
Many historians consider the Huns (meaning "person" in Mongolian language) the first Mongolian and Turkic peoples mentioned in European history. They originated from lands between modern-day Siberia and Korea, then migrated progressively westward. References in Chinese sources to peoples called the Xiong-Nu (''Hsiung-nu'') go back to 1200 BC. Their Xiong (匈) rulers, first mentioned as a family in 1766 BC in the story of Chunwei and the fall of the Xia dynasty, may be the ancestors of the later "Huns" better-known to western scholars, though not all scholars agree on this. A Koreans legend asserts that an alliance of northern Altaic tribes under a "Huan" ruler from 7193 BC pre-dated the establishment of China. Ever since Joseph de Guignes in the 18th century identified the Huns with the ''(H)siung-nu'', the debate about the Asian ancestral origins has continued. Recent research has shown that none of the great confederations of steppe warriors was ethnically pure, and to make matters worse, many clans claimed the same name, based on prestige or fame of the name; or it was attributed to them by outsiders describing their common characteristics, believed place of origin, or reputation (to use a modern example, Germany in World War I were often called "Huns" by their opponents). Thus it is fruitless to speculate on the blood origins of the group; rather, the name "Huns" seems to have originally described a prestigious ruling group of steppe warriors. __TOC__ ==European Huns== A group known as the "European Huns" arrived in Europe ca. 375, led by Attila the Hun, and is considered, with little certainty, to be the western extension of the royal Xiong family centered around Karaganda. The establishment of the first Hun state marks one of the first well-documented appearances of the culture of horseback migration in history. These tribespeople achieved superiority over their rivals (most of them highly cultured) by their splendid state of military readiness, amazing mobility, and weapons like the Hun bow. Attila's European Huns, like the eastern Xiongnu, incorporated groups of unrelated tributary peoples. In the European case Alans, Gepids, Scrir, Rugians, Sarmatians, Slavs and especially Goths all united under the Hun family military elite. Attila's Huns eventually settled Hungary, a country that derives its name from them. The memory of the Hunnish invasion was transmitted orally among the Germanic tribes, and are an important component in the Old Norse Völsunga saga and the Old German Nibelungenlied, both portraying events in the Völkerwanderung, almost one millennia before their recordings. In both of these stories, king Attila (''Atli'' in Norse and ''Etzel'' in German) defeat the Frankish king Sigebert I (''Sigurðr'' or ''Siegfried'') and the Burgundian king Guntram (''Gunnar'' or ''Gunther''), but is subsequently assassinated by Queen Fredegund (''Gudrun'' or ''Kriemhild''), the sister of the latter and wife of the former. Recently, Hungarians who claim to be descendants of Attila have applied to be an officially recognized minority in Hungary. To do so, a group must be able to prove that they have lived in the country for more than 100 years, and get 1000 signatures on a petition. Modern day Huns in Hungary describe themselves as peaceful and gentle. They are far removed from the stereotype of the tribe that raped and pillaged its way across parts of Europe. According to Gyorgy Kisfaludy, who describes himself as the high priest of the Huns, there may be as many as 100,000 Huns in Hungary and beyond its borders. Some commentators have suggested that the move for minority status is just a ploy to receive financial grants. ==Indian ''Hunas''== The Huns also played an important part in early Indian history. :''Main articles: Hephthalites, Indo-Hephthalites'' ==Xiong-Nu Dynasty== :''Main article: Xiongnu'' The earliest reference in Chinese sources to a people called the ''Xiong-Nu (Hsiung-nu)'' dates to the early 12th century BC, in writings about the campaign by King Wuding (武丁 wǔdīng) of the Shang Dynasty against the Gui Fang 鬼方 (guǐfāng) tribe, regarded as a name of one of the Huns' vassal Xiongnu tribes. Some vague archaeology finds support this account, but await verification. Bronze inscriptions, and oracular turtle-back bones used in sacrificial worship, prove the historical existence of the campaign, but the Gui Fang did not necessarily equate with the core Hun clan ''per se''. Many scholars identify the Xiong Nu Xiong with the Huns, because of similar descriptions of their appearance and living habits. Other scholars, confusing the Xiong with their Xiongnu serf and vassal tribes, find differences. Still others argue that any common appearance and habits also appear among various other tribes residing on the Mongolian steppes, and are not identifying characteristics specific to the Xiong and the Huns. Nevertheless, all agree that the two peoples shared aspects that are more than a coincidence. With the exception of the 43-118 "North-South" feud, the Hun dynasty survived as a fairly tight-knit political power (sociology) until the 4th century, when the Xiongnu tribes decisively threw off the yoke of the Xiong dynasty. Whether increased squabbling within the Xiong dynasty caused their subjects to lose faith in them, or some other cause occurred, Hun unity came to an end. The rock was shattered, and clans claiming the Hun name (''Hunnoi, Chionites, Choni, Xiong'', etc.) dispersed as nothing more than piratical raiding bands. They appear to the south in Iran (the Xiyon camel tribes – Chionites – in AD 320, also known as Red Huns), while another portion remained east in China (the Xiong deer people); and finally, in one last brilliant flare, to the west in Russia (the Hun horse tribes in AD 360). The Hua managed to succeed to the Hun legacy in a campaign that spread from Bactria to Europe. After the failure of Xiong's Zhou county, the influence of the Hua dragon tribe started to expand. The influence of the northern deer-people retreated north up the Yenisei, as the Hua chased a western portion of the ''Hunnoi'' (''Alchon/Alchoni'', often called "White Huns" and confused with Hephthalites) into what is now Uzbekistan in the late 4th century; meanwhile the easternmost branch somewhat later founded the Xiong's last eastern dynasty, Xia (407-431). The colour names of the European, Persian, Bactrian and Chinese Hun tribes may have had something to do with their flank designations. Though apparently fleeing China from the Hua in the mid-4th century, the Huns' Alchon component is later recorded as uniting with them (Varkun) against the westernmost branch. By 460 the Hua had begun to take over Central Eurasia. The Yuezhi's Hephthalite family had become their ruling clan in Xinjiang by 507, and sometime during Sarosios' rule (507-531) the Hua, now a unit with the Choni, left under his father to conquer the Hunnic remnants in the West, leaving their Hephthalite brethren to fend off Juan Juan advances alone, and relocate their seat of power with the Indian branch. After this, the Huns as a power unit disappear from history, though certain nations and noble families of Turanian origin continued to carry variations of the name into the present. For more information on the formation of the eastern Huns' Xiongnu empire see also: Wu Hu. == List of Important Hun Rulers (''Tengrikut/Tangriqut/Shanyu/TarKhaan'') == :''This list is incomplete and needs correction'' === 1st Dynasty === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | c. 1800-1766 BC || Chungvi / Chunwei / Sunni mythology places |- | ? - 270? BC || Ta |- | 270 - 240? || Tangriqut? |- | 240 - 209 || 頭曼 (Tumen / Tu-Man Tengriqut) |- | 209 - 174 || Mo-Tun / Mao-Tun / Batur Tengriqut / 冒顿 |- | 174 - 161 || Ki-Ok / Kokkhan / 老上 |- | 161 - 126 || Chun-Chin / Kunkhan / 軍臣 |- | 126 - 114 || I-Tsin-Xien / El'chishye / 伊稚邪 |- | 114 - 105 || Wu-Wey / Uvey / 烏維 |- | 105 - 102/1 || Wu-Shi-Lu-Ir / Uyshilar / 烏師盧 |- | 102/1 - 101/0 || Zhou-Li-Hu / Kulighu / (口句)黎湖 |} === 2nd dynasty (Name unknown) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 101/0 - 96 || Chu-Di-Hu / Qutighu / 且提侯 |- | 96 || ''Possible unknown ruler'' |- | 96 - 85 || Hu-Lu-Ku / Hulugu / 狐鹿姑 |} === 3rd dynasty === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 85 - 68 || Huandi / Chuangdi / 壺衍提 |- | 68 - 60 || Hsu-Lu and Chuan-Chou / Shuluy Qanghuy / 虛閭權渠 |- | 60 - 58 || Uyanquti / 握衍(月句)提 |- | 58 - 31 || Ho-Han-Yeh / Khukhenye I / 呼韓邪, ''opposed by:''
{| align="center" | Bosiuytang-Zhuki (West)
Huge (Northwest)
Cheli (Southwest)
Uji (Northwest) | 58 - 56
58 - 57
58 - 56
58 - 57 |- | Zhunzhen (West)
Zhizhi-Guduhu (East) | 56 - 54
55 - 47 |} |- | 31 - 20 || Fu-Chu-Ley-Ju-Di / Pozhulonuti / 復株累若提 |- | 20 - 12 || Su-Xie-Ju-Di / Shuzhunoti / 搜諧若提 |- | 12 - 8 || Che-Ya-Ju-Di/Qiyanoti/車牙若提 ''opposed by...'' :Ulunoti / 烏累若提 11 - 10 |- | 8 BC - AD 13 || Wu-Zhou-Liu-Ju-Di / Uchilonoti / 烏珠留若提 |} === 4th (The Split) dynasty === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 13 - 18 || Wu-Ley-Ju-Di / Ulunoti / 烏累若提 (restored) |- | 18 - 46 || HuTuIrShiTaoGaoJuDi / GhuduarshiDavganoti / 呼都而尸道皋若提 ''opposed by...''
