Jew - meaning of word
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Jew



The word ''Jew'' (Hebrew language: יהודי) is used in a wide number of ways, but generally refers to a follower of the Jewish faith, a child of a Jewish mother, or someone of Jewish descent with a connection to Jewish culture or ethnicity and often a combination of these attributes. This article discusses the term as describing an ethnic group; for a consideration of the religion, please refer to Judaism. Most Jews regard themselves as a people, members of a nation, descended from the ancient Israelites and those who joined their religion at various times and places. The term ''Jew'' came into being when the Kingdom of Israel was split between the northern Kingdom of Israel and the southern Kingdom of Judah. Hence, the Israelites (who were later largely destroyed by the Assyrians) were those of the northern kingdom and the Jews (who survived) were those of the southern kingdom. Over time, the word ''Jew'' has come to refer to those of the Jewish faith rather than those from Judah. In modern usage, Jews include both those Jews actively practicing Judaism, and those Jews who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jews by virtue of their family's Jewish heritage and their own cultural identification. ''Usage note: The word "Jew" is a noun. Its use as an adjective (e.g. "Jew lawyer") is widely considered offensive; "Jewish" is strongly preferred. Its use as a verb (e.g. "to jew someone") is also considered offensive. Some sources, such as the American Heritage Dictionary, suggest that phrases like "Jewish person" may be offensive if pointedly used to avoid the word "Jew".'' ==Etymology== :''Main article: Etymology of the word Jew'' There are different views as to the origin of the English language word ''Jew''. The most common view is that the Middle English word ''Jew'' is from the Old French ''giu'', earlier ''juieu'', from the Latin ''iudeus'' from the Greek ''Ioudaios'' (Ιουδαίος). The Latin simply means ''Judaean'', from the land of ''Judea''. The Hebrew for Jew, יהודי , is pronounced ye-hoo-DEE. The Hebrew letter Yud (or Yod), י, becomes a 'j' in languages using the Latin-based alphabet when the Yud is used as a consonant rather than as a vowel. ==Who is a Jew?== :''Main article: Who is a Jew?'' Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation, an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture, making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used. For discussions of the religious views on who is a Jew and how these views differ from each other, please see Who is a Jew?. Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who practice Judaism and have a Jewish ethnic background (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), people without Jewish parents who have converted to Judaism; and those Jews who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jews by virtue of their family's Jewish descent and their own cultural and historical identification with the Jewish people. ==Jewish culture== :''Main articles: Secular Jewish culture, Judaism'' Judaism guides its adherents in both practice and belief, and has been called not only a religion, but also a "way of life," which has made the job of drawing a clear distinction between Judaism, Jewish culture, and Jewish nationality rather difficult. In many times and places, such as in the ancient Hellenic world, in Europe before and after the Enlightenment (see haskalah), and in contemporary United States and Israel, cultural phenomena have developed that are in some sense characteristically Jewish without being at all specifically religious. Some factors in this come from within Judaism, others from the interaction of Jews with others around them, others from the inner social and cultural dynamics of the community, as opposed to religion itself. ==Ethnic divisions== :''Main article: Jewish ethnic divisions'' The most commonly used terms to describe ethnic divisions among Jews presently are: ''Ashkenazi'' (meaning "Germany" in Hebrew, denoting the Central European base of Jewry); and ''Sephardi'' (meaning "Spain" or "Iberia" in Hebrew, denoting their Spanish, Portuguese and North African location). They refer to both religious and ethnic divisions. Other Jewish ethnic groups include Mizrahi Jews (a term overlapping ''Sephardi'', but emphasizing North African and Middle Eastern rather than Spanish history, and including the Maghrebim); Teimanim (Yemenite and Omani Jews); and such smaller groups as the Gruzim and Juhurim from the Caucasus, the Bene Israel, Bnei Menashe, Cochin Jews and Telugu Jews Jews in India, the Romaniotes of Greece, the Italkim (Bené Roma) of Italy, various African Jews (most notably the Beta Israel or Ethiopian Jews), and the Bukharan Jews of Central Asia. Some Jewish communities have lost religious culture or have assimilated, such as the Kaifeng Jews of China. ==Population== :''Main article: Jewish population'' Prior to World War II the world population of Jews was approximately 18 million. The Holocaust reduced this number to approximately 12 million. Today, there are an estimated 13 million #Footnotes to 14.6 million#Footnotes Jews worldwide in over 134 countries. ===Significant geographic populations=== :''Main article: Jews by country'' Please note that these populations represent low-end estimates of the worldwide Jewish population. Higher estimates place the worldwide Jewish population at over 14.5 million. {| border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" align="center" |- ! style="background:#efefef;" | Country !! style="background:#efefef;" | Jewish population |- | United States |5,671,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |Israel | 5,200,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |Europe | Fewer than 2 million (est.) |- |•  France |600,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |•  United Kingdom |267,000 (2001 census) |- |•  Germany |100,000 (2004 est.) or 60,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |•  Italy |30,000 (Jewish communities est.) |- |•  The Former Soviet Union |400,000 (some estimates much higher) #Footnotes |- |Canada | 371,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |Argentina | 250,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |Brazil | 130,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |Australia | 100,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |South Africa | 106,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |Mexico | 40,700 (est.) #Footnotes |- |Asia (excluding Israel) | 50,000 (est.) |-, |•  Iran |11,000 (est.) #Footnotes |- |- | Total | 13,900,000 (est.) |} ===State of Israel=== :''Main article: Israel'' [[Image: Declaration of State of Israel 1948.jpg|left|frame|David Ben Gurion (First Prime Minister of Israel) publicly pronouncing the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, May 14, 1948 (He is between the two banners)]] Israel, the Jewish nation-state, is the only country in which Jews make up a majority of the citizens, although the United States has a larger number of Jews. It was established as an independent democratic state on May 14, 1948. Of the 120 members in its parliament, the Knesset, about ten members are Israeli Arabs who are not Jews. At the time of its independence, approximately 600,000 Jews lived there. Since then, its Jewish population has increased by about one million over each decade as more immigrants arrive, and more Israelis are born, in one of the most significant global Jewish population shifts in over 2,000 years. All the Arab Israeli Wars have not slowed Israel's growth. Israel opened its doors to the the Holocaust survivors. It has absorbed a majority of the Sephardic Jews and Mizrahi Jews from the Islam countries. It has taken in hundreds of thousands of Jews from the former Soviet Union, and has [http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/ejhist.html#operation1/ airlifted tens of thousands of Ethiopian Jews] to Israel. In the past decade nearly a million immigrants came to Israel from the former Soviet Union. Many Jews who emigrated to Israel have moved elsewhere, known as yerida ("descent" [from the Holy Land]), due to its economic problems or due to disillusionment with political conditions and the continuing Israeli-Palestinian conflict ===Diaspora (outside of Israel)=== :''Main article: Jewish diaspora'' The waves of immigration to the United States at the turn of the 19th century, massacre of European Jewry during the Holocaust, and the foundation of the state of Israel (and subsequent Jewish exodus from Arab lands) all resulted in substantial shifts in the population centers of world Jewry during the 20th century. Currently, the largest Jewish community in the world is located in the United States, with around 5.6 million Jews. Elsewhere in the Americas, there are also large Jewish populations in Canada and Argentina, and smaller populations in Brazil, Mexico , Uruguay, Venezuela, Chile, and several other countries (see History of the Jews in Latin America). Western Europe's largest Jewish community can be found in France, home to 600,000 Jews, the majority of whom are immigrants or refugees from North African Arab countries such as Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia (or their descendants). There are over 265,000 Jews in the United Kingdom. In East Europe, there are anywhere from 500,000 to over two million Jews living in Russia, Ukraine, Hungary, Belarus and the other areas once dominated by the Soviet Union, but exact figures are difficult to establish. The fastest-growing Jewish community in the world, outside of Israel, is the one in Germany, especially in Berlin, its capital. Tens of thousands of Jews from the former Eastern Bloc have settled in Germany since the fall of the Berlin Wall. The Arab countries of North Africa and the Middle East were home to around 900,000 Jews in 1945. Systematic persecution after the founding of Israel caused almost all of these Jews to flee to Israel, North America, and Europe in the 1950s. Today, around 8,000 Jews remain in Arab nations. Iran is home to around 25,000 Jews, down from a population of 100,000 Jews before the 1979 revolution. After the revolution some of the Iranian Jews emigrated to Israel or Europe but most of them emigrated (with their non-Jewish Iranian compatriots) to the United States (especially Los Angeles). Outside of Europe, Asia and the Americas, significant Jewish populations exist in Australia and South Africa. ===Population changes: Wars against the Jews=== Throughout history, many rulers, empires and nations have oppressed their Jewish populations, or sought to eliminate them entirely. Methods employed have ranged from expulsion to outright genocide; within nations, often the threat of these extreme methods was sufficient to silence dissent. Some examples in the history of anti-Semitism are: the Great Jewish Revolt against the Roman Empire as described by Josephus; the Spanish Inquisition led by Torquamada and the ''Auto de fe'' against the Marrano Jews; the Bohdan Chmielnicki Cossack massacres in Ukraine; the Pogroms backed by the Russian Tsars Alexander III of Russia and Nicholas II of Russia; Blood libels. The persecution culminated in Adolf Hitler's final solution which led to the Holocaust of the European Jewry. Modern wars such as the Arab-Israeli conflict have resulted in major loss of life. While Jewish communities throughout the Islamic world were often treated well by their Islam rulers, depending on the regime in power, Jewish communities in Spain, North Africa, and the Middle East were at times subject to persecutions, expulsions, and forced conversion. ===Population changes: Assimilation=== Since the Jewish Enlightenment (see Haskalah) of the 1700s and the subsequent emancipation of the Jewish populations of Europe and America in the 1800s, Jews have increasingly participated in, and become part of, secular society. The result has been a growing trend of assimilation, as Jews marry non-Jewish spouses and stop participating in the Jewish community. Rates of interreligious marriage vary widely: In the United States they are just under 50%[http://www.ujc.