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First Crusade



The First Crusade was launched in 1095 by Pope Urban II to regain control of the List of holy cities of Jerusalem and the Christianity Holy Land from Islam. What started as a minor call for aid quickly turned into a wholesale migration and conquest of territory outside of Europe. Both knights and peasants from many different nations of western Europe, with little central leadership, travelled over land and by sea towards Jerusalem and captured the city in July 1099, establishing the Kingdom of Jerusalem and the other Crusader states. Although these gains lasted for fewer than two hundred years, the Crusade was a major turning point in the expansion of Western world, and was the only crusade – in contrast to the many that followed – to achieve its stated goal. ==Background== The origins of the crusades in general, and of the First Crusade in particular, stem from events earlier in the Middle Ages. The breakdown of the Carolingian empire in previous centuries, combined with the relative stability of European borders after the Christianization of the Vikings and Magyars, gave rise to an entire class of warriors who now had very little to do but fight among themselves and terrorize the peasant population. Outlets for this violence took the form of campaigns against non-Christians. The Reconquista in Spain was one such outlet, which occupied Spanish knights and some mercenaries from elsewhere in Europe in the fight against the Islamic Moors. Elsewhere, the Normans were fighting for control of Sicily, while Pisa, Genoa and Aragon were all actively fighting Islamic strongholds in Majorca and Sardinia, freeing the coasts of Italy and Spain from Muslim raids. Because of these ongoing wars, the idea of a war against the Muslims was not implausible to the European nations. Muslims occupied the centre of the Christian universe, Jerusalem, which, along with the surrounding land, was considered one giant relic, the place where Christ had lived and died. In 1074, Pope Gregory VII called for the ''milites Christi'' ("knights of Christ") to go to the aid of the Byzantine Empire in the east. The Byzantines had suffered a serious defeat at the hands of the Seljuk Turks at the Battle of Manzikert three years previously. This call, while largely ignored, combined with the large numbers of pilgrimages to the Holy Land in the 11th century, focused a great deal of attention on the east. It was Pope Urban II who first disseminated to the general public the idea of a Crusade to capture the Holy Land with the famous words: "God wills it!" ===The East in the late eleventh century=== Western Europe's immediate neighbour to the southeast was the Byzantine Empire, who were fellow Christians but who had long followed a separate Eastern Orthodox rite. Under emperor Alexius I Comnenus, the empire was largely confined to Europe and the western coast of Anatolia, and faced enemies in the Normans in the west and the Seljuks in the east. Further east, Anatolia, Syria, Palestine, and Egypt were all under Muslim control, but were politically and, to some extent, culturally fragmented at the time of the First Crusade, which certainly contributed to the Crusade's success. Anatolia and Syria were controlled by the Sunni Seljuks, formerly in one large empire ("Great Seljuk") but by this point divided into many smaller states. Alp Arslan had defeated the Byzantine Empire at Manzikert in 1071 and incorporated much of Anatolia into Great Seljuk, but this empire was split apart by civil war after the death of Malik Shah I in 1092. In the Sultanate of Rüm in Anatolia, Malik Shah was succeeded by Kilij Arslan I and in Syria by his brother Tutush I, who died in 1095. Tutush's sons Radwan and Duqaq inherited Aleppo and Damascus respectively, further dividing Syria amongst emirs antagonistic towards each other, as well as towards Kerbogha, the atabeg of Mosul. These states were on the whole more concerned with consolidating their own territories and gaining control of their neighbours, than with cooperating against the crusaders. Elsewhere in nominal Seljuk territory were the Ortoqids in northeastern Syria and northern Mesopotamia. They controlled Jerusalem until 1098. In eastern Anatolia and northern Syria was a state founded by Danishmend, a Seljuk mercenary; the crusaders did not have significant contact with either group until after the Crusade. The Hashshashin were also becoming important in Syrian affairs. Egypt and much of Palestine were controlled by the Arab Shi'ite Fatimids, whose empire was significantly smaller since the arrival of the Seljuks; Alexius I had advised the crusaders to work with the Fatimids against their common Seljuk enemies. The Fatimids, at this time ruled by caliph al-Musta'li (although all actual power was held by the vizier al-Afdal Shahanshah), had lost Jerusalem to the Seljuks in 1076, but recaptured it from the Ortoqids in 1098 while the crusaders were on the march. The Fatimids did not, at first, consider the crusaders a threat, assuming they had been sent by the Byzantines and that they would be content with recapturing Syria, leaving Palestine alone; they did not send an army against the crusaders until they were already at Jerusalem. ==Chronological sequence of the Crusade== ===The Council of Clermont=== ''Main article: Council of Clermont'' In March of 1095 Alexius I sent envoys to the Council of Piacenza to ask Urban for aid against the Turks. The emperor's request met with a favourable response from Urban, who hoped to heal the East-West Schism of 40 years prior and re-unite the Church under papal supremacy as "chief bishop and prelate over the whole world" (as he referred to himself at Clermont, [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html#Fulcher]), by helping the Eastern churches in their time of need. At the Council of Clermont, assembled in the heart of France in November 1095, Urban gave an impassioned sermon to a large audience of French nobles and clergy. He summoned the audience to wrest control of Jerusalem from the hands of the Muslims. France, he said, was overcrowded and the land of Canaan was overflowing with milk and honey. He spoke of the problems of noble violence and the solution was to turn swords to God's own service: "let robbers become knights." [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html#Fulcher] He spoke of rewards both on earth and in heaven, where remission of sins was offered to any who might die in the undertaking. The crowd was stirred to frenzied enthusiasm with cries of ''"Deus le volt!"'' ("God wills it!"). Urban's sermon is among the most important speeches in European history. There are many versions of the speech on record, but all were written after Jerusalem had been captured, and it is difficult to know what was actually said and what was recreated in the aftermath of the successful crusade. However, it is clear that the response to the speech was much larger than expected. For the rest of 1095 and into 1096, Urban spread the message throughout France, and urged his bishops and legates to preach in their own dioceses elsewhere in France, Germany, and Italy as well. Urban tried to forbid certain people (including women, monks, and the sick) from joining the crusade, but found this to be nearly impossible. In the end the majority of those who took up the call were not knights, but peasants who were not wealthy and had little in the way of fighting skills, but whose millennialism and apocalyptic yearnings found release from the daily oppression of their lives, in an outpouring of a new emotional and personal piety that was not easily harnessed by the ecclesiastical and lay aristocracy. ===The People's