
Ibn Khaldun, full name ''Abu Zayd 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Muhammad ibn Khaldun al-Hadrami'' (عبد الرحمن بن محمد بن خلدون الحضرمي), May 27, 1332/ah732 to March 19, 1406/ah808) was a famous Tunisian historiographer and historian born in what is modern day Tunisia, and is widely acclaimed as a forerunner of modern historiography, sociology and economics. He is best known for his ''Muqaddimah'' (Prolegomena). == Biography == Ibn Khaldun's life is relatively well-documented, as he wrote an autobiography (''al-ta`rîf bi-ibn khaldûn wa-rihlatuhu gharban wa-sharqan'', published by Muhammad ibn Tâwît al-Tanjî, Cairo 1951), in which numerous documents regarding his life are quoted word-for-word. However, the autobiography has little to say about his private life, so that little is known about his family background. Generally known as Ibn Khaldun after a remote ancestor, he was born in Tunis in 732 A.H. (1332 C.E.) into an upper-class Andalusian family, the ''Banu Khaldun''. His family, which held many high offices in al-Andalus, had emigrated to Tunisia after the fall of Seville at the beginning of the Reconquista, around the middle of the 13th century. Under the Tunisian Hafsid dynasty some of his family held political office; Ibn Khaldun's father and grandfather however withdrew from political life and joined a mystical order. In his autobiography Ibn Khaldun traces his descent back to the time of the Prophet Muhammad through an Arabic-Yemeni tribe from Hadhramaut, which came to Spain in the eighth century at the beginning of the Islamic conquest. In his own words: "And our ancestry is from Hadhramaut, from the Arabs of Yemen, via Wa'il ibn Hajar, from the best of the Arabs, well-known and respected." (p. 2429, [http://www.alwaraq.com/ Al-Waraq]'s edition). However, a few biographers (eg., Mohammad Enan) question his claim, suggesting that his family may have been Berbers who pretended to Arab origin in order to gain social status. One website - [http://www.salaam.co.uk/knowledge/biography/viewentry.php?id=808 Salaam.co.uk] - claims, without giving any sources, that this ancestry was through his mother and that his father was "a native of Berber" (''sic''), although this contradicts Ibn Khaldun's own words, since he traces his genealogy back to Khaldun through his father's side: : "Abd ar-Rahman ibn Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn al-Hasan ibn Muhammad ibn Jabir ibn Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Abd ar-Rahman ibn Khaldun. Of my genealogy back to Khaldun I recall only these ten, although there must have been more..." - (p. 2428, [http://www.alwaraq.com/ Al-Waraq]'s edition) ==Education== His family's high rank enabled Ibn Khaldun to study with the best Maghreb teachers of the time. He received a classical Arabic education, studying the Qur'an and Arabic language, the basis for an understanding of the Qur'an and of Islamic law, Hadith and Fiqh. The mystic, mathematician and philosopher Al-Abili introduced him to mathematics, logic and philosophy, where he above all studied the works of Averroes, Avicenna, Razi and al-Tusi. At the age of 17 Ibn Khaldun lost both his parents to an epidemic of the plague which hit Tunis. Following family tradition, Ibn Khaldun strove for a political career. In the face of a constantly changing political situation in contemporary North Africa, this required a high degree of skill, developing alliances and dropping them appropriately, to avoid being sucked under by the demise of rules who at times held power only briefly. Ibn Khaldun's autobiography, in which he spends time in prison, gains the highest offices and enters exile, at times reads like an adventure story. ==Early years in Tunis and Granada== At the age of 20, he began his political career at the Chancellery of the Tunisian ruler, Ibn Tafrakin, with the position of ''kAtib al-'alAmah'', which consisted of writing in fine calligraphy the typical introductory notes of official documents. In 1352 Abu Ziad, the Sultan of Constantine, marched on Tunis, and defeated it. Ibn Khaldun, in any case unhappy with his respected but politically meaningless position, followed his teacher Abili to Fez, Morocco . Here the Merinid sultan Abu Inan Fares I gave him a position as a writer of royal proclamations, which didn't prevent Khaldun from scheming against his employer. In 1357 this brought the 25-year-old a 22-month prison sentence. At the death of Abu Inan in 1358, the vizier al-Hasan ibn Omar set him at liberty and reinstated him in his rank and offices. Ibn Khaldun then schemed against Abu Inan's successor, Abu Salem Ibrahim III, with Abu Salem's exiled uncle, Abu Salem. When Abu Salem came to power, he gave Ibn Khaldun a ministerial position, the first which corresponded with bn Khaldun's expectations. By contrast, after the fall of Abu Salem through Ibn Amar Abd Allah, a friend of Ibn Khaldun's, Khaldun was disappointed, receiving no significant official position. At the same time, Amar successfully prevented Ibn Khaldun - whose political skills he was well aware of - from allying with the Abd al-Wadids in Tlemcen. Ibn Khaldun therefore decided to move to Granada. He could be sure of a positive welcome there, since at Fez he had helped the Sultan of Granada, the Nasrid Mohammed V, regain power from his temporary exile. In 1364 Mohammed entrusted him with a diplomatic mission to the King of Castille, Peter I of Castile, to sign a peace treaty. Ibn Khaldun successfully carried out this mission, and politely declined Pedro's offer to remain at his court and have his family's Spanish possessions returned to him. In Granada however Ibn Khaldun quickly came into competition with Mohammed's vizier, Ibn al-Khatib, who saw the close relationship between Mohammed and Ibn Khaldun with increasing mistrust. Ibn Khaldun tried to shape the young Mohammed into his ideal of a wise ruler, an enterprise which Ibn al-Khatib thought foolish and a danger to peace in the country - and history proved him right. At al-Khatib's instigation, Ibn Khaldun was eventually sent back to North Africa. Al-Khatib himself was later accused by Mohammed of having unorthodox philosophical views, and murdered, despite an attempt by Ibn Khaldun to intercede on behalf of his old rival. In his autobiography Ibn Khaldun tells us little about his conflict with Ibn al-Khatib and the reasons for his return to Africa. The orientalist Muhsin Mahdi interprets this as showing that Khaldun later realised that he had completely misjudged Mohammed V. ==High political office== Back in Africa, the Hafsid sultan of Bougie, Abu Abdallah, who had been his companion in prison, received him with great cordiality, and made Ibn Khaldun his prime minister. During this period Ibn Khaldun carried out an adventurous mission to collect taxes among the local Berber tribes. After the 1366 death of Abu Abdallah, Khaldun changed sides once again and allied himself with the ruler of Tlemcen, Abu al-Abbas. A few years later he was taken prisoner by Abdalaziz (Abd ul Aziz), who had defeated the sultan of Tlemcen and seized the throne. He then entered a monastic establishment, and occupied himself with scholastic duties, until in 1370 he was sent for to Tlemcen by the new sultan. After the death of Abd ul Aziz he resided at Fez, enjoying the patronage and confidence of the regent. Ibn Khaldun's political skills, above all his good relationship with the wild Berber tribes, were in high demand among the north African rulers, whereas he himself began to tire of politics and constant switching of allegiances. In 1375, sent by Abu Hammu, the Abdalwadid Sultan of Tlemcen, on a mission to the Dawadida tribes, Ibn Khaldun sought refuge with one of the Berber tribes, the Awlad Arif of central Algeria, in the town of Qalat Ibn Salama. He lived there for over three years under their protection, taking advantage of his seclusion to write the Muqaddimah (the "Introduction" to his planned history of the world). In Ibn Salama, however, he lacked the necessary literature to complete the work. As a result, in 1378, he returned to his native Tunis, which in the mean time had been conquered by Abu al-Abbas, who took Ibn Khaldun back into his service. There he devoted himself almost exclusively to his studies and completed his history of the world. His relationship with Abu al-Abbas remained strained, as the latter doubted his loyalty, especially after Ibn Khaldun presented him with a copy of the completed history, but simply omitted the usual panegyric to the ruler. Under pretence of going on the Hajj to Mecca - something an Islamic ruler could not simply refuse permission for - Ibn Khaldun was able to leave Tunis and sail to Alexandria. ==Last years in Egypt== In comparison to the Maghreb Ibn Khaldun must have felt Egypt was a paradise; indeed he himself said "He who has not seen it does not know the power of Islam." While all other Islamic regions had to cope with border wars and inner strife, Egypt under the Mamluks was experiencing a period of economic prosperity and high culture. But even in Egypt, where Ibn Khaldun spent the rest of his life, he could not stay out of politics completely. In 1384 the Egyptian Sultan, al-Malik udh-Dhahir Barquq, made him Professor of the Qamhiyyah Madrasah, and grand Qadi (supreme judge) of the Maliki school of fiqh or religious law (one of four schools, the Maliki school was widespread primarily in West Africa). His efforts at reform encountered resistance, however, and within a year he had to resign his judgeship. A contributory factor to his decision to resign may have been the heavy personal blow that struck him in 1384, when a ship carrying his wife and children sank off the coast of Alexandria. Ibn Khaldun now decided to complete the pilgrimage to Mecca after all. After his return in May 1388, Ibn Khaldun concentrated more strongly on a purely educational function at various Cairo madrassas. At court he fell out of favour for a time, as during revolts against Barquq he had - apparently under duress - together with other Cairo jurists issued a Fatwa against Barquq. Later relations with Barquq returned to normal, and he was once again named the Maliki qadi. Altogether he was called six times to this high office, which for various reasons he never held long. In 1401, under Barquq's successor, his son Faraj, Ibn Khaldun took part in a military campaign against the Mongolian conqueror Timur, who besieged Damascus. Khaldun doubted the success of the venture and didn't