Geogre

User:Geogre/Talk archive 1 User:Geogre/Talk archive 2 User:Geogre/Talk archive 3 User:Geogre/Talk archive 4 User:Geogre/Talk archive 5 User:Geogre/Talk archive 6 User:Geogre/Talk archive 7 ''New Messages'' ==Imagism== Hi, I've expanded the article somewhat since Peer Review and would be grateful if you had time and inclination to run an eye over it before I go to WP:FAC. Thanks User:Filiocht | User talk:Filiocht 07:38, May 10, 2005 (UTC) :I tried, but db weirdness seemed to say that my changes had been made, but they didn't show up. Odd. If it looks different to you, then I did some proofing (more later). If it looks just the same, then we can blame the db. (No idea what drug the user below is taking or why I've been the beneficiary of his striking wit, but, well, that's why I have the special buttons to push.) User:Geogre 13:01, 10 May 2005 (UTC) ::Your improvements to the lead section are showing up fine, thanks for the work involved. Any more you do will be very welcome. When I rewrite an article bit-by-bit over a long period, I tend to become even more blind than usual to its faults. (Ah yes, that majic button has its uses.) User:Filiocht | User talk:Filiocht 13:12, May 10, 2005 (UTC) :I'm relieved (although I see you disagreed with some). I fully understand. With long articles, it's inevitable that flow of prose gets disrupted by stitching between sentences. The sutures always show, and we all get blind to them. I will get at the body after a while. I still haven't a clue why "Karatloz" has mistaken me for a male donkey, but he had vandalized The 3, so I gave him a light ban. The IP who keeps spinning out paranoid fantasies and childish taunts, on the other hand, is upset that he wasn't allowed to write one sentence substubs with impugnity. All who think they're substandard are not New Yorkers (wonder what he'd think if he found out that some people aren't even Americans!), and he then goes from there to call names -- fully in keeping with the articulateness that generated those articles. However, I'm not one to ban for personal attacks, though some do. If he vandalizes, I'll knock him out for a good while, but the rest is just sticks and stones weakly thrown. User:Geogre 23:51, 10 May 2005 (UTC) ::The DB was really playing up yesterday. I did not disagree with any of your edits; quite the opposite. My edits were actually pre yours. I see the history reflects this today. I've been much more active as an admin this week and expect it won't be long before my own talk page becomes the target of some high-level wit, too. User:Filiocht | User talk:Filiocht 07:33, May 11, 2005 (UTC) ==Ravings== You're a jackass. User:Karatloz 11:51, 10 May 2005 (UTC) :Enjoy your Wikipedia vacation. User:Geogre 13:01, 10 May 2005 (UTC) Hey, it's me Karatloz. That wasn't me that called you a jackass, it was my stupid friend. Thanks for noting that my contributions were worthwhile. Anyway, I was looking at my past contributions and it appears my account has been "hijacked" more than once. I'm not going to tell anyone my new password! User:Karatloz 16:38, 11 May 2005 (UTC) ==Solange== [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solange Maybe not], since the novel doesn't have an article, and in fact isn't even mentioned in Willy Kyrklund? Or maybe not at the top (though that is where I've seen a few of these dabs, I'm pretty sure)? In my world, this is a well-known novel, I was just listening to a good reading of it on the radio. Anyway, I'm unsure of the principle, please rv ad libitum. --User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 16:38, 13 May 2005 (UTC) ==Aphra Behn== Goodness... you want to take a look at what's happening there? --User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 20:04, 13 May 2005 (UTC) :You mean the new editor who is putting naivette back in, after the Gildon-slurry? It's trash. I just warn folks that their words aren't going to stay for long. My problem is that I don't want to put my toe in the river unless I'm going to take a bath. I can get her to 1671 now, but not beyond, and, as much as I'd prefer to have a nothing than an incorrect something, what I ''don't'' have the energy for is an edit war that would erupt after I pasted the tag on it and stripped it to the verifiable essentials. The list of plays after that is also slush, to me, but I won't fight that. User:Geogre 21:39, 13 May 2005 (UTC) ::Just adding my voice to the countless thousands who are begging you to take Aphra Behn in hand - especially after your astoundingly excellent work on Oroonoko. I've just hacked out some more of the most excruciating bits but that didn't leave a lot behind and it'll probably just get reverted again. I haven't got the resources to do it myself and let's face it, you (and Bish) are the dons of the baroque. Apologies if you think the list of plays is slush, I got it from my copy of the Rover. Well, I felt guilty about doing nothing! --User:Mr impossible 17:57, 14 May 2005 (UTC) :Oh, shoot, I don't think it's wrong. My fear was the authors were going the way of bands. I just had to step into a bit where one person was forever splitting a band article while others were trying to discuss all the albums in one place (all short). I was concerned that the list was going to be ''instead of'' a discussion. A bibliography of her works is vital. Like I said, I was just worried that some folks (and never you, as you do great work) were going to produce the list and think the duty to Behn done. I will absolutely get back on Behn, though. You're right: I've waited too long, and right now I'm just looking like a critic on the talk page. It's time to make it work or stop making comments. I just stalled on the biography in favor of reading a bunch of other things (not for lack of interest, but just because another shiny bauble came into view, and a started pawing at it), and I need to finish it so that I can get Behn past ''The City Heiress''.User:Geogre 18:48, 14 May 2005 (UTC) ==Imagism== Just to let you know that this is now on WP:FAC. Thanks for your Peer review input. User:Filiocht | User talk:Filiocht 07:23, May 17, 2005 (UTC) Thanks for your FAC vote, improvements to the article, and kind comments. User:Filiocht | User talk:Filiocht 08:03, May 19, 2005 (UTC) == Jamiroquoi is a War Crime == The chief evil of colonialism is that it goads a subjugated population into purchasing its own goods back from its subjugators, at a marked up price. You grow the coffee beans, they roast them, and you buy coffee from them and can't have any to drink otherwise. The US made Sly and the Family Stone and Motown. It should not be asked to buy them back in the form of fey hat-without-a-head Britpop, and, if any of its citizens do, the subjugation is only ignorance and the force of historical blindness. Grrrr. User:Geogre 01:02, 18 May 2005 (UTC) == St Eric== Thanks for notifying me of this. I will have a look at it ASAP.--User:Wiglaf 14:09, 18 May 2005 (UTC) :Eric the saint is ''Eric IX''. It was not Swedish custom during the middle ages to give the kings numbers. When they did introduce numbers, they started with the mythological kings, so everything is in order.--User:Wiglaf 14:15, 18 May 2005 (UTC) ::Sorry for barging in... The anachronistic numbering is based on a partly historical, partly pseudohistorical work by the 16th century deposed Catholic archbishop Johannes Magnus with which I am not really acquainted (Wiglaf may possibly know more). The numbering wasn't used in the Middle Ages and it is never actually used by modern Swedish historians either. Personally I think it should better be avoided altogether. User:Tupsharru 18:24, 18 May 2005 (UTC) == Humanifesto == FWIW, I don't think you don't come off as hostile in VfD. The problem as I see it, is that some people interpret tone where none exists. In any case, I find your VfD comments helpful and informative. --User:Viriditas | User_talk:Viriditas 00:20, 21 May 2005 (UTC) == Help me please == Geogre, I need your help. Vandals have been vandalizing my User:Sjakkalle and I find myself unable to revert it for some reason. They vandalized your userpage as well, which ''is'' reverted now. They have also vandalized Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Grandma Butter Chicken. I need someone to block the three IPs concerned. They are listed on WP:VIP. User:Sjakkalle 11:41, 23 May 2005 (UTC) That was some ugly juvenile vandalism. Kids these days... User:Zocky 11:52, 23 May 2005 (UTC) :Yeah, and for their trouble they all three got blocked. (sigh) It's not that a sonnet is ''that'' hard to write. User:Geogre 11:58, 23 May 2005 (UTC) :Thanks for your help Geogre. I am looking forward to clashing with you on VfD debates in a friendly manner in the future :-). User:Sjakkalle 12:01, 23 May 2005 (UTC) == Sam Slocum == I have played Ten Thousand Dollar Pyramid to find out more about Sam Slocum. I think I have found some google hits about the guy, but under the name Samuel Slocum, I have made some changes to the article. Can you take another look at it? User:Sjakkalle 07:04, 25 May 2005 (UTC) :Great stuff. Thanks for the work. I'm always pleased to get to change my vote. User:Geogre 11:11, 25 May 2005 (UTC) ::Thanks for the kind words and the response! User:Sjakkalle 06:07, 26 May 2005 (UTC) == Edgar Allan Poe == Hi! I noticed you have previously been involved in editing this article, and it is currently being worked on to try to raise it to FA standard. If you are interested in helping improve this article once more, see Talk:Edgar_Allan_Poe#The_vast_pool_of_advice. User:Harro5 00:15, May 26, 2005 (UTC) :Replied on your talk page, under the #FAC section. Basically, there are some bits of information that I think are needed, and I'm in a position where I cannot be as much help as I'd like. I can copy edit any time you'd care for it, but I would need some of my missing books under my hand to supply the information I'd need to bring forth some of the points on Poe's non-fiction and poetry. User:Geogre 04:22, 26 May 2005 (UTC) ==Punkas== I've completely redone the Punkas article. I hope you have the time to check it. It may not be as much a candidate for deletion as it previously was. Tx.