Crusade=== ''Main article: People's Crusade'' Urban planned the departure of the crusade for August 15, 1096, but months before this a number of unexpected armies of peasants and lowly knights organized and set off for Jerusalem on their own. They were led by a charismatic monk and powerful orator named Peter the Hermit of Amiens. The response was beyond expectations: while Urban might have expected a few thousand knights, he ended up with a migration numbering up to 100,000 mostly unskilled fighters including women and children. Lacking military discipline, and in what likely seemed to the participants a strange land (eastern Europe) with strange customs, those first Crusaders quickly landed in trouble, in Christian territory. The problem was one of supply as well as culture: the people needed food and supplies, and they expected host cities to give them the foods and supplies - or at least sell them at prices they felt reasonable. Unfortunately for the Crusaders, the locals did not always agree, and this quickly led to fighting and skirmishing. On their way down the Danube River, Peter's followers looted Hungary territory and were attacked by the Hungarians, the Bulgarians, and even a Byzantine army near Nis. About a quarter of Peter's followers were killed, but they arrived largely intact at Constantinople in August. Constantinople was big for that time period in Europe, but so was Peter's "army", and cultural difference and a reluctance to supply such a large number of incoming people led to further tensions. In Constantinople , moreover, Peter's followers weren't the only band of crusaders - they joined with other crusading armies from France and Italy. Alexius, not knowing what else to do with such a large and unusual (and foreign) army, quickly ferried them across the Bosporus. After crossing into Asia Minor the Crusaders began to quarrel and the armies broke up into two separate camps. The Turks were experienced, savvy, and had local knowledge; most of the People's Crusade - a bunch of amateur warriors - was massacred upon entering Seljuk territory. Peter survived, however, and would later join the main Crusader army. Another army of Bohemians and Saxony did not make it past Hungary before splitting up. ===The German Crusade=== ''Main article: German Crusade, 1096'' The First Crusade ignited a long tradition of organized violence against Jews in European culture. While anti-Semitism had existed in Europe for centuries, the First Crusade marks the first mass organized violence against Jewish communities. Setting off in the early summer of 1096, a German army of around 10,000 soldiers led by Gottschalk, Volkmar, and Emich of Leiningen, proceeding northward through the Rhine river valley, in the opposite direction of Jerusalem, began what is known as "the first Holocaust", or pogrom. The preaching of the crusade inspired further anti-Semitism. According to some preachers, Jews and Muslims were enemies of Christ, and enemies were to be fought or converted to Christianity. The general public apparently assumed that "fought" meant "fought to the death", or "killed". The Christian conquest of Jerusalem and the establishment of a Christian emperor there would supposedly instigate the End Times, during which the Jews were supposed to convert to Christianity. In parts of France and Germany, Jews were perceived as just as much of an enemy as Muslims: they were thought to be responsible for the crucifixion, and they were more immediately visible than the far-away Muslims. Many people wondered why they should travel thousands of miles to fight non-believers when there were already non-believers closer to home. The crusaders moved north through the Rhine valley into well-known Jewish communities such as Cologne, and then southward. Jewish communities were given the option of converting to Christianity or be slaughtered. Most would not convert and as news of the mass killings spread many Jewish communities committed mass suicides in horrific scenes. Thousands of Jews were massacred, despite attempts by local clergy and secular authorities to shelter them. The massacres were justified by the claim that Urban's speech at Clermont promised reward from God for killing non-Christians of any sort, not just Muslims. Although the papacy abhorred the purging of Muslim and Jewish inhabitants during this and future crusades, there were numerous attacks on Jews following every crusade movement. ===The Princes' Crusade=== The First Crusade did not end with the disasters of the People's Crusade and the massacres of Jewish people. The Princes' Crusade, also known as the Barons' Crusade, set out later in 1096 in a more orderly manner, led by various nobles with bands of knights from different regions of Europe. The three most significant of these were the papal legate Adhemar of Le Puy; Raymond IV of Toulouse, who represented the knights of Provence; and Bohemund I of Antioch, representing the Normans of southern Italy with his nephew Tancred, Prince of Galilee. Other contingents were Lorrainers under the brothers Godfrey of Bouillon, Eustace III and Baldwin I of Jerusalem; Flemings under Count Robert II of Flanders; northern French Robert Curthose (older brother of King William II of England), Stephen, Count of Blois, and Hugh of Vermandois (younger brother of King Philip I of France, who was forbidden from participating as he was under a ban of excommunication). ====The march to Jerusalem==== Leaving Europe around the appointed time in August, the various armies took different paths to Constantinople and gathered outside its city walls in December of 1096, two months after the annihilation of the People's Crusade by the Turks. Accompanying the knights were many poor men (''pauperes'') who could afford basic clothing and perhaps an old weapon. Peter the Hermit, who joined the Princes' Crusade at Constantinople, was considered responsible for their well-being, and they were able to organize themselves into small groups, perhaps akin to military companies, often led by an impoverished knight. One of the largest of these groups, consisting of the survivors of the People's Crusade, named itself the "Tafurs". The Princes arrived with little food and expected provisions and help from Alexius I. Alexius was understandably suspicious after his experiences with the People's Crusade, and also because the knights included his old Norman enemy Bohemund. In return for food, Alexius I requested the leaders to swear fealty to him and promise to return to the Byzantine Empire any land recovered from the Turks. Without food or provisions they eventually had no choice but to take the oath, though not until all sides had agreed to various compromises, and only after warfare had almost broken out in the city. Only Raymond avoided swearing the oath, instead allying with Alexius against their common enemy Bohemund. Alexius agreed to send out a Byzantine army to accompany the crusaders through Asia Minor. Their first objective was Nicaea, an old Byzantine city, but now the capital of the Seljuk Sultanate of Rüm under Kilij Arslan I. The city was subjected to siege of Nicaea, which was somewhat ineffectual as the crusaders could not blockade the lake on which the city was situated, and from which it could be provisioned. Alexius, fearing the crusaders would sack the city and destroy the wealth it would bring the Byzantine Empire, secretly negotiated the surrender of the city; the crusaders awoke on the morning of June 19, 1097 to see Byzantine standards flying from the walls. To add insult to treachery, the crusaders were not allowed to enter the city except in small escorted bands, so deeply did Alexius distrust them. This caused a further rift between the Byzantines