{| align="center" | Xiuybudan || 18 - 19 |- | Udatqu || 21 - 46 |} |- | 46 || Wu-Ta-Ti-Ho 烏達提侯 |- | 46 - 48 || Pu-Nu / Panu / 蒲奴 |} === North South Feud === From 48, the Hsiung-Nu began a North-South feud lasting until 98. Rulers of the Northern Xiongnu: {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 48 - 83 || Pu-Nu / Panu / 蒲奴 |- | 83 - 84 || Sanmolo Otzi / San-Mu-Lu-Tzi |- | 84 - 89 || Ulugh / Yu-Liu |- | 89 - 91/3 || Yu-Chou-Chien :''91: The ''Xionu / Xiuno / Hunnoi'' first appeared in the west near the Caspian Sea as a result of 班超 PanChao's campaign.'' |- | 91-93 || El'tekin |- | 93-98 || Panghu (?Finghay?) |- | 98-118 || Finghay (united North & South) ''opposed'' WanSiJuTi |} Rulers of the Southern Xiongnu: {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 48-56/55 || Hu-Han-Sie-Di / Khukhenye II / 呼韓邪 (第二) |- | 55/56-56/57 || Chiu-Fu-Yu-Di / Chupunoti / 丘浮尤提 |- | 56/57-59 || I-Fa-Yu-Di / Ilgha Uluti / 伊伐於慮提 |- | 59-63 || XienTungShiChouTi / ShtongsiSuyghuti / 醢僮尸逐侯提 |- | 63 || Kuchi Qilindi / 丘除車林提 |- | 63-85 || HuYehShihChouHuTi / GhushiShisu Quti / 湖邪尸逐侯提 |- | 85-88 || I-Tu-Yi-Lu / Iltu Uluti / 伊屠於閭提 |- | 88-93 || Xiu-Lan-Shi-Hu-Di / Shulan Shisu Quti / 休蘭尸逐侯提 |- | 93-94 || An-Gao / Arqu / 安國 |- | 94-98 || TindushsuQuti / TingTuShiJuHuTi / 亭獨尸逐侯提 ''deposed by...'' |- | 98-118 || Finghey (Panghu?) ''opposed by...'' :Wanchi Shisu Quti / Wan-Si-Ju-Ti / 萬氏尸逐侯提 from 98CE |} Hereafter, the Western/Northern ''tangriquts'' are no more, and the Eastern ''Tangriquts'' take over the whole empire. Wanchi Shisu Quti inherited Finghey's united empire in 118, but it was never what it used to be. Reunited Xiongnu {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 118-124 || Wanchi Shisu Quti / Wan-Si-Ju-Ti / 萬氏尸逐侯提 |- | 124-127/128 || Wu-Chi-Hu-Shi-Jo / Uzhqushsu Quti / 烏稽侯尸逐提 |- | 127/128-140/142 || Chu-Chi-Ju-Shi-Ju-Ju-Chin / Kutino Shisu Quti / 去特若尸逐就 |- | 140 - 143 || Chu-Xiu |} Some sources indicate that in 140 AD, after Kutino Shisu Quti committed suicide, a ''Tengriqut'' was not elected and the Hun throne remained vacant until 143 AD. === 5th dynasty (Name missing) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 143-147 || Hu-Lan-Ju-Shi-Ju-Ju-Chin / Ghoranno Shisu Quti / 呼蘭若尸逐就 |} === 6th dynasty (Name missing) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 147-172/177 || I-Ling-Shi-Chou-Chin / Illin Shisu Quti / 伊陵若尸逐就 |- | 172-177/178 || Utno Shisu Quti / 屠特若尸逐就 |} === 7th dynasty (name missing) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 177/178-179 || Hu-Ching / Ghuzhin / 呼徵 |} === 8th dynasty (name missing) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 179-188 || Chiang-Chu / Qanquy / 羌渠 |- | 188-195 || Di-Chi-Shi-Chou-Hu / Qizi Shisu Quti / 特至尸逐侯 |- | 195-215/6 || Hu-Chou-Chuan / Ghochuqan / 呼廚泉 |- | 215-290 || ''Xiongnu partitioned into 5 local tribes'' |- | 290 || ''Xiongnu reunified'' |} === 9th dynasty (Bei Han 北漢) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 290 || Liu Yuan-Hai (刘元海) ''or'' Liu Yuan (劉淵) |- | 304-309 || Beihan |- | 309-310 || Liu He (刘和) |- | 310-318 || Liu Tsung (劉聰) |- | 318 || Liu Ts'an (劉粲) |} === 10th Dynasty === Bei Han is known from 319 as "Former Zhao". During this dynasty, Xiyonites/Chionites or "Red Huns" start to harry Persia. The sovereignty of Han (sixteen kingdoms) and Former Zhao was collectively known as the Han Zhao. {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 318-329 || Liu Yao (劉曜) ''opposed by...'' |} === 11th Dynasty Later Zhao === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 319-333 || Gao Zu (高祖) |- | 333-334 || Hai Yang Wang (海陽王) |- | 334-349 || Tai Zu (太祖) |- | 349 || Shi Shi (石世) |- | 349 || Shi Zun (石遵) |- | 349-350 || Shih Jian (石鑒) |- | 350 || Shih Zhi (石祗) |- | 350-352 || Ran Min (冉閔) ''or'' Shi Min (石閔) |} === 12th Dynasty (Name ?Kama?) === The Hephthalites divided the Huns, and drove most of the remaining Huns westward out of China during their expansion. Kama was a legendary ancestor-King, mentioned in Eastern Hunnic sources, particularly among those who formed the Altyn Oba Horde. There is no one among the Hsiung rulers whose name sounds much like "Kama Tarkhan", but if he existed, he might have been the otherwise unnamed chief who took the Huns westward into the Ukraine steppes. He may have been the ruler of ''Alchoni'' who pushed the Kidarite Huns into India. His realm may therefore have spread from the Ukraine to Bactria. The last remnants of the Huns east of the Hua in China managed to raise their heads again from 407–431 as the Hun Xia dynasty, before coming under the Juan Juan. They (the Deer) later absorbed a Turkic (Blue Wolf) influence and later emerged as the Mongols. Interestingly, some Hunnic vocabulary documented by the Chinese still occurs in Japanese, while Hungarian language allegedly has some words in common with Xia. {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 352-? || Kama Tarkhan |- | fl. ?-370 || Balamber |- | fl. 370's-380s || Alypbi |- | c. 390 ?-c. 411 || Uldin ''(Khan of the Western Huns)'' |- | ? -412 || Donatus ''(Khan of the Eastern Black Sea Huns)'' |- | c. 411 || Charaton |- | ? - ? || Octar |- | fl. 432 || Ruga |- | c. 437-c. 444 || Bleda ''with...'' |- | c. 437-453 || Attila the Hun (Idil) |- | 453-c. 455 || Ellac |- | fl. c. 457 || Tuldila |- | ?-469 || Dengizich ''with...'' |- | ?