--User:McDogm 20:29, 26 May 2005 (UTC) ==Dannyisme's upended wheelbarrow== Restoration literature! Oh, very well, I'll do a plain vanilla short drama section from Hume's ''Development of English Drama'' if you like, I don't really have the heart to stand by and look at your foot sticking out from Danny's pile of bricks. 1660�89, you say? OK, got it. I appreciate that some eggs need to be broken to make this omelette. 1660�89 takes out the flowering of the drama in the 1690s, but I'll mention that it's out, lest readers be nonplussed at not finding Congreve. User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 07:52, 28 May 2005 (UTC) ==Re 1660�1700== Hey, there's no consensus about what years "The Restoration" covers as a literary period (or as anything else). During the FAC discussion of Restoration comedy, I researched how, specifically, people defined the period in the phrase "Restoration comedy", and easily came up with this lot (quoting myself some): Restoration comedies are comedies produced in 1660�1668, 1660�1682, 1660�1685, 1660�1688, 1660�1700, 1660�1702, 1660�1710, 1660�1732, or 1660�1760! None of the suggestions are made by "fringe" scholars. IOW, there's no consensus, pick what you like, state your definition, and go with it. (The list doesn't even contain your 1660�89, but of course 1660�88 is merely synonymous with it, for obvious reasons.) As you know, I picked 1660�1700 for the comedy article, reasoning that it would be the most encyclopedic and least idiosyncratic option, but the others all have merit, too. Please note also that if you're not talking about Restoration comedy specifically, but more generally about "the Restoration period", then 1660�1685, the reign of Charles II, is probably the encyclopedic winner. The dab page Restoration thinks it is. User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 16:28, 28 May 2005 (UTC) ==Eyrbyggja saga== Hi Geogre, I have made a smallish article on the Eyrbyggja saga. It is a beginning. If you're interested in hauntings in norse sagas, you could read this article: Hervor. Cheers,--User:Wiglaf 20:15, 30 May 2005 (UTC) == Thanks for voting == Before the voting on European English ended a replacement was written, which is being subjected to a new round of voting. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/European English. User:66.167.137.130 09:32, 31 May 2005 (UTC) ==User:Secretlondon== Guess who's back? User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 21:56, 31 May 2005 (UTC) == Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Polydeism == I've cleaned up the article, and think it should be kept (at least until I can do some more research on it). It ''was'' original research (and probably vanity) as originally written, but it's a real term that has been used by some philosophers/theologians. -- BDAbramson">User:BDAbramson User talk:BDAbramson 13:45, 2005 Jun 1 (UTC) ==VFD== Just letting you know about Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/HYP (universities) 2. If you have an opinion, please vote. I am notifying people who have been active on either side of the debate. —User:Lowellian (User talk:Lowellian) 23:49, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) ==WP:RFA == Geogre, if you're around, you might like to form an opinion about Pjacobi's request for adminship. His attitude is pretty unusual�IMO, unusually good�but it hasn't attracted a lot of attention. User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 14:40, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/College admissions and ranking shorthands in the United States == Please re-visit the discussion. User:Uncle G 04:44, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC) == Hi == Hi Geogre, I haven't spoken to you for a while. Hope all is well. Thanks for editing the user page I made, but unfortunately Bishonen has expressed a desire not to be added to the list. If she has changed her mind then fine, but I've had to remove her for now. Don't forget you can add yourself if there is anything you have done which is fab. I'm sure there must be. You can suggest a new category if necessary! I'm sure I haven't covered enough areas. Best wishes --Silversmith">User:Silversmith User Talk:Silversmith 11:44, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/ANZACS Film== I answered your question about pre-viz. User:RickKUser talk:RickK 23:26, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC) ==First name disambiguations== Given what you said at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Pyotr, you might want to visit Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Alessandra and Wikipedia_talk:Disambiguation#Name_disambiguation_policy. User:Uncle G 02:01, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC) ==Thanks for your support== Thank you for voting on my RFA. Have some PI! I was pleasantly surprised by the sheer number of supporters (including several people that usually disagree with my opinion). I shall do my best with the proverbial mop. Yours, User:Radiant!User_talk:Radiant!>|<">meta:mergist 08:18, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC) ==Cricket articles== Hey Geogre, I need some advice here, though I'm not really sure why I'm going to you. Anyway have you noticed the ''Category:2005 English cricket season matches'' articles that have appeared? If wikipedia is going to summarize every sporting event ever played I think it needs some discussion first, to say the least. As far as I can tell there really hasn't been any. What do you think should be done? -User:R. fiend 18:06, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) :We agree then. So do we address this in some forum? If so where? I knew the TV episode articles would deteriorate into this sooner or later. This really needs discussion but I'm not sure exactly where. I'd rather keep it away from VfD for now. Any ideas? -User:R. fiend 18:30, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==J.D. Drew== Your words in the edit description: "Added his college, because he was my student." Huh? I corrected your mistakes. You said he went to UGA (wrong) and was your student. Well, I don't know if he was your student. According to your profile, you lived in Athens, GA., but he went to Lowndes County High School in Hahira, GA and you never said you lived in Tallahassee, FL where Drew went to college at Florida State, so where were you his teacher? Furthermore, Drew never won a college world series with Florida State. I'd expect more from "an administrator". :Ooooh, guess that shows me! Actually, UGA did win a college world series. Three baseball players on that team were my students as freshmen, when I was teaching at UGA. I thought JD Drew was one of them, and it is unwise to expect jockism in admins. I've had hundreds of freshmen, and at the time I didn't pay that much attention to which teams they were on, except that these guys were smart enough and had a sense of humor. It was later that I found out that two of the three had gone on to the major leagues. User:Geogre 22:01, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::I apologize for my inaccuracy, I edited my previous statement, to read "Drew never won a CWS", not "UGA never won a CWS". == Geogre == So here I am, composing a masterpiece of vandalism in sonnet form, when it occurs to me that I don't know the correct pronounciation of "Geogre". Is it ( jor - jre ), ( jor - gre ), ( gai - gre ), or what? ;-) User:FuncUser_talk:Func 20:54, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Func, none of the above, the basis of the name is the word ''ogre''. Imagine Geogre entering the room, and greet him with a cheerful "Gee! Ogre!" And there you have it! User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 23:17, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) Yep. Bishonen's right. The name came from my being considered something of a 500 ton weight dropping on opponents during argument in my youth (I've mellowed), and it was ge-ogre. User:Geogre 03:40, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==English literature== So, I added a summary of your Restoration literature to English literature, if you'd care to check it out. And I think you may not have gone over my invisible comments in Restoration literature. If you look at a version before I whirled the genres round and round the daisies, you'll find 'em easy. User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 23:17, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Cool. Your choices are very interesting, too. :-) What shocks me, and I mean shocks me is that Augustan literature is wide open. How can this be? If you think (and I do) that I put in some sweat work on Restoration literature, that's nothing compared to what I'd do with Augustan. Them's my peeps. As for the invisible comments, I really don't quite know what you mean, but I'll play with various diffs and see if I can figure it out. User:Geogre 03:39, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) BTW, I think I've seen and addressed the invisible ink comments, if I understood properly. User:Geogre 12:31, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) :My summary in English literature is a quick crude job, relying basically on keeping some of your blocks and deleting others. A proper summary would delicately condense each block, but check out what was there before, and I think you'll grasp why I wanted to put in even a crude one while awaiting... oh...