really want to leave Egypt. His doubts were vindicated, as the young and inexperienced Faraj, concerned about a revolt in Egypt, left his army to its own devices in Syria and hurried home. Ibn Khaldun remained at the besieged city for seven weeks, being lowered over the city wall by ropes in order to negotiate with Timur, in a historic series of meetings which he reports extensively in his autobiography. Timur questioned him in detail about conditions in the lands of the Maghreb; at his request, Ibn Khaldun even wrote a long report about it. As he recognised the intentions behind this, he did not hesitate, on his return to Egypt, to compose an equally extensive report on the history of the Tartars, together with a character study of Timur, sending these to the Merinid rulers in Fez. Ibn Khaldun spent the following five years in Cairo completing his autobiography and his history of the world and acting as teacher and judge. He died on 17th March 1406, one month after his sixth selection for the office of the Maliki Qadi. == Works == Unlike most Arab scholars, Ibn Khaldun has left behind few works other than his history of the world, the kitAb al-`ibAr. Significantly, such writings are not alluded to in his autobiography, suggesting perhaps that Ibn Khaldun saw himself first and foremost as a historian and wanted to be known above all as the author of the kitAb al-`ibAr. From other sources we know of several other works, primarily composed during the time he spent in North Africa and Spain. His first book, lubAb al-muhassal, a commentary on the theology of ar-Razî, was written at the age of 19 under the supervision of his teacher al-Âbilî in Tunis. A work on Sufism, ^sifA' al-sA'il was composed around 1373 in Fez. Whilst at the court of Mohammed V., the Sultan of Granada, Ibn Khaldun composed a work on logic, `allaqa li-l-sultAn. The kitAb al-`ibAr (full title: kitAb al-'ibAr wa-diwAn al-mubtada' wa-l-_habar fI ayyAm al-`arab wa-l-a^gam wa-l-barbar wa-man `A.sarahum min _dawI al-sul.tAn al-akbar – Book of Evidence, Record of Beginnings and Events from the Days of the Arabs, Persians and Berbers and their Powerful Contemporaries), Ibn Khaldun's main work, was originally conceived as a history of the Berbers. Later the focus was widened so that in its final form (including its own methodology and anthropology) it represents a so-called "universal history". It is divided into seven books, the first of which, the Muqaddimah, can be considered a separate work. Books two to five cover the history of mankind up to the time of Ibn Khaldun. Books six and seven cover the history of the Berber peoples and of the Maghreb, which for the present-day historian represent the real value of the kitAb al-`ibAr, as they are based on Ibn Khaldun's personal knowledge of the Berbers. For sociology it is interesting that he conceived both a central social conflict ("town" versus "desert") as well as a theory (using the concept of a "generation") of the necessary loss of power of city conquerors coming from the desert. Following a contemporary Arab scholar, Sati' al-Husri, it can be suggested that the Muqaddimah is essentially a sociological work, sketching over its six books a general sociology; a sociology of politics; a sociology of urban life; a sociology of economics; and a sociology of knowledge. The work is based around Ibn Khaldun's central concept of 'asabiyah, or "social cohesion." This cohesion arises spontaneously in tribes and other small kinship groups; and it can be intensified and enlarged by a religious ideology. Khaldun's analysis looks at how this cohesion carries groups to power but contains within itself the seeds - psychological, sociological, economic, political - of the group's downfall, to be replaced by a new group, dynasty or empire bound by a stronger (or at least younger and more vigorous) cohesion. === Assessments of Ibn Khaldun's Contribution === * British historian Arnold J. Toynbee called the Muqaddimah "undoubtedly the greatest work of its kind that has ever yet been created by any mind in any time or place." * Bernard Lewis describes Ibn Khaldun as "the greatest historian of the Arabs and perhaps the greatest historical thinker of the Middle Ages" (from ''The Arabs in History'', 1950, page 160) * Abderrahmane Lakhsassi writes: "No historian of the Maghreb since and particularly of the Berbers can do without his historical contribution." == Some Quotes from Works by Ibn Khaldun == ===On economics=== "In the early stages of the state, taxes are light in their incidence, but fetch in a large revenue...As time passes and kings succeed each other, they lose their tribal habits in favor of more civilized ones. Their needs and exigencies grow...owing to the luxury in which they have been brought up. Hence they impose fresh taxes on their subjects...[and] sharply raise the rate of old taxes to increase their yield...But the effects on business of this rise in taxation make themselves felt. For business men are soon discouraged by the comparison of their profits with the burden of their taxes...Consequently production falls off, and with it the yield of taxation." This sociological theory includes the concept known in economics as the Laffer Curve (the relationship between tax rates and tax revenue follows an inverted U shape). ===On the Arabs=== "Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption. They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense. So when they encounter any difficulty or obstacle, they leave it alone and look for easier prey. And tribes well-fortified against them on the slopes of the hills escape their corruption and destruction, because they prefer not to climb hills, nor expend effort, nor take risks. Whereas plains, when they can reach them due to lack of protection and weakness of the state, are spoils for them and morsels for them to eat, which they will keep despoiling and raiding and conquering with ease until their people are defeated, then imitate them with mutual conflict and political decline, until their civilization is destroyed. And Allah is capable of their creation, and He is the One, the Victorious, and there is no other lord than Him." [http://www.al-eman.com/islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=163&CID=8#s3 (original text)] ====Note on Ibn Khaldun's use of "Arab"==== Some scholars believe that, in many instances, Ibn Khaldun uses the name ''Arab'' to mean ''bedouin.'' Other scholars, such as Mohamed Chafik, deny this. From Bernard Lewis, ''The Arabs in History'' pp. 14-16 (1950) :"From late 'Abbasid times onwards the word Arab reverts to its earlier meaning of Bedouin or nomad, becoming in effect a social rather than an ethnic term. In many of the Western chronicles of the Crusades it is used only for Bedouin, while the mass of the Muslim population of the Near East are called Saracens. It is certainly in this sense that in the sixteenth century Tasso speaks of ::'Altri Arabi poi, che di soggiorno, / certo non sono stabili abitanti;' (Gerusalemme Liberata, XVII 21.) :"The fourteenth-century Arabic historian Ibn Khaldun, himself a townsman of Arab descent, uses the word commonly in this sense." ''Some text from the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica'' ==See also== *Sundiata Keita *Egon Orowan ==Bibliography== *Ibn Khaldun: ''The Muqaddimah: an Introduction to History''. Translated from the Arabic by Franz Rosenthal. 3 vols. New York: Princeton 1958. *Ibn Khaldun: ''The Muqaddimah: an Introduction to History''. Trans Franz Rosenthal, ed N.J. Dawood. 1 vol (abridged) 1967. *Muhsin Mahdi: ''Ibn Khaldun's Philosophy of History''. London 1957. *Walter Fischel, ''Ibn Khaldun in Egypt; his public functions and his historical research, 1382-1406; a study in Islamic historiography''. Berkeley, University of California Press, 1967. *Mahmoud Rabi', ''The political theory of Ibn Khaldun'', Leiden 1967 *Ibn Khaldun: ''al-Ta'rîf bi-ibn Khaldûn wa rihlatuhu gharban wa-sharqan''. Published by Muhammad ibn Tâwît al-Tanjî. Cairo 1951. (Autobiography, Arabic) ==External links== *[http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/ibnkhaldun/ Ibn Khaldun on the Web] *[http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/klf.htm Ibn Khaldun: His Life and Work, by Muhammad Hozien] *[http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/KHALDUN.html Muslim Scientists and Scholars - Ibn Khaldun] *[http://www.tawiza.nl/content/awid.php?id=414&sid=14&andra=artikel Dutch biography] *[http://membres.lycos.fr/benikou/ Chapters from the Muqaddimah and the History of Ibn Khaldun in Arabic] *[http://amazighworld.net/history/ancienthistory/articles/arabe_ibn_khaldun.php "Les Arabes n'établissent leur domination que sur des pays de plaines"] *[http://nobsnews.blogspot.com/1993/11/growths-of-civilizations.html#ibn_khaldun Ibn Khaldūn, from Arnold Toynbee, ''A Study of History'' vol. iii, III. C. II. (b), p. 321] *[http://mothboard.com/board.php?board=Ibn%20Khaldun Ibn Khaldun Discussion] *[http://www.tunisiancommunity.org/ibnkhaldun_award/introduction.htm The Ibn Khaldoun Community Service Award] *[http://home.hio.no/~araki/arabase/ibn/khaldun.html#The Prolegomena (al-Muqaddimah): Methodology & concepts of economic-socioogy] 1332 births 1406 deaths Arab historians Autobiographers ms:Abdul Al-Rahman Ibn Muhammad Ibn Khaldun