- < 469 || Hernach |- | fl. late 5thC. || Tingiz ''with...'' |- | fl. late 5thC. || Belkermak |- | fl. late 490s || Djurash |- | fl. early 500s || Tatra |- | ? || Boyan Chelbir |- | fl. early500s - mid500s || Sandilkh ''(Khan of the Utrigurs).'' :''Division into Utrigur, east Don, and Kutrigur, west Don, hordes'' |- | fl. 560s || Zabergan ''(Khan of the Kutrigurs)'' |- | c. 565-c. 600 || Bayan 1 ''(of the Avars)'' |} === Onogur Dynasty === Chaotic conditions followed the rise of Avar power in Europe, and the time of the Huns came to a close. Whether the Onoghur were truly a Hun, Bolgar, or proto-Magyar, rather than an Avar reign, remains a matter of debate. However, it is from the name "Hun" that the English name for ''Magyarország'', Hungary, derives, allowing some space for their inclusion in the list of Hun Dynasties. == Germany == On July 27, 1901, during the Boxer Rebellion in China, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany gave the order to "make the name 'German' remembered in China for a thousand years, so that no Chinaman will ever again dare to even squint at a German". This speech, wherein Wilhelm invoked the memory of the 5th century Huns, coupled with the Pickelhaube or spiked helmet worn by German forces until 1916, that was reminiscent of ancient Hun (and Hungarian) helmets, gave rise to the later derogatory English usage of the latter term for their German enemy during World War I. This usage was reinforced by Allied propaganda throughout the war, prompting hatred of the Germans by invoking the idea that they were brutal savages. ==See also== *Hunnic language ==Further reading== * J. Otto Mänchen-Helfen (ed. Max Knight): ''The World of the Huns: Studies in Their History and Culture'' (Berkeley, University of California Press, 1973) * J. Otto Mänchen-Helfen: ''Huns and Hsiung-Nu'' (published in ''Byzantion'', vol. XVII, 1944-45, pp. 222-243) * J. Otto Mänchen-Helfen: ''The Legend of the Origin of the Huns'' (published in ''Byzantion'', vol. XVII, 1944-45, pp. 244-251) * E. A. Thompson: ''A History of Attila and the Huns'' (London, Oxford University Press, 1948) Ancient peoples of China Ancient peoples History of China Late Antiquity Turkic peoples Ancient Roman enemies and allies Huns History of Hungary
''Establishment of the first Hun state is also the first appearance of the culture of horseback migration in history.'' Mounted nomads had dominated the steppe since at least the appearance of the Scythian tribes. Don't they count for something? ------ As far as I know the story of Scythians go back to only 7th and 8th century BC. So, Huns seem to be a little bit older. On the other hand, my initiation date for Huns (1400 BC) is highly disputable and indeed they became a significant power only after the 2nd century BC. Anyway, probably even :Sumerians were a nomadic, horse-back culture who took their origins from Persian, Indian or maybe from Altaic tribes (for their language have some striking similarities with Altaic languages). So, I would better change this statement. I am planning to go on working this article (hopefully) in the future with some friendly help User:ErdemTuzun. I would be very surprised if any relationship between Sumerian and Altaic speech was more than coincidental - as far as I know no proposal for a relationship between Sumerian and any other language has gained general acceptance. But that is neither here nor there. Regarding horses, the Sumerians were definitely not a horse-back culture since horses had yet to be domesticated at the time (they used oxen and onagers instead). I don't think that horses were ever used as mounts until the iron age. In short, antiquity of the Huns, whatever that may be, is not the same as antiquity of the Huns as a mounted group and I don't think the transition could have possibly taken place before around the time of the Scythians anyways. ------ You seem to be correct about the Scythians but probably the first mounted horses were used for warfare long before than we both presume: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=115394&tocid=10301#10301.toc User:ErdemTuzun --------------- I just came across this horse/Talk . The Sumerians did have four -wheel chariots drawn by onagers / asses. These asses looked like ponies and did not look like donkeys. They are shown on the "Standard of Ur" and it seem they were light colored. (Asen ,asier were nature 'god's of Germanic people . As was also the name of Roman money or coins .) user:H.J. ---------- Your composition of five barbarians (Wu hu): Xiongnu, Hu, Tartars, Mongols and Turkics) was highly disputable. Actually I cannot clearly find out your exact composition so I prwsume the above was yours. My questions are as follows: 1) The term Xiongnu or Hiung-nu was never used until 2/3 century B.C. (the establishment of Qin Dynasty) :Your paragraph partially explained by saying they were under various names (xian3 yun3) which may be regarded as partial answer to my question.
2) Mongols did not ever appear as a small group of tribes until early 9th century A.D. So your date of "5 barabrians occupation of China" was not even close.
Even if you changed to 9th century, the Mongols was still too weak to challenge Tang's authority of Northern China at the time.
3) Please explain more about Tartars and Turkics. Your usage of the words was too vague. What tribes of the Tartars and/or Turkics invaded China at your timing of invasion? Your arguments were too weak.
4) If you really meant that the Huns inhabited northeastern China, presumably Manchuria, and Mongolia from 1000 BC to 6th cen. A.D., you was certainly wrong.
:a) No Huns or any tribes with Hunnic blood was inhabiting the area since 2nd cen. A.d.
Either they moved out (like N. Xiongnu) or migrated south into Northern China (like S. Xiongnu). :b) Manchuria was the motherland of Xianbei, Wuhuan and other tribes that could be considered as nominal ancestors of Manchus.
Xiongnu, only being recognized as the master of the steppes, never inhabited areas occupied by Xianpei and fellow tribes. 5) Answer to ''Establishment of the first Hun state is also the first appearance of the culture of horseback migration in history.''. I agreed that Sumerians never were a horse-riding civilization; however some researches I have done showed that the first Hun state was not the first horseback state either. The argument greatly depends on whether you considered Attila's state as the first Hun state. If you can define it more concisely, I may be able to help you. In other words, I need your timing of your Hunnic state.