and the crusaders. The crusaders now began the journey to Jerusalem. One crusader wrote home, stating he believed it would take five weeks. In fact, the journey would take two years. The crusaders, still accompanied by some Byzantine troops under Taticius, marched on towards Dorylaeum, where Bohemund was surrounded by Kilij Arslan. At the Battle of Dorylaeum on July 1, Godfrey broke through the Turkish lines, but he too was surrounded, and the two crusader armies were saved only by the timely appearance of the troops led by the legate Adhemar, who defeated the Turks and looted their camp. Kilij Arslan withdrew and the crusaders marched almost unopposed through Asia Minor towards Antioch, except for a battle in September in which they again defeated the Turks. The march through Asia was unpleasant. It was the middle of summer and the crusaders had very little food and water; many men died, as did many horses. Christians, in Asia as in Europe, sometimes gave them gifts of food and money, but more often the crusaders looted and pillaged whenever the opportunity presented itself. Individual leaders continued to dispute the overall leadership, although none of them were powerful enough to take command; still, Raymond and Adhemar were generally recognized as the leaders. After passing through the Cilician Gates, Baldwin of Boulogne set off on his own towards the Armenian lands around the Euphrates. In Edessa, Mesopotamia early in 1098, he was adopted as heir by King Thoros, a Greek Orthodox ruler who was disliked by his Armenian subjects. Thoros was soon assassinated and Baldwin became the new ruler, thus creating the County of Edessa, the first of the crusader states. ====Siege of Antioch==== ''Main article: Siege of Antioch'' The crusader army, meanwhile, marched on to Antioch, which lay about half way between Constantinople and Jerusalem. They arrived in October, 1097 and set it to a siege which lasted almost 8 months. Antioch was so large that the crusaders did not have enough troops to fully surround it, and thus it was able to stay partially supplied. As the siege dragged on, it was clear that Bohemund wanted the city for himself. In May 1098 Kerbogha of Mosul approached Antioch to relieve the siege. Bohemund bribed the Armenian guard of the city to open the gates, and in June the crusaders entered the city and killed most of the inhabitants. However, only a few days later the Muslims arrived, laying siege to the former besiegers. At this point a minor monk by the name of Peter Bartholomew claimed to have discovered the Holy Lance in the city, and although some were skeptical, this was seen as a sign that they would be victorious. On June 28 the crusaders defeated Kerbogha in a pitched battle outside the city, as Kerbogha was unable to organize the different factions in his army. According to legend, an army of Christian saints came to the aid of the crusaders during the battle. Bohemund argued that Alexius had deserted the crusade and thus invalidated all of their oaths to him. Bohemund asserted his claim to Antioch, but not everyone agreed, and the crusade was delayed for the rest of the year while the nobles argued amongst themselves. It is a common historiography assumption that the Franks of northern France, the Provencals of southern France, and the Normans of southern Italy considered themselves separate "nations" and that each wanted to increase its status. This may have had something to do with the disputes, but personal ambition is more likely to blame. Meanwhile a plague (perhaps typhus) broke out, killing many, including the legate Adhemar. There were now even fewer horses than before, and Muslim peasants refused to give them food. The minor knights and soldiers became restless and threatened to continue to Jerusalem without their squabbling leaders. Finally, at the beginning of 1099 the march was renewed, leaving Bohemund behind as the first Principality of Antioch. ====Siege of Jerusalem==== ''Main article: Siege of Jerusalem (1099)'' Proceeding down the coast of the Mediterranean, the crusaders encountered little resistance, as local rulers preferred to make peace with them and give them supplies rather than fight. On May 7 the crusaders reached Jerusalem, which had been recaptured from the Seljuks by the Fatimid of Egypt only the year before. Many Crusaders wept on seeing the city they had journeyed so long to reach. As with Antioch the crusaders put the city to a lengthy siege, in which the crusaders themselves suffered many casualties, due to the lack of food and water around Jerusalem. Of the estimated 7,000 knights who took part in the Princes' Crusade, only about 1,500 remained. Faced with a seemingly impossible task, their morale was raised when a priest by the name of Peter Desiderius claimed to have had a divine vision instructing them to fast and then march in a barefoot procession around the city walls, after which the city would fall in nine days, following the Bible example of Joshua at the siege of Jericho. On July 8, 1099 the crusaders performed the procession as instructed by Desiderius. Meanwhile, siege engines were constructed and seven days later on July 15, the crusaders were able to end the siege by breaking down sections of the walls and entering the city. Over the course of that afternoon, evening and next morning, the crusaders murdered almost every inhabitant of Jerusalem. Muslims, Jews, and even eastern Christians were all massacred. Although many Muslims sought shelter in Solomon's Temple (known today as Al-Aqsa Mosque), the crusaders spared few lives. According to the anonymous ''Gesta Francorum'', in what some believe to be an exaggerated account of the massacre which subsequently took place there, "''...the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles...''"[http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/cde-jlem.html#gesta2]. Other accounts of blood flowing up to the bridles of horses are reminiscent of a passage from the Book of Revelation (14:20). Tancred claimed the Temple in Jerusalem for himself and offered protection to some of the Muslims there, but he was unable to prevent their deaths at the hands of his fellow crusaders. According to Fulcher of Chartres: "''Indeed, if you had been there you would have seen our feet coloured to our ankles with the blood of the slain. But what more shall I relate? None of them were left alive; neither women nor children were spared.''"[http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/cde-jlem.html#fulcher1] In the days following the massacre, Godfrey of Bouillon was made ''Advocatus Sancti Sepulchri'' (''Protector of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre''), refusing to be named king in the city where Christ had died. In the last action of the crusade, he led an army which defeated an invading Fatimid army at the Battle of Ascalon. Godfrey died in July, 1100, and was succeeded by his brother, Baldwin I of Jerusalem of Edessa, who took the title of "Kings of Jerusalem". ===The Crusade of 1101 and the establishment of the kingdom=== ''Main article: Crusade of 1101'' Having captured Jerusalem and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the crusading vow was now fulfilled. However, there were many who had gone home before reaching Jerusalem, and many who had never left Europe at all. When the success of the crusade became known, these people were mocked and scorned by their families and threatened with excommunication by the clergy. Many crusaders who had remained with the crusade all the way to Jerusalem also went home; according to Fulcher of Chartres there were only a few hundred knights left in the newfound kingdom in 1100. In 1101 another crusade set out, including Stephen of