[whistling] somebody [wandering off, shouting over shoulder] while waiting for you to put in a proper one [running away]! -User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 13:39, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) It ''is'' a proper one, kiddo. You did a great job with it. I'm not sure what anyone would expect of an English literature article except one about 500kb long. Like I said, though, you just wait until I summon the energy and demons and put them in harness to start on Augustan literature. There are butts to be kicked, and I'm lacing up my boots. User:Geogre 14:25, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Kiddo? [Deploying ear trumpet, adjusting pincen�z, shaking stick at brazen juvenile.] What you say? User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 16:31, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) I looked at your recent work, and I realized late that you might want the Augustan literature. If you do, I'll gladly step back from such a major plunge. It's a big, big, big task. Is there an element of it you'd consider doing? The drama isn't all that illustrious, and the poetry is enormous, and anyone doing "the novel" needs an article by itself at the least. User:Geogre 17:04, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) :[Running away at a surprising clip for my age.] Nooooooooooo! No Augustan! Not even if there wasn't a Geogre in the house! User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 17:21, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) Ahhh, come on! It'll be fun. Besides, just imagine what I'd say about Augustan theater. (Hint: I hates it.) Think what I'd say about all the dissenter prose authors. (Hint: I hates 'em too.) Think of all the unfair slagging off on Richardson I'll do. I can't be trusted with the responsibility, I tell you. User:Geogre 17:46, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Please block == User:Villy on Vheels. But this one seems to be an amateur, moving things by copy/paste. User:Sjakkalle User talk:Sjakkalle 13:03, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) == User:Villy on Vheels == Hi Geogre, I just noticed that you blocked the above user right before I blocked him indefinitely as a troll account/impersonation attempt. After I saw your temporary block, I thought that my indefinite block may indeed have been to much in that case. I'd be willing to trust your judgment, unblock him and apply a temporary block, but I'm not really sure we need to assume good faith with a username like that... User:Ferkelparade User_talk:Ferkelparade 13:12, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Heck no, man! Infinity and beyond is fine with me. I was just in a hurry to get out the door when I got a flag on him, so I went with the default 24 hr. My theory was that this account wouldn't really be used for more than 10 minutes or so and that the dingus would immediately switch over to create a new one, so any block would prompt a new move. Infinite ban does absolutely no harm, though. (I was thinking that it wasn't the real WoW but rather copy-cat, as he was doing page moves by c&p instead of the way WoW did them.) Absolutely, though, no disagreement from me. Let his name never be spoken among the just (anathema). User:Geogre 14:22, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) == reducing vfd load == Hi Geogre, Meelar has brought to my attention that you might like a proposal of mine at User talk:MarSch/deleteproposal. Please take a look. Thanks --User:MarSch 15:09, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Slawi VfD debate == Sorry, but I was hoping you could explain this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Log/2005_June_8#Godzilla], if speedy keep is an invalid vote? I'm not arguing or anything, but doesn't this show that speedy keep is a valid vote, since the article was speedily kept? User:Scimitar 19:22, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) Thanks for your swift reply, and I understand your argument. I concur with what you're saying, mostly because after thinking about it I think that the benefits of keeping the article quickly are outweighed by the possible connotations of the vote. I won't be using this in future, except on excessively moronic nominations (say, United States of America). As for Kappa, I think what he's doing is simply arguing forcefully from his ultra-inclusionist perspective, and not so much an attack on the nominator. I'm pretty sure I'm not an inclusionist, and I disagree with him occasionally, but AFAIK he's always been civil. One of the unfortunate results of the schools debate was a heightening of rhetoric, which led to an absurdly low bar for school notability, since no consensus could be reached. Anyway, thanks for your perspective, and best wishes. User:Scimitar 19:37, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Your User page== I really am glad you decided to keep your User page. User:RickKUser talk:RickK 05:29, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC) ==Beautiful boy== You gonna upload :Image:Southampton.gif, already? Being as I am both a beautiful boy and a straight female, I take several kinds of interest. Is he as beautiful as the flea? Note, btw, that User:Gdr is writing diligently to you about the pictures on my page. User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 17:50, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Thanks for the bishie. He looks very grown-up, though! About five years older than the average IRC age. That's a biseinen in my book. User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 21:15, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) Well, true, but he was five years younger when Shakespeare wrote those pretty poems to him, I think. "Nature fell adoting" indeed. Certainly an androgyne. The painting has it all, though: armor in the back and amour in the front. User:Geogre 21:18, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Thank for the pics!== Very much, and the messages! But I will not be tempted into staying up for another minute, I will keep them as a reason for getting briskly out of bed in the morning instead. This is just to share a trick: you can actually link to an image, without displaying the image itself on the page. Give the complete code as if to display it, but add a colon at the head. (Same as with categories.) For an example, lookee the editing code for my link to the Southampton.gif above. Chubby :Image:Edward Kynaston.jpg, btw, is a lot bishier than Southampton! And so good night! User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 02:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Vfd on Jason Court == Hi again! I noticed that you voted delete on Jason Court here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Jason_Court] . I rewrote the article, and am wondering if you want to reconsider your vote? Best wishes, regardless. User:Scimitar 16:04, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) *Honestly, I think he's probably pretty washed up, with his best days well behind him. Still, in my books he's barely notable enough, since it's conceivable that game fans will want to look him up. Then again, that's just my opinion. --User:Scimitar 16:44, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==18th-century toilet paper holder== Chortle chortle chortle chortle chortle chortle chortle chortle... and so on! User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 13:18, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Geogre's Law== Hey Geogre, I saw you mention this in a VfD vote, and I think I've seen it elsewhere too. What exactly is it? -User:R. fiend 00:10, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==User:PRiis== Hey, some cool news for a change: did you see that Pete is back? :-) He's