6) Even before 6th century the term Hu2 already meant non-Hunnic "barbarian tribes".
7) Seems like you interpreted Hu as barbarians but I can prove to you that such an interpretation is wrong.
I don't want to be mean or anything but reading your paragraph provoked many second-guesses. I also don't mind helping you out on this article. Personally I don't like the word "Mongolian" since it has been abused to stand for all tribes that inhabit the steppes in today Mongolia, no matter how close or loose they are related (like ancestors, descendents, by marriage, offshoot or no relationship at all) to the "true" Mongolian who ravaged Europe in early 13 century. user:Ktsquare :If you know things are wrong, please fix them. That's the Wiki way. I agree that we need better terminology for Mongol peoples at different times (including the Golden Horde), modern Mongolia, the region (as distinct from the nation-state)... but I don't have a good suggestion. I came to the talk page for one small point, which is that the link being called "traditional Hungarian history" has "controve.htm" as the filename. This suggests that the claim is nothing like a consensus. User:Vicki Rosenzweig ---- Can anyone with knowledge please please put in the Chinese characters in brackets () next to the reconstructed names of the Hun rulers in place of the transliterations. Kaz 04:18, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC) :I would sugguest moving your Hunnic rulers from "9th dynasty" to "11th dynasty" into an independent article. I planned to write articles for each of the Sixteen Kingdoms after finishing up Wu Hu but I would start an article as soon as your have already provided the rulers' list. Wu Hu article keep requiring more, if not way too time-consuming, researches on my part, making it almost impossible to finish singlehandedly. :) User:Ktsquare 04:24, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC) ---- Wow, this page is really hard to read. My kingdom for a copyeditor! 19:18, 27 Dec 2003 Puffy jacket I think that Huns where ancestors of Mongolia. Huns Mongolian name is Hunnu. First unified king was Modun shanyu son of the Tumen shanyu. Mongolian historians believe that Mongolian land has several nomadic kingdoms. 1st Hunnu, 2nd Siyanbi, 3rd Toba and Muyun, 4th Nirun (Avar), 5th Tureg (Turk), 6th Uigar, 7th Hitan (Liao dynasty), 8th Great Mongolia. Hunnu, Siyanbi, Toba, Muyun were ancestors of Mongolians and Nirun, Hitans were true Mongolians. Nirun, Hitans used same language, tradition lake Mongolian. G.Ganbat --- I know I saw a paper which was looking at some Xiong-Nu terms documented in Chinese sources which were easily explained through Japanese. I can only remember Shanyu = Tenno and Liu = Ryu (dragon) off the top of my head. Maybe someone knows which paper this was and can put something about this in the page.User:Zestauferov 03:48, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC) ---- == Germany == Just a question: As I recall, the term Hun for Germans doesn't derive directly from the people, but from a speech Wilhelm II. made in the context of the Boxer Rebellion. Shouldn't that be cleared up? User:Io 14:52, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC) :I agee that something needs to be added as to why the germans were refered to as Huns, especially during WWI, because it just looks like an ommission here, and I do not know much about why, though I will add a bit from a different page.User:Say1988 01:23, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC) ---- The following is remooved from teh article Turkic peoples where it did not really belong. I have not read this artilce to see whther there is anything useful in this addition but will leave this to you to sift ''HUNSThe Huns, whose origins go back to 12th century BCE, are considered the first Turks by scholars. In ancient Chinese sources they were referred to as "Hsiung-Nu" and as the "colored-eyed" people. The Huns are famous for four empires which they established:1) The Great Hun Empire which was founded by Mete (Bagatir) in 204 B.C. and which covered an area which at the north was Siberia, to the south Tibet and Kashmir, to the east the Pacific Ocean and to the west the Caspian Sea. 2) The Western Hun Empire which was founded by Panu in 48 A.D. and covered the area of central Asia.3) The European Hun Empire which was founded by four brothers by the names of Muncuk, Oktar, Rua and Aybars. This empire covered what is southern Russia, Romania, Northern Yugoslavia, Hungary, Austria, Czech republic, southern & central Germany and the area from eastern France to the Ural mountains; from northern Hungary to the Byzantine Empire.4) The White Hun Empire which was founded in 420 A.D. by Aksuvar. This empire covered most of Turkistan (central Asia) as well as parts of northern India and also Afghanistan. Perhaps the most famous of Hun rulers, Attila, who was called the "scourge of God" by the Romans, was King and General of the Hun empire from A.D. 433 to 453.'' User:Refdoc 23:18, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC) Stw! Thanks for sorting out the mess!User:Zestauferov 13:11, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC) == Huns and Xiongnu == The anonymous idiot who keeps vandalizing this page has raised a valid point, though in what is possibly the most obnoxious manner possible: The connection between the Huns of European history and the Xiongnu of Chinese history isn't, to my knowledge (which is mostly of English, with a bit of French, scholarship), as concrete as this article makes it out to be. Perhaps much of this article (including the rather dubious lists of rulers) ought to be moved off to Xiongnu and this article should be refocused on the European Huns? Or should both be moved into separate articles (European Huns and Xiongnu) and this page converted into a disambiguation between the two, and perhaps the Hephthalites as well (since they're also known as the ''White Huns'')? In either case, this article definitely needs a fuller exploration of the scholarship on the relation between the various groups called ''Huns''. —User:MirvUser talk:MirvSpecial:Emailuser/Mirv 23:46, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC) == I SPEAK == There is an increasing tendency amongst china-centrists to link everything to china and ancient chinese civilizations. My first modification was not offensive. But since it got reverted back, wrongly, i decided that whoever did it is gay and i should devise more effective ways of stating my point. Hence, the "obnoxious manner". However, since you did acknowledge that my point is valid, I will stop vandalizing the page. I will also write an article on the true history of Huns and their tribal and royal lineage(s). Lastly, I got banned 2 times while editing this article. But it was not effective at all!! because my IP address seems to change every now and then. I just don't know how the fuck it happens. Perhaps the tooth fairy comes by and changes it??? Re: ''There is an increasing tendency amongst china-centrists to link everything to china and ancient chinese civilizations. '' :As far as I remember, the theory that the Huns and Xiongnu were connected was first posed over 200 years ago, and (again, if I remember correctly) it was posed by a French scholar. Besides which, the Xiongnu weren't Chinese; they were one of the numerous barbarian tribes which lived beyond the northern and northwestern frontiers. In any event. . . just remember to Wikipedia:Cite sources; I'll be watching eagerly, as I find this subject very interesting. —User:MirvUser talk:MirvSpecial:Emailuser/Mirv 00:16, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Ancient peoples of China Ancient peoples History of China Late Antiquity Turkic peoples Ancient Roman enemies and allies
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
Words begining with Huns:
Huns
Huns
Huns
Hunsecker's_Mill_Covered_Bridge
Hunsel
Hunslet
Hunslet_50550_Class
Hunslet_Class_50550
Hunslet_Engine_Co.