Blois and Hugh of Vermandois, both of whom had returned home before reaching Jerusalem. This crusade was mostly annihilated in Asia Minor by the Seljuks, but the survivors helped reinforce the kingdom when they arrived in Jerusalem. In the following years assistance was also provided by Italy merchants who established themselves in the Syrian ports, and from the religious and military orders of the Knights Templars and the Knights Hospitaller which were created during Baldwin I's reign. ==Analysis of the First Crusade== ===Aftermath=== The success of the First Crusade was unprecedented. Newly achieved stability in the west left a warrior aristocracy in search of new conquests and patrimony, and the new prosperity of major towns also meant that money was available to equip expeditions. The Italian naval towns, in particular Venice and Genoa, were interested in extending trade. The Papacy saw the Crusades as a way to assert Catholic influence as a unifying force, with war as a religious mission. This was a new attitude to religion: it brought religious discipline, previously applicable to monks, to soldiery—the new concept of a religious warrior and the chivalric ethos. The First Crusade succeeded in establishing the "Crusader State" of County of Edessa, Principality of Antioch, Kingdom of Jerusalem, and County of Tripoli in Palestine (region) and Syria. Back at home in western Europe, those who had survived to reach Jerusalem were treated as heroes. Robert of Flanders was nicknamed "Hierosolymitanus" thanks to his exploits. The life of Godfrey of Bouillon became legendary even within a few years of his death. In some cases the political situation at home was greatly affected by absence on the crusade: while Robert Curthose was away, Normandy had passed to his brother Henry I of England, and their conflict resulted in the Battle of Tinchebrai in 1106. Meanwhile the establishment of the crusader states in the east helped ease Seljuk pressure on the Byzantine Empire, which had regained some of its Anatolian territory with crusader help, and experienced a period of relative peace and prosperity in the 12th century. The effect on the Muslim dynasties of the east was gradual but important. The instability of the Muslim territories in the east had at first prevented a coherent defense against the aggressive and expansionist Latin states. Cooperation between them remained difficult for many decades, but from Egypt to Syria to Baghdad there were calls for the expulsion of the crusaders, culminating in the relative unity of the eastern Muslim world and the recapture of Jerusalem under Saladin later in the century. ===The pilgrims=== Although it is called the First Crusade, no one saw themselves as a "crusader." The term ''crusade'' is an early 12th century term that first appears in Latin over 100 years after the "first" crusade. Nor did the "crusaders" see themselves as the first, since they did not know there would be more. They saw themselves simply as pilgrims (''peregrinatores'') on a journey (''iter''), and were referred to as such in contemporary accounts. ===Popularity of the Crusade=== What started as a minor call for military aid turned in to a mass migration of peoples. The call to go on crusade was very popular. Two medieval roles, holy warrior and pilgrim, were merged into one. Like a holy warrior in a holy war, one would carry a weapon and fight for the Church with all its spiritual benefits, including the privilege of an indulgence or martyrdom if one died in battle. Like a pilgrim on a pilgrimage, one would have the right to hospitality and personal protection of self and property by the Church. The benefits of the indulgence were therefore twofold, both for fighting as a warrior of the Church and for travelling as a pilgrim. Thus, an indulgence would be granted regardless of whether one lived or died. In addition, there were feudal obligations, as many crusaders went because they were commanded by their lord and had no choice. There were also family obligations, with many people joining the crusade in order to support relatives who had also taken the crusading vow. All of these motivated different people for different reasons and contributed to the popularity of the crusade. ===Spiritual versus earthly rewards=== Older scholarship on this issue asserts that the bulk of the participants were likely younger sons of nobles who were dispossessed of land and influenced by the practise of primogeniture, and poorer knights who were looking for a new life in the wealthy east. However, current research suggests that although Urban promised crusaders spiritual as well as material benefit, the primary aim of most crusaders was spiritual rather than material gain. Moreover, recent research by Jonathan Riley-Smith instead shows that the crusade was an immensely expensive undertaking, affordable only to those knights who were already fairly wealthy, such as Hugh of Vermandois and Robert Curthose, who were relatives of the French and English royal families, and Raymond of Toulouse, who ruled much of southern France. Even then, these wealthy knights had to sell much of their land to relatives or the church before they could afford to participate. Their relatives, too, often had to impoverish themselves in order to raise money for the crusade. As Riley-Smith says, "''there really is no evidence to support the proposition that the crusade was an opportunity for spare sons to make themselves scarce in order to relieve their families of burdens.''" (''The First Crusade and the Idea of Crusading'', pg. 47) As an example of spiritual over earthly motivation, Godfrey of Bouillon and his brother Baldwin settled previous quarrels with the church by bequeathing their land to local clergy. The charters denoting these transactions were written by clergymen, not the knights themselves, and seem to idealize the knights as pious men seeking only to fulfill a vow of pilgrimage. Further, poorer knights (''minores'', as opposed to the greater knights, the ''principes'') could go on crusade only if they expected to survive off of almsgiving, or if they could enter the service of a wealthier knight, as was the case with Tancred, who agreed to serve his uncle Bohemund. Later crusades would be organized by wealthy kings and emperors, or would be supported by special crusade taxes. ==Selected sources and further reading== ===Primary sources=== *Albert of Aix, ''Historia Hierosolymitana'' *Anna Comnena, ''The Alexiad'' *Guibert of Nogent, ''Dei gesta per Francos'' *Fulcher of Chartres, ''Historia Hierosolymitana'' *''Gesta Francorum'' (anonymous) *Peter Tudebode, ''Historia de Hierosolymitano itinere'' *Raymond of Aguilers, ''Historia Francorum qui ceperunt Iherusalem'' ===Primary sources online=== *Selected letters by Crusaders: **Anselme of Ribemont, [http://history.hanover.edu/texts/1stCrusade1.htm Anselme of Ribemont, Letter to Manasses II, Archbishop of Reims] (1098) **Stephen, Count of Blois and Chartres, [http://history.hanover.edu/texts/1stcrusade2.html Letter to his wife, Adele] (1098) **Daimbert, Godfrey and Raymond, [http://history.hanover.edu/texts/1stcru3.html Letter to the Pope], (1099) *[http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook1k.html#The%20First%20Crusade Online primary sources] from the Internet Medieval Sourcebook **Peter the Hermit and the Popular Crusade: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/peterhermit.html Collected Accounts]. **The Crusaders Journey to Constantinople: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/cde-tocp.html Collected Accounts]. **The Crusaders at Constantinople: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/cde-atcp.html Collected Accounts]. **The Siege and Capture of