Dabljuh

User West63 recently edited Cheating in Counter-Strike. The edit looks a little bit messy, but I didn't want to delete it because I'm afraid that I may delete useful information. Since you're the unofficial owner of this article, could you correct the edit? When I get more time, I'll continue proofreading from "Analysis" onward. BTW, Cheating in Counter-Strike is an excellent article. If only it were a more verifiable topic (I understand that due to its nature, it is hard to cite sources), it may have a chance at being a featured article. User:Someone42 05:16, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC) :Your praise is appreciated. I'd love to see it as a featured article some day, but it just isn't the type of topic that can be featured easily. I moved most of West63's additions to a separate article. I think this article may start circulate in cheater forums and then a lot of these people will either vandalize it or give additions of that kind. Check out Popular Counter-Strike hacks, its an attempt to at least channel the 'productive' part. User:Dabljuh 08:41, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC) == "Conspiracy theory" titles == How do people "know what to expect" if conspiracy theory has 2 ambiguously contradictory definitions? User:Zen-master User talk:Zen-master 21:49, 10 May 2005 (UTC) : I'm psychic User:Dabljuh 21:54, 10 May 2005 (UTC) ==Beat== Varb: beat (beat,beaten) 1. Come out better in a competition, race, or conflict "Agassi beat Becker in the tennis championship"; "We beat the competition" The end. - User:Vague Rant | User talk:Vague Rant 06:04, May 15, 2005 (UTC) : Yes, that's a dictionary entry alright. Unfortunately it's wrong when talking about Counter-Strike. The correct word to use is pwn User:Dabljuh 06:06, 15 May 2005 (UTC) ::Explain how it's wrong and I'll worship you. - User:Vague Rant | User talk:Vague Rant 06:10, May 15, 2005 (UTC) :::Its wrong like using the term ''gunning down'' or ''shooting'' in Boxing (given there is no gun involved). Or ''Driver Joe Sixpack SCORES'' in Racing. Its not what happens or what is going down. You don't ''beat'' someone in Counter-Strike, this is against the very nature of the game. Why do you think they invented words like ''pwn'' ? Because normal language can not adequately describe of what is happening. :::I like to be called The True And Only, and I demand annual Virgin sacrifice. User:Dabljuh 06:17, 15 May 2005 (UTC) ::::So in your (may I add, considerable) vocabulary, "Come out better in a competition, race, or conflict" is not adequate in what way, exactly? - User:Vague Rant | User talk:Vague Rant 06:21, May 15, 2005 (UTC) :::::'''You don't beat someone in Counter-Strike. Looking at your user page I infer that you play consoles, mostly. Concidentally, only a complete''' n00b would use the term ''to beat'' in Counter-Strike. See, the word may have an use in ordered competitions (clan wars) where one clan may beat another, but ordered competitions are comparably rare, as this case is about public servers, where people join and go on the fly, switch sides, work with, without or against their own team etc. Even in those cases where the usage may be semantically correct, it would not be used by anyone experienced because it is such a clear indication of ''n00b-ness''. 3 points why it is not: :::::1. Counter-Strike is a team based game. If anyone could ''beat'' anyone else, then it would be one team to ''beat'' the other. No single player ''beats'' another single player, because of team mechanics. Unless in competitions or dedicated 1 vs 1 matches. :::::2. Counter-Strike teams are made on the fly and are usually random. So lets say one team ''beats'' the other team on a public server, this may be because of advantage in numbers. The game may quickly change when a more powerful player switches to the weaker team. Public servers do not have a dedicated 'beginning' or end, even though they have rounds and map rotations, since people come and go all the time. This would