got Elias Ashmole up for WP:PR [NUDGE]. You know, the Ashmolean Museum? User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 08:13, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Email == I've spammed your mailbox with some interesting comparative material. Thanks for your work on Restoration literature. Cheers, — User:Mark Dingemanse User Talk:Mark Dingemanse 14:07, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==A Discourse on the Original and Progress of Satire (1692)== Geogre, did I hear you say you wanted this one in the Ref section? Gutenberg has a nice text of it, together with the "Discourse on Epic Poetry" (1697). You want me to put it in? *Dryden, John (originally published in 1692). [http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext01/dscep10.txt "A Discourse on the Original and Progress of Satire"], from Project Gutenberg. Prepared from the 1888 Cassell & Company edition. User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 15:56, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Trouble is they have about five traditional titles each, the buggers, so I'm not sure which one that is. The "Original and Progress" is apparently the preface to Juvenal. I've added that fact. User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 16:33, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::Just realized you wanted the discourse on the epic as well, putting it in. User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 23:27, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) == thanks for thanks == You don't need to thank me for recognizing how good the Restoration literature article is (but thanks back anyway). I had been working on getting Emily Dickinson up to FAC snuff, but fell asleep on it for a few weeks somehow; perhaps after I get back in gear on that I will add a bit to fill out the nineteenth and twentieth centuries of the English literature article/series. (I am not sure how we'll want to handle the non-UK-and-Ireland literatures there, but it seems like the main article ought to include everything, at least in survey, and there's a big American literature-shaped hole in it at the moment.) And yes, I know what you mean; it's sometimes easier to write about things you don't know quite so well as your own specialty. Thanks for the invitation to contribute -- though I can't match what you put in (in time or in quality), I will pitch in as I can. -- User:Rbellin|User talk:Rbellin 21:00, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Gmail for Filiocht== Hi Geogre: I saw your offer on Fil's talk page and implemented it myself since I already have his email address. It will make a nice surprise for him when he arrives at work.—User:TheoClarke User_talk:TheoClarke 06:46, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Thenks to you both. I'm now filiocht at gmail dot com!. User:Filiocht | User talk:Filiocht 07:48, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC) ::By the way, well done on your new FA. User:Filiocht | User talk:Filiocht 07:54, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC) Thanks. If you want to see why I ought not be trusted with survey articles on things I know something about, though, see Augustan literature. That sombitch is something like 50K already, and I haven't even gotten to the poetry or drama. This is also sort of why I wasn't much help on Modern Poetry: I can't go small on things like that, no matter how hard I try. All the developments are important. User:Geogre 17:02, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Donut== No, I have gone to bed, but I see fresh footprints of yours, so I have to say this: there's a scrumptious donut waiting for you on my Talk, just above reply to anon. :-) User:Bishonen | User talk:Bishonen 01:49, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC) :DANG! Augustan literature is already 53k, and I haven't even gotten to the satire! Holy smokes and cigarettes! That's insane, but every word is precious. Every article is necessary. It can't be shorter!!! I'm going to go have a good cry now. User:Geogre 02:29, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Geogre

Wanna vandalize my page? Heck, who doesn't? Write it in sonnet form, please. I have been made a Wikipedia administrator. I suppose that's germane. If you need administrator help on something, I might be able to lend it. :As for my personal details, they are totally irrelevant even to me. However, since I've made reference to some of them elsewhere, I'll confirm some of them. Oh, I will add an irrelevant fact: I'm a descendant of Hugh Bigod, 1st Earl of Norfolk. :Wikibreak? Why so quiet, Bob? :Well, no and yes. Prospero has lost his books, you see. I have moved, geographically, and my books moved somewhere nearby. Until they are all again under my hand, my new article work will slow. Also, I'm reading a long but interesting new biography of Aphra Behn. When I am done reading it, I will assuredly (promise) whip that article into Featured quality. [[Image:Macheath-dog.jpg|thumb|right|300px|An American Eskimo Dog I know.]] ==Latest ''de novo'' articles== User:Bishonen">Image:Extracted pink rose.png|right|thumb|120px|I hereby award you the Brilliant Prose Rose for your great articles! User:Bishonen I ain't proud of them, but.... Ok, I'm kind of proud of them. ''Very latest:'' N.b. Having physically moved into the heart of redness, I'm not able to spend as much time as I prefer on Wikipedia. However, my in progress articles are still in progress, I promise. # Augustan literature is in process too. It's killing me. # The Dunciad In process. Not done. Will take weeks. #Saint a Day: ## ''More than two days old:'' :Literature: Restoration literature (with user:Bishonen): I can't believe I wrote all that. Even I am going to admire it for a while. A Featured Article woo-hoo. Thomas Usk More midi-evoel authors. A Game at Chess At least it's literature. I didn't even mention the TS Eliot connection. Lewis Theobald A dunce who was not a dunce. Annus Mirabilis (poem) Too short; I should re-read the poem & write it anew. Venice Preserv'd Plot summary makes it sound worse than it is. The Knight of the Burning Pestle Fun play. Beaumont and Fletcher get lost in the canon shuffle, you know. My interest is as a historian of parody, though. Licensing Act of 1737. This is a stub, practically, because the subject needs a monograph, not an article. Henry Brooke is enough of mine to claim, I think. It's not as dramatic a rescue as others I've done, though. Churchyard Poets Look, I don't think there were any, ok? I don't think the Romantics happened, either. I'm an 18th century specialist. To me, this is all one unbroken line. However, other people use the word, so it deserves an article. Thomas Percy About danged time someone wrote an entry on him. More could be done, of course. Cotton library Single greatest source of medieval literature in English. John Rich (producer) and the disambig at John Rich; properly, it would be "theater manager," but even fewer people would search that than "producer." The Rhyming Poem An Anglo-Saxon poem in rhyme. The classical unities and a bunch of redirects. Cleanness By the Pearl Poet. The entry on the Pearl Poet isn't all that great, y'all. Essay of Dramatick Poesie Honestly, I don't even like Dryden. The Percy Folio Didn't even look to see if a text is available of it online. Someone else will fix it, I'm sure. The Rehearsal (play) Much more important than the movie by the same name. The Proverbs of Alfred Some of them are his, too. Vox Clamantis Gower doesn't like the peasants. George Lillo Major author without an article. The Conquest of Granada Dryden. A Yorkshire Tragedy Been tribble at a mill. Trivia (poem) The best unread poem of the 18th century. George Lyttelton Friend to the Tory satirists. The Bagford Ballads More of the good Harley did. Pruning poem Many a slip betwixt cup and lip. Biographia Literaria Coleridge when he was high. Oroonoko Wrote it. Fought over it. Rewrote it from scratch, and now it's Featured Article, looks like. Meditation Upon a Broomstick I ought to stop today; I'm not writing good articles. Eastward Hoe Not a great play or a good article. The Rover (play) I could make a career of just entering Aphra Behn stuff, and so could you. Namby Pamby 18th c. verse satire, important silliness. City Heiress An Aphra Behn play. I won't read the Behn article, because I want to be able to sleep at night. Dragon of Wantley A funny poem from the 17th c. Havelok the Dane I need to fill out some bibliographic info yet. Chaucer's Tale of Sir Topas I can't believe I got to write this. Flores and Blancheflour I thought the poem was slow torture. Elegiac Obvious and inobvious. Wise Blood Check the diffs! A half sentence substub shall not stand when I'm a lecturer on Flannery O'Connor (or was one, anyway). Glumdalclitch A ''Gulliver's Travels'' character. Alison Lurie Yet another of the Missing Pulitzer Prize winners. Edwin O'Connor Yet another of the Missing Pulitzers entries. Robert Lewis Taylor Yet another "Fill in the Pulitzers" entry. MacKinlay Kantor Part of the "Fill in the Pulitzers" project. A. B. Guthrie, Jr. Part