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=83910], in England around 50%, and in Australia and Mexico as low as 10%[http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/communities/world/asia-oceania/australia.cfm][http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Mexico.html], and in France they may be as high as 75%. In the United States, only about a third of children from intermarriages affiliate themselves with Jewish practice. Additionally, since non-religious Jews generally tend to marry later and have fewer children than the general population, the Jewish community in many countries is aging. The result is that most countries in the Diaspora have steady or slightly declining Jewish populations as Jews continue to assimilate into the countries in which they live. ===Population changes: Growth=== Israel is the only country with a consistently growing Jewish population due to natural population increase, though the Jewish populations of other countries in Europe and North America have recently increased due to immigration. In the Diaspora, in almost every country the Jewish population in general is either declining or steady, but Orthodox Judaism and Haredi Jewish communities, whose members often shun birth control for religious reasons, have experienced rapid population growth, with rates near 4% per year for Haredi Jews in Israel, and similar rates in other countires. Orthodox and Conservative Judaism forbid proselytization to non-Jews, but many Jewish groups have tried to reach out to the assimilated Jewish communities of the Diaspora in order to increase the number of Jews. Additionally, while in principle Reform Judaism favors seeking new members for the faith, this position has not translated into active proselytism, instead taking the form of an effort to reach out to non-Jewish spouses of intermarried couples. As a result of the efforts by these and other Jewish groups over the past twenty-five years, there has been a trend of secular Jews becoming more religiously observant, known as the ''Baal Teshuva'' movement, though the demographic implications of the trend are unknown. Additionally, there is also a growing movement of Jews by Choice by gentiles who make the decision to head in the direction of becoming Jews. ==Jewish languages== :''Main article: Jewish languages'' Hebrew language is the liturgical language of Judaism (termed ''lashon ha-kodesh'', "the holy tongue"), and is the language of the State of Israel. Diaspora Jews (outside of Israel) today speak the local languages of their respective countries. Yiddish language is the historic language of many Ashkenazi Jews, and Ladino language of many Sephardic Jews. ==History of the Jews== :''Main articles: Jewish history, Timeline of Jewish history'' :''See also: Schisms among the Jews'' ===Jews and migrations=== Throughout Jewish history, Jews have repeatedly been directly or indirectly expelled from both their original homeland, and the areas in which they have resided. This experience as both immigrate and Emigration (see: Jewish refugees) have shaped Jewish identity and religious practice in many ways. An incomplete list of such migrations includes: *The patriarch Abraham was a migrant to the land of Canaan from Ur of the Chaldea. *The Children of Israel experienced the Exodus (meaning "departure" or "going forth" in Greek) from ancient Egypt, as recorded in the Book of Exodus. *The Kingdom of Israel was sent into permanent exile and scattered all over the world by Assyria. *The Kingdom of Judah was exiled first by Babylonia and then by Roman Empire. *The 2,000 year dispersion of the Jewish diaspora beginning under the Roman Empire, as Jews were spread throughout the Roman world and, driven from land to land, and settled wherever they could live freely enough to practice their religion. *Many expulsions during the Middle Ages and Enlightenment in Europe, including: 1290, 16,000 Jews were expelled from England; in 1396, 100,000 from France; in 1421 thousands were expelled from Austria. Many of these Jews settled in Eastern Europe, especially Poland. *Forced migrations during the period of Almohades in Islamic Spain. *Following the Spanish Inquisition in 1492, the Spanish population of around 200,000 Sephardic Jews were expelled by the Spanish crown and Catholic church, followed by expulsions in 1493 in Sicily (37,000 Jews) and Portugal in 1496. The expelled Jews fled mainly to the Ottoman Empire, Holland, and North Africa, others migrating to South Europe and the Middle East. *During the 19th century, France's policies of equal citizenship regardless of religion led to the immigration of Jews (especially from Eastern and Central Europe), which was encouraged by Napoleon Bonaparte. *The arrival of millions of Jews in the New World, including immigration of over 1,000,000 Eastern European Jews to the United States from 1890-1925, see History of the Jews in the United States. *The Pogroms in Eastern Europe, the rise of modern Anti-Semitism, the Holocaust and the rise of Arab nationalism all served to fuel the movements and migrations of huge segments of Jewry from land to land and continent to continent, until they have now arrived back in large numbers at their original historical homeland in Israel. *The Iranian Revolution, forced many Persian Jews to flee Iran. Most found refuge in the US (particularly Los Angeles, CA) and Israel. Smaller communities of Persian Jews exist in Canada and Western Europe. ===Kingdoms of Israel and Judah=== :''See related article History of ancient Israel and Judah''. Jews descend mostly from the ancient Israelites (also known as Hebrews), who settled in the Land of Israel. The Israelites traced their common lineage to the Bible patriarch Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. A monarchy was established under Saul and continued under King David and Solomon. King David conquered Jerusalem (first a Canaanite, then a Jebusite town) and made it his capital. After Solomon's reign the nation split into two kingdoms, the Kingdom of Israel (in the north) and the Kingdom of Judah (in the south). The Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian ruler Shalmaneser V in the 8th century BC and spread all over the Assyrian empire, where they were assimilated into other cultures and become known as the Ten Lost Tribes. The Kingdom of Judah continued as an independent state until it was conquered by a Babylonian army in the early 6th century BC, destroying the First Temple that was at the centre of Jewish worship. The Judean elite was exiled to Babylonia, but later at least a part of them returned to their homeland after the subsequent conquest of Babylonia by the Persians seventy years later, a period known as the Babylonian Captivity. A new Second Temple was constructed, and old religious practices were resumed. ===Persian, Greek, and Roman rule=== :''See related article Jewish-Roman wars''. The Seleucid Kingdom, which arose after the Persians were defeated by Alexander the Great, sought to introduce Greek culture into the Persian world. When the Seleucid king Antiochus IV Epiphanes, supported by Hellenism Jews (those who had adopted Greek culture), attempted to convert the Jewish Temple to a temple of Zeus, the non-Hellenized Jews revolted under the leadership of the Maccabees and rededicated the Temple to the Jewish God (hence the origins of ''Hanukkah'') and created an independent Jewish kingdom known as the Hasmonaean Kingdom which lasted from 165 BC to 63 BC, when the kingdom came under influence of the Roman Empire. During the early part of Roman rule, the Hasmonaeans remained in power, until the family was annihilated by Herod the Great. Herod came from a wealthy Edom family and became a very successful client-king under the Romans. He significantly expanded the Temple in Jerusalem. Upon his death in 4 BC the Romans directly ruled Judea and there were frequent changes of policies by conflicting and empire-building Caesars, generals, governors, and consuls who often acted cruelly or to maximize their own wealth and power. Rome's attitudes swung from tolerance to hostility against its Jewish subjects, who had since moved throughout the Empire. The Romans, worshipping a Roman religion, could not readily accommodate the exclusive monotheism of Judaism, and the religious Jews could not accept Roman polytheism. After a famine and riots in 66, the Judeans began to revolt against their Roman rulers. The revolt was smashed by the Roman emperor Vespasian and Titus Flavius. In Rome the Arch of Titus still stands, depicting the enslaved Judeans and a ''menorah'' being brought to Rome (''illustration, right''). [[Image:Sack of jerusalem.JPG|thumb|In Rome the Arch of Titus of Titus still stands, depicting the enslaved Judeans and objects from the Temple being brought to Rome.]] The Romans all but destroyed Jerusalem; only a single "Western Wall" of the Second Temple remained. After the end of this first revolt, the Judeans continued to live in their land in significant numbers, and were allowed to practice their religion. In the second century the Roman Emperor Hadrian began to rebuilt Jerusalem as a pagan city while restricting some Jewish practices. Angry at this affront, the Judeans again revolted led by Bar Kokhba's revolt. Hadrian responded with overwhelming force, putting down the revolution and killing as many as half a million Jews. After the Roman Legions prevailed in 135, Jews were not allowed to enter the city of Jerusalem and most Jewish worship was forbidden by Rome. Following the destruction of Jerusalem and the expulsion of the Jews, Jewish worship stopped being centrally organized around the Temple, and instead was rebuilt around rabbis who acted as teachers and leaders of individual communities. No new books were added to the Jewish Bible after the Roman period, instead major efforts went into interpreting and developing the Halakhah, or oral law, and writing down these traditions in the Talmud, the key work on the interepretation of Jewish law, written during the first to fifth centuries CE. ===Beginning of the Diaspora=== Though Jews had settled outside of Israel since the time of the Babylonians, the results of the Roman response to the Jewish revolt shifted the center of Jewish life from its ancient home to the diaspora. While some Jews remained in Judea, renamed Palestine by the Romans, some Jews were sold into slavery, while others became citizens of other parts of the Roman Empire. This is the