ibn khaldun komed from jemen, averroes was a arab. the arab brought the civilation to north-afrika. the berber are old arabs. berberlanguage is a old arabic.... (enough of counterfeiting) if his origin was certain: why claim this arab-speaking ibn khaldun was a berber. ([http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:LqUI9eATFYYJ:www.al-asfoor.com/article13h.htm+%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%86+%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%86+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%8A+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%8A%D8%B9%D8%A9&hl=ar ibn khaldun and sjietes] why claim taha hsien ibn khaldun was a berber. why claim mohamed chafik he was a berber... for meer information see: http://www.tawalt.com/monthly/33_shafeeq_b.pdf for :mohamed chafik .User:Aziri 14:36, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC) : If he's a Berber, why would he call himself "al-Hadrami"? Look at his first page: [http://www.alwaraq.com/index5.htm?c=http://www.alwaraq.com/cgi-bin/doccgi.exe/booksearch?book=116&option=1&offset=1&searchtext=CEE1CFE6E4&fkey=1&RangeOp=1&WordForm=1&totalpages=31&m=http://www.alwaraq.com/search.htm]. - User:Mustafaa 19:03, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC) :OK, I think pp. 559-560 of his Tarikh settle the argument once and for all: ::قال ابن حزم: ويقال إن حضرموت هو ابن يقطن أخي قحطان والله أعلم. وكان فيهم رياسة إلى الإسلام. منهم وائل بن حجر له صحبة، وهو وائل بن حجر بن سعيد بن مسروق بن وائل بن النعمان بن ربيعة بن الحارث بن عوف بن سعد بن عوف بن عدي بن شرحبيل بن الحرث بن مالك بن مرة بن حمير بن زيد بن لابي بن مالك بن قدامة بن أعجب بن مالك ابن لابي بن قحطان. وابنه علقمة بن وائل. وسقط عنده بين حجر أبي وائل وسعيد بن مسروق أب اسمه سعد وهو ابن سعيد. [http://www.alwaraq.com/index2.htm?i=116&page=559] ::ثم قال ابن حزم: ويذكر بنو خلدون الأشبيليون فيقال: إنهم من ولد الجبار بن علقمة بن وائل، منهم علي المنذر بن محمد، وابنه بقرمونة وأشبيلية اللذين قتلهما إبراهيم بن حجاج اللخمي غيلةً، وهما ابنا عثمان أبي بكر بن خالد بن عثمان أبي بكر بن مخلوف المعروف بخلدون الداخل المشرق. وقال غيره في خلدون الأول: إنه ابن عمرو بن خلدون. وقال ابن حزم في خلدون أنه ابن عثمان بن هانيء بن الخطاب بن كريب بن معد يكرب بن الحرث بن وائل بن حجر. وقال غيره خلدون بن مسلم بن عمر بن الخطاب بن هانيء بن كريب بن معد يكرب بن الحرث بن وائل. قال ابن حزم: والصدف من بني حضرموت وهو الصدف بن أسلم بن زيد بن مالك بن زيد بن حضرموت الأكبر. قال ومن حضرموت العلاء بن الحضرمي الذي ولاه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم البحرين، وأبو بكر وعمر من بعده إلى أن توفي سنة إحدى وعشرين، وهو العلاء بن عبد الله بن عبدة بن حماد بن مالك حليف بني أمية بن عبد شمس، وأخوه ميمون بن الحضرمي بن الصدف. فيقال عبد الله بن حماد بن أكبر بن ربيعة بن مالك بن أكبر بن غريب بن مالك بن الخزرج بن الصدف. قال وأخت العلاء الصعبة بنت الحضرمي أم طلحة بن عبد الله. ::وأما جرهم فقال ابن سعيد: إنهم أمتان أمة على عهد عاد، وأمة من ولد جرهم بن قحطان. ولما ملك يعرب بن قحطان اليمن ملك أخوه جرهم الحجاز، ثم ملك من بعده ابنه عبد ياليل بن جرهم، ثم ابنه جرشم بن عبد ياليل، ثم ملك من بعده ابنه عبد المدان بن جرشم، ثم ابنه نفيلة بن عبد المدان. ثم ابنه عبد المسيح بن نفيلة ثم ابنه مضاض بن عبد المسيح، ثم ابنه عمرو بن مضاض، ثم أخوه الحرث بن مضاض، ثم ابنه عمرو بن الحرث، ثم أخوه بشر بن الحرث ثم مضاض بن عمرو بن مضاض. قال وهذه الأمة الثانية هم الذين بعث إليهم إسماعيل وتزوج فيهم. [http://www.alwaraq.com/index5.htm?c=http://www.alwaraq.com/cgi-bin/doccgi.exe/booksearch?book=116&option=1&offset=1&searchtext=CEE1CFE6E4&fkey=1&RangeOp=1&WordForm=1&totalpages=31&m=http://www.alwaraq.com/search.htm] Read this and tell me if he was Berber or not. - User:Mustafaa 19:20, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC) i did read it. and i tell you that he was a berber. do yoy know that there an another hadramoet in tunise , now his name is ssoussa ? yes, you know that , but you think that we don't knouw that.User:Aziri 10:28, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) No. There is linguistically no way that the Latin "Hadrumetum" could have become Hadhramaut in Arabic - H disappeared from Latin long before the Arabs reached North Africa. If they had taken over the name, which as far as I know thye did not, it would have become أدروميت. If you claim that "Hadhramawt" has ever been used in Arabic to mean "Sousse", then prove it; show me one medieval source in Arabic calling Sousse Hadhramawt. Besides, didn't you notice the text is talking about Qahtan, the mythical ancestor of the Arabs? And Murra, which is still a big Yemeni tribe? - User:Mustafaa 23:12, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) Oh - and Muhammad Chafik says he's "maghrebin", not that he's Berber: [www.mondeberbere.com/culture/ chafik/maghreb/substratberbere.PDF]. That would be because he wasn't Berber... - User:Mustafaa 23:27, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) Do a little search in Ibn Khaldun for حضرموت at [http://www.alwaraq.com]. You'll get 27 pages, with plenty of things like: فكانت مواطنهم الأولى بأحقاف الرمل بين اليمن وعمان إلى حضرموت والشحر عمان- وهي من ممالك جزيرة العرب المشتملة على اليمن والحجاز والشحر وحضرموت وعمان If you're confused about what Ibn Khaldun means when he says Hadhramaut, read those 27 pages. - User:Mustafaa 05:00, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC) oeh , yes he was amaghribin he wasn't a berber. maghrib arab, same us i'm also arab. same us you are the only one who can understand mohamed chafik, same us are more learned then taha husayn. ibn khaldun was born in tunisie and he was not an arab. hij saied even that the most learned were not arabs. who can ibn khaldun the learned be an arab. see this : ==Most of the scientists were no Arabs :== Strange is that the scientists generally no Arabs were and this applies both to the scientists in Islam and in science. And if there is an Arab under them, then he is gearabiseerd. Nevertheless the owner of CHARIA (Islamic legislation) came from their middle. And this comes because the Arabs are ignorant and have had never knowledge. Even those whom Arab grammar products has made expatriate. First Sibawayh were from the Persian realm and then Al-Zajaaj, these two were AJAM (everyone who is no Arab). The expatriate have made grammar for the Arabs and learned them the Arab language, art, laws and opvoedkunde. The meesten which Al-Hadith after to products have told of origin no Arabs. Then the Islamic scientists were not almost all Arabs. The Arabs could not write, note and not to express. And all those scientists who and have explained products have noted Islamic leathers and Arab grammar and have kept no Arabs of origin. Science was conducted by the Persian scientists, whereas the Arabs for competing with were concerning the power. The Arabs have ternauwernood interfered with science. The industry was carried out by the Gearabiseerden. When the Arabs devastate Egypt and the power there got, the Egyptenaren have kept themselves busy with science and Egypt was the country of science and industry. To these gearabiseerden which kept themselves busy with science were: SAAD ADDIEN ATAFTAZI, IBN ALKHTIEB, NASR ADDIEN ATTUSIE. The work of other gearabiseerden has been destroyed. ... see what the ather arabs saied about ibn khaldun : the did read a few of waht ibn khaldun deed write: عجبت كيف تسألني عن هذه الخرافة؟ ونسيت ما قلته أنت ونقلته عنّا في صفحة من صفحات كتابك انّه (أي محمّد الحسين) لا يرضى عن الرجوع في تأريخ الشيعة إلى ما كتبه إبن خلدون (البربري) الذي يكتب وهو في افريقيا وأقصى المغرب عن الشيعة في العراق وأقصى المشرق، إنتهى.فهل نقلت الأسطورة الخرافية إلاّ عن إبن خلدون أو أمثاله؟ وهل وجدتها في شيء من كتب الشيعة؟ إذاً فارشدنا إليه أرشدك اللّه، هذا وقد قرأت في كتابنا (أصل الشيعة وأصولها) الذي نوهت أنت عنه في هذه الصفحة. but that is not allthing the arabs claim also : -the berber komed from yemen. -berberlanguage is a yemenitic dialect. -ibn khaldun is a yemenitic. -averroes is a arab. -the arabs broucht the civilation to north afrika . (you may ask ibn khaldun bout it). here you can find that the berber are victims of counterfeiting of their history because the Europeans have said that they are berber, whereas they are old Arabs. *http://www.akbarlibya.com/AF/AF4.htm User:Aziri 10:31, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC) I've shown you that he himself says that he's an Arab; there is nothing more to say on this topic. Go back to arguing over Ibn Rushd; there, at least you can claim that we don't know for certain what his ethnicity was, but Ibn Khaldun tells us his ethnicity himself. If you want to prove that he was Berber, go read the whole book, and tell me if you find even the smallest shred of evidence. Until then, I will revert any change you make to this article. - User:Mustafaa 07:24, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC) oei, where ? and why did taha husayn and mohemd chafiq and all the berber and chiets saied thatb he is a berber ? if you don't believ that hadramut was the name of sousse , see: We visit one of the most attractive resorts in Tunisia today. Sousse, the ancient "Hadrumete", source : http://www.bestway.com/itineraries/t56.html User:Aziri 10:57, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC) No. There is linguistically no way that the Latin "Hadrumetum" could have become Hadhramaut in Arabic - H disappeared from Latin long before the Arabs reached North Africa. If they had taken over the name, which as far as I know thye did not, it would have become أدروميت. If you claim that "Hadhramawt" has ever been used in Arabic to mean "Sousse", then prove it; show me one medieval source in Arabic calling Sousse Hadhramawt. Besides, didn't you notice the text is talking about Qahtan, the mythical ancestor of the Arabs? And Murra, which is still a big Yemeni tribe? - Mustafaa 23:12, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) OK, even you can't pretend he wasn't Arab now:[http://www.alwaraq.com/index2.htm?i=116&page=2429] بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم التعريف بابن خلدون ورحلته شرقا وغربا التعريف بابن خلدون مؤلف الكتاب ورحلته غرباً وشرقاً وأصل هذا البيت من إشبيلية، انتقل سلفنا -عند الجلاء وغلب ملك الجلالقة ابن أدنونش عليها- إلى تونس في أواسط المائة السابعة نسبه عبد الرحمن بن محمد بن محمد بن محمد بن الحسن بن محمد بن جابر بن محمد بن إبراهيم بن عبد الرحمن بن خلدون. لا أذكر من نسبي إلى خلدون غير هؤلاء العشرة، ويغلب على الظن أنهم أكثر، وأنه سقط مثلهم عدداً، لأن خلدون هذا هو الداخل إلى الأندلس، فإن كان أول الفتح فالمدة لهذا العهد سبعمائة سنة، فيكونون زهاء العشرين، ثلاثة لكل مائة، كما تقدم في أول الكتاب الأول. ونسبنا حضرموت، من عرب اليمن، إلى وائل بن حجر، من أقيال العرب، معروف وله صحبة. قال أبو محمد بن حزم في كتاب الجمهرة: وهو وائل بن حجر بن سعيد بن مسروق بن وائل بن النعمان بن ربيعة بن الحارث بن عوف بن سعد بن عوف بن عدي بن مالك بن شرحبيل بن الحارث بن مالك بن مرة بن حميري بن زيد بن الحضرمي بن عمرو بن عبد الله بن هانئ بن جرشم بن عبد شمس بن زيد بن لأي بن شبت بن قدامة بن أعجب بن مالك بن لأي بن قحطان. وابنه علقمة بن وائل وعبد الجبار بن وائل. وذكره أبو عمر بن عبد البر في حرف الواو من الاستيعاب، وأنه وفد على النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، فبسط له رداءه، وأجلسه عليه، وقال: اللهم بارك في وائل بن حجر وولده وولد ولده إلى يوم القيامة. وبعث معه جارية بن أبي سفيان إلى قومه يعلمهم القرآن والإسلام، فكانت له بذلك صحابة مع معاوية. ووفد عليه لأول خلافته وأجازه، فرد عليه جائزته ولم يقبلها. ولما كانت واقعة حجر بن عدي الكندي بالكوفة، اجتمع رؤوس أهل اليمن، وفيهم هذا، فكانوا مع زياد بن أبي سفيان عليه، حتى أوثقوه وجاؤوا به إلى معاوية، فقتله كما هو معروف. قال ابن حزم: ويذكر بنو خلدون الإشبيليون من ولده، وجدهم الداخل من الشرق خالد المعروف بخلدون بن عثمان بن هانئ بن الخطاب بن كريب بن معد يكرب بن الحارث بن وائل بن حجر. قال: وكان من عقبه كريب بن عثمان بن خلدون وأخوه خالد، وكانا من أعظم ثوار الأندلس. قال ابن حزم: وأخوه محمد كان من عقبه أبو العاصي عمرو بن محمد بن خالد بن محمد بن خلدون. وبنو أبي العاصي: محمد، وأحمد، وعبد الله. قال: -وأخوهم عثمان، وله عقب. ومنهم الحكيم المشهور بالأندلس من تلاميذ مسلمة المجريطي، وهو أبو مسلم عمر بن محمد بن بقي بن عبد الله بن بكر بن خالد بن عثمان بن خالد بن عثمان بن خلدون الداخل. وابن عمه أحمد بن محمد بن أحمد بن محمد بن عبد الله. قال: ولم يبق من ولد كريب الرئيس المذكور إلا أبو الفضل بن محمد بن خلف بن أحمد بن عبد الله بن كريب- انتهى كلام ابن حزم. For the benefit of non-Arabic speakers: the chapter is about his own origins, and the key line is: "And '''our ancestry is from Hadhramaut, from the Arabs of Yemen, via Wa'il ibn Hajar, from the best of the Arabs, well-known and respected. ونسبنا حضرموت، من عرب اليمن، إلى وائل بن حجر، من أقيال العرب، معروف وله صحبة.'''