of the "Fill in the Pulitzers" project. Linguistic Determinism I didn't create it, but I did such a save of it that I want to boast. Henry Brooke, Lord Cobham I sympathize with dimwitted traitors -- the best kind. The Mint is an idea whose time has come again. Moll Flanders was a disgrace, so 98% of it is now mine (one sentence left of the original): This is one of those items that visitors to ''Wikipedia'' will search for, and if they had seen what was there before, they'd have concluded that ''Wikipedia'' is worthless. Sarah Fielding is now 10% more comprehensible than when I wrote it. Ormulum is a dull article that's 500% more interesting than the Ormulum itself. Jonathan Wild is a ''Featured Article''. Peterborough Chronicle...forgot that I did that one, such we suffered 19 winters for our sins. Digression I did it ages ago. See, there was this one time when.... The Battle of the Books Swift. King Sweeney...forgot I did this one, too. Sylph Definitely forgot that I wrote this one, but it's not bad. Bathos is a very important word for the Lady's Auxillary's production of ''Hamlet.'' Parody is about 99% mine. When I found it, it was a stub about film. A Tale of a Tub was my first complete article here. Hope you wanted to know all about it. It is also a Featured Article (November 12, 2004). Mock-heroic Amazingly, I just rediscovered this article I wrote as an IP. It was one of the last I wrote as an IP, as well. It's not bad. :Religion: Denise A virgin martyr. Pudentiana A legendary saint. Saint Lucifer An anti-Arian pugilist. Bernadine of Siena An evangelical preaching saint of the counter-reformation. Paschal Baylon Monk, mystic, May 17. Solange A virgin martyr whose head is her relic. Antonia and Alexander Identical almost with Saints Theodora and Didymus. Saint Juvenal Both of them. Saint Angelus Martyr. Jutta Kulmsee Patroness of Prussia. Evodius Perhaps the 3rd known bishop in church history. Peter Chanel Martyr to the south seas. Saints Theodora and Didymus Virgin and soldier martyrs. Saint Maximus A merchant martyr. Saint Alda A mystic. Richarius A French saint whose cultus Charlemagne favored. Radbertus is not ''de novo'', but I un-1911'ed it and added most of the information. Fidelis of Sigmaringen April 24th's William of Conches Some theologian. A humanist. William of Auxere Some other theologian. Didn't condemn Aristotle. Saint Apollonius Unclear to me if this is Claudius Apollonius or not, but I think not. John Coleridge Patteson Red on the list of saints article. Robert of Melun Trying to fix the Robert list. Saint Alberic Last of the founders of the Cistercians. I now know that story pretty well. Saint Emma After all, Emma is not a disambiguation, but an article on the Austen novel. This is what happens when you build haphazardly. Saint Robert And, believe it or not, there is a mess of messes over the stupid Robert article now. Have I mentioned that I loathe "List of" articles lately? Galdino Pretty political, if you ask me. Even the hagiography doesn't make him sound very, umm, mystical. Perfecto An inflammatory saint/martyr in these days, I'm afraid. Stephen Harding A founder of the Cistercians. Benedict Joseph Labre A mendicant saint. Cuthbert Mayne Another of the 40 Martyrs of England and Wales. There is an engraving of him somewhere, but Google Images couldn't find it. Hugh of Grenoble The second of the three sainst named Hugh. Seeking photos. Marcellinus of Carthage This is the saint of my birthday. Make of that what you will. John Bramhall An Anglican who spent the Interregnum defending the English Church from all attackers. Birinus Another saint: "Apostle to the West Saxons." Nicholas of Flue Patron saint of Switzerland and March 21. Saint Lea Jerome mentioned her in passing, and she is a saint for March 22. Margaret Clitherow Killed by the sheriffs of York under Edward VI, one of the "forty martyrs." Marcella A saint mentioned in the Saint Lea article, so I had to turn her link blue. Rupert of Salzburg A bishop who gave the town its name. John Field (divine) Not a saint. A Puritan, and a dedicated one. Saint Amun A collection of hermits = a monastery. Chantry is 98% mine, from info. I have from the Ox. Dict. of the Christian Church. Lazarus and Dives From the Bible and a Vaughan Williams composition. Westminster Assembly Puritans at work. The Book of Sports Puritans don't dance on Sunday. Doctors' Commons A legal college for churchmen. Edward Burrough A Quaker advocate. Deiniol A Welsh saint. Erconwald An Anglo-Saxon bishop. Oswald Another Anglo-Saxon bishop. This one had some drama. Thomas Barlow (bishop) A Vicar of Bray candidate. Philadelphians A theosophical sect in England. Bangorian Controversy If you have Hoadly, you have to have this. You know, this seems to be pretty interesting. Benjamin Hoadly A low church bishop who fought Atterbury. Petrock No, not a pet rock. More saints. Honorius of Autun Popularizer of clerical learning. Asterius the Sophist Heretic. Guardian angel isn't mine, but about 70% of it came from me and my reference works. Saint Egbert A hermit. Hylozoism Not a bad job on this one. It makes no difference at all, though, when there are "Digimon" characters without pages still. Aristides (Apologist) Christian apologist. Hrosvit 10th c. Latin Christian poetess. The Christian Year Where hymns came from. Alogi Heretics. Saint Aurelius A saint. This is ticking me off. I learned that saints are by their names alone. Fine. Well, Aurelius brings up the Roman family. Therefore, I tried to keep to the convention and wrote it as Aurelius, Saint, but then someone redirected that, too. I'm just going to start naming articles whatever the hell I want. Zita A man needs a maid. Zwickau prophets Baptists. Witelo Scientist. Cambridge Platonists I kind of like the job I did on this one. Cardinal virtues Prudence, temperance, fortitude, and justice. Thomas Beccon I admit it, I've been distilling stuff from the Ox. Dict. of the Christian Church. Surprising how much others have already done, from apparently the same source. Herbert Marsh An English bishop who was anti-Calvinist. Saint Lambert (martyr) A saint whose name has generated a number of geographical tags. Gloria in Excelsis Very tough rewording the New Advent...that thing is a 19th c. mess. Latitudinarian I'm of two minds about. :History: Sophonisba O Sophonisba, Sophonisba O! The True Law of Free Monarchies By stinky Jimmy I. Jack Ketch Did you know? Robert Aske Tried to help the peasants, got killed for it. :Myth: Polycletus More for Lempriere, but this one was the greatest Greek sculptor, according to them. Bavius Because Pope read Horace (well, sort of myth). Clytie Sort of a duplicate article, but a correction of the old one. Clytius Useless article. Phaon Mythological figures this major without articles are getting rare. Trivia (goddess) The goddess of Greek redlights. Oeonus It's just kind of rewording from a good reference, but this one is helpful for the list of cremated people. Hegetorides It's ''easy'' to write articles like this. Cineas Everyone should own a copy of the public domain ''Lempriere's Dictionary'' Mydon Kind of embarrassed to write that at all. :Miscellaneous: Foghat I absolutely ''hate'' "Fool for the City," but "Slow Ride" is cool. Little Englander Nothing to be proud of. Wikipedia:Managed Deletion I am ''so'' going to regret this. Eudemonism Not very well written, even for a starter page. Translatio studii...yeah, did this one as well, back when I was an IP. Tietze's syndrome "Every physician hath almost his favorite disease," Fielding said. :Images: (Just so I'll remember them & fetch them when I need them.) Southampton.gif (Earl of Southampton, Shakespeare's patron.) Spanish-tragedy.gif (Title page of said play.) Faustus-tragedy.gif (Marlowe's Dr. Faustus title page.) Othello-tragedy-18th.gif (From Hanmer's 1744 edition of Shakespeare, based on Pope's text, a mild "striking" of Desdemona by Othello.) Fela-Hooke.gif (from ''Micrographia'', Robert Hooke's flea.) Donne-shroud.png (John Donne posing in his winding sheet.) Book-auctioneer.png (A man selling the books of a hanged doctor in Moorfields in 1700.) Swift-works.png (From the 1735 edition of Swift's ''Works''.) Pope-dying.png (The death of Pope from ''Museus'' by William Mason, 1747, showing a poetic apotheosis.) Johnson-blinking.png (The Reynolds 1775 portrait of Johnson squinting at a book.) Pope-Alexander.png (Satirical print vs. ''Dunciad'' from 1729.) ==Places I've Lived== *Savannah, Georgia *Atlanta, Georgia *New Orleans, Louisiana (University) *Atlanta again (University, plus being in a punk band) *Athens, Georgia (University some more) *Chapel Hill, North Carolina (yet more university) *Goldsboro, North Carolina (work) *New York City (work) (from August 2001 to August 2003 (terrorist attack and blackout framing my time in Manhattan) (weirdest thing in my life was how quiet Manhattan got after the attacks; no planes, no cars, no buses, no trains running, just quiet up on 86th St.)) *Baltimore, Maryland (work) (Arrived just in time for an economic collapse) *Vidalia, Georgia (joining the ranks of the leisured poor (failure to thrive)). I miss libraries, radio