traditional explanation to the diaspora, almost universally accepted by past and present rabbinical or Talmudical scholars, who believe that Jews are almost exclusively biological descendants of the Judean exiles, a belief backed up at least partially by DNA evidence. Some secular historians speculate that a majority of the Jews in Antiquity were most likely descendants of converts in the cities of the Graeco-Roman world, especially in Alexandria and Asia Minor. They were only affected by the diaspora in its spiritual sense and by the sense of loss and homelessness which became a cornerstone of the Jewish creed, much supported by persecutions in various parts of the world. Any such policy of conversion, which spread the Jewish religion throughout Hellenistic civilization, seems to have ended with the wars against the Romans and the following reconstruction of Jewish values for the post-Temple era. During the first few hundred years of the Diaspora, the most important Jewish communities were in Babylonia, where the Talmud was written, and where relatively tolerant regimes allowed the Jews freedom. The situation was worse in the Byzantine Empire which treated the Jews much more harshly, refusing to allow them to hold office or build places of worship. The conquest of much of the Byzantine Empire and Babylonia by the armies of the newly emerged Islam generally improved the life of the Jews, though they were still considered second-class citizens. In response to these Islamic conquests, the First Crusade of 1096 attempted to reconquer Jerusalem, resulting in the destruction of many of the remaining Jewish communities in the area. ===Middle Ages: Europe=== :''Main article: Jews in the Middle Ages'' Jews settled in Europe during the time of the Roman Empire, but the rise of the Catholic Church, resulted in frequent expulsions and persecutions. The Crusades routinely attacked Jewish communities, and increasingly harsh laws restricted them from most economic activity and land ownership, leaving open only moneylending and a few other trades. Jews were subject to explusions from England, France, and the Holy Roman Empire throughout the Middle Ages, with most of the population moving to Eastern Europe and Poland. The final expulsion of the Jews, and the largest, occurred after the Christian conquest of Spain in 1492. Even after the end of the expulsions in the 17th century, individual conditions varied from country to country and time to time, but, as rule, Jews generally were forced, by decree or by informal pressure, to live in highly segregated ghettos and villages. ===Middle Ages: Islamic Europe and North Africa=== :''Main article: Islam and Judaism'' During the Middle Ages, Jews in Islamic lands generally had more rights than under Christian rule, with a Golden Age of coexistence in Islamic Spain from about 900 to 1200, when Spain became the center of the richest, most populous, and most influential Jewish community of the time. The rise of more radical regimes, such as that of the Almohades, and the continuing Christian reconquest ended this period, however. ===Renaissance and Enlightenment=== :''Main article: Haskalah'' During the Age of Enlightenment, significant changes occurred within the Jewish community. The Haskalah movement paralleled the wider Enlightenment, as Jews began in the 1700s to campaign for emancipation from restrictive laws and integration into the wider European society. Secular and scientific education was added to the traditional religious instruction received by students, and interest in a national Jewish identity, including a revival in the study of Jewish history and Hebrew, started to grow. The Haskalah movement influenced the birth of all the modern Jewish denominations, and planted the seeds of Zionism. At the same time, it contributed to encouraging cultural assimilation into the countries in which Jews resided. At around the same time another movement was born, one preaching almost the opposite of Haskalah, Hasidic Judaism. Hasidic Judiasm began in the 1700s by Israel ben Eliezer, the Baal Shem Tov, and quickly gained a following with its exuberant, mystical approach to religion. These two movements, and the traditional orthodox approach to Judaism from which they spring, formed the basis for the modern divisions within Jewish observance. At the same time, the outside world was changing. Though persecution still existed in some European countries (hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed in pogroms in the 18th and 19th centuries), Napoleon invited Jews to leave the Ghetto#Jewish ghettos in Europe and seek refuge in the newly created tolerant political regimes that offered equality under Napoleonic Law (see Napoleon and the Jews). ===Modern times=== During the late 19th century, Jews began to flee the persecutions of Eastern Europe in large numbers, mostly by heading to the United States. By 1924, almost two million Jews had emigrated to the US, creating a large community in a nation relatively free of the persecutions of rising European anti-Semitism (see History of the Jews in the United States). This anti-Semitism reached its most virulent form in the killing of approximately six million Jews during the Holocaust, almost completely obliterating the two-thousand year history of the Jews in Europe. In 1948, the Jewish state of Israel was founded, creating the first Jewish nation since the Roman destruction of Jerusalem. Also significant were the subsequent wars between Israel and its Arab neighbors, and the flight in the face of persecution of almost all of the 900,000 Jews previously living in Arab countries. By the end of the 20th century, Jewish population centers had shifted dramatically, with the United States and Israel being the centers of Jewish secular and religious life. ==Persecution== :''Main article: Persecution of the Jews'' :''Related articles: Anti-Semitism, History of anti-Semitism, Modern anti-Semitism'' ==Jewish leadership== :''Main article: Jewish leadership'' There is no single governing body for the Jewish community, nor a single authority with responsibility for religious doctrine. Instead, a variety of secular and religious institutions at the local, national, and international levels lead various parts of the Jewish community on a variety of issues. ==Famous Jews== :''Main articles: List of Jews, List of Jews by country'' Jews have made contributions in a broad range of human endeavors, including the sciences, art, politics, etc. Some of these count being Jewish as an essential part of their identity; others view it as an incidental part of their background. ==See also== A full guide to topics related to the Jews is available from the template:Jew. Additional topics of interest include: * Judaism, for information on the Jewish religion * Europe ** History of the Jews in Poland ** History of the Jews in Russia and Soviet Union ** History of the Jews in France ** History of the Jews in Germany ** History of the Jews in England ** History of the Jews in Italy *America ** History of the Jews in the United States and Jewish American ** History of the Jews in Latin America *Western Asia and North Africa ** History of the Jews in Muslim Lands (including Turkey and Spain) ** History of the Jews in Tunisia ** History of the Jews in Algeria ** History of the Jews in Morocco ** History of the Jews in Egypt ==External links== ===Photos=== *[http://www.ZionOzeri.com Zion Ozeri's site]. This Macromedia Flash-intensive site of photographer Zion Ozeri contains photos of a wide variety of Jewish communities around the world. *[http://www.pbase.com/yalop/sigd Photos of Ethiopian Jews] ===General=== *[http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761567959/Jews.html#s1 Encarta Encyclopedia entry on Jews] *[http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ Jewish Virtual Library]. A collection of many articles on many topics, including Jewish history. *[http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia] *[http://www.jta.org/ Jewish Telegraphic Agency]. News bureau reporting on contemporary Jewish news and issues. ===Major Jewish secular organizations=== *[http://www.adl.org/adl.asp Anti-Defamation League] *[http://www.bnaibrith.org/ B'nai B'rith International]. *[http://www.ajc.org/ American Jewish Committee] *[http://www.ujc.org/ United Jewish Communities: The Federations of North America] *[http://www.ajcongress.org/ American Jewish Congress] *[http://www.science.co.il/JSO.asp Jewish Student Organizations] ===Global Jewish communities=== *[http://www.haruth.com/JewsoftheWorld.html Jewish Communities of the World]. An exhaustive list of Jewish communities in many countries. *[http://www.ujc.org/ir_category_listing.html?nt=0&id=200 List of international Jewish organizations]. *[http://uk-org-bod.supplehost.org/bod/index.jsp Board of Deputies of British Jews] *[http://www.cjc.ca Canadian Jewish Congress]. Jewish advocacy organisation representing Canadian Jewry. *[http://www.fjc.ru/default.asp Federation of Jewish Communities of the CIS (Russia)] *[http://www.col.fr/ Communaute Online: France] *[http://www.haruth.com/JewsArgentina.html Jewish Argentina] *[http://www.mindspring.com/~jaypsand/index.htm African Jews]. Also contains information about various small Jewish communities elsewhere. *[http://chinese-school.netfirms.com/Jews.html Chinese Jews] History of Jews in China ===Zionist institutions=== *[http://www.wzo.org.il/en/default.asp World Zionist Organization] *[http://www.zoa.org/ Zionist Organization of America] *[http://www.hadassah.org Hadassah]. Women's Zionist Organization, also operates a number of prominent hospitals. *[http://www.habonimdror.org Habonim Dror]. Union of Progressive Zionists. ===Israeli institutions=== *[http://www.jafi.org.il/ The Jewish Agency] *[http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/ Yad VaShem]. The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority. *[http://www.imj.org.il/ Israel Museum] ===Lists of Jews=== *[http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp Jewish Nobel Prize Laureates] *[http://www.jinfo.org/ Prominent Jewish Scientific and Cultural Figures] ===Religious Links=== ''For more links about Judaism and Jewish religious organizations please see: Judaism#External links * Orthodox: [http://ou.org/ The Orthodox Union] * Conservative: [http://www.uscj.org/ United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism] * Karaite:[http://www.karaite-korner.org/ The Karaite Korner] * Reform: [http://urj.org/ Union for Reform Judaism] * Reconstructionist: [http://www.jrf.org/ Jewish Reconstructionist Federation] ==Notes== :1 1993 Russian census. Some estimates are much higher, the US State Department Religious Freedom Report [http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35480.htm] estimates the number of Jews in Russia alone at 600,000 to 1 million. :2 [http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html Jewish Virtual Library], [http://www.jewfaq.org/populatn.htm JewFAQ] :3 Data based on a study by ''Jewish People Policy Institute'' (JPPI). See ''[http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer&cid=1088046787193&p=1008596975996 Jewish people near zero growth]'' by Tovah Lazaroff, Jerusalem Post, June 24, 2004. :4 Data based on a study by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics. See ''[http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=836883&fid=942 Israel’s population is 6.8 million]'' by Zeev Klein, ''Globes online'' September 13, 2004. Includes (about 370,000) Israeli citizens living in the West Bank and Gaza. :5 See, for example Jews by country page for higher estimates. 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Jew