. - User:Mustafaa 20:00, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC) i don't understand why are you writing all this. i know that the arabs claim that he was a arab. (but that is juist a smalle counterfeinting ,if you want to see more ,i will kopie that for you) . and what i say now, is not saying that he was a berber (according to my was he a berber), but i'm not here to say what he is. i write what the learends saied. it is nonsens tot say that was from yemen who where is andalusie , and he he is born is tunisie. if the arabs have decency feeling , then they saied not that he was an arab. ibn khaldun saied that the most arabs are barbarian. and they are seldom learend, and he saied that north afrika was nice, but the arabs did it distroyed. ibn khaldun saied that even the schientist of the relegion where not arabs. such as albokhari and moslim , and the are the most scientist and they are the most important scholars of islam. read this : http://www.al-eman.com/islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=163&CID=1 i realy don't knouw if you serieusly think that he was an arab. if you are such as the arabs who saied that Plato and athena and romein arabic words. if such as the arabs who saied that the berber komed from yemen, of such us the arabs who saied that aksiel and dihya and salih ibn tarif were jews... if yoy want the truth there is not proofs that ibn khaldun were arab of berber. i want not to say what is his origine. that for the scientist. but you don't think that i will say that he was an arab, because the arabs saied that. even same are arabs saied that he was a berber such as taha husayn and the arab of the ex-link. we know that his origin is unknown and same arabs (not all of them) that he was an arab , and same berber (not all of them) claim that he was a berber. you know that [http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article?eu=405433 Taha Hussein] was not stupid to say that he was a berber if he was realy an arab. and you know that [http://www.mondeberbere.com/culture/chafik/indexc.htm Mohamed Chafik] : not so stupied to say that he was probably a berber same us he may be an arab. : Taha Hussein may not be stupid, but (like 99.999% of the world) I doubt he ever read the entire Kitab al-Ibar. If he had, he would know - just as you should now know - that Ibn Khaldun says clearly and directly that he was an Arab and his ancestors came from Yemen. If you think Ibn Khaldun was such a big liar, why do you want him to be Berber anyway? - User:Mustafaa 19:18, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC) ==Conclusion== if you are so searly that he was an arab. you can bleave to think so. and is also for my if i think that he was a berber. BUT because his oringine , such as i saied, is unknouwn we can just write what there is saied. and that is so :" the origine of ibn khaldun is uncertain, that arab claim that he was an arab from yemen , his familly was in sapain, and he is born in tunisie. but other berber claim that he was a berber, because according to them (the berber) there is no proofs that ibn khaldun realy was from yemen. such as taha hussein and mohamed chafik and others. and the other important reason is that he did writed very negatieve about the arabs. User:Aziri 11:00, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC) :Explain this one thing to me: Why are you claiming that Ibn Khaldun lied about his ancestry? Or if you understand Arabic better: لماذا تقول أن ابن خلدون كذب لما قال أنه عرب في كتابه؟ It's not "the Arabs" that claim he was Arab; it's IBN KHALDUN that claims he was Arab! Can you read? - User:Mustafaa 19:10, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
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Ibn Khaldun, full name ''Abu Zayd 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Muhammad ibn Khaldun al-Hadrami'' (عبد الرحمن بن محمد بن خلدون الحضرمي), May 27, 1332/ah732 to March 19, 1406/ah808) was a famous Tunisian historiographer and historian born in what is modern day Tunisia, and is widely acclaimed as a forerunner of modern historiography, sociology and economics. He is best known for his ''Muqaddimah'' (Prolegomena). == Biography == Ibn Khaldun's life is relatively well-documented, as he wrote an autobiography (''al-ta`rîf bi-ibn khaldûn wa-rihlatuhu gharban wa-sharqan'', published by Muhammad ibn Tâwît al-Tanjî, Cairo 1951), in which numerous documents regarding his life are quoted word-for-word. However, the autobiography has little to say about his private life, so that little is known about his family background. Generally known as Ibn Khaldun after a remote ancestor, he was born in Tunis in 732 A.H. (1332 C.E.) into an upper-class Andalusian family, the ''Banu Khaldun''. His family, which held many high offices in al-Andalus, had emigrated to Tunisia after the fall of Seville at the beginning of the Reconquista, around the middle of the 13th century. Under the Tunisian Hafsid dynasty some of his family held political office; Ibn Khaldun's father and grandfather however withdrew from political life and joined a mystical order. In his autobiography Ibn Khaldun traces his descent back to the time of the Prophet Muhammad through an Arabic-Yemeni tribe from Hadhramaut, which came to Spain in the eighth century at the beginning of the Islamic conquest. In his own words: "And our ancestry is from Hadhramaut, from the Arabs of Yemen, via Wa'il ibn Hajar, from the best of the Arabs, well-known and respected." (p. 2429, [http://www.alwaraq.com/ Al-Waraq]'s edition). However, a few biographers (eg., Mohammad Enan) question his claim, suggesting that his family may have been Berbers who pretended to Arab origin in order to gain social status. One website - [http://www.salaam.co.uk/knowledge/biography/viewentry.php?id=808 Salaam.co.uk] - claims, without giving any sources, that this ancestry was through his mother and that his father was "a native of Berber" (''sic''), although this contradicts Ibn Khaldun's own words, since he traces his genealogy back to Khaldun through his father's side: : "Abd ar-Rahman ibn Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn al-Hasan ibn Muhammad ibn Jabir ibn Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Abd ar-Rahman ibn Khaldun. Of my genealogy back to Khaldun I recall only these ten, although there must have been more..." - (p. 2428, [http://www.alwaraq.com/ Al-Waraq]'s edition) ==Education== His family's high rank enabled Ibn Khaldun to study with the best Maghreb teachers of the time. He received a classical Arabic education, studying the Qur'an and Arabic language, the basis for an understanding of the Qur'an and of Islamic law, Hadith and Fiqh. The mystic, mathematician and philosopher Al-Abili introduced him to mathematics, logic and philosophy, where he above all studied the works of Averroes, Avicenna, Razi and al-Tusi. At the age of 17 Ibn Khaldun lost both his parents to an epidemic of the plague which hit Tunis. Following family tradition, Ibn Khaldun strove for a political career. In the face of a constantly changing political situation in contemporary North Africa, this required a high degree of skill, developing alliances and dropping them appropriately, to avoid being sucked under by the demise of rules who at times held power only briefly. Ibn Khaldun's autobiography, in which he spends time in prison, gains the highest offices and enters exile, at times reads like an adventure story. ==Early years in Tunis and Granada== At the age of 20, he began his political career at the Chancellery of the Tunisian ruler, Ibn Tafrakin, with the position of ''kAtib al-'alAmah'', which consisted of writing in fine calligraphy the typical introductory notes of official documents. In 1352 Abu Ziad, the Sultan of Constantine, marched on Tunis, and defeated it. Ibn Khaldun, in any case unhappy with his respected but politically meaningless position, followed his teacher Abili to Fez, Morocco . Here the Merinid sultan Abu Inan Fares I gave him a position as a writer of royal proclamations, which didn't prevent Khaldun from scheming against his employer. In 1357 this brought the 25-year-old a 22-month prison sentence. At the death of Abu Inan in 1358, the vizier al-Hasan ibn Omar set him at liberty and reinstated him in his rank and offices. Ibn Khaldun then schemed against Abu Inan's successor, Abu Salem Ibrahim III, with Abu Salem's exiled uncle, Abu Salem. When Abu Salem came to power, he gave Ibn Khaldun a ministerial position, the first which corresponded with bn Khaldun's expectations. By contrast, after the fall of Abu Salem through Ibn Amar Abd Allah, a friend of Ibn Khaldun's, Khaldun was disappointed, receiving no significant official position. At the same time, Amar successfully prevented Ibn Khaldun - whose political skills he was well aware of - from allying with the Abd al-Wadids in Tlemcen. Ibn Khaldun therefore decided to move to Granada. He could be sure of a positive welcome there, since at Fez he had helped the Sultan of Granada, the Nasrid Mohammed V, regain power from his temporary exile. In 1364 Mohammed entrusted him with a diplomatic mission to the King of Castille, Peter I of Castile, to sign a peace treaty. Ibn Khaldun successfully carried out this mission, and politely declined Pedro's offer to remain at his court and have his family's Spanish possessions returned to him. In Granada however Ibn Khaldun quickly came into competition with Mohammed's vizier, Ibn al-Khatib, who saw the close relationship between Mohammed and Ibn Khaldun with increasing mistrust. Ibn Khaldun tried to shape the young Mohammed into his ideal of a wise ruler, an