Hunslet_Engine_Company
Hunslet_locomotives
Hunsruck
Hunsrueck
Hunsrück
Hunsrückisch
Hunstanton
Hunstanton
Hunstanworth
Huns
Many historians consider the Huns (meaning "person" in Mongolian language) the first Mongolian and Turkic peoples mentioned in European history. They originated from lands between modern-day Siberia and Korea, then migrated progressively westward. References in Chinese sources to peoples called the Xiong-Nu (''Hsiung-nu'') go back to 1200 BC. Their Xiong (匈) rulers, first mentioned as a family in 1766 BC in the story of Chunwei and the fall of the Xia dynasty, may be the ancestors of the later "Huns" better-known to western scholars, though not all scholars agree on this. A Koreans legend asserts that an alliance of northern Altaic tribes under a "Huan" ruler from 7193 BC pre-dated the establishment of China. Ever since Joseph de Guignes in the 18th century identified the Huns with the ''(H)siung-nu'', the debate about the Asian ancestral origins has continued. Recent research has shown that none of the great confederations of steppe warriors was ethnically pure, and to make matters worse, many clans claimed the same name, based on prestige or fame of the name; or it was attributed to them by outsiders describing their common characteristics, believed place of origin, or reputation (to use a modern example, Germany in World War I were often called "Huns" by their opponents). Thus it is fruitless to speculate on the blood origins of the group; rather, the name "Huns" seems to have originally described a prestigious ruling group of steppe warriors. __TOC__ ==European Huns== A group known as the "European Huns" arrived in Europe ca. 375, led by Attila the Hun, and is considered, with little certainty, to be the western extension of the royal Xiong family centered around Karaganda. The establishment of the first Hun state marks one of the first well-documented appearances of the culture of horseback migration in history. These tribespeople achieved superiority over their rivals (most of them highly cultured) by their splendid state of military readiness, amazing mobility, and weapons like the Hun bow. Attila's European Huns, like the eastern Xiongnu, incorporated groups of unrelated tributary peoples. In the European case Alans, Gepids, Scrir, Rugians, Sarmatians, Slavs and especially Goths all united under the Hun family military elite. Attila's Huns eventually settled Hungary, a country that derives its name from them. The memory of the Hunnish invasion was transmitted orally among the Germanic tribes, and are an important component in the Old Norse Völsunga saga and the Old German Nibelungenlied, both portraying events in the Völkerwanderung, almost one millennia before their recordings. In both of these stories, king Attila (''Atli'' in Norse and ''Etzel'' in German) defeat the Frankish king Sigebert I (''Sigurðr'' or ''Siegfried'') and the Burgundian king Guntram (''Gunnar'' or ''Gunther''), but is subsequently assassinated by Queen Fredegund (''Gudrun'' or ''Kriemhild''), the sister of the latter and wife of the former. Recently, Hungarians who claim to be descendants of Attila have applied to be an officially recognized minority in Hungary. To do so, a group must be able to prove that they have lived in the country for more than 100 years, and get 1000 signatures on a petition. Modern day Huns in Hungary describe themselves as peaceful and gentle. They are far removed from the stereotype of the tribe that raped and pillaged its way across parts of Europe. According to Gyorgy Kisfaludy, who describes himself as the high priest of the Huns, there may be as many as 100,000 Huns in Hungary and beyond its borders. Some commentators have suggested that the move for minority status is just a ploy to receive financial grants. ==Indian ''Hunas''== The Huns also played an important part in early Indian history. :''Main articles: Hephthalites, Indo-Hephthalites'' ==Xiong-Nu Dynasty== :''Main article: Xiongnu'' The earliest reference in Chinese sources to a people called the ''Xiong-Nu (Hsiung-nu)'' dates to the early 12th century BC, in writings about the campaign by King Wuding (武丁 wǔdīng) of the Shang Dynasty against the Gui Fang 鬼方 (guǐfāng) tribe, regarded as a name of one of the Huns' vassal Xiongnu tribes. Some vague archaeology finds support this account, but await verification. Bronze inscriptions, and oracular turtle-back bones used in sacrificial worship, prove the historical existence of the campaign, but the Gui Fang did not necessarily equate with the core Hun clan ''per se''. Many scholars identify the Xiong Nu Xiong with the Huns, because of similar descriptions of their appearance and living habits. Other scholars, confusing the Xiong with their Xiongnu serf and vassal tribes, find differences. Still others argue that any common appearance and habits also appear among various other tribes residing on the Mongolian steppes, and are not identifying characteristics specific to the Xiong and the Huns. Nevertheless, all agree that the two peoples shared aspects that are more than a coincidence. With the exception of the 43-118 "North-South" feud, the Hun dynasty survived as a fairly tight-knit political power (sociology) until the 4th century, when the Xiongnu tribes decisively threw off the yoke of the Xiong dynasty. Whether increased squabbling within the Xiong dynasty caused their subjects to lose faith in them, or some other cause occurred, Hun unity came to an end. The rock was shattered, and clans claiming the Hun name (''Hunnoi, Chionites, Choni, Xiong'', etc.) dispersed as nothing more than piratical raiding bands. They appear to the south in Iran (the Xiyon camel tribes – Chionites – in AD 320, also known as Red Huns), while another portion remained east in China (the Xiong deer people); and finally, in one last brilliant flare, to the west in Russia (the Hun horse tribes in AD 360). The Hua managed to succeed to the Hun legacy in a campaign that spread from Bactria to Europe. After the failure of Xiong's Zhou county, the influence of the Hua dragon tribe started to expand. The influence of the northern deer-people retreated north up the Yenisei, as the Hua chased a western portion of the ''Hunnoi'' (''Alchon/Alchoni'', often called "White Huns" and confused with Hephthalites) into what is now Uzbekistan in the late 4th century; meanwhile the easternmost branch somewhat later founded the Xiong's last eastern dynasty, Xia (407-431). The colour names of the European, Persian, Bactrian and Chinese Hun tribes may have had something to do with their flank designations. Though apparently fleeing China from the Hua in the mid-4th century, the Huns' Alchon component is later recorded as uniting with them (Varkun) against the westernmost branch. By 460 the Hua had begun to take over Central Eurasia. The Yuezhi's Hephthalite family had become their ruling clan in Xinjiang by 507, and sometime during Sarosios' rule (507-531) the Hua, now a unit with the Choni, left under his father to conquer the Hunnic remnants in the West, leaving their Hephthalite brethren to fend off Juan Juan advances alone, and relocate their seat of power with the Indian branch. After this, the Huns as a power unit disappear from history, though certain nations and noble families of Turanian origin continued to carry variations of the name into the present. For more information on the formation of the eastern Huns' Xiongnu empire see also: Wu Hu. == List of Important Hun Rulers (''Tengrikut/Tangriqut/Shanyu/TarKhaan'') == :''This list is incomplete and needs correction'' === 1st Dynasty === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | c. 1800-1766 BC || Chungvi / Chunwei / Sunni mythology places |- | ? - 270? BC || Ta |- | 270 - 240? || Tangriqut? |- | 240 - 209 || 頭曼 (Tumen / Tu-Man Tengriqut) |- | 209 - 174 || Mo-Tun / Mao-Tun / Batur Tengriqut / 冒顿 |- | 174 - 161 || Ki-Ok / Kokkhan / 老上 |- | 161 - 126 || Chun-Chin / Kunkhan / 軍臣 |- | 126 - 114 || I-Tsin-Xien / El'chishye / 伊稚邪 |- | 114 - 105 || Wu-Wey / Uvey / 烏維 |- | 105 - 102/1 || Wu-Shi-Lu-Ir / Uyshilar / 烏師盧 |- | 102/1 - 101/0 || Zhou-Li-Hu / Kulighu / (口句)黎湖 |} === 2nd dynasty (Name unknown) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 101/0 - 96 || Chu-Di-Hu / Qutighu / 且提侯 |- | 96 || ''Possible unknown ruler'' |- | 96 - 85 || Hu-Lu-Ku / Hulugu / 狐鹿姑 |} === 3rd dynasty === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 85 - 68 || Huandi / Chuangdi / 壺衍提 |- | 68 - 60 || Hsu-Lu and Chuan-Chou / Shuluy Qanghuy / 虛閭權渠 |- | 60 - 58 || Uyanquti / 握衍(月句)提 |- | 58 - 31 || Ho-Han-Yeh / Khukhenye I / 呼韓邪, ''opposed by:''
{| align="center" | Bosiuytang-Zhuki (West)
Huge (Northwest)
Cheli (Southwest)
Uji (Northwest) | 58 - 56
58 - 57
58 - 56
58 - 57 |- | Zhunzhen (West)
Zhizhi-Guduhu (East) | 56 - 54
55 - 47 |} |- | 31 - 20 || Fu-Chu-Ley-Ju-Di / Pozhulonuti / 復株累若提 |- | 20 - 12 || Su-Xie-Ju-Di / Shuzhunoti / 搜諧若提 |- | 12 - 8 || Che-Ya-Ju-Di/Qiyanoti/車牙若提 ''opposed by...'' :Ulunoti / 烏累若提 11 - 10 |- | 8 BC - AD 13 || Wu-Zhou-Liu-Ju-Di / Uchilonoti / 烏珠留若提 |} === 4th (The Split) dynasty === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 13 - 18 || Wu-Ley-Ju-Di / Ulunoti / 烏累若提 (restored) |- | 18 - 46 || HuTuIrShiTaoGaoJuDi / GhuduarshiDavganoti / 呼都而尸道皋若提 ''opposed by...''