station choice, and Democrats. ==Things I've gotten paid to do== *Teach stuff *School technology *Drink a beer milkshake *Pick up a girlfriend from a bus station 260 miles away, despite protestations *Review movies that were on video *Technical edit medical journals *Given my record, I'm hoping to get paid to ''not'' live places. ==My areas of special knowledge are== *English literature *Restoration to mid-18th century England *Religious history *Film history *Poetry *Philosophy *Punk rock of the first wave (well, they called it punk at the time, but you probably call it New Wave; let's just say "Athens, GA" and leave it there) *Literary theory, despite myself. ==Advice for VfD Voters== No one has asked me, but here is some advice that's worth everything you pay for it. * VfD is for votes, not proof. You should vote, and you should state the reasons for your vote. You should read the reasons given by other people. If you feel that they are in error, you can explain why, in your vote, their reasoning did not sway you. What you should not do is engage in a dialogue. Most of all ''do not try to prove your case.'' Every person who goes to VfD too often will fail this rule. I certainly will. Keep it in mind, though. Remember that the other person is just one vote, same as you, and the strength of your reasoning and his or hers may or may not sway others, but your duty is merely to vote. *VfD has nothing to do with what you like. This is self-explanatory, until something you agree with in your marrow shows up and loses a vote. At that point, you may feel that real world politics, or snobbery, or feelings of persecution, or gender or personal identity demands that you vote opposite the others and, worse, that you stop the others from doing what they're doing. Remember: these are pixels on copper disks somewhere. This is an encyclopedia, and not real life. Redress the issue by improving the Wikipedia. *Have criteria. The most important thing you can do to be a respected voter on VfD is to be consistent in your criteria. If you can enunciate those criteria, then all the better, but be consistent in them. You have no choice but to obey the deletion criteria, but each one of those has an interpretive element to it. How you understand "original research" or "notability" is going to come into play. However you define these things, be consistent. That means that you should be perfectly happy to delete a non-notable article on a thing you love (or that you wrote) and keep a notable article on something you hate (or was written by your least favorite Wikipedian). Be consistent with your criteria. Explain them, and do not waver. If you vote delete on Sailor Moon because it's too granular, don't then vote keep on Pokemon because people love it, and vice versa. *Vote on the article, not the person. This is hard. An article appears that has been written by a timid and eager 10 year old, but it's poor. You ought to be judging the article and its encyclopedic qualities, not the person. You can shower the user with Wikilove and offer all the help in the world, but you are going to need to pull the trigger on the article. Similarly, if Dr. Important writes a cruddy article, you're going to have to delete that, too, despite the fact that the author is such a feather in our caps that we daren't risk offense. If DJRadzikul sprays VfD votes with idiocy but writes a good article, you have to also vote to keep that article. The author and the article are separate entities and require separate actions. *List the article, not the person. This is something that has been violated by Admins in the past. Look, we all have in our heads lists of Wikipedians whom we think are worthless. We all know the ones who announce that they have goals that are contradictory to stated policy. We know the people who vandalize and edit war on articles because they're peevish. That doesn't mean that we try to kill them in pieces by listing every article they write on VfD or, worse, listing their user pages on VfD. People are handled by the Arbitration Committee, not VfD. The only thing that comes out of VfD warring someone is that a pest becomes a troll. ==Notability Nota Bene== In the spirit of the above, I offer some attempt at enunciating my own definition of the "notable" subject. Because each of the terms in the deletion guidelines are subject to nuance, I have my own set of criteria, and these guide me in assessing notability and the need for separate treatment of subjects. *1. Is it known outside of its own context? Obviously, encyclopedias don't tell people what they already know, but is an item so famous that people who do not know the subject will still have heard the term and need information about it? **People: Do people outside of Atlanta hear of "Manuel Maloof?" If so, we need to help them understand who he was. If not, information on him is probably best suited to a history of Atlanta or an article on Atlanta, Georgia. If he is vital for understanding Atlanta, he should be discussed where his name is important. If he is known outside of that, he needs an article. **Places: Places (not cities or towns, but hotels and the like): Are they things that those outside of their cities will have heard of in some context? Are they coming to town to go there? If so, the place needs a discussion in its own right. If not, it might be mentioned in its master topic. **Events: Is "the Arcadia riot" something that people who study history need to know about, or is it just something that people studying Baltimore history need to know about? Have they heard of it outside of its specific context of historians? **Fictions and art: Has anyone other than a reader of Gulliver's Travels heard the word "Flimnap?" How about "Lilliput?" If "Flimnap" is mentioned often enough that a generally educated person encounters it, then an article on this character in Gulliver's Travels is warranted. If not, then he ought to be mentioned in the Gulliver article. Have educated people heard "Lilliput?" You bet. It needs an article ''and'' to be mentioned in the article on the novel. It is notable. *2. Has it affected the world? By this, I don't mean "Have people enjoyed reading it" or "Have numbers heard of it?" **People: A person who struggles to organize local businesses to repeal bad laws has done something, but he has done more if he succeeds in getting the laws repealed. If he fails to ''make a change in the world,'' then did he cause notoriety in the effort? The more of a change in the world, the more notable. **Places: Was/is the place crucial for the ongoing activity of the world? The example I've used before, to pick on two of my own alma maters, is The Rusk Center at the University of Georgia and The Carter Center at Emory University. The former is a fine place of international studies. It was founded by Dean Rusk, and very important people go there to work and speak. However, although it does excellent work, it has not, ''as a place'', changed the world. The latter, on the other hand, has been active in all sorts of international disputes. It sends election monitors. It mediates conflicts. It has a Wikipedia article. **Events: Did this event change the world? It's fairly simple, here. The more it changed the world, and the more of the world it changed, the more notable it is. **Fictions and art: The publication of Madame Bovary was huge. It caused a trial for obscenity. The screening of Behind the Green Door was huge, too. It was an X-rated film that got shown in regular theaters, and there were court battles over it. On the other hand, the screening of ''Anal Avengers 4'' did nothing. Therefore, while obscenity is the cause in all three artworks, two changed the world. One trod the paths blazed by the others. Primary Colors is similarly notable. These artworks changed the world, and they are notable. On the other hand, the deluxe set of trading cards for some fiction or other probably changes nothing but a few bank balances. *3. Is it exemplary? The best of its kind, the first of its kind, or the most successful of its kind is notable within the set of an object. **People: The man who invents the helicopter is more notable than the man who improves it. The first patient with AIDS is more notable than the most recent. If the person is not notable, discuss him or her in the industry or product or event article. **Places: The Old North Church isn't that impressive, until you realize that it was first. The Bilbao MoMA is significant for its singular architecture. All of those roadside restaurants shaped like food are notable as singular items and exemplars of their type. Others are almost surely better discussed in the general Metropolitan Museum of Modern Art article or roadside attractions. **Events: Was it the defining moment? Dylan plugs in his guitar is a singular moment, but the next show isn't. Was it a coinciding of events that could not happen again? An apotheosis or nativity would have to be notable. Other events probably belong in the article on the process or the life. **Fictions and art: The Waste Land is a summary event in Modernist Poetry, but "The Cold Heavens" by Yeats is not. Before you say that