Nicea: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/cde-nicea.html Collected Accounts]. **The Siege and Capture of Antioch: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/cde-antioch.html Collected Accounts]. **The Siege and Capture of Jerusalem: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/cde-jlem.html Collected Accounts]. *Fulcher of Chartres: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/fulk2.html The Capture of Jerusalem], 1099. *Ekkehard of Aura: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/ekkehard-aur1.html On the Opening of the First Crusade]. *Albert of Aix and Ekkehard of Aura: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/1096jews.html Emico and the Slaughter of the Rhineland Jews]. *Soloman bar Samson: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/1096jews-mainz.html The Crusaders in Mainz], attacks on Rhineland Jewry. *Ali ibn Tahir Al-Sulami (d. 1106): [http://www.arts.cornell.edu/prh3/447/texts/Sulami.html Kitab al-Jihad] (extracts). First known Islamic discussion of the concept of jihad written in the aftermath of the First Crusade. ===Secondary sources=== *Asbridge, Thomas. ''The First Crusade: A New History''. Oxford: 2004. ISBN 0195178238. *Bartlett, Robert. ''The Making of Europe: Conquest, Colonization and Cultural Exchange, 950–1350''. Princeton: 1993. *Chazan, Robert. ''In the Year 1096: The First Crusade and the Jews''. Jewish Publication Society, 1997. ISBN 0827605757. *Hillenbrand, Carole. ''The Crusades: Islamic Perspectives''. Routledge, 2000. ISBN 0415929148. *Holt, P.M. ''The Age of the Crusades: The Near East from the Eleventh Century to 1517''. Longman, 1989. ISBN 0582493021. *Mayer, Hans Eberhard. ''The Crusades''. John Gillingham, translator. Oxford: 1988. ISBN 0198730977. *Riley-Smith, Jonathan. ''The First Crusade and the Idea of Crusading''. University of Pennsylvania: 1991. ISBN 0812213637. *Riley-Smith, Jonathan, editor. ''The Oxford History of the Crusades''. Oxford: 2002. ISBN 0192803123. *Runciman, Steven. ''The First Crusaders, 1095–1131'', Cambridge: 1998. ISBN 0521646030. *Setton, Kenneth, editor. ''A History of the Crusades.'' Madison: 1969–1989 ([http://libtext.library.wisc.edu/HistCrusades/ available online]). ===Bibliographies=== *[http://www.deremilitari.org/biblio/firstcrusade.htm Bibliography of the First Crusade (1095-1099)] compiled by Alan V. Murray, Institute for Medieval Studies, University of Leeds. Extensive and up to date as of 2004. Crusades 1090s

First Crusade



:::Featured on Dec. 27 2004 ---------------------------------------- Spoken Wikipedia I thought about nominating also. It would require reading the "Main article"'s as well, IMO, since they contain the real story, otherwise it would be a brief treatment hard to say how valuable it would be.User:Stbalbach 16:29, 29 May 2005 (UTC) ---- Full of Errors I teach college courses on the crusades and will try to edit this page if I find time. As it stands it is completely misleading, and seems to reflect Terry Jones' views in the BBC documentary series on the crusades. The same seems to be true for other pages on the crusades. Sample errors 1. The Battle of Manzikert was in 1071, not 1074. 2. There is no evidence Gregory VII was thinking about "reunion" as the date of 1054 for the Schism of east and western Christianity is purely notional. 3. Urban II had no idea he was calling a "crusade" [the word and its cognates was not used until the end of the 12th century - at the time the expeditions were called "iter" /journey or "peregrinatio"/pilgrimage. 4. The cry at Clermont was "Deus le volt1" 5. The pope had never read the Qur'an (it was not availble in Latin until Peter the Venerable had it translated it in the mid 12th century). The indulgence (the word "plenary" was not used, and in fact belongs to the development of the theology of indulgences in the mid 13th century) does not echo any Qur'anic notions. [Most Mulsim notions of Jihad derive from discussions among Sharia jurists rather than the Qur'an in any case.] 6. There is no evidence whatsoever that younger sons were attracted to the crusades for economic reasons. Painstaking research by historians such as J. Riley-Smith has shown that whole aristocratic families put themselves into debt to support members going on the expedition. When Jerusalem was conquered, almost 90% of the survivors returned home. Venice, Genoa, and Pisa had almost nothing to do with the First Crusade. The great trade advantages to these cities really only emerged in the 13th century - i.e. after the loss of Jerusalem by the Crusaders and the establishment of the rump Kingdom in Acre. 7. Many of the "peasants" in the people's crusade were in fact lower level knights. Given the extent of tied labor, most peasants could not simply get up and leave. At the most, the armies were around 50,000-60,000 - a miniscule percentage of the population. 8. "Fanatical bands" is definitely not NPOV. 9. Peter's armies were quite well organized. How else could such a group be marched all the way to Constantinople? The provisioning alone was a major daily achievement - mostly done by purchase from local merchants, along with some robbery. 10. Peter's armies did not massacre Jews. Emerich's did. 11. Peter's army was quite well armed. See the chronicle of Albert of Aachen on this. 12. Peter's army reached Constantinople more or less intact. Alexius I Comnenus arranged for its transport to Asia Minor. Then, at a battle outside Nicea (100 miles from CP), many of the People's Crusade members were defeated in battle. 13. The pope did not call for the killing of Jews, as noted. However, there were massacres of Jews in later Crusades, specifically the 2nd Crusade. 14. I don't know of any account that says Jews were burned in a synagogue in Jerusalem. The account of blood running ankle deep on the Temple Mount is a literary hyperbole. 15. The Knights Hospitallers existed before the Crusades as a pilgrims' help organization. :Well you are certainly encouraged to fix errors, but I have a few questions/comments on some of your points: 2: Why is 1054 "purely notional"? That's when the Pope and Patriarch excommunicated each other, and was the Papacy not looking to heal that schism? 3: It's an historical convention to refer to it as a crusade...surely we are not going to say "he called for an ''iter''". (They didn't call it the "Great Schism" in 1054, either...) 4: I have seen it written in Latin (Deus vult), Old French (Deus lo/le volt) and even modern French - do we really know what they said, or if they ever said that at all? Was Urban preaching in (Old) French, or Latin? (I assume French!) 