enterprise which Ibn al-Khatib thought foolish and a danger to peace in the country - and history proved him right. At al-Khatib's instigation, Ibn Khaldun was eventually sent back to North Africa. Al-Khatib himself was later accused by Mohammed of having unorthodox philosophical views, and murdered, despite an attempt by Ibn Khaldun to intercede on behalf of his old rival. In his autobiography Ibn Khaldun tells us little about his conflict with Ibn al-Khatib and the reasons for his return to Africa. The orientalist Muhsin Mahdi interprets this as showing that Khaldun later realised that he had completely misjudged Mohammed V. ==High political office== Back in Africa, the Hafsid sultan of Bougie, Abu Abdallah, who had been his companion in prison, received him with great cordiality, and made Ibn Khaldun his prime minister. During this period Ibn Khaldun carried out an adventurous mission to collect taxes among the local Berber tribes. After the 1366 death of Abu Abdallah, Khaldun changed sides once again and allied himself with the ruler of Tlemcen, Abu al-Abbas. A few years later he was taken prisoner by Abdalaziz (Abd ul Aziz), who had defeated the sultan of Tlemcen and seized the throne. He then entered a monastic establishment, and occupied himself with scholastic duties, until in 1370 he was sent for to Tlemcen by the new sultan. After the death of Abd ul Aziz he resided at Fez, enjoying the patronage and confidence of the regent. Ibn Khaldun's political skills, above all his good relationship with the wild Berber tribes, were in high demand among the north African rulers, whereas he himself began to tire of politics and constant switching of allegiances. In 1375, sent by Abu Hammu, the Abdalwadid Sultan of Tlemcen, on a mission to the Dawadida tribes, Ibn Khaldun sought refuge with one of the Berber tribes, the Awlad Arif of central Algeria, in the town of Qalat Ibn Salama. He lived there for over three years under their protection, taking advantage of his seclusion to write the Muqaddimah (the "Introduction" to his planned history of the world). In Ibn Salama, however, he lacked the necessary literature to complete the work. As a result, in 1378, he returned to his native Tunis, which in the mean time had been conquered by Abu al-Abbas, who took Ibn Khaldun back into his service. There he devoted himself almost exclusively to his studies and completed his history of the world. His relationship with Abu al-Abbas remained strained, as the latter doubted his loyalty, especially after Ibn Khaldun presented him with a copy of the completed history, but simply omitted the usual panegyric to the ruler. Under pretence of going on the Hajj to Mecca - something an Islamic ruler could not simply refuse permission for - Ibn Khaldun was able to leave Tunis and sail to Alexandria. ==Last years in Egypt== In comparison to the Maghreb Ibn Khaldun must have felt Egypt was a paradise; indeed he himself said "He who has not seen it does not know the power of Islam." While all other Islamic regions had to cope with border wars and inner strife, Egypt under the Mamluks was experiencing a period of economic prosperity and high culture. But even in Egypt, where Ibn Khaldun spent the rest of his life, he could not stay out of politics completely. In 1384 the Egyptian Sultan, al-Malik udh-Dhahir Barquq, made him Professor of the Qamhiyyah Madrasah, and grand Qadi (supreme judge) of the Maliki school of fiqh or religious law (one of four schools, the Maliki school was widespread primarily in West Africa). His efforts at reform encountered resistance, however, and within a year he had to resign his judgeship. A contributory factor to his decision to resign may have been the heavy personal blow that struck him in 1384, when a ship carrying his wife and children sank off the coast of Alexandria. Ibn Khaldun now decided to complete the pilgrimage to Mecca after all. After his return in May 1388, Ibn Khaldun concentrated more strongly on a purely educational function at various Cairo madrassas. At court he fell out of favour for a time, as during revolts against Barquq he had - apparently under duress - together with other Cairo jurists issued a Fatwa against Barquq. Later relations with Barquq returned to normal, and he was once again named the Maliki qadi. Altogether he was called six times to this high office, which for various reasons he never held long. In 1401, under Barquq's successor, his son Faraj, Ibn Khaldun took part in a military campaign against the Mongolian conqueror Timur, who besieged Damascus. Khaldun doubted the success of the venture and didn't really want to leave Egypt. His doubts were vindicated, as the young and inexperienced Faraj, concerned about a revolt in Egypt, left his army to its own devices in Syria and hurried home. Ibn Khaldun remained at the besieged city for seven weeks, being lowered over the city wall by ropes in order to negotiate with Timur, in a historic series of meetings which he reports extensively in his autobiography. Timur questioned him in detail about conditions in the lands of the Maghreb; at his request, Ibn Khaldun even wrote a long report about it. As he recognised the intentions behind this, he did not hesitate, on his return to Egypt, to compose an equally extensive report on the history of the Tartars, together with a character study of Timur, sending these to the Merinid rulers in Fez. Ibn Khaldun spent the following five years in Cairo completing his autobiography and his history of the world and acting as teacher and judge. He died on 17th March 1406, one month after his sixth selection for the office of the Maliki Qadi. == Works == Unlike most Arab scholars, Ibn Khaldun has left behind few works other than his history of the world, the kitAb al-`ibAr. Significantly, such writings are not alluded to in his autobiography, suggesting perhaps that Ibn Khaldun saw himself first and foremost as a historian and wanted to be known above all as the author of the kitAb al-`ibAr. From other sources we know of several other works, primarily composed during the time he spent in North Africa and Spain. His first book, lubAb al-muhassal, a commentary on the theology of ar-Razî, was written at the age of 19 under the supervision of his teacher al-Âbilî in Tunis. A work on Sufism, ^sifA' al-sA'il was composed around 1373 in Fez. Whilst at the court of Mohammed V., the Sultan of Granada, Ibn Khaldun composed a work on logic, `allaqa li-l-sultAn. The kitAb al-`ibAr (full title: kitAb al-'ibAr wa-diwAn al-mubtada' wa-l-_habar fI ayyAm al-`arab wa-l-a^gam wa-l-barbar wa-man `A.sarahum min _dawI al-sul.tAn al-akbar – Book of Evidence, Record of Beginnings and Events from the Days of the Arabs, Persians and Berbers and their Powerful Contemporaries), Ibn Khaldun's main work, was originally conceived as a history of the Berbers. Later the focus was widened so that in its final form (including its own methodology and anthropology) it represents a so-called "universal history". It is divided into seven books, the first of which, the Muqaddimah, can be considered a separate work. Books two to five cover the history of mankind up to the time of Ibn Khaldun. Books six and seven cover the history of the Berber peoples and of the Maghreb, which for the present-day historian represent the real value of the kitAb al-`ibAr, as they are based on Ibn Khaldun's personal knowledge of the Berbers. For sociology it is interesting that he conceived both a central social conflict ("town" versus "desert") as well as a theory (using the concept of a "generation") of the necessary loss of power of city conquerors coming from the desert. Following a contemporary Arab scholar, Sati' al-Husri, it can be suggested that the Muqaddimah is essentially a sociological work, sketching over its six books a general sociology; a sociology of politics; a sociology of urban life; a sociology of economics; and a sociology of knowledge. The work is based around Ibn Khaldun's central concept of 'asabiyah, or "social cohesion." This cohesion arises spontaneously in tribes and other small kinship groups; and it can be intensified and enlarged by a religious ideology. Khaldun's analysis looks at how this cohesion carries groups to power but contains within itself the seeds - psychological, sociological, economic, political - of the group's downfall, to be replaced by a new group, dynasty or empire bound by a stronger (or at least younger and more vigorous) cohesion. === Assessments of Ibn Khaldun's Contribution === * British historian Arnold J. Toynbee called the Muqaddimah "undoubtedly the greatest work of its kind that has ever yet been created by any mind in any time or place." * Bernard Lewis describes Ibn Khaldun as "the greatest historian of the Arabs and perhaps the greatest historical thinker of the Middle Ages" (from ''The Arabs in History'', 1950, page 160) * Abderrahmane Lakhsassi writes: "No historian of the Maghreb since and particularly of the Berbers can do without his historical contribution." == Some Quotes from Works by Ibn Khaldun == ===On economics=== "In the early stages of the state, taxes are light in their incidence, but fetch in a large revenue...As time passes and kings succeed each other, they lose their tribal habits in favor of more civilized ones. Their needs and exigencies grow...owing to the luxury in which they have been brought up. Hence they impose fresh taxes on their subjects...