{| align="center" | Xiuybudan || 18 - 19 |- | Udatqu || 21 - 46 |} |- | 46 || Wu-Ta-Ti-Ho 烏達提侯 |- | 46 - 48 || Pu-Nu / Panu / 蒲奴 |} === North South Feud === From 48, the Hsiung-Nu began a North-South feud lasting until 98. Rulers of the Northern Xiongnu: {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 48 - 83 || Pu-Nu / Panu / 蒲奴 |- | 83 - 84 || Sanmolo Otzi / San-Mu-Lu-Tzi |- | 84 - 89 || Ulugh / Yu-Liu |- | 89 - 91/3 || Yu-Chou-Chien :''91: The ''Xionu / Xiuno / Hunnoi'' first appeared in the west near the Caspian Sea as a result of 班超 PanChao's campaign.'' |- | 91-93 || El'tekin |- | 93-98 || Panghu (?Finghay?) |- | 98-118 || Finghay (united North & South) ''opposed'' WanSiJuTi |} Rulers of the Southern Xiongnu: {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 48-56/55 || Hu-Han-Sie-Di / Khukhenye II / 呼韓邪 (第二) |- | 55/56-56/57 || Chiu-Fu-Yu-Di / Chupunoti / 丘浮尤提 |- | 56/57-59 || I-Fa-Yu-Di / Ilgha Uluti / 伊伐於慮提 |- | 59-63 || XienTungShiChouTi / ShtongsiSuyghuti / 醢僮尸逐侯提 |- | 63 || Kuchi Qilindi / 丘除車林提 |- | 63-85 || HuYehShihChouHuTi / GhushiShisu Quti / 湖邪尸逐侯提 |- | 85-88 || I-Tu-Yi-Lu / Iltu Uluti / 伊屠於閭提 |- | 88-93 || Xiu-Lan-Shi-Hu-Di / Shulan Shisu Quti / 休蘭尸逐侯提 |- | 93-94 || An-Gao / Arqu / 安國 |- | 94-98 || TindushsuQuti / TingTuShiJuHuTi / 亭獨尸逐侯提 ''deposed by...'' |- | 98-118 || Finghey (Panghu?) ''opposed by...'' :Wanchi Shisu Quti / Wan-Si-Ju-Ti / 萬氏尸逐侯提 from 98CE |} Hereafter, the Western/Northern ''tangriquts'' are no more, and the Eastern ''Tangriquts'' take over the whole empire. Wanchi Shisu Quti inherited Finghey's united empire in 118, but it was never what it used to be. Reunited Xiongnu {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 118-124 || Wanchi Shisu Quti / Wan-Si-Ju-Ti / 萬氏尸逐侯提 |- | 124-127/128 || Wu-Chi-Hu-Shi-Jo / Uzhqushsu Quti / 烏稽侯尸逐提 |- | 127/128-140/142 || Chu-Chi-Ju-Shi-Ju-Ju-Chin / Kutino Shisu Quti / 去特若尸逐就 |- | 140 - 143 || Chu-Xiu |} Some sources indicate that in 140 AD, after Kutino Shisu Quti committed suicide, a ''Tengriqut'' was not elected and the Hun throne remained vacant until 143 AD. === 5th dynasty (Name missing) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 143-147 || Hu-Lan-Ju-Shi-Ju-Ju-Chin / Ghoranno Shisu Quti / 呼蘭若尸逐就 |} === 6th dynasty (Name missing) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 147-172/177 || I-Ling-Shi-Chou-Chin / Illin Shisu Quti / 伊陵若尸逐就 |- | 172-177/178 || Utno Shisu Quti / 屠特若尸逐就 |} === 7th dynasty (name missing) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 177/178-179 || Hu-Ching / Ghuzhin / 呼徵 |} === 8th dynasty (name missing) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 179-188 || Chiang-Chu / Qanquy / 羌渠 |- | 188-195 || Di-Chi-Shi-Chou-Hu / Qizi Shisu Quti / 特至尸逐侯 |- | 195-215/6 || Hu-Chou-Chuan / Ghochuqan / 呼廚泉 |- | 215-290 || ''Xiongnu partitioned into 5 local tribes'' |- | 290 || ''Xiongnu reunified'' |} === 9th dynasty (Bei Han 北漢) === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 290 || Liu Yuan-Hai (刘元海) ''or'' Liu Yuan (劉淵) |- | 304-309 || Beihan |- | 309-310 || Liu He (刘和) |- | 310-318 || Liu Tsung (劉聰) |- | 318 || Liu Ts'an (劉粲) |} === 10th Dynasty === Bei Han is known from 319 as "Former Zhao". During this dynasty, Xiyonites/Chionites or "Red Huns" start to harry Persia. The sovereignty of Han (sixteen kingdoms) and Former Zhao was collectively known as the Han Zhao. {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 318-329 || Liu Yao (劉曜) ''opposed by...'' |} === 11th Dynasty Later Zhao === {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 319-333 || Gao Zu (高祖) |- | 333-334 || Hai Yang Wang (海陽王) |- | 334-349 || Tai Zu (太祖) |- | 349 || Shi Shi (石世) |- | 349 || Shi Zun (石遵) |- | 349-350 || Shih Jian (石鑒) |- | 350 || Shih Zhi (石祗) |- | 350-352 || Ran Min (冉閔) ''or'' Shi Min (石閔) |} === 12th Dynasty (Name ?Kama?) === The Hephthalites divided the Huns, and drove most of the remaining Huns westward out of China during their expansion. Kama was a legendary ancestor-King, mentioned in Eastern Hunnic sources, particularly among those who formed the Altyn Oba Horde. There is no one among the Hsiung rulers whose name sounds much like "Kama Tarkhan", but if he existed, he might have been the otherwise unnamed chief who took the Huns westward into the Ukraine steppes. He may have been the ruler of ''Alchoni'' who pushed the Kidarite Huns into India. His realm may therefore have spread from the Ukraine to Bactria. The last remnants of the Huns east of the Hua in China managed to raise their heads again from 407–431 as the Hun Xia dynasty, before coming under the Juan Juan. They (the Deer) later absorbed a Turkic (Blue Wolf) influence and later emerged as the Mongols. Interestingly, some Hunnic vocabulary documented by the Chinese still occurs in Japanese, while Hungarian language allegedly has some words in common with Xia. {| border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" | 352-? || Kama Tarkhan |- | fl. ?-370 || Balamber |- | fl. 370's-380s || Alypbi |- | c. 390 ?-c. 411 || Uldin ''(Khan of the Western Huns)'' |- | ? -412 || Donatus ''(Khan of the Eastern Black Sea Huns)'' |- | c. 411 || Charaton |- | ? - ? || Octar |- | fl. 432 || Ruga |- | c. 437-c. 444 || Bleda ''with...'' |- | c. 437-453 || Attila the Hun (Idil) |- | 453-c. 455 || Ellac |- | fl. c. 457 || Tuldila |- | ?-469 || Dengizich ''with...'' |- | ?