15: True, but they weren't established as a military order until afterwards. :I'm sure I'm responsible for many of these errors, and it would be great to have actual scholars working on these crusade articles. I hope you are willing to stick around for awhile! User:Adam Bishop 18:15, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC) ::Now that I look at it again, some of the problems actually come from the original article, which was copied from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica - so naturally it was horribly out of date. (Though I can still see where I have added misleading bits as well.) User:Adam Bishop 23:12, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC) Okay, if our anonymous prof is still around, I have tried to rewrite the page, at least the first half (and I'll get to the rest when I have time). I hope it now more accurately reflects recent research. User:Adam Bishop 03:13, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC) ---------------------------------------- Poor writing examples: Horrible example 1 ::The First Crusade was launched in 1099 to take back Jerusalem from the Muslims, and to help the Byzantine Empire fight the Seljuk Turks. "Take back?" By who? What does it mean to "take back" something? Horrible example 2 ::The number of those who assumed the crusader's cross increased daily, and the movement, soon passing beyond papal restraint, seized upon the lower classes. Peasants exchanged plows for arms and were joined by the dissatisfied, the oppressed, and the outcast; members of the lower clergy, runaway monks, women, and children joined this popular mob, recognizing no leader but God. *"The number of those who assumed the crusader's cross??" Good writing for a track - not for an encyclopedia, thanks. *If "no leader but God" is to be used -- it needs to be in quotes, with attribution. ::"Peter survived however..." *"Peter survived however?" What did he "survive"? According to the previous text, he was doing the massacring! LOL -User:Stevertigo :Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I was writing around the entries before me. I haven't been here that long, but I am under the impression that the point of Wikipedia is to constantly improve on the articles to make them the best they can be - which you have done. But I'm pretty sure that does not include being a jackass at the same time :) User:Adam Bishop 01:09 3 Jul 2003 (UTC) The jackass bit was entirely ''gratis,'' no need to thank me -- and yes, the article was incredibly well written except for those few problems I mentioned... perhaps it was the desparity between these that caused me some causation to 'scribe my consternation. :) -User:Stevertigo ------ I removed this text: :''The papacy was concerned by Muslim raids on Sicily (Sicily itself was nominally Muslim). The Pope was unwilling to ask the German emperor for help (as the emperors were traditionally in rivalry with the Papacy), so instead he invited the Normans already in southern Italy to intervene. Robert Guiscard then took control of Sicily, the Pope 'granting' it to him, and it became a tightly-controlled monarchy under the Normans.'' It's okay, but the grant was made two years ''after'' the start of the Crusade, in 1098. I substituted text about pressing back Muslim boundaries in the central Mediterranean. User:Wetman 12:02, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC) == Major Edit to Origins == I have Be_bold_in_updating_pages, but not too boldly I hope. Much of the material in the "Origins" section more rightly belongs, or is duplicated in, the main Crusades article. At least that's my feeling. Let me know if you think I've been too bold :) User:Maastrictian 21:51, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC) :Why was the Peace and Truce of God movement removed.. or not moved to the main article? Editing boldy means moving the material to the correct place, not just deleteing it. Peace and Truce of God and the Crusades are the two major institutions enacted by the church to stem noble violence in the High Middle Ages.User:Stbalbach 03:02, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC) ::Moving it to the main article seems the best choice to me at least. I'll do that when I get a chance today. User:Maastrictian 14:34, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) :::Moved. User:Maastrictian 19:32, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) :Oh...sorry. I thought you were just some vandal! I guess you might want to revert my revert, or talk about the changes here first, maybe. User:Adam Bishop 21:52, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC) ::No problem. I see that I forgot to add a comment to my edit, which probably made me look like even more of a vandal. Sorry for the confusion. User:Maastrictian 14:34, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) == Possible "to do" list == To Stbalbach and all others who may be interested, I think this article is progressing to the point where it could be a Wikipedia:Featured articles. But what else needs to be done before that? We now have separate articles for the sieges of Antioch and Jerusalem, but should other bits be expanded in their own separate articles? Such as: *Battle of Nicaea - there is plenty of info about it in both Latin and Greek authors, it could easily be a separate article. *Battle of Dorylaeum - the info about the battle already exists, in a small summary, at Dorylaeum; perhaps it needs to be moved to a separate battle article, if it is worthy of being expanded. *Should any other battles in Asia Minor have articles, or should they just be mentioned here in passing? *Should the siege of Arqa and the first battle of Ascalon be treated as separate from the Siege of Jerusalem? (Someone was going to write about the 1153 Battle of Ascalon, a long time ago, I'll have to see if I can find them again - perhaps all the battles there during the crusades can go in one article.) *should the crusade of 1101 have a separate article? Those are the questions I can come up - are there any other issues? Would the present state of the article be any more academically pleasing than the older version the anonymous professor was complaining about above? Is this article and its associated subarticles getting ''too'' big, or is plenty of detail a good thing? User:Adam Bishop 02:17, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC) :Adam, first off, excellent job on Antioch and Jerusalem, very good articles. I was thinking of writing up a more detailed article on the peasants war, have not had the time lately but is on my mental to-do list. All the ideas you mention could easily be expanded on, featured article is a worthy goal. User:Stbalbach 12:27, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC) In terms of the article itself, I've not finished, but two points so far - firstly, some more information on the Middle Eastern background/situation would, I think, be a good idea. Currently it's pretty tightly focused on the west. Some discussion of the Seljuk Turks' arrival, the death of Malik Shah in 1092, and the ongoing break-up of the Seljuk Empire (with the various players involved) as the crusaders start to arrive should probably be mentioned. Secondly, the historiographical paragraph on the crusaders' socio-economic background discusses "Hugh," "Raymond," "Godfrey," "Baldwin," and, worst of all, since there were two of them, "Robert" without any mention of who these people are - they are introduced later on in the article. This needs to be fixed. More comments as I get further into it. As to the questions above, the First Battle of Ascalon occurred after Jerusalem fell - it should, I think, have its own article, ideally. The Crusades of 1101 would certainly merit an article as well. User:John Kenney User_talk:John Kenney 06:39, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC) :Okay, a bit about the Muslim background has been added, with all (I think) the relevant entities (Rüm, Mosul, Aleppo, Damascus, the Danishmends, the Ortuqids, the Hashshashin, the Fatimids). Conveniently there are already articles about most of that stuff. I fixed the paragraph with out-of-context names - that had been lower down before, after their full names were already mentioned. As User:Wetman suggested, this could really use a map, but I haven't been able to find one in the public domain. User:Adam Bishop 01:48, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC) Looks good enough to be a featured article but if you really wonder what is absolutely missing you might go re-read the very good Norman conquest article and ponder how the aftermath of this adventure, including the formation of the Angevin empire, fits in with the first crusade. Was the whole of northern france too busy with subjugating the