)
Kana_(rapper)
Kana_-_Little_Sister
Kana_Imauto
Kana_Imoto
Kana_Imouto
Kana_Ueda
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