- < 469 || Hernach |- | fl. late 5thC. || Tingiz ''with...'' |- | fl. late 5thC. || Belkermak |- | fl. late 490s || Djurash |- | fl. early 500s || Tatra |- | ? || Boyan Chelbir |- | fl. early500s - mid500s || Sandilkh ''(Khan of the Utrigurs).'' :''Division into Utrigur, east Don, and Kutrigur, west Don, hordes'' |- | fl. 560s || Zabergan ''(Khan of the Kutrigurs)'' |- | c. 565-c. 600 || Bayan 1 ''(of the Avars)'' |} === Onogur Dynasty === Chaotic conditions followed the rise of Avar power in Europe, and the time of the Huns came to a close. Whether the Onoghur were truly a Hun, Bolgar, or proto-Magyar, rather than an Avar reign, remains a matter of debate. However, it is from the name "Hun" that the English name for ''Magyarország'', Hungary, derives, allowing some space for their inclusion in the list of Hun Dynasties. == Germany == On July 27, 1901, during the Boxer Rebellion in China, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany gave the order to "make the name 'German' remembered in China for a thousand years, so that no Chinaman will ever again dare to even squint at a German". This speech, wherein Wilhelm invoked the memory of the 5th century Huns, coupled with the Pickelhaube or spiked helmet worn by German forces until 1916, that was reminiscent of ancient Hun (and Hungarian) helmets, gave rise to the later derogatory English usage of the latter term for their German enemy during World War I. This usage was reinforced by Allied propaganda throughout the war, prompting hatred of the Germans by invoking the idea that they were brutal savages. ==See also== *Hunnic language ==Further reading== * J. Otto Mänchen-Helfen (ed. Max Knight): ''The World of the Huns: Studies in Their History and Culture'' (Berkeley, University of California Press, 1973) * J. Otto Mänchen-Helfen: ''Huns and Hsiung-Nu'' (published in ''Byzantion'', vol. XVII, 1944-45, pp. 222-243) * J. Otto Mänchen-Helfen: ''The Legend of the Origin of the Huns'' (published in ''Byzantion'', vol. XVII, 1944-45, pp. 244-251) * E. A. Thompson: ''A History of Attila and the Huns'' (London, Oxford University Press, 1948) Ancient peoples of China Ancient peoples History of China Late Antiquity Turkic peoples Ancient Roman enemies and allies Huns History of Hungary
Huns
''Establishment of the first Hun state is also the first appearance of the culture of horseback migration in history.'' Mounted nomads had dominated the steppe since at least the appearance of the Scythian tribes. Don't they count for something? ------ As far as I know the story of Scythians go back to only 7th and 8th century BC. So, Huns seem to be a little bit older. On the other hand, my initiation date for Huns (1400 BC) is highly disputable and indeed they became a significant power only after the 2nd century BC. Anyway, probably even :Sumerians were a nomadic, horse-back culture who took their origins from Persian, Indian or maybe from Altaic tribes (for their language have some striking similarities with Altaic languages). So, I would better change this statement. I am planning to go on working this article (hopefully) in the future with some friendly help User:ErdemTuzun. I would be very surprised if any relationship between Sumerian and Altaic speech was more than coincidental - as far as I know no proposal for a relationship between Sumerian and any other language has gained general acceptance. But that is neither here nor there. Regarding horses, the Sumerians were definitely not a horse-back culture since horses had yet to be domesticated at the time (they used oxen and onagers instead). I don't think that horses were ever used as mounts until the iron age. In short, antiquity of the Huns, whatever that may be, is not the same as antiquity of the Huns as a mounted group and I don't think the transition could have possibly taken place before around the time of the Scythians anyways. ------ You seem to be correct about the Scythians but probably the first mounted horses were used for warfare long before than we both presume: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=115394&tocid=10301#10301.toc User:ErdemTuzun --------------- I just came across this horse/Talk . The Sumerians did have four -wheel chariots drawn by onagers / asses. These asses looked like ponies and did not look like donkeys. They are shown on the "Standard of Ur" and it seem they were light colored. (Asen ,asier were nature 'god's of Germanic people . As was also the name of Roman money or coins .) user:H.J. ---------- Your composition of five barbarians (Wu hu): Xiongnu, Hu, Tartars, Mongols and Turkics) was highly disputable. Actually I cannot clearly find out your exact composition so I prwsume the above was yours. My questions are as follows: 1) The term Xiongnu or Hiung-nu was never used until 2/3 century B.C. (the establishment of Qin Dynasty) :Your paragraph partially explained by saying they were under various names (xian3 yun3) which may be regarded as partial answer to my question.
2) Mongols did not ever appear as a small group of tribes until early 9th century A.D. So your date of "5 barabrians occupation of China" was not even close.
Even if you changed to 9th century, the Mongols was still too weak to challenge Tang's authority of Northern China at the time.
3) Please explain more about Tartars and Turkics. Your usage of the words was too vague. What tribes of the Tartars and/or Turkics invaded China at your timing of invasion? Your arguments were too weak.
4) If you really meant that the Huns inhabited northeastern China, presumably Manchuria, and Mongolia from 1000 BC to 6th cen. A.D., you was certainly wrong.
:a) No Huns or any tribes with Hunnic blood was inhabiting the area since 2nd cen. A.d.
Either they moved out (like N. Xiongnu) or migrated south into Northern China (like S. Xiongnu). :b) Manchuria was the motherland of Xianbei, Wuhuan and other tribes that could be considered as nominal ancestors of Manchus.
Xiongnu, only being recognized as the master of the steppes, never inhabited areas occupied by Xianpei and fellow tribes. 5) Answer to ''Establishment of the first Hun state is also the first appearance of the culture of horseback migration in history.''. I agreed that Sumerians never were a horse-riding civilization; however some researches I have done showed that the first Hun state was not the first horseback state either. The argument greatly depends on whether you considered Attila's state as the first Hun state. If you can define it more concisely, I may be able to help you. In other words, I need your timing of your Hunnic state.