Older discussions may be found here: /Archive 1/; /Archive 2/; /Archive 3/; /Archive 4/; /Archive 5/; /Archive 6/; /Archive 7/; /Archive 8/; /Archive 9/; /Archive 10/; /Archive 11/; /Archive 12/; /Archive 13/ == List of Famous Jews == Say what you want, the list is silly. It obviously cannot be comprehensive or even representative. It looks out of place and degrades the euqlity of the article. I suggest we remove it, replacing with a reference to the separate "List of Jews" article. User:Cema 23:06, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC) :I agree. There may be something to be said for listing leaders who have influenced what it means to be Jewish (and I can't think of a clear example off the top of my head), but listing people who are famous and happen to be Jewish doesn't add to the content of the article. --User:Leifern 15:29, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC) ::I third the motion. Spin off this list into a separate article. User:RK 15:37, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC) Similar lists exist for most ethnicities. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 23:54, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC) :Jews are extra special. I quadruplehyperfourth the motion. Spin the list off into a new article. This article has sufficient content to justify the move. Leave maybe 10 of the most famousest, with a "see main article" blurble. User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 01:42, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC) Ignoring Tomer, because I don't know whether he was being tongue in cheek or serious, I would agree with Jmabel. I think parallel lists exist for most other ethnic groups, and, if we didn't have it there, people will keep adding it. We already reference the main page for this anyway. That being said, I would be in favor of coming up with a short, short list. I did an edit and commented out a few people, like Ayn Rand and Edward Teller, whose Jewishness had little to do with their fame, and who were somewhat dubious choices. Perhaps we should discuss here a list of five or ten that might be a good sample. --User:Goodoldpolonius2 02:37, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Hey! Don't ignowe me! My tongue is so fiwmwy stuck in my cheek that I'm having difficuwty tawking stwaight! User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 02:53, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC) ::That said, I'm almost opposed to a list of 5-10 in this page, because we're going to have christians coming and adding Jesus, Joseph, Peter, Paul and Mary to the list constantly. This section should perhaps discuss simply the percentages of nobel prize winners, etc., and leave the enumeration to the list itself.User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 02:56, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC) :::Percentages of Nobel Prize winners??? This is intended as illustrative, not propagandistic. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 06:08, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC) ::::Believe me, I understand that. I was not intending that as a suggestion for what SHOULD appear there, but rather as an idea for how to write that section of the article. I don't think there's anything "propagandistic" about saying that Jews have received X% of Nobel prizes, ''per se'', simply that this section of the Jew article should mention the areas in which Jews are prominent, or have excelled, and use the List of Famous Jews to elucidate that point. I don't think there's anything necessarily unencyclopedic about saying that Jews have excelled in certain areas have been recognized in certain fields, anymore than saying that, for instance, Spaniards, Dutch and Portuguese navigators were prominent in the exploration and discovery of farflung points around the globe during the European exploration and discovery of the planet before, during and after the Renaissance, or that Renaissance political thinkers, especially those influencing American political thought, came from France. Antisemites might ''resent'' the rôle and/or influence of Jews in any given number of fields, but I don't think that the Wikipedia is a place to censor the facts in order to make misguided attempts to "prevent" such hatefilled people from "gaining fodder". Lists of this sort exists on manifold antisemitic sites (if you doubt it, do a google search for "+jew +famous")...to avoid factual information of this sort makes Wikipedia appear to be propagandistic toward ''not'' recognizing accomplishments of individual Jews than including such stats/info makes Wikipedia to appear the purveyor of propaganda. Respectfully, Tomer User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 06:24, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC) Given that there is already a special page containing a long list, I do not see any reason to have a list here. I do not see a compelling reason to delete, either - other than the facts that (a) people will keep on adding and deleting names, according to their own preferences and criteria (Wittgenstein was being tossed in and back out some time ago), (b) it may not be very meaningful to put in one list people who were "Jewish" in different (if any) ways, incl. people who dissociated themselves (vd. Marx, though his father already converted) or were dissociated (vd. Spinoza) from the Jewish community. Of course, (b) also applies to the main "list of Jews" page, about which I, personally, have mixed feelings. I also wonder whether the presence of contemporary political figures is at all useful; lists like this, in this place, will be taken to somehow represent the group as a whole, or perhaps the views of the redactors. We could settle the matter by just having a link to the main page, perhaps under its own subsection. User:Hasdrubal 23:49, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC) Isn't there a consensus to get rid of this section? Unless someone objects in the next 2-3 days, I'm gonna cut it out. --User:Leifern 17:05, May 3, 2005 (UTC) :Please do. User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 19:57, 3 May 2005 (UTC) :As has been pointed out previously, cutting it out completely is going to encourage people to put it back in. Cut the list and cut the last half of the introduction, leaving the related articles in there, as well as the following textthusly: ::''Main articles: List of Jews, List of Jews by country'' :Despite the relatively small number of Jews worldwide, many influential thinkers and leaders from all times have been ethnically Jewish. :my 2 cents. User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 00:46, May 4, 2005 (UTC) ::That makes sense. User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 14:50, 4 May 2005 (UTC) :::Tomer, this looks good, though I would suggest a minor wording change: ::::''Main articles: List of Jews, List of Jews by country'' :::Despite the relatively small number of Jews worldwide, many influential leaders and thinkers in a wide range of fields have been ethnically Jewish. :::--User:Goodoldpolonius2 15:35, 4 May 2005 (UTC) ###Concur. User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 08:39, May 5, 2005 (UTC) ==Etymology nonsense== Was the contention of Mr/s. Anonymous User that gimel ''with'' dagesh is pronounced /dj/ by Temanim? And that this is the classical pronunciation for this grapheme? User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 22:27, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC) :Well, they do pronounce it that way, but it is doubtful that that was the classical pronuncation; it seems more likely Yemenite Jews got the sound from Arabic. However, the anon seemed to be trying to link that to the "J" sound in the word "Jew", which is, in my view, bizarre. User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 14:53, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Not only were the associated claims utter hogwash, but I'm pretty sure it is gimel ''without'' a dagesh that is pronounced /dj/, not with, which is what that edit was claiming, compouding bizarreness with just plain wrongness. User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 06:00, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC) == Yod vs. Yud == I see User:RK has changed "yod" in the article in favor of "yud". I can only assume that this is either cultural arrogance, or ignorance. The pronunciation "yud" is a majority pronunciation only among Litvaks. The rest of the Hebrew-speaking world still calls the letter either "yod" or "yoð", just as its name is given in every English or other language dictionary that either (or both) has the letter as an entry, or discusses the development of the Roman alphabet. In keeping with established norms, I think it would be better to consistently call the letter "yod", since the ''only'' realm in which it is called "yud" is in Ashkenazi circles, especially among Yiddish or Yinglish speakers, or their descendants. There's more to the Jewish world than just your shtetl! User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 23:37, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC) :I don't who you are, but I do not appreciate your personal attacks, based on your irrelevant theories about my ethnic background. The previous version of the article merely had a more clearly written paragraph; that was the only reason for my very minor edit. You can't come here yelling about reverts based on racial arrogance, and win anyone's approval. User:RK 20:31, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC) ::RK, I did not attack you, in fact I gave you an easy out. Also, I did not revert your edits. All I did was bring to your attention the fact that "yud" is actually a minority pronunciation. If my tone appears less than civil, I apologize, I thought my pseudo-HTML rant tag should have made my sarcasm clear. I meant no disrespect. I was only trying to convey my disapproval of your edit, which I leave up to you to revert. As for "racial arrogance", I never said anything about race, so I have to assume there's a deeper pathology at work here. User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 08:44, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC) :::Hey folks, culture note: depending on where one is in the world, one's cultural background, etc., irony/sarcasm used in this manner may be either (1) a way of lightening things up or (2) inherently bitter and accusatory. And it can also fall somewhere in between. Tomer, you might be a little more careful about that in a context like this. I assume you are from somewhere where it is case 1 but out here in cyberspace there are an awful lot of people who will read it in accord with case 2. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 16:27, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC) ::::Thin-skinned people should avoid reading discussion pages on wikipedia! (This was a sarcastic note, not to be taken literally.) Especially pages related to hotly debated topics, like Jews. (This was a sarcastic note, not to be taken literally.) User:Cema 03:40, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::::Tzema, Jmabel and RK, I have pretty "white" skin (try to pick out "the Jew" in [http://tomer.reebosak.net/pix/ghleebp.jpg]...trust me, I'm in there somewhere...), and so people often question my identity as a Sefardi (my maternal grandfather z"l was a Norwegian shegetz, whose genes have had an astonishingly pervasive influence on the appearance of me and my cousins...I love him past death, but his genes are a constant source of conflict for me). Given that, perhaps you can understand my apparently thin-skin when it comes to people "correcting" this article, especially, in such a way as to reflect Litvish pronunciation, which is, as I pointed out, a minority pronunciation. Cema: I don't think my edits betray a thin skin...although perhaps my rants here on the Talk page may. I believe that's the purpose of the Talk pages...I could engage instead in an otherwise inexplicable revert war on the article itself...one which I'm pretty sure, communicating with admins, I could ultimately win. Instead, I chose to come here and bitch, to explain my objection, without reverting even once. Call my skin thin, if that makes you happy, but I haven't thrown boiling oil at you yet, so, trust me, my skin isn't nearly as "thin" as your edit makes it apparent you think it is. RK: I still fundamentally disagree with your choice to change "yod" to "yud", and am hereby asking you, politely, as a fellow intellectual, to change it back to "yod". The pronunciation "yud" is nothing more than the pronunciation of a subgroup of Ashkenazi Jews, whose pronunciation is regarded by the vast majority of Jews (including large numbers of Ashkenazi Jews) as an obscene corruption of Hebrew. User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 07:47, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC) == anit-Semitic link == User:Jez, good job catching that anti-Semitic link that was added by the anon. I noticed that this link was also added to anti-Semitism by User:Sam Spade fifteen minutes later. A more fitting place for it, if any place is appropriate, in my opinion. It is truly a noxious web site. User:JimCollaborator User_talk:JimCollaborator 02:08, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC) :Sam is very diligent in ensuring that neo-Nazi and anti-Semitic sites, contributors, and viewpoints are not suppressed in any way on Wikipedia. User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 02:11, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::I'm willing to extend the benefit of excessive doubt to User:Sam Spade, and agree with you User:Jayjg that the link is not at all appropriate or even remotely relevant in the Jew article. Personally, of course, I'd like to see all Jewhaters die and go back to the hell they invent for themselves, but since that's not likely to happen before bi'at hamashiach, I'm presently willing to leave the link in Anti-Semitism under the "proof that unmitigated idiocy and ignorance are still rampant" links. User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 07:59, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC) :::Oh, I'm sure Sam's motives are purely the betterment of Wikipedia, regardless of the rather unsavory impression his actions tend to leave. As for your point, that's why I didn't bother removing it from the anti-Semitism article either. User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 15:09, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::Did I just kill my chances of ever passing a VfA vote? :-p User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 08:00, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC) ::::Not yet. :-) User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 15:12, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Convertite? == What the heck is an "Arabian convertite"? -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 04:59, May 10, 2005 (UTC) :"convertite" is an obsolete form of "convert". When it starts appearing in Judaism related articles (as it has before), it's usually a sign of someone using ancient sources or outdated information. User:JayjgUser_talk:Jayjg 14:58, 10 May 2005 (UTC) == announcing policy proposal == This is just to inform people that I want Wikipedia to accept a general policy that BC and AD represent a Christian Point of View and should be used only when they are appropriate, that is, in the context of expressing or providing an account of a Christian point of view. In other contexts, I argue that they violate our NPOV policy and we should use BCE and CE instead. See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/BCE-CE Debate for the detailed proposal. User:Slrubenstein | User talk:Slrubenstein 22:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC) i've heard of kurdish jews/jewish kurds, but i don't know anywhere near enough about them to write an article on them, or to add info about them to THIS article. User:Gringo300 05:07, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) == It appears that Judaism came from Zoroastrianism... == Well, according to that article anyway. I have just removed: :Traditional Jews and Christians typically seek to place Zoroaster's life at as late a date as possible, so as to avoid the conclusion that much of the theology and morality of the non-Torah parts of the Old Testament derive from Zoroastrianism, the ideas having flowed into Judaism during the Babylonian captivity which happened shortly after 600 BC. Judaism does not appear to become strictly monotheistic until after the Jewish people is freed from Babylon by Cyrus the Great (c539 BC). Even the first commandment is not unambiguously monotheistic. "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" seems implictly to accept the existance of other gods. I am sure that anyone here who believes this should be free to incorporate such stunning conclusions into the relevant article on Judaism. Be aware that one contributor doesn't seem to think that this is POV. Anyone here should feel free to balance the text, as I'm positive that this is not what Jewish scholars would say. - User:Ta bu shi da yu 03:25, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) :This position is neither "new" nor inherently obscene within Judiasm. It is true that, while Judaism is exclusively monotheistic, the first commandment ''does'' seem to allow for the possibility that there may be other beings regarded as gods (not in the common English sense of the word, but in the "judges" or "overlords", ''i.e.'', "determiners of what becomes of you", sense of the original Hebrew). I see nothing inherently harmful mentioning the (widespread) theory that absolute monotheism entered Judaism via Zoroastrianism, or even as a reaction ''against'' Zoroastrianism (since most forms of Zoroastrianism are far more dualistic than monotheistic), but any such mention should make clear that such theories are exactly that: theory. User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 06:05, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC) Um, that's not a theory, that's conjecture. Literally it means, you shall not have other idols before me. The Hebrew word for God and gods (idols) is different. although the spelling is similiar. This is a common mistake made by amateurs. The notion of strict monothiesm was certainly reinforced when Jews were in Exile, but it does not correlate to any major adaptation of Zoroastrian beliefs, in fact, that is why the Sephardic Tradition, is nigh similiar to the Ashkenazi tradition. Finally, isn't all of this based on correlation? Need I remind everyone that correlation does not equal causation? User:Guy Montag 06:28, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) User:Guy Montag 06:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) :I think you're erroneously assuming I'm defending a position. That said, your statement is incorrect. If the 2nd commandment is taken to be "lo-yihye lekha elohim acharim al-panai", it means Jews are forbidden to mention the names of other gods in the presence (i.e., during the worship of) Hashem. This quite easily can be interpreted to mean that Hashem is forbidding mention of the Name as part of a pantheon. It is not, literally, at least, a specific prohibition of polytheism, nor of henotheism. You're referring, I assume, however, in your condescending post, to the following commandment, and I submit to you that your statement is not only uncivil, but also uneducated, as there is nothing remotely "similar" between the words "pesel" (''i. e.'', "idol") and "elohim". I wish you good day, sir. User:TShilo12 User talk:TShilo12 08:07, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC) ::There are also those who make arguments that monotheism was introduced originally by Moses, and the later inclusions of Asherah, sacrifices to Moloch, etc. into the cultus were made during the Davidic monarchy. Another theory, of course, but well documented and argued by Mendenhall and others. User:Fire Star 05:05, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Protecting?? == This page seems to be vandalized a lot. Is there a reason it's not protected? Of course I'm just a newbie, so I'm not exactly sure what constitutes worthiness. User:Spindle 10:56, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) :In general we don't protect pages from vandalism unless it's a huge flood (it is usually better to deal with the vandals themselves). Protection is rather a last resort, and is seen as "un-wiki" by many. Hope this helps, User:Antandrus User_talk:Antandrus 14:54, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::Also (and this is speaking as a non admin), protection is usually used either for a temporary wave, or until an issue cools down. It seems that the Jew article will always be a favorite for vandalization, however; I'm not sure what good a protect would do. That said, welcome to Wikipedia! User:Mikeage 15:35, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Jew



jew

Jew



Hello, Jew, Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers to Wikipedia. Here are some tips to help you get started: * If you haven't already, please add your name to the Wikipedia:New user log to let others know a little about yourself. * Read the Wikipedia:Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the Wikipedia:Sandbox. * Eventually, you might want to read the Wikipedia:Manual of Style and Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines. * If you need Wikipedia:Help, post a question at the Wikipedia:Help desk or ask me on User talk:jrdioko. * Explore, Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages, and, most importantly, have fun! Good luck! User:Jfdwolff | User_talk:Jfdwolff 10:19, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC) PS To sign your name on a talk page, please finish your comments with ~~~~ (four tildes). The wiki will insert a link to your userpage and the timestamp. ---- ==Chabad links== Jew, I feel you're not helping by inserting links to chabad.net on any Jewish page. Kabbalah does not qualify for a Lubavitch networks link. You might prefer to edit articles, rather than inserting links.