your favorite TV show is notable because a million people saw it, think about whether it is singular, an epitome, remarkable. If so, let it be an article. If not, speak of it in the master article on the fiction. ===Breakout articles, an additional aspect=== Finally, though, there is one thing that qualifies a subject for separate treatment. If it is notable but should be best discussed in a master term, it can still be broken out into an individual article if the master article is too large to be manageable. Obviously, that introduces another judgment, but, nevertheless, we need to look at large articles, like Pokemon or BDSM and ask whether we can talk about all the sub-topical matters on these pages. If not, we need to break down the subject. ''This does not mean automatically going to the atomic level!'' I.e. just because you can't put every Pokemon card into the Pokemon article, that doesn't mean that each card should have an article. From kingdom, you go to phylum. From BDSM, you go to Bondage gear, then Bondage practices. From Methodism you go to United Methodist, and not your local congregation. Work with the community on logical organization of the material to maintain utility of searches and coherence of presentation. Anyway, here endeth the sermon. ==My "Deletionism"== I am perceived as being a "deletionist." I don't regard myself that way at all. There are various ways of looking at Wikipedia -- as a system, as a machine, as an activity -- but I prefer to look at it as an organism. It therefore has two needs: acquisition and loss. It must gain new food, and it must strain out the waste. Two needs, with two tactics. I also look at Wikipedia as a reference work for users. Anyway, here are a few of my thoughts on deletion. ===When Nothing Is Better Than Something=== When I first came to Wikipedia, I hit the "random" link a few times. One of those turned up Al Gore. I was impressed that the article was long, detailed, and without an agenda, either pro- or con. It was because of that article that I returned and began to believe that Wikipedia would not just be the anarchy of the web, or Usenet, where the most motivated (i.e. the loudest and most aggrieved) ruled by persistence and intimidation. I believe very strongly that users of Wikipedia coming to it the first time will perform 2-3 searches, if we are lucky, and will base their impressions of the site on those results. If those 2-3 searches yield nothing, it's bad, but if those searches yield junk, argumentation, inaccuracies, or blips of non-information, it's even worse. We are all aware that reference works have limits. If I do not find "polyphiloprogenitive" in an online dictionary, I know that there might just be a hole in that dictionary. On the other hand, imagine what reaction I would have if I ''did'' find it, and it said, "A word used in a poem." What would your reaction be? What if I found, "A new web company based in Tonga with cool products!" or "#redirect Words no one uses" or "A word often heard from Lord Viperskorpion on tel3D00dies?" I believe that we must, absolutely must, patrol the site for articles with inadequate, erroneous, and argumentative information, and it is far better to have a hole than to have trash on the ground. This is true because of the medium we are operating in. The world wide web itself, and especially those bits of it that allow "anyone" to enter them, will always fall victim to the most motivated. I remember back in 1990, when I was a user of the FidoNet BBS system, that the Feminism echo was full of chauvinists and misogynists. The Christianity echo was full of atheists. The Socialism echo had hyperpatriot and Nazi participants. I.e. there are people who feel so personally upset by a topic that their chief activity online is to search out those who represent what they consider to be evil and to bash them. That model, of what some call trolling, was later replaced, with the www, to a model of spammers. Now, every group or page was full not of cranks, but of advertisers. The shadier the product, the more aggressively it was advertised. Wikipedia, I think, is a prime target for the most motivated, and the most motivated are always the ones with a score to settle or a score to make. The "eventualist" position is of some concern to me because of the problem of first impressions. ''Eventually'' Wikipedians will fill in gaps, but the new users do not often get motivated to fix bad articles. New users need to first believe that their efforts are worthwhile and then that they will not find themselves instantly ridiculed for working on an article. Also, although the documentation is very clear on the subject, people have trouble believing that people really don't own their words, really won't care about being edited. (Unfortunately, having looked at IRC and VfD for a while, I have to say that people do get upset with edits.) I think that the logic of eventualism applies equally to absences as stubs. Eventually a Wikipedian will create a good article, just as eventually a Wikipedian will fix a stub. A ratings system may help. However, when we get into ratings we again deal with motivations. If I read an article about a Chemist, I would normally not say anything at all. I don't know the field. Who will? Other chemists, surely, and people who dislike the author of the article, or who believe that chemistry articles are too minor. (Think of what will happen to the ratings of Pokemon articles.) I.e. the motivations of reviewers will offer at least an opportunity for a skewing of results. I do not want someone who has never read beyong Stephen King to rate my Ormulum article harshly because it seems unimportant. I want literary scholars to do so (or, rather, rate it highly). I think a ratings system is a step in the right direction, but I worry that ratings can easily reflect prejudice and motivation. A dedicated atheist could easily bomb every religious article. A dedicated Nazi could bomb every socialist article. We can be back to the problems of trolling. All of this is simply to explain why I am a "deletionist." I do not delete topics. I delete articles. I do not pass judgment often on whether a thing is worth knowing, but I think it is very important to make sure that the materials we have are rewarding for the users. ==An example== I wrote an article on The Mint because I had referred on IRC to needing to find a contemporary version of it. Well, having written the article, I needed to figure out other articles that might link to it. Daniel Defoe wrote about life in The Mint in ''Moll Flanders,'' so it was natural to worm a reference into both Daniel Defoe and Moll Flanders. I know about Defoe, or at least I know as much as I care to about him. I haven't read ''Captain Singleton'', but I've read ''Robinson Crusoe, Moll Flanders, Jonathan Wild'' and ''Roxana''. The Defoe article is poor. It's not unforgivable, but it's really insufficient. Since there is a great deal to know about Defoe (Paula Backschedier has a biography that's worthwhile, though hardly the last word she intended it to be) and I don't, I didn't feel like opening the can to add only a few worms. On the other hand, I was shocked to see Moll Flanders. I invite curious parties to compare the versions before [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Moll_Flanders&oldid=4872049] and after [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Moll_Flanders&oldid=4886449] my edit. I say this not to credit myself, since I really can't remember the plot of the novel well enough to have summarized it, but to warn about the dangers of articles like that. ''Moll Flanders'' is a frequently-assigned text in college English classes in the US, Canada, UK, and Australia. It also makes it into advanced High School classes. It is, therefore, one of those topics that is very, very likely to be a first search term, since high school and college students hit reference works first and foremost to do their papers and prepare for class. Imagine what kind of an opinion such a user gets of ''Wikipedia'' when the entire article is simply the title of the book! It would be far, far better to have nothing there at all, or to have a listing on VfD that will draw out editors, than to let something that abominable be someone's idea of what this project is about. User:Geogre 18:43, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC) ===Schools=== The subject has bedeviled Wikipedia as long as I've been on the project: are schools universally notable? I will try, here, to work out my thoughts on the subject. First, I'll attempt to answer the most frequent arguments of those who wish for blanket approval of school articles, and then I'll attempt to argue that a blanket approval is not merely injudicious, but actually harmful. After that, I will offer up my own voting guide to school articles. The inclusion argument: So far, I have heard two basic arguments about the blanket inclusion. One is that preserving information about schools here will be of service to researchers and the curious. The other is that finding one's school on the site, or creating an article about one's school when one is a student, encourages