anglo saxons to be bothered with crusading? And what all those other Norman nobles are doing in Italy at the same time? --User:AlainV 02:04, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC) :Well, I know it had an effect on who controlled Normany and England - Robert Curthose had to sell Normandy to go on crusade, and while he was gone his brother Henry I of England became king of England. This also led to the Battle of Tinchebrai. But they weren't really subjugating the Anglo-Saxons anymore by that point, were they? Anyway, should we add this somehow? Perhaps in a "effect on Europe" section? Maybe it should go in the Curthose article, it's pretty short right now. As for the Normans in Italy, well, a lot of Bohemund's family went on crusade with him, I don't know what else they were doing in general. User:Adam Bishop 02:52, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC) Well, some interpretations of the Robin Hood legend portray him as a Saxon fighting the Norman lords while Richard I of England is off crusading. So that would mean that the place is still not completely pacified. The problem is that I am not sure how to put this in and the article is good enough anyway, even if there are a lot of potential linkages missing. --User:AlainV 02:28, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC) :That's actually the Third Crusade, but the point is still valid...there was Hereward the Wake, a similar figure, much closer to the Conquest and the First Crusade. User:Adam Bishop 06:48, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC) Just wanted to note the progress of related articles - Siege of Nicaea, Battle of Dorylaeum, and Battle of Ascalon now exist. User:Adam Bishop 20:55, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC) And now also People's Crusade, thanks to Stbalbach. By the way, I notice on the French wikipedia that they seem to be simultaneously working on their First Crusade articles, but I think independently of us - that's pretty cool. They also have a , maybe we should set up something like that as well. User:Adam Bishop 01:00, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC) Nice work on the 1101 crusade, I never knew about it, interesting well written article. On the projects, I'm currently interested in medieval history so would be more interested in a general medieval project page. There may be a number of other medievalists around to help draw on more detailed projects once we form a more general group. Just some thoughts. --User:Stbalbach 08:22, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) :Yeah that's a good idea, there are a few medievalists around in various subjects. Also, thanks to Wetman, there is now also a Chanson d'Antioche article. User:Adam Bishop 18:25, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) == Paragraph moves == I just made some structural changes to the article, no content was lost, just paragraphs moved. We want this article (and all the sub-articles) to be a "featured article" and part of that is telling the story of the First Crusade in a compelling and interesting manner. The Crusades is most interesting and compelling when read in chronological order, as a chronology or narrative story. So I moved the academic analysis, which tends to break the narrative, to a seperate section. In this way the reader can read the article and get the whole story of the Crusades, without distraction in the more academic (although important) analysis which is in a seperate section of the article. This should also help keep future editors from breaking the chronology with analysis by having a seperate area to work in. User:Stbalbach 02:47, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::More re-ordering of paragraphs. Again, idea is to create a section that is a chronical of events, and a section with analysis. Floating the idea out to see how it looks and goes over, not set in stone open to ideas and suggestions. User:Stbalbach 20:24, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC) I've done some reordering and rewording as well. Now that all the major parts have their own separate articles, and we've extensively rewritten the page, is there anything else we can do? I think everyones' concerns have been dealt with. Should we put it on Featured Article Candidates? It would be nice to have some new eyes looking at this. User:Adam Bishop 03:52, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) :Yes I agree. There are a few more things we could still do; a German crusade article comes to mind, it's the first pogrom and deserves an article (it may allready be, perhaps under a diffrent title or sub-section or name related to Jewish history). It's a good idea to announce and see what recommendations others have. --User:Stbalbach 06:23, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::Oh yeah, that would make a good article. I don't know much about that part, except for what is already here (and in Emich of Leiningen). What title could we use for that? "German Crusade" can refer to a bunch of other minor crusades so I don't think it would be the best title for a separate article. Anyway, I've added this to the featured article candidate list. User:Adam Bishop 09:13, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::We need 3 or 4 pictures on the main article page to liven it up. Also an overview map, and perhaps someone who can add arrows showing the routes taken (or if one allready exists in the PD). That would really help to see a map. I've looked around and so far no luck. --User:Stbalbach 10:51, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) ---- Changes: Addressed some concerns by "Ambi" as a "minor object" on the featured article page. Made the opening paragraph high level with few specifics and more generalized, to provide context / meaning. Moved to sub-article or integrated the historian nameing conventions (needs to be there, for search and refrence, but not up-front). --User:Stbalbach 04:17, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) Great! I made German Crusade, 1096 as well - perhaps not the best title, but we can fix that later if necessary. I agree that there should also be more pictures in the article, but I'm not sure what we can use. I can't find any good PD maps online...if we're really desperate I suppose we can draw some lines on a blank map of Europe, but I hope it doesn't come to that! User:Adam Bishop 01:20, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC) Cool on the German Crusade. I think the name is NPOV enough and seems to have a historical precedent, unless theres another name more commonly used. On the Map: Muir's Historical Atlas: (1911) has the exact map we need, which can be [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/maps/1090map.htm seen here] .. but, its a clickable format which is no good. There is also [http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Italian_Studies/dweb/images/maps/decworld/Crusades_1905.jpg this map] which is a blank slate to add arrows if we had too. I wonder if theres a way to find the 1911 Muir's map which is in the public domain, it must be online somewhere. --User:Stbalbach 06:59, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC) :Found a map.. it's 712k not sure if that presents a problem, but the print and route arrows are so small its the only way to read it. Still, best map ive seen in terms of route detail.