A further concern is the fact that you seem to be misrepresenting Chabad. Let me explain. A large segment of Lubavitch does ''not'' believe that the Rebbe will return. To claim (through link insertion or otherwise) that ''all'' of Chabad subscribes to this belief is a violation of Wikipedia:NPOV. Please discuss this on my talk page if you have further questions. User:Jfdwolff | User_talk:Jfdwolff 10:26, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC) == hello.... == I have noticed that most of your edits wind up being reverted. For example: *Your edits on Messiah, Orthodox Judaism and Kabbalah were reverted by other users. Please do not post the [http://www.lubavitchnetworks.org/ Lubavitch] website on so many articles. It is considered a form of spam. *Your edits on Menachem Mendel Schneerson were reverted because you added the text "King messiah...May he For ever". Were the edits under 68.237.36.204 done by you as well? *Your addition of [http://www.kingmessiah.com/ Judaism info] was removed from Judaism, as was your addition of [http://www.kingmessiah.com/?c=8&catid=23&mador=bc Weekly Torah Portion] to Shabbat. Please be sure to review Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines, Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia, and Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Also, for major edits, please do not mark them as minor edits. Thanks for the time, User:Kingturtle 10:38, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC) == Vote: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Violence against Israelis == See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Violence against Israelis. Thank you. User:IZAK 10:20, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC) == Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion== See these six categories up for "votes of deletion": Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Palestinian_terrorists and Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Palestinian_terrorist_organizations and Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Middle_East_terrorists and Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Terrorist_organizations and Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Islamic_terrorist_organizations and this one too: Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Jewish_terrorist_organizations User:IZAK 10:10, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC) == Opinion for IZAK == Please see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/IZAK/Evidence. Thank you. User:IZAK 07:01, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Jew



{| style="margin: 0 0 1em 1em; border: 1px solid #aaaaaa;" align="right" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 |- | |- ! style="background:#66ccff; padding: 3px 5px 3px 5px; text-align:center"; |
Jews and Judaism
|- ! style="background:#ccccff; font-size: 95%; border-top: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaaaaa; padding: 0 5px 0 5px;" | Judaism |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | Etymology of the word Jew  · Who is a Jew? |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | Jewish leadership  · Secular Jewish culture |- ! style="background:#ccccff; font-size: 95%; border-top: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaaaaa; padding: 0 5px 0 5px;" | Jewish ethnic divisions |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | Ashkenazi  · Sephardi  · Mizrahi Jew |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | Yemenite Jews  · Bene Israel  · Beta Israel |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | |- ! style="background:#ccccff; font-size: 95%; border-top: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaaaaa; padding: 0 5px 0 5px;" | Jewish populations |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center" | Israel · History of the Jews in the United States · History of the Jews in Russia and the Soviet Union |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" |Jews in Canada  · History of the Jews in Germany  · History of the Jews in France |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" |History of the Jews in England  · History of the Jews in Latin America  · History of the Jews in Poland |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" |List of Jews by country |- ! style="background:#ccccff; font-size: 95%; border-top: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaaaaa; padding: 0 5px 0 5px;" | Jewish languages |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | Hebrew language  · Yiddish language  · Ladino language  · Dzhidi language |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | Judeo-Aramaic language · Judeo-Arabic languages |- ! style="background:#ccccff; font-size: 95%; border-top: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaaaaa; padding: 0 5px 0 5px;" | Jewish denominations |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | Orthodox Judaism · Conservative Judaism  · Reform Judaism |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | Reconstructionist Judaism  · Karaite Judaism |- ! style="background:#ccccff; font-size: 95%; border-top: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaaaaa; padding: 0 5px 0 5px;" | Jewish political movements |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe;; text-align:center;" | Zionism: (Labor Zionism / General Zionism / Revisionist Zionism) |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | General Jewish Labor Union · Kibbutz |- ! style="background:#ccccff; font-size: 95%; border-top: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaaaaa; padding: 0 5px 0 5px;" | Jewish history |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | Timeline of Jewish history  · Schisms among the Jews |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | History of ancient Israel and Judah |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | Temple in Jerusalem |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | Babylonian captivity |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | Hasmonean |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | Jewish-Roman wars |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | Pharisee  · Talmud |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | Jews in the Middle Ages  · Islam and Judaism |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe; text-align:center;" | Haskalah  · Hasidism |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #ffffff; text-align:center;" | The Holocaust  · History of Israel |- ! style="background:#ccccff; font-size: 95%; border-top: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-bottom: 1px solid #aaaaaa; padding: 0 5px 0 5px;" | Persecution of the Jews |- | style="font-size: 90%; padding: 0 5px 0 5px; background: #edf3fe;; text-align:center;" | Anti-Semitism: (History of anti-Semitism / New anti-Semitism) |- |}

Jew



:Note: See discussions about possible alterations to this template taking place at User talk:Alkivar/Jew ==Division of template== Given this division, some of the articles in the template were in desperate need of help. I got caught up in a wiki-binge and created a number of new articles, modifying the template slightly to accommodate. *Added Judaism link to top of the template, since the Jew-as-ethnicity issue is not as clear in the subpages, and readers may want to find out about the religions *Jewish Population Centers - Took you to a list of famous Jews by country. I moved that to a subcategory and created a new article Jewish population with information about current population centers and population changes. I also created subarticles specifically on History of the Jews in France and History of the Jews in Germany for the population links *Subcategories of Secular Jewish Culture - Do we need to list several types of Zionism? I narrowed it down to two, but we could improve further with some other ideas of secular culture *Jewish History - main article is weak and incomplete, I did some substantial work, including creating new articles on Jews in History of the Jews in Italy, France, and Germany, as well as a new Jews in the Middle Ages article. The categories were also a problem. 2000 years of history is covered by one article, "Rabbinical Leadership," which did not link to an article on the subject. I added links to Jews in Islamic Lands, Haskalah, the Middle Ages, and the Holocaust. *Jewish History/Rabbinical Leadership - I cut *Schisms among the Jews moved to a subpoint of history Still needing work: *Jewish Symbolism - I think that this could be eliminated, as it is religious in nature and covered elsewhere *Secular Jewish Culture - very weak article --User:Goodoldpolonius2 04:44, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC) ==Jewish ethnicity and Judaism== Also, I think we should consider making it clear this is a Jewish national/ethnic template not a religious one, perhaps: Jew_temp_sand --User:Goodoldpolonius2 03:54, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) You are of course aware that it is impossible to cut the Jewish religion out from the Jews and their history, and I have tried to keep to the format of the original Jew article which, while it focused on the notion of the "Jew" as an "ethnic" entity, it nevertheless functioned with the working assumption that the Jews' connection to Judaism over the past 3,300 was in reality inseparable. User:IZAK 05:50, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::Of course, as I think you can see from the articles I authored, I do not believe this is the case, but the article had just such a disclaimer. I inserted the Judaism link near the top for just this reason. Perhaps we should make it the same background color as Jew and also label it "Main Article" --User:Goodoldpolonius2 06:18, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) NO, I strongly disagree, we should NOT insert "Judaism" at the top equal to Jew, because then you will have to link to articles such as Torah, Tanakh, Mishna, Talmud, Halakha, Shulkhan Arukh, 613 mitzvot, etc, etc, etc,(all the stuff to be found in :Category:Judaism)... This is NOT a template about Judaism, it must remain a template PRIMARILY helping the Jew article, with some responsible mention of the Jews' connection and part of their Jewish religion whwich is fine. So let's keep to the original principles behind the seperations between the Jew and the Judaism articles working here too. (Later we may create a completely new template for Judaism. But for now let's work with this one on Jew.) User:IZAK 07:06, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::Okay, you