users to become contributors. This is aside from the "all are notable by affecting lives" argument, which I will deal with later. I hope to fairly represent these arguments. :''Research'' To answer the question of research, I can only say what I have said elsewhere: the primary source of information on schools or municipal institutions of any era is never a secondary source. When you wish to find out about the elementary school that served the Black population in an American city in the 1940's, you do not look at an American encyclopedia of the 1940's. You look to city records. The city had to fund the school. It had enormously complex and thorough documentation on the school. Any future researching wanting to know about a public school in America of today would similarly go to a municipal record. It would be foolhardy to ever look into any secondary source for that material. The ''reason'' that you would never look into a secondary source is that a secondary source is only going to be even remotely useful if it is entirely comprehensive. Inasmuch as Wikipedia relies upon voluntary contributors, it cannot under any circumstance be comprehensive about anything, or cannot guarantee that, and it cannot remain current comprehensively. An article written in 2002 will stay unchanged through 2004, if it looks reasonable or another interested editor doesn't come along, and yet it will be out of date. :''Interest'' Certainly one's present school is going to be interesting. However, so will one's favorite store, favorite rock band, favorite game, favorite character from favorite book, favorite BBS, favorite chatroom, favorite toy, favorite buddy, favorite lover, favorite magazine, etc. To me, we cannot say that because some might have interest we must allow all schools in. That's simply not sufficient justification. However, the most important danger of the "interest" argument is that it shows a fundamental understanding of the purpose of Wikipedia that I do not share. We must ask ourselves one simple question: Is Wikipedia a group participation project that looks like an encyclopedia, or is it an encyclopedia assembled by group participation? Which is foremost: getting people to contribute, or getting good content? If the former, there is no reason to delete schools, or anything else, much. I believe that Wikipedia exists only to provide an encyclopedia that is GFDL. I will say that a person who cannot write an encyclopedia quality article is not welcome to write articles. That excludes some people from authoring, but it excludes them based only upon their product, nothing else. ::Growth: Wikipedia has to grow, right? Well, that was the case. Wikipedia needed to get off the ground, and it needed to attract contributors. It still does. However, it is no longer in any danger of indifference, no longer needing to ''attract'' users. Now, we are having to shift energies from growth to strength, from acquisition to pruning. We still need content, but we are no longer so much in need of content that we must change our standards to encourage it. The second big prong of the "inclusion" argument is significance. As I have heard the argument, it states that schools, by virtue of affecting lives of all students, are inherently notable. :Answer: I do not deny that I was shaped by my schools, for good or ill. I do not deny that my hatred of my high school spurred me to achieve success in college. In that regard, the argument is absolutely true. However, I feel that a thing must not only have an effect, but must have a ''singular'' and ''essential'' effect. I beg pardon for being academic, here, or dropping into philosophy, but the question is not whether a school has an effect, but if a school has an effect that is identifiably part of its essence. Did the pretty girl at the next desk have an effect on her life that was ''characteristically or essentially the particular high school we attended?'' Was it an effect that can be identified as being the Lincoln High Effect? Does the effect have an identity, and therefore is the school itself, as itself, having the effect, or was it just being in a school of any sort? :Given the fact that public schools, in particular, are remarkably uniform across a state, region, or even nation, how can we say that the Lincoln High school had a ''particular'' identity? When "deletionists" argue that a school is just like all the others, what they're getting at is that everyone is altered by school, but that is due to school itself, and not this school itself. In the case of private schools, the schools are much more likely to have a character, an identity, and a particular effect on a life. A Friends school will be very different from a Opus Dei Catholic school, and both will be radically different from a Hebrew academy. Each competes with the others and strives for unique character. :The fact that it is a school does not give it notability in a person's life, even the life of the students there now, for any school would do the same. That's why I and others ask that the school have some other mark to make it worthy of inclusion. What else is there about it? Did it blow up? Did it serve as the set for ''Porky's?'' What sets it apart from every other institution? The argument against inclusion: Above, I was only rebutting the inclusion argument. As for why there is actual harm to inclusion, there are two general points. First is that the information is inherently lost. Second is that the information is at cross-talk or lost. (In process.) (''This section in process.'') ==What I edit== I actually spend ''less'' time writing articles about 18th century British literature, because I know them so well that doing them justice is daunting. Instead, I do a great deal of copy editing and tweaking. However, for an article that I'm proud of that I did ''in toto,'' see A Tale of a Tub. (One day I will get around to writing an entry on my dissertation field, but it's hard to even think about that stuff.) I'm a believer in Wikipedia and have hopes for its continued prosperity. I've been an encyclopedia reader since my earliest years. Nothing matches the pleasure of learning that I have gotten from grazing in encyclopedia, and I look at Wikipedia as a way for me to, in a small way, add to the pleasure of others and pay off some of my debt. ==Sonnet Vandalism== Vandalism (a sonnet)
This sonnet disturbs the page An Wikipedia:edit Anachronism To break the narrative pace As Youth_culture disturbs the Aging
This Wikipedia:User whose space I Wikipedia:Dealing_with_vandalism His life is ne'er so complete As when he votes Talk:Dirty_Sanchez/Delete So Glossary#F will be edit with space
He aspires to literary documentation Wikipedia:Vandalism_in_progress leaves him Anger And so complete with Hyperlink information I write this doggerel gift
Though only done in jest Twas at the User Talk:Geogre's request
- Stephen ''The Vanity of Human Wishes'' asked for a sonnet but got this haiku instead rain in a dry pool Filiocht There once was a cow from Nantucket who gave milk right into a bucket but 'twas markedly sour, so depressed at this hour, she remarked "moo moo moo moo moo, fuck it." User:Joefu 03:09, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC) :I couldnt resist ::how about a haiku: is there truth in boredom one cannot decide to say thy content begone First line has one syllable too many if you're going for the "untraditional" 5-7-5 form. — User:Alkivar (who blanked the page, too, so true vandalism and a haiku)

There once was a fellow named Geogre
Whose name didn't rhyme with squat
He asked for a sonnet
But the vandals had done it
When he just got nonsense — a lot.

User:JRM 08:12, 2004 Dec 29 (UTC) I wanted to vandalise this page, but am really bad at poems, so im going home! User:Selphie 15:19, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC) Although I know you only by a name, your invitation beckoned me to write, and while I have much else to do tonight, to miss this chance would be an utter shame. A sonnet, then? How strange a choice of form for work that often chooses freer verse, or blank (like Alkivar), or sometimes worse (as seen in posts by those who front the storm). If vandal I will be, then to deface a page with lines expressly called upon and not some other writing, sense or non-, seems vaguely incorrect, or out of place. Well, then, so my intention will be clear, The last line isn't going to rhyme at all, and the meter will be wrong, too. -User:Mindspillage User talk:Mindspillage 01:13, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC) Vandalism There was a Wikipedian who thought it
Wise to have vandalism as a sonnet
But the vandals, wanting a gimmick
Gave him instead a limerick
And so he remarked, "Doggone it!"
User:Pufferfish101 21:16, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

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Words begining with Geogre:

Geogre
Geogre
Geogre/Talk_archive
Geogre/Talk_archive_1
Geogre/Talk_archive_2
Geogre/Talk_archive_3
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Geogre/Talk_archive_5
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Geogre_L._Mosse
Geogre_Washington