--User:Stbalbach 08:13, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC) Define what the crusade was somewhat better in the intro. I'm thinking, "The First Crusade was a religiously-based military campaign launched by Pope Urban II in 1095 that was designed to restore Christian rule to Jerusalem and the Holy Land, which were then ruled by Muslims; this objective was achieved in July 1099." Something along those lines? User:Everyking 01:57, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) :A religious military campaign from the pov of the 21st century. For the crusaders, they were pilgrims on a holy mission from god, pilgrims who happened to carry swords, pilgrims who would recieve an automatic ticket to heaven. For the Byzantine Emporer, it was a barbarian invasion. All this is discussed in the article. I don't think we should try to define it in the opening paragraph, it may even escape definition at all, as multiple pov events often do. Rather, summarize and say why it is significant to history on a high level. I do think the article is missing this element: a discussion about why the crusades are significant, the various ideas and theories. However, it belongs in the main Crusades article not the First Crusade. --User:Stbalbach 07:49, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) Point taken, then, but I took it upon myself to expand the intro a bit; hopefully there's nothing wrong with what I added. User:Everyking 10:34, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC) :What you wrote is fine. Sounds like whats wanted is more bulk in the lead section so I added some for review. --User:Stbalbach 03:36, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC) == Pope Urban's proclamation at Clermont == I'd just like to add that there is disagreement as to whether Urban ever mentioned Jerusalem at Clermont, and thus this was not necessarily the original aim of the crusade. Commonalities between the accounts of his speech are generally agreed upon, but the earliest accounts do not mention Jerusalem. Later accounts do, but arguably by this point they would have known that the crusade had captured Jerusalem, and thus have claimed that this was the original aim. Jerusalem may have been introduced around 1096 to aid recruitment. Here is a link to a website that has a few accounts: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html Medieval Sourcebook] Also, in answer to 'Horrible example 1', it is not so unreasonable to say that the first crusade was launched to 'take back' Jerusalem. Jerusalem was the Holy Land, and was considered formerly owned land. The definition of a 'Just War' was specifically defined by the Church, and thus Christian property that had been proclamed as such by a legitimate authority could be retaken. --User:Hugo Thorneycroft 14:24, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC) :Hi! The various accounts of the council are discussed in the Council of Clermont article (with links to Halsall's website), although if the disagreements aren't adequately discussed in this article, then perhaps we should make that clearer. User:Adam Bishop 15:19, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC) == Nitpicking... == That blank line at the top to make room for the template... not very attractive, huh? --User:Tildebeeplus 06:16, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC) ==Final sentence in the lead paragraph== The POV word ''successful'' popped out at me when looking at an upcoming Featured Article: the First Crusade. This is just asking for angry reaction from anyone outside of Christendom. Due to the urgency of this, I am unilaterally changing the sense of the sentence to something like ''the crusades which followed were relative failures''. User:Ancheta Wis 10:33, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC) Please respond or fix the sentence if you wish. :Successful was being used in a neutral sense, I don't think anyone could have seriously interpreted that to mean anything else. However, to avoid political correctness concerns I have re-worded so there is no ambiguity. User:Stbalbach 17:14, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC) ---- Jesus! I cannot see how the fall of the Carolingians and the Christianization of Vikings and Magyars led to the Iberian (and not Spanish) Reconquista! It sure looks like TV-history. User:Velho :Well, that's not really what it says, but I suppose it can be taken that way since the paragraphs follow each other. What would you suggest? User:Adam Bishop 02:58, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC) == Template needed == Since Crusade was essentialy a war, this needs to use the :Template:Battlebox, like seen on Polish-Soviet War for example. --User:Piotrus User_talk:Piotrus 12:21, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC) :I would disagree with that for a number of reasons. User:Stbalbach 17:30, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC) :: Them being? --User:Piotrus User_talk:Piotrus 19:06, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC) Well, again, there's the fact that the Battlebox is for battles, not wars. Will you ever respond to this? User:John Kenney User_talk:John Kenney 02:16, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC) : But of course. Think of it as an evolution. This template has been designed for battles, but it has been so good that it can be adapted with little trouble to wars, making them more readable. --User:Piotrus User_talk:Piotrus 10:48, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC) Plus the Crusades is not a series of battles, nor was it a war, it is a political and social movement that ran across every aspect of society. These were mass migrations of peoples. To tag a battle box on these article makes them in to, well, articles about battles, which they are not (although battles did occur). Not to mention, the Crusaders did not see themselves as fighting a war, they saw themselves as pilgrims. There is a whole section on this in the article, you should read it. To make it into a war with a series of battles is highly POV, it also means you would have "sides" and "winners and loosers" , again, very POV, and not very professional. --User:Stbalbach 03:48, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC) : Well, as far as Crusade goes, I am not going to argue strongly for this box, although I'd suggest moving this article from War section of Featured Articles to another then. I don't see POV here, and I do think that things like campaignbox and chronological list of battles (there were battles, weren't they?) would be useful, but I am willing to wait and see if I am alone on this here... --User:Piotrus User_talk:Piotrus 10:48, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC) :We do have battleboxes on the battle articles (and a campaignbox), but as Stbalbach said there is more going on than a series of battles. We discussed moving it out of the War category but no one has gotten around to doing it yet. User:Adam Bishop 16:52, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC) ::It's now moved from the "War" category to "History" in the FA list. User:Stbalbach 05:40, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC) == siege of Jerusalem == Comments and discussion in relation to characterisation of crusaders displaying 'murderous intent' and related issues is sought. Premise A: such characterisation does not lack NPOV when the killings were in fact intentional and systematic (compare 'evil intent'). Premise B: general characterisation of the accounts of this event as hyperbole (as compared with say, Rev 14:20) may itself lack NPOV to the extent that the brutality and scale of the massacres is discounted (by a draft which does not appropriately note the very real enthusiasm displayed by most crusaders in murdering the inhabitants of Jerusalem). Separately, the main article on the siege should be edited to improve consistency with this article — 21 Feb 2005.

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