convinced me. Are you okay keeping it where it is? (at the top, not equal) --User:Goodoldpolonius2 07:07, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) I am not absolutely certain. In the meantime you have disguised Judaism by calling it "Jewish religion". Let's leave it for now and see how others react, after all there is a whole list of articles here relating to Jew called "Jewish this-and-that" so why not have "Jewish religion" too, but it may be too much for some people. User:IZAK 07:38, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::I have not disguised Judaism, IZAK, I was simply trying to make the template easy to understand. The Jew article begins by explaining it is not about the religious beliefs of Judaism, but about Jews as a national and ethnic identity, which is, granted, entwined with the religion. If you want, rename the "Jewish religion" section "Judaism," that would be A-OK, it just seemed less clear to have the top two lines be "Jews" and "Judaism" without explanation. But I will wait for others comments as well. --User:Goodoldpolonius2 20:36, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) ==Secular Jewish Culture== IZAK, I think we should make the links under this more inclusive. It is not that the varieties of Zionism are not important, it is just that they do not all need to be listed in the template. Perhaps remove one or two of the Labor/Zionism links and include a link or two to Israeli culture or klezmer or something? --User:Goodoldpolonius2 03:50, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) *Hi, it was actually User:Jmabel who started this topic in the original Jew article, and I was trying to broaden its sub-categories as a spin-off article. My feeling is that since basically close to half of the world's Jews presently live in Israel (and many secular Jews in the diaspora identify with it), it made sense to include the two main divisions of secular Zionism. I will try to get Jmabel's input here. Obviously this is a "work in progress" and many gaps need to be negotiated, written, and/or filled-in. Thanks for the on-going input. User:IZAK 05:05, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::I agree with the importance of including Zionism, but I would argue that the clear intellectual movements behind Revisionist Zionism and Labor Zionism have faltered in recent years, or at least are not great indications of secular Jewish culture (it is not clear even in Israel that Labor holds to Labor Zionism and Likud to Revisionist Zionism, certainly not in their pure forms). Similarly, the Russian labor movement is historically relevant, but not as critical to modern Jewish culture. I would suggest that the links under secular culture consist of Zionism, Israeli culture, and perhaps one other? --User:Goodoldpolonius2 06:15, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) Hi, I looked at Culture of Israel, it's an empty shell with some names (singers what have you...?), nothing there of any import to explain why it has any meaning. And if you like this, it then makes sense to include the article of List of rabbis because rabbis have had more impact on Jewish culture over the past two thousand years then a bunch of Israeli or Jewish American singers and actors do today...I guess I tend to view the political aspect of Israeli life as important, and in the secular camp the main groupings are either Labor or the Likud/Revisionists...now obviously, "politics makes for some strange bedfellows" and in terms of the practicalities of every-day Israeli politics the differences are not always very clear between the movements, but they are there nevertheless and have been for some time. We cannot now just throw out over 100 years of Israeli and Zionist history in favor of the Madonna (entertainer) pop-culture phenomenon. Where is your perspective? User:IZAK 06:51, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::Gee, you are pretty aggressive your replies, no? I have not proposed adding Madonna, thank you for the mockery, and I indeed think that perspective is what is missing. I just added several new articles on Jewish history, and edited three or four others, so I am not saying it is worth ignoring at all. I am arguing that since we have a history section AND we have a culture section, it would be a good idea to give some idea of contemporary, or somewhat contemporary, Jewish culture in that section, not just political movements. Yes the Israeli culture link needs improving (I didn't write it), but the two Zionist links are stubs also, and hardly seem relevant enough as separate categories -- wouldn't the main Zionism link, which explains both, make more sense? Also, do you really think that the Bund is a deeply relevant topic? Anyhow, what would you suggest if you absolutely had to have two links on contemporary Jewish culture (either Israel or Diaspora)? What if we created the articles if none existed? --User:Goodoldpolonius2 07:06, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) *Hi, sorry, I didn't realize something bothered you, it's just that I'm trying to emphasize the obvious fact of just how shallow the current "culture" is. Sure write up what you think would fit this topic. As I said above, it was originally User:Jmabel who wrote the material as he wanted to insert material about non-religious yet Jewishly-identified culture of modern times. Since in modern times, secular Jews have been involved with Socialism and secular Zionism I thought that the articles were pretty well representative. I sense that what you want to deal with is the very up-to-date "culture" of secular Jews, and in that case, I am not sure if it differs all that much from the "culture" and life-style symbolized by Madonna (entertainer) whom many secular Israelis adore (and in America, secular Jews follow the trend-setters not far-removed from what Maddona represents, and in fact now she is a "Jewish" role model, calling herself "Esther", imbibing and practising the "Judaism" of the popular Kabbalah Centre), so it's a tough call to define exactly what constitutes "modern Jewish/Israeli culture" I bet!User:IZAK 07:34, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) *About Zionism, it would NOT be accurate to list Zionism as something purely "secular" as its origins and practice for many (especially those following Religious Zionism) is rooted in the Torah and has always been part of Judaism, its hopes, prayers, and aspirations for two millenia (see as a profound example Jerusalem#Jerusalem, Jews and Judaism). Labor Zionism and Revisionism are secular manifestations of the original widely-shared Zionism rooted in Judaism (I think you are confusing some extreme views opposing Zionism by the Haredi Judaism minority outlook with some objective facts, that most Jews had always been Zionists as part of their Judaism.) User:IZAK 07:34, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::Point taken on the difficulty of identifying modern Jewish culture, but see the expansions I made to the Secular Jewish culture article as a start -- and there certainly has been a distinct Jewish culture, however, as intertwined with religion as it is. In any case, I was not trying to list Zionism as purely secular, but simply saying that "top-level" template pages should be strongly relevant. Thus, one Zionism link would work, and possibly a link to Jewish culture (ill defined as that is), I still do not see why the Bund should be a top-level link. Perhaps we could write a new article on Jewish political movements (the Bund, kibbutz/Labor Zionism, etc.?) and link that, just so there is a starting point for researchers--User:Goodoldpolonius2 20:36, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC) For whatever it's worth, I will plunge into some of this soon (though probably not the next day or so). As a convinced diasporist myself, I will certainly help out on Secular Jewish culture, though I probably will be more focused on diaspora Jews than on Israel. I actually do think that giving some prominence to the Labor Zionism / Revisionist Zionism distinction may be valuable, especially with ''Zionism'' so often used these days simply as an epithet. I think it is valuable to emphasize the complexity of a movement that many outside of Jewish culture see as a monolith. However, I don't think I'm expert enough to contribute a lot to those articles. Anyway, I think the most important thing is to write and expand articles. Let's look again a month or so from now, and if there are areas where we can develop strong articles, then obviously those belong in the template. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 21:21, Dec 12, 2004 (UTC) == Problems with the template == This table stacks up really ugly with the other tables on articles such as Romaniotes and Bene Israel on higher resolutions. You should probably fix this. Also, isn't it a bit over-zealous to try to include all Jewish history, ethnology, linguistics, etc. in a single table? Last, did you forget to include the Italkim] among the other ethnic groups? User:Etz Haim 03:39, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) *Hi, I just added Italkim. User:IZAK 05:37, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::I think the table actually works quite well, even if it is long, it helps tie together the many articles in the subject. IZAK, I think that the "English" versions of the ethnicities are confusing, it would be better to let the article speak for themselves - calling Sephardic Jews "Spanish" and Ashkenazic "German" for example, seems to oversimplify. It also creates confusion with the population cetners in the next section. Your thoughts? --User:Goodoldpolonius2 05:09, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) Hi: The reason/s I thought the English would help, is that "letting articles speak for themselves" is a problem. Many things in this area are "over-simplifications", and my aim is to make the template BOTH user friendly and intelligible. Perhaps you are right, and I will just tweak the names to make them consistent. User:IZAK 05:37, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) This template is far to tall, it should be broken up into its subsections which should be used on the relevant pages. ed_g2s">User:Ed g2stalk">User talk:ed_g2s 18:48, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) Hi ed_g2s: The point of this template is that ALL these subject are connected to the original Jew article, so breaking it up would be self-defeating. Let the "Jew" be. Thanks. User:IZAK 09:06, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) --User:Goodoldpolonius2 02:56, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) Hi, I love the idea. Here are some problems (and possible solutions), hope you'll find them constructive: * It repeats the word "Jew" far too many times. IMHO, we can safely skip it in most cases. It's good we are not talking about Argentinians (BTW, are there S. American Jews?) * I would combine few items per line (as is already done with denominations) where it makes sense - e.g. Bene Israel and Cochin (both are Indian Jews) * Some qualifiers may be safely skipped also, such as "Uzbek" * The Bund is not a part of Jewish culture, I'd get rid of it. OTOH, the consequences of Bar Kokhba's revolt are important enough for the history. * Is Jewish symbolism listed under the Jewish leadership? * I think ''ethnic divisions'' should be changed into ''ethnic groups'' (especially as they are being mentioned so early) * IMHO the Holocaust belongs to Anti-Semitism panel, right before H. denial HTH. User:Humus sapiensUser:Humus sapiensUser talk:Humus sapiens 10:40, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) ==Simplifications?