6) Even before 6th century the term Hu2 already meant non-Hunnic "barbarian tribes".
7) Seems like you interpreted Hu as barbarians but I can prove to you that such an interpretation is wrong.
I don't want to be mean or anything but reading your paragraph provoked many second-guesses. I also don't mind helping you out on this article. Personally I don't like the word "Mongolian" since it has been abused to stand for all tribes that inhabit the steppes in today Mongolia, no matter how close or loose they are related (like ancestors, descendents, by marriage, offshoot or no relationship at all) to the "true" Mongolian who ravaged Europe in early 13 century. user:Ktsquare :If you know things are wrong, please fix them. That's the Wiki way. I agree that we need better terminology for Mongol peoples at different times (including the Golden Horde), modern Mongolia, the region (as distinct from the nation-state)... but I don't have a good suggestion. I came to the talk page for one small point, which is that the link being called "traditional Hungarian history" has "controve.htm" as the filename. This suggests that the claim is nothing like a consensus. User:Vicki Rosenzweig ---- Can anyone with knowledge please please put in the Chinese characters in brackets () next to the reconstructed names of the Hun rulers in place of the transliterations. Kaz 04:18, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC) :I would sugguest moving your Hunnic rulers from "9th dynasty" to "11th dynasty" into an independent article. I planned to write articles for each of the Sixteen Kingdoms after finishing up Wu Hu but I would start an article as soon as your have already provided the rulers' list. Wu Hu article keep requiring more, if not way too time-consuming, researches on my part, making it almost impossible to finish singlehandedly. :) User:Ktsquare 04:24, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC) ---- Wow, this page is really hard to read. My kingdom for a copyeditor! 19:18, 27 Dec 2003 Puffy jacket I think that Huns where ancestors of Mongolia. Huns Mongolian name is Hunnu. First unified king was Modun shanyu son of the Tumen shanyu. Mongolian historians believe that Mongolian land has several nomadic kingdoms. 1st Hunnu, 2nd Siyanbi, 3rd Toba and Muyun, 4th Nirun (Avar), 5th Tureg (Turk), 6th Uigar, 7th Hitan (Liao dynasty), 8th Great Mongolia. Hunnu, Siyanbi, Toba, Muyun were ancestors of Mongolians and Nirun, Hitans were true Mongolians. Nirun, Hitans used same language, tradition lake Mongolian. G.Ganbat --- I know I saw a paper which was looking at some Xiong-Nu terms documented in Chinese sources which were easily explained through Japanese. I can only remember Shanyu = Tenno and Liu = Ryu (dragon) off the top of my head. Maybe someone knows which paper this was and can put something about this in the page.User:Zestauferov 03:48, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC) ---- == Germany == Just a question: As I recall, the term Hun for Germans doesn't derive directly from the people, but from a speech Wilhelm II. made in the context of the Boxer Rebellion. Shouldn't that be cleared up? User:Io 14:52, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC) :I agee that something needs to be added as to why the germans were refered to as Huns, especially during WWI, because it just looks like an ommission here, and I do not know much about why, though I will add a bit from a different page.User:Say1988 01:23, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC) ---- The following is remooved from teh article Turkic peoples where it did not really belong. I have not read this artilce to see whther there is anything useful in this addition but will leave this to you to sift ''HUNSThe Huns, whose origins go back to 12th century BCE, are considered the first Turks by scholars. In ancient Chinese sources they were referred to as "Hsiung-Nu" and as the "colored-eyed" people. The Huns are famous for four empires which they established:1) The Great Hun Empire which was founded by Mete (Bagatir) in 204 B.C. and which covered an area which at the north was Siberia, to the south Tibet and Kashmir, to the east the Pacific Ocean and to the west the Caspian Sea. 2) The Western Hun Empire which was founded by Panu in 48 A.D. and covered the area of central Asia.3) The European Hun Empire which was founded by four brothers by the names of Muncuk, Oktar, Rua and Aybars. This empire covered what is southern Russia, Romania, Northern Yugoslavia, Hungary, Austria, Czech republic, southern & central Germany and the area from eastern France to the Ural mountains; from northern Hungary to the Byzantine Empire.4) The White Hun Empire which was founded in 420 A.D. by Aksuvar. This empire covered most of Turkistan (central Asia) as well as parts of northern India and also Afghanistan. Perhaps the most famous of Hun rulers, Attila, who was called the "scourge of God" by the Romans, was King and General of the Hun empire from A.D. 433 to 453.'' User:Refdoc 23:18, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC) Stw! Thanks for sorting out the mess!User:Zestauferov 13:11, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC) == Huns and Xiongnu == The anonymous idiot who keeps vandalizing this page has raised a valid point, though in what is possibly the most obnoxious manner possible: The connection between the Huns of European history and the Xiongnu of Chinese history isn't, to my knowledge (which is mostly of English, with a bit of French, scholarship), as concrete as this article makes it out to be. Perhaps much of this article (including the rather dubious lists of rulers) ought to be moved off to Xiongnu and this article should be refocused on the European Huns? Or should both be moved into separate articles (European Huns and Xiongnu) and this page converted into a disambiguation between the two, and perhaps the Hephthalites as well (since they're also known as the ''White Huns'')? In either case, this article definitely needs a fuller exploration of the scholarship on the relation between the various groups called ''Huns''. —User:MirvUser talk:MirvSpecial:Emailuser/Mirv 23:46, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC) == I SPEAK == There is an increasing tendency amongst china-centrists to link everything to china and ancient chinese civilizations. My first modification was not offensive. But since it got reverted back, wrongly, i decided that whoever did it is gay and i should devise more effective ways of stating my point. Hence, the "obnoxious manner". However, since you did acknowledge that my point is valid, I will stop vandalizing the page. I will also write an article on the true history of Huns and their tribal and royal lineage(s). Lastly, I got banned 2 times while editing this article. But it was not effective at all!! because my IP address seems to change every now and then. I just don't know how the fuck it happens. Perhaps the tooth fairy comes by and changes it??? Re: ''There is an increasing tendency amongst china-centrists to link everything to china and ancient chinese civilizations. '' :As far as I remember, the theory that the Huns and Xiongnu were connected was first posed over 200 years ago, and (again, if I remember correctly) it was posed by a French scholar. Besides which, the Xiongnu weren't Chinese; they were one of the numerous barbarian tribes which lived beyond the northern and northwestern frontiers. In any event. . . just remember to Wikipedia:Cite sources; I'll be watching eagerly, as I find this subject very interesting. —User:MirvUser talk:MirvSpecial:Emailuser/Mirv 00:16, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Huns
Ancient peoples of China Ancient peoples History of China Late Antiquity Turkic peoples Ancient Roman enemies and allies
See other meanings of words starting from letter:
H
HA | HB | HC | HD | HE | HF | HG | HI | HJ | HK | HL | HM | HN | HO | HP | HR | HS | HT | HU | HW | HX | HY | HZ |Words begining with Huns:
Huns
Huns
Huns
Hunsecker's_Mill_Covered_Bridge
Hunsel
Hunslet
Hunslet_50550_Class
Hunslet_Class_50550
Hunslet_Engine_Co.
Hunslet_Engine_Company
Hunslet_locomotives
Hunsruck
Hunsrueck
Hunsrück
Hunsrückisch
Hunstanton
Hunstanton
Hunstanworth
These materials are based on Wikipedia and licensed under the GNU FDL
YouTube.com videos better site than Turbo Tax 2007