[and] sharply raise the rate of old taxes to increase their yield...But the effects on business of this rise in taxation make themselves felt. For business men are soon discouraged by the comparison of their profits with the burden of their taxes...Consequently production falls off, and with it the yield of taxation." This sociological theory includes the concept known in economics as the Laffer Curve (the relationship between tax rates and tax revenue follows an inverted U shape). ===On the Arabs=== "Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption. They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense. So when they encounter any difficulty or obstacle, they leave it alone and look for easier prey. And tribes well-fortified against them on the slopes of the hills escape their corruption and destruction, because they prefer not to climb hills, nor expend effort, nor take risks. Whereas plains, when they can reach them due to lack of protection and weakness of the state, are spoils for them and morsels for them to eat, which they will keep despoiling and raiding and conquering with ease until their people are defeated, then imitate them with mutual conflict and political decline, until their civilization is destroyed. And Allah is capable of their creation, and He is the One, the Victorious, and there is no other lord than Him." [http://www.al-eman.com/islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=163&CID=8#s3 (original text)] ====Note on Ibn Khaldun's use of "Arab"==== Some scholars believe that, in many instances, Ibn Khaldun uses the name ''Arab'' to mean ''bedouin.'' Other scholars, such as Mohamed Chafik, deny this. From Bernard Lewis, ''The Arabs in History'' pp. 14-16 (1950) :"From late 'Abbasid times onwards the word Arab reverts to its earlier meaning of Bedouin or nomad, becoming in effect a social rather than an ethnic term. In many of the Western chronicles of the Crusades it is used only for Bedouin, while the mass of the Muslim population of the Near East are called Saracens. It is certainly in this sense that in the sixteenth century Tasso speaks of ::'Altri Arabi poi, che di soggiorno, / certo non sono stabili abitanti;' (Gerusalemme Liberata, XVII 21.) :"The fourteenth-century Arabic historian Ibn Khaldun, himself a townsman of Arab descent, uses the word commonly in this sense." ''Some text from the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica'' ==See also== *Sundiata Keita *Egon Orowan ==Bibliography== *Ibn Khaldun: ''The Muqaddimah: an Introduction to History''. Translated from the Arabic by Franz Rosenthal. 3 vols. New York: Princeton 1958. *Ibn Khaldun: ''The Muqaddimah: an Introduction to History''. Trans Franz Rosenthal, ed N.J. Dawood. 1 vol (abridged) 1967. *Muhsin Mahdi: ''Ibn Khaldun's Philosophy of History''. London 1957. *Walter Fischel, ''Ibn Khaldun in Egypt; his public functions and his historical research, 1382-1406; a study in Islamic historiography''. Berkeley, University of California Press, 1967. *Mahmoud Rabi', ''The political theory of Ibn Khaldun'', Leiden 1967 *Ibn Khaldun: ''al-Ta'rîf bi-ibn Khaldûn wa rihlatuhu gharban wa-sharqan''. Published by Muhammad ibn Tâwît al-Tanjî. Cairo 1951. (Autobiography, Arabic) ==External links== *[http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/ibnkhaldun/ Ibn Khaldun on the Web] *[http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/klf.htm Ibn Khaldun: His Life and Work, by Muhammad Hozien] *[http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/KHALDUN.html Muslim Scientists and Scholars - Ibn Khaldun] *[http://www.tawiza.nl/content/awid.php?id=414&sid=14&andra=artikel Dutch biography] *[http://membres.lycos.fr/benikou/ Chapters from the Muqaddimah and the History of Ibn Khaldun in Arabic] *[http://amazighworld.net/history/ancienthistory/articles/arabe_ibn_khaldun.php "Les Arabes n'établissent leur domination que sur des pays de plaines"] *[http://nobsnews.blogspot.com/1993/11/growths-of-civilizations.html#ibn_khaldun Ibn Khaldūn, from Arnold Toynbee, ''A Study of History'' vol. iii, III. C. II. (b), p. 321] *[http://mothboard.com/board.php?board=Ibn%20Khaldun Ibn Khaldun Discussion] *[http://www.tunisiancommunity.org/ibnkhaldun_award/introduction.htm The Ibn Khaldoun Community Service Award] *[http://home.hio.no/~araki/arabase/ibn/khaldun.html#The Prolegomena (al-Muqaddimah): Methodology & concepts of economic-socioogy] 1332 births 1406 deaths Arab historians Autobiographers ms:Abdul Al-Rahman Ibn Muhammad Ibn Khaldun
Ibn Khaldun
ibn khaldun komed from jemen, averroes was a arab. the arab brought the civilation to north-afrika. the berber are old arabs. berberlanguage is a old arabic.... (enough of counterfeiting) if his origin was certain: why claim this arab-speaking ibn khaldun was a berber. ([http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:LqUI9eATFYYJ:www.al-asfoor.com/article13h.htm+%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%86+%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%86+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%8A+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%8A%D8%B9%D8%A9&hl=ar ibn khaldun and sjietes] why claim taha hsien ibn khaldun was a berber. why claim mohamed chafik he was a berber... for meer information see: http://www.tawalt.com/monthly/33_shafeeq_b.pdf for :mohamed chafik .User:Aziri 14:36, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC) : If he's a Berber, why would he call himself "al-Hadrami"? Look at his first page: [http://www.alwaraq.com/index5.htm?c=http://www.alwaraq.com/cgi-bin/doccgi.exe/booksearch?book=116&option=1&offset=1&searchtext=CEE1CFE6E4&fkey=1&RangeOp=1&WordForm=1&totalpages=31&m=http://www.alwaraq.com/search.htm]. - User:Mustafaa 19:03, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC) :OK, I think pp. 559-560 of his Tarikh settle the argument once and for all: ::قال ابن حزم: ويقال إن حضرموت هو ابن يقطن أخي قحطان والله أعلم. وكان فيهم رياسة إلى الإسلام. منهم وائل بن حجر له صحبة، وهو وائل بن حجر بن سعيد بن مسروق بن وائل بن النعمان بن ربيعة بن الحارث بن عوف بن سعد بن عوف بن عدي بن شرحبيل بن الحرث بن مالك بن مرة بن حمير بن زيد بن لابي بن مالك بن قدامة بن أعجب بن مالك ابن لابي بن قحطان. وابنه علقمة بن وائل. وسقط عنده بين حجر أبي وائل وسعيد بن مسروق أب اسمه سعد وهو ابن سعيد. [http://www.alwaraq.com/index2.htm?i=116&page=559] ::ثم قال ابن حزم: ويذكر بنو خلدون الأشبيليون فيقال: إنهم من ولد الجبار بن علقمة بن وائل، منهم علي المنذر بن محمد، وابنه بقرمونة وأشبيلية اللذين قتلهما إبراهيم بن حجاج اللخمي غيلةً، وهما ابنا عثمان أبي بكر بن خالد بن عثمان أبي بكر بن مخلوف المعروف بخلدون الداخل المشرق. وقال غيره في خلدون الأول: إنه ابن عمرو بن خلدون. وقال ابن حزم في خلدون أنه ابن عثمان بن هانيء بن الخطاب بن كريب بن معد يكرب بن الحرث بن وائل بن حجر. وقال غيره خلدون بن مسلم بن عمر بن الخطاب بن هانيء بن كريب بن معد يكرب بن الحرث بن وائل. قال ابن حزم: والصدف من بني حضرموت وهو الصدف بن أسلم بن زيد بن مالك بن زيد بن حضرموت الأكبر. قال ومن حضرموت العلاء بن الحضرمي الذي ولاه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم البحرين، وأبو بكر وعمر من بعده إلى أن توفي سنة إحدى وعشرين، وهو العلاء بن عبد الله بن عبدة بن حماد بن مالك حليف بني أمية بن عبد شمس، وأخوه ميمون بن الحضرمي بن الصدف. فيقال عبد الله بن حماد بن أكبر بن ربيعة بن مالك بن أكبر بن غريب بن مالك بن الخزرج بن الصدف. قال وأخت العلاء الصعبة بنت الحضرمي أم طلحة بن عبد الله. ::وأما جرهم فقال ابن سعيد: إنهم أمتان أمة على عهد عاد، وأمة من ولد جرهم بن قحطان. ولما ملك يعرب بن قحطان اليمن ملك أخوه جرهم الحجاز، ثم ملك من بعده ابنه عبد ياليل بن جرهم، ثم ابنه جرشم بن عبد ياليل، ثم ملك من بعده ابنه عبد المدان بن جرشم، ثم ابنه نفيلة بن عبد المدان. ثم ابنه عبد المسيح بن نفيلة ثم ابنه مضاض بن عبد المسيح، ثم ابنه عمرو بن مضاض، ثم أخوه الحرث بن مضاض، ثم ابنه عمرو بن الحرث، ثم أخوه بشر بن الحرث ثم مضاض بن عمرو بن مضاض. قال وهذه الأمة الثانية هم الذين بعث إليهم إسماعيل وتزوج فيهم. [http://www.alwaraq.com/index5.htm?c=http://www.alwaraq.com/cgi-bin/doccgi.exe/booksearch?book=116&option=1&offset=1&searchtext=CEE1CFE6E4&fkey=1&RangeOp=1&WordForm=1&totalpages=31&m=http://www.alwaraq.com/search.htm] Read this and tell me if he was Berber or not. - User:Mustafaa 19:20, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC) i did read it. and i tell you that he was a berber. do yoy know that there an another hadramoet in tunise , now his name is ssoussa ? yes, you know that , but you think that we don't knouw that.User:Aziri 10:28, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) No. There is linguistically no way that the Latin "Hadrumetum" could have become Hadhramaut in Arabic - H disappeared from Latin long before the Arabs reached North Africa. If they had taken over the name, which as far as I know thye did not, it would have become أدروميت. If you claim that "Hadhramawt" has ever been used in Arabic to mean "Sousse", then prove it; show me one medieval source in Arabic calling Sousse Hadhramawt. Besides, didn't you notice the text is talking about Qahtan, the mythical ancestor of the Arabs? And Murra, which is still a big Yemeni tribe? - User:Mustafaa 23:12, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) Oh - and Muhammad Chafik says he's "maghrebin", not that he's Berber: [www.mondeberbere.com/culture/ chafik/maghreb/substratberbere.PDF]. That would be because he wasn't Berber... - User:Mustafaa 23:27, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) Do a little search in Ibn Khaldun for حضرموت at [http://www.alwaraq.com]. You'll get 27 pages, with plenty of things like: فكانت مواطنهم الأولى بأحقاف الرمل بين اليمن وعمان إلى حضرموت والشحر عمان- وهي من ممالك جزيرة العرب المشتملة على اليمن والحجاز والشحر وحضرموت وعمان If you're confused about what Ibn Khaldun means when he says Hadhramaut, read those 27 pages. - User:Mustafaa 05:00, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC) oeh , yes he was amaghribin he wasn't a berber. maghrib arab, same us i'm also arab. same us you are the only one who can understand mohamed chafik, same us are more learned then taha husayn. ibn khaldun was born in tunisie and he was not an arab. hij saied even that the most learned were not arabs. who can ibn khaldun the learned be an arab. see this : ==Most of the scientists were no Arabs :== Strange is that the scientists generally no Arabs were and this applies both to the scientists in Islam and in science. And if there is an Arab under them, then he is gearabiseerd. Nevertheless the owner of CHARIA (Islamic legislation) came from their middle. And this comes because the Arabs are ignorant and have had never knowledge. Even those whom Arab grammar products has made expatriate. First Sibawayh were from the Persian realm and then Al-Zajaaj, these two were AJAM (everyone who is no Arab). The expatriate have made grammar for the Arabs and learned them the Arab language, art, laws and opvoedkunde. The meesten which Al-Hadith after to products have told of origin no Arabs. Then the Islamic scientists were not almost all Arabs. The Arabs could not write, note and not to express. And all those scientists who and have explained products have noted Islamic leathers and Arab grammar and have kept no Arabs of origin. Science was conducted by the Persian scientists, whereas the Arabs for competing with were concerning the power. The Arabs have ternauwernood interfered with science. The industry was carried out by the Gearabiseerden. When the Arabs devastate Egypt and the power there got, the Egyptenaren have kept themselves busy with science and Egypt was the country of science and industry. To these gearabiseerden which kept themselves busy with science were: SAAD ADDIEN ATAFTAZI, IBN ALKHTIEB, NASR ADDIEN ATTUSIE. The work of other gearabiseerden has been destroyed. ... see what the ather arabs saied about ibn khaldun : the did read a few of waht ibn khaldun deed write: عجبت كيف تسألني عن هذه الخرافة؟ ونسيت ما قلته أنت ونقلته عنّا في صفحة من صفحات كتابك انّه (أي محمّد الحسين) لا يرضى عن الرجوع في تأريخ الشيعة إلى ما كتبه إبن خلدون (البربري) الذي يكتب وهو في افريقيا وأقصى المغرب عن الشيعة في العراق وأقصى المشرق، إنتهى.فهل نقلت الأسطورة الخرافية إلاّ عن إبن خلدون أو أمثاله؟ وهل وجدتها في شيء من كتب الشيعة؟ إذاً فارشدنا إليه أرشدك اللّه، هذا وقد قرأت في كتابنا (أصل الشيعة وأصولها) الذي نوهت أنت عنه في هذه الصفحة. but that is not allthing the arabs claim also : -the berber komed from yemen. -berberlanguage is a yemenitic dialect. -ibn khaldun is a yemenitic. -averroes is a arab. -the arabs broucht the civilation to north afrika . (you may ask ibn khaldun bout it). here you can find that the berber are victims of counterfeiting of their history because the Europeans have said that they are berber, whereas they are old Arabs. *http://www.akbarlibya.com/AF/AF4.htm User:Aziri 10:31, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC) I've shown you that he himself says that he's an Arab; there is nothing more to say on this topic. Go back to arguing over Ibn Rushd; there, at least you can claim that we don't know for certain what his ethnicity was, but Ibn Khaldun tells us his ethnicity himself. If you want to prove that he was Berber, go read the whole book, and tell me if you find even the smallest shred of evidence. Until then, I will revert any change you make to this article. - User:Mustafaa 07:24, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC) oei, where ? and why did taha husayn and mohemd chafiq and all the berber and chiets saied thatb he is a berber ? if you don't believ that hadramut was the name of sousse , see: We visit one of the most attractive resorts in Tunisia today. Sousse, the ancient "Hadrumete", source : http://www.bestway.com/itineraries/t56.html User:Aziri 10:57, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC) No. There is linguistically no way that the Latin "Hadrumetum" could have become Hadhramaut in Arabic - H disappeared from Latin long before the Arabs reached North Africa. If they had taken over the name, which as far as I know thye did not, it would have become أدروميت. If you claim that "Hadhramawt" has ever been used in Arabic to mean "Sousse", then prove it; show me one medieval source in Arabic calling Sousse Hadhramawt. Besides, didn't you notice the text is talking about Qahtan, the mythical ancestor of the Arabs? And Murra, which is still a big Yemeni tribe? - Mustafaa 23:12, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) OK, even you can't pretend he wasn't Arab now:[http://www.alwaraq.com/index2.htm?i=116&page=2429] بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم التعريف بابن خلدون ورحلته شرقا وغربا التعريف بابن خلدون مؤلف الكتاب ورحلته غرباً وشرقاً وأصل هذا البيت من إشبيلية، انتقل سلفنا -عند الجلاء وغلب ملك الجلالقة ابن أدنونش عليها- إلى تونس في أواسط المائة السابعة نسبه عبد الرحمن بن محمد بن محمد بن محمد بن الحسن بن محمد بن جابر بن محمد بن إبراهيم بن عبد الرحمن بن خلدون. لا أذكر من نسبي إلى خلدون غير هؤلاء العشرة، ويغلب على الظن أنهم أكثر، وأنه سقط مثلهم عدداً، لأن خلدون هذا هو الداخل إلى الأندلس، فإن كان أول الفتح فالمدة لهذا العهد سبعمائة سنة، فيكونون زهاء العشرين، ثلاثة لكل مائة، كما تقدم في أول الكتاب الأول. ونسبنا حضرموت، من عرب اليمن، إلى وائل بن حجر، من أقيال العرب، معروف وله صحبة. قال أبو محمد بن حزم في كتاب الجمهرة: وهو وائل بن حجر بن سعيد بن مسروق بن وائل بن النعمان بن ربيعة بن الحارث بن عوف بن سعد بن عوف بن عدي بن مالك بن شرحبيل بن الحارث بن مالك بن مرة بن حميري بن زيد بن الحضرمي بن عمرو بن عبد الله بن هانئ بن جرشم بن عبد شمس بن زيد بن لأي بن شبت بن قدامة بن أعجب بن مالك بن لأي بن قحطان. وابنه علقمة بن وائل وعبد الجبار بن وائل. وذكره أبو عمر بن عبد البر في حرف الواو من الاستيعاب، وأنه وفد على النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، فبسط له رداءه، وأجلسه عليه، وقال: اللهم بارك في وائل بن حجر وولده وولد ولده إلى يوم القيامة. وبعث معه جارية بن أبي سفيان إلى قومه يعلمهم القرآن والإسلام، فكانت له بذلك صحابة مع معاوية. ووفد عليه لأول خلافته وأجازه، فرد عليه جائزته ولم يقبلها. ولما كانت واقعة حجر بن عدي الكندي بالكوفة، اجتمع رؤوس أهل اليمن، وفيهم هذا، فكانوا مع زياد بن أبي سفيان عليه، حتى أوثقوه وجاؤوا به إلى معاوية، فقتله كما هو معروف. قال ابن حزم: ويذكر بنو خلدون الإشبيليون من ولده، وجدهم الداخل من الشرق خالد المعروف بخلدون بن عثمان بن هانئ بن الخطاب بن كريب بن معد يكرب بن الحارث بن وائل بن حجر. قال: وكان من عقبه كريب بن عثمان بن خلدون وأخوه خالد، وكانا من أعظم ثوار الأندلس. قال ابن حزم: وأخوه محمد كان من عقبه أبو العاصي عمرو بن محمد بن خالد بن محمد بن خلدون. وبنو أبي العاصي: محمد، وأحمد، وعبد الله. قال: -وأخوهم عثمان، وله عقب. ومنهم الحكيم المشهور بالأندلس من تلاميذ مسلمة المجريطي، وهو أبو مسلم عمر بن محمد بن بقي بن عبد الله بن بكر بن خالد بن عثمان بن خالد بن عثمان بن خلدون الداخل. وابن عمه أحمد بن محمد بن أحمد بن محمد بن عبد الله. قال: ولم يبق من ولد كريب الرئيس المذكور إلا أبو الفضل بن محمد بن خلف بن أحمد بن عبد الله بن كريب- انتهى كلام ابن حزم. For the benefit of non-Arabic speakers: the chapter is about his own origins, and the key line is: "And '''our ancestry is from Hadhramaut, from the Arabs of Yemen, via Wa'il ibn Hajar, from the best of the Arabs, well-known and respected. ونسبنا حضرموت، من عرب اليمن، إلى وائل بن حجر، من أقيال العرب، معروف وله صحبة.'''. - User:Mustafaa 20:00, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC) i don't understand why are you writing all this. i know that the arabs claim that he was a arab. (but that is juist a smalle counterfeinting ,if you want to see more ,i will kopie that for you) . and what i say now, is not saying that he was a berber (according to my was he a berber), but i'm not here to say what he is. i write what the learends saied. it is nonsens tot say that was from yemen who where is andalusie , and he he is born is tunisie. if the arabs have decency feeling , then they saied not that he was an arab. ibn khaldun saied that the most arabs are barbarian. and they are seldom learend, and he saied that north afrika was nice, but the arabs did it distroyed. ibn khaldun saied that even the schientist of the relegion where not arabs. such as albokhari and moslim , and the are the most scientist and they are the most important scholars of islam. read this : http://www.al-eman.com/islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=163&CID=1 i realy don't knouw if you serieusly think that he was an arab. if you are such as the arabs who saied that Plato and athena and romein arabic words. if such as the arabs who saied that the berber komed from yemen, of such us the arabs who saied that aksiel and dihya and salih ibn tarif were jews... if yoy want the truth there is not proofs that ibn khaldun were arab of berber. i want not to say what is his origine. that for the scientist. but you don't think that i will say that he was an arab, because the arabs saied that. even same are arabs saied that he was a berber such as taha husayn and the arab of the ex-link. we know that his origin is unknown and same arabs (not all of them) that he was an arab , and same berber (not all of them) claim that he was a berber. you know that [http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article?eu=405433 Taha Hussein] was not stupid to say that he was a berber if he was realy an arab. and you know that [http://www.mondeberbere.com/culture/chafik/indexc.htm Mohamed Chafik] : not so stupied to say that he was probably a berber same us he may be an arab. : Taha Hussein may not be stupid, but (like 99.999% of the world) I doubt he ever read the entire Kitab al-Ibar. If he had, he would know - just as you should now know - that Ibn Khaldun says clearly and directly that he was an Arab and his ancestors came from Yemen. If you think Ibn Khaldun was such a big liar, why do you want him to be Berber anyway? - User:Mustafaa 19:18, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC) ==Conclusion== if you are so searly that he was an arab. you can bleave to think so. and is also for my if i think that he was a berber. BUT because his oringine , such as i saied, is unknouwn we can just write what there is saied. and that is so :" the origine of ibn khaldun is uncertain, that arab claim that he was an arab from yemen , his familly was in sapain, and he is born in tunisie. but other berber claim that he was a berber, because according to them (the berber) there is no proofs that ibn khaldun realy was from yemen. such as taha hussein and mohamed chafik and others. and the other important reason is that he did writed very negatieve about the arabs. User:Aziri 11:00, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC) :Explain this one thing to me: Why are you claiming that Ibn Khaldun lied about his ancestry? Or if you understand Arabic better: لماذا تقول أن ابن خلدون كذب لما قال أنه عرب في كتابه؟ It's not "the Arabs" that claim he was Arab; it's IBN KHALDUN that claims he was Arab! Can you read? - User:Mustafaa 19:10, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
كتب ابن خلدون عن نفسه في كتاب العبر: "ونسبنا حضرموت، من عرب اليمن، إلى وائل بن حجر، من أقيال العرب، معروف وله صحبة" (ص. 2429، alwaraq.com). هذا ليس قول حزب البعث ولا قول جمال عبد الناصر ولا قول هواري بومدين، بل هذا قوله عن أجداده. لماذا تريد أن تزعم أنه أمازيغي إذا تعتبره كذاب؟ - Mustafaa 19:25, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