== This template is getting very long, and should be simplified a bit. My suggestions: *I would suggest that we leave Jewish Languages without its sublinks - the individual languages are easily located in the main article, and this just expands an already large template. *Similarly, we could possibly cut down the number of ethnic divisions listed (Italkim for example), or at least put ethnic divisions with smaller populations in smaller type, say those below 25,000 people or so. *Perhaps we could make the links about secular Jewish culture in smaller type? Or remove a few? Or remove them all, leaving just main links for Secular Jewish culture and Zionism? Anyone (IZAK, jmabel, etc.) have any thoughts? --User:Goodoldpolonius2 21:21, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC) : I agree, I think several of these sections would be better off without a complete list. The "Who is a Jew?" link seems out of place. Ethnic naming divisions is too long. I dont think we need any of the Jewish populations section. I think the Jewish Leadership banner belongs inside the History section, as does the Jewish symbolism. I dont think the Anti-Semitism section needs to be itemized, but rather just Anti-Semitism. The ONLY section which deserves to have the extreme length it does, is the history section IMO. I think i'll make a copy in my user space and if it passes muster here, change the Template for my edit User:Alkivar 22:40, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::OK I crunched it down as much as I think is fair/possible. You can see my reduced version here: User:Alkivar/Jew. User:Alkivar 23:00, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC) Alkivar: Please leave the template alone! If you think that \"The \"Who is a Jew?\" link seems out of place\" (as you say), then you are absolutely NOT qualified to deal with this topic at all. One needs a greater knowledge of Judaism to propose to do what you say. See my other comments below. User:IZAK 06:48, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::You misunderstand, I think it belongs, but not as a sole background shaded box. It belongs as a subsection. Did you see my version of the template? it is still included! User:Alkivar 01:34, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::I mostly agree, but I'd make two changes: :::* One, I see, was already there: why on earth say "Ethnic naming divisions" instead of "Jewish ethnic divisions" which is clearer and is the article name. :::* "Jews by country" is really "Famous Jews by country". It only sort of barely belonged under "Jewish populations" but was OK when that was a long list. If we are going to cut out the list, this needs to be differently approached. Also, if we are going to cut out the list "Jewish populations" really needs to link to the country-specific articles, which it currenly doesn't. I think it might be simpler just to leave this as it was, but the specific proposed change is not good. :::I could agree to the rest of these changes. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 23:26, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC) ::::Did you review the modified template in my user space? I agree with the first change and made it. As for the other, I reduced it down to a list of Jews by Country since there is already a SEPERATE template for . I also did not remove the link to Jewish populations, because I think that article is a more appropriate place for the content being removed. User:Alkivar 00:33, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::::But the current template links to some (often rather good) articles about the history of the Jews in various countries, and just links to lists of famous Jews. Two different matters. I'm a lot more concerned to get people easy access to articles about the situations of large Jewish populations than the booster-ish lists of famous people who happen to be Jews. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 02:08, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC) ::::::Perhaps then should be modified to include them then? MY primary goal was to reduce the overall size of the Jew template, as I am not Jewish I felt my religious neutrality would help stem complaints when reducing the list size. The Jew template is simply too damn large, on a screen thats 800x600 its the equivalent of 3 screens tall! The template is tiny, IT could stand to be enlarged, I feel that would be a better template for the content anyways. Thats my $0.02 anyway. User:Alkivar 02:24, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::::::Individual pages in the JewsByCountry series already link to the appropriate history pages. However, as Jmabel says, JewsByCountry is just a list of famous Jews. Perhaps we should create a new page for all the history articles: say Jewish history by country (split off from the current Jewish history article). Just my ₪0.02. (PS Thanks IZAK for the link here.) User:Juko 10:27, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::::::::With a template, presumably? User:Udzu 10:36, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) *This is a good improvement, but I agree with Jmabel, include the individual country links under Jewish population, since they cover present major Jewish populations, and a huge amount of history and detail that should be accessible from the main template. The famous person list can be included or dropped. I again would say that the language list should be shrunken, there is no need to include the actual languages under the main link. --User:Goodoldpolonius2 02:56, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) **So your vote is to remove the language section and include Jewish Population centers? What do you think about my latest suggestion above to include that data in the Template? Is that an acceptable alternative? User:Alkivar 03:14, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) Alkivar Hi: You seem to be missing a big point here: The reason the template was created in the first place was because the original Jew article was too long and needed to be edited even though it had already spawned a number of "break-off" articles earlier. So the template was created to cut down the KB of the Jew article and at the same time unite all the articles "under one roof". By cutting down and and detaching articles from the template you are defeating the purpose of the template. Yes, it can use a little "trimming" as not all article have to be connected here, but mostly it should be left alone. User:IZAK 06:42, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) :IZAK, I don't see it as a problem if some things end up at one remove, just as long as it is obvious how to navigate toward them. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 18:28, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC) ::IZAK, I don't see how removing links to each individual language would hurt the template, the information is still easily accessible. Akivar, I think that the Jews by country template isn't a good solution -- I think it is better to still link to each of the population centers - they are relatively few major ones, and where they are and what they are like is quite important to the study of modern Jewish identity and nationality. Also, please note everyone that I created a new article History of the Jews in the United States to address a severe lack. Please stop by and modify and comment. --User:Goodoldpolonius2 18:49, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) I think the template needs to be shrunk, it's far too long as it is. Akivar's attempt is reasonably good. Rather than removing the Jewish languages entirely, I would suggest removing only Judeao-Arabic, which was never as widespread as Hebrew, Aramic, Yiddish, or Ladino, and which is in any event almost extinct now (as opposed to the others, which are still used). Regarding the Jews by country, perhaps only the major population centres should be including, Israel, United States, France, Russia/USSR. Other listings there have relatively few Jews, and in some cases larger population centers are excluded over smaller ones (e.g. U.K. there, but Canada not, Germany there, but Argentina and Brazil not). Also, perhaps the template could be made wider, along the lines of the template, so that it is not so many screens long. User:Jayjg | User_talk:Jayjg 19:02, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::I still think that langages can be excluded, but I would argue strongly for keeping in France, England, Germany, the FSU, Israel, and US as main links. Germany is currently home to the fastest growing community in the world, as is deeply linked to Jewish history, while Canada is not. England is the third-largest Diaspora Jewish population. Also, these are also not articles that could be found easily otherwise, so the template is really needed to guide people appropriately. --User:Goodoldpolonius2 19:19, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::Jewish population growth in Germany seems to have tapered off. And how do you get England as third largest diaspora? The order is U.S., France, Russia, Ukraine, Canada, U.K. This link [http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html] gives the numbers as of 1999, and since then the Jewish population of Russia and Ukraine have dropped further, as has the Jewish population of the U.K., while the Jewish population of Canada has grown. User:Jayjg | User_talk:Jayjg 19:52, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::::Jayjg -- y