1+ ibn khaldun is not a liar, but the arabs . 2+this one is not a berber:http://www.salaam.co.uk/knowledge/biography/viewentry.php?id=808 the mother of ibn khaldun may be an arab women.User:Aziri 11:01, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC) According to Ibn Khaldun, it was his father: عبد الرحمن بن محمد بن محمد بن محمد بن الحسن بن محمد بن جابر بن محمد بن إبراهيم بن عبد الرحمن بن خلدون. لا أذكر من نسبي إلى خلدون غير هؤلاء العشرة، ويغلب على الظن أنهم أكثر، وأنه سقط مثلهم عدداً،. So basically, you prefer to take the word of one website which doesn't say where it got its information from over the word of Ibn Khaldun himself. You ever heard the story that ends معزة ولو طارت!? - User:Mustafaa 19:00, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC) the mother of ibn khaldun may be an arab women . that is funny .User:Aziri 12:16, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC) ---- The page includes a detailed discussion of Ibn Khaldun's own claim to be Arab and of the fact that a few biographers have suggested he may be falsely claiming to be Arab. I don't see what more any reasonable observer could want. Given that we have this paragraph, I suppose we could remove "Arab" from the first paragraph and defer all ethnic discussion to the second one, but that is about it. Do you have any perspective on this, Lectiodifficilior? - User:Mustafaa 18:26, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC) to be a judge about yourself is not perfect. but i'm very happy to write some quotes of ibn khaldun to the world. let it so. User:Aziri 13:48, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC) Indeed. I'm happy to keep the quote; in fact, I've even gone to the trouble of fixing it. - User:Mustafaa 20:49, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC) good, because some arabs claim that they brought the civilation to north africa . like as this :"...أصبحت مدينة قريبة منها تسمى تونس أهم منها...[http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%82%D8%B1%D8%B7%D8%A7%D8%AC]" english : and later became an other city near it and its name became Tunis ,more impotant then it .(the tunis of the arabs is became more important then the carthago of the romeins) . but what is the meanning of ibn khaldun (the tunisian) ? see : A nation which is submitted by the Arabs, will succumb the original article :[http://www.al-eman.com/islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=163&CID=8#s4]User:Aziri 11:21, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC) You need to reread that article. 1. Tunis was built by the Phoenicians too. 2. In the 6th century AD, Tunis ''was'' more important than Carthage (and has been ever since.) User:Mustafaa 22:08, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC) "وبعد فتح قرطاج في 698 م أصبحت مدينة قريبة منها تسمى تونس أهم منها، وأخيرا رجع قرطاج آثار غير مسكون، يبنون بها سكان تونس بيوتهم." na the Feth (the arabic name for the invasion on the name of the islam) comed an other city near of it its name was tunisia more important than it (carthago of the romeins) ...User:Aziri 10:47, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC) ----- hey 'Zero' , if you want to protect the page ,you have to protect it with the works of ibn khaldun.User:Aziri 12:23, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC) At least on this article you have the excuse that the quote is vaguely relevant. Now maybe you could try and correct the translation yourself. - User:Mustafaa 18:10, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC) == Translation == Moved from Wikipedia:Translation into English: *Article: :de:Ibn Khaldun *Corresponding English-language article: Ibn Khaldun *Worth doing because: The German article—which is :de:Wikipedia:Exzellente Artikel—has a much better biography and summary of his works. * Originally Requested by: User:MirvUser talk:Mirv 02:06, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC) *Status: done. But could be checked for typos etc and English/Wiki-spelling of names, and also there seems to be (looking at some of the external links listed) some confusion/contradiction over parts of his middle life (all the intrigue, who and where) which somebody could check. User:Rd232 10:22, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC) *Other notes: ------------ ==The contadiction !== Moustapha, you wrote this: ::"One website - Salaam.co.uk (http://www.salaam.co.uk/knowledge/biography/viewentry.php?id=808) - claims, without giving any sources, that this ancestry was through his mother and that his father was "a native of Berber" (sic), although this contradicts Ibn Khaldun's own words, since he traces his genealogy back to Khaldun through his father's side: ::"Abd ar-Rahman ibn Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn al-Hasan ibn Muhammad ibn Jabir ibn Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Abd ar-Rahman ibn Khaldun. Of my genealogy back to Khaldun I recall only these ten, although there must have been more..." - (p. 2428, Al-Waraq (http://www.alwaraq.com/)'s edition)" I don't know what are his sources, but i don't know how the own words of ibn Khaldun contradicts the claim of "Salaam.co.uk". Can you explain that, please ?User:Akzennay 13:30, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC) Moustapha, you wrote this: ::In his autobiography Ibn Khaldun traces his descent back to the time of the Prophet Muhammad through an Arabic-Yemeni tribe from Hadhramaut, which came to Spain in the eighth century at the beginning of the Islamic conquest. In his own words: "And our ancestry is from Hadhramaut, from the Arabs of Yemen, via Wa'il ibn Hajar, from the best of the Arabs, well-known and respected." (p. 2429, Al-Waraq (http://www.alwaraq.com/)'s edition). Can you give the souce, please ? Because if he has really said that, then it would be nonsens to say he was Berber. ;) User:Akzennay 13:43, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC) How much more sourcing do you want than the page number and the website? You speak Arabic. Al-Waraq has the entire works of Ibn Khaldun online. Register on that site, find Tarikh Ibn Khaldun, and go to page number 2429. Do I need to spell it out any further, or do I have to ask someone to translate this into Dutch before you manage to understand it? - User:Mustafaa 02:47, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC) Just to make things easier, let me point out that I already quoted this in Arabic above: ونسبنا حضرموت، من عرب اليمن، إلى وائل بن حجر، من أقيال العرب، معروف وله صحبة - User:Mustafaa 03:02, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC) Now, I don't think this is the best manner to give any source, I asked for a source, not for a question, so I have never heard that Ibn Khaldun did considerd himself as Arab, if you can give any reliable source, then I will believe he was an Arab. Give me a source for that last quote, and then it's up. You also didn't give the explanation for wiche you called " the contradiction ", That auteur could be interested to know the reason with logical explanation. At last, I find it a wonder that you delited the quote about the Berbers. Is it not so nice ?User:Akzennay 11:02, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC) I gave you a source: p. 2429 of تاريخ ابن خلدون as found on alwaraq.com . It's Ibn Khaldun that I'm quoting, in case you didn't gather that. - User:Mustafaa 04:41, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) And if you want to post quotes, this is the wrong place. Try [http://en.wikiquote.org Wikiquotes]. - User:Mustafaa 04:43, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) But, since your command of English is apparently inadequate to understand the instructions I gave you above, I suggest you examine the following mirror of the site I cited: [http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:iWGgBw6vKIAJ:www.al-eman.com/islamlib/viewchp.asp%3FBID%3D163%26CID%3D252+%22%D9%85%D9%86+%D8%A3%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%84+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%8C+%D9%85%D8%B9%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%81+%D9%88%D9%84%D9%87+%D8%B5%D8%AD%D8%A8%D8%A9%22&hl=en] (http://www.al-eman.com/islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=163&CID=252). - User:Mustafaa 05:07, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::My thanks for the source, I didn't can find it. thus he was Arab. But I don't know why Taha hussien said he was berber "contrary to Taha Hussein's remark that Ibn Khaldun was a Berber,"[http://encyclopedia.lockergnome.com/s/b/Ibn_Khaldun], and I also don't understand why Dr. Chafik said that he was a Berber with the refference to the claim of Taha Hussein ([http://tawalt.com/monthly/33_shafeeq_b.pdf]P 123), And Enan [http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/knts.htm]. ( these questions aren't not to you) ::They mean most probably that he considerd himself as arab for ideological reasons (The caliph have to be Arab..., (according to the prophet of the muslims (or Arabs) "Mohamed" as example.(see: Ibn khaldun [http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:2aygeNOpB-QJ:www.al-eman.com/islamlib/viewchp.asp%3FBID%3D163%26CID%3D11+%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%86+%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%86+%D8%A3%D9%86%D9%85%D8%A7+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A6%D9%85%D8%A9+%D9%85%D9%86+%D9%82%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%B4&hl=nl])), and the other comment is that he attacked the Arabs.(according to me) It's nonsens to say that he used the term "Arab" to refer to the bedouins. He even said that the Berbers and the arabs are bedouins, but he said in the same page that the cities who would be visited by the Arabs wouldn't still exist more[http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:QHfkgQxtOicJ:www.al-eman.com/islamlib/viewchp.asp%3FBID%3D163%26CID%3D24+%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%86+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%AF%D9%88&hl=nl]. But he said about the Berbers in another page that they are noble [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ibn_Khaldun&oldid=12463970#On_the_Berberse]. even Ibn khaldun didn't attacke the bedouins, he said about them that they are most original, honest..[http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:5Lm-uFu080IJ:www.matrouh.gov.eg/matrouhsite/ELBADEA.htm+%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%86+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%AF%D9%88&hl=nl]. But about the Arabs you can read this:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ibn_Khaldun&oldid=12463970#On_the_Arabs]. Thanks again.User:Akzennay 10:16, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) == ibn Khaldun al-Hadrami == Ibn Khaldun has called himself an Arab and traced himself to an Arab-Yemeni Tribe. And that can be read in his books, which can be fond in todays Library's. His books were translated into many languages, so that should not be a problem for non-arabic readers. This is an undeniable Fact! even if he was really a berber. If it helps to soften this racist war, there was a genetic study, which can be read in Scientific Journals, which says that Berbers and Yemenites are related. And this overlaps the berber oral traditions of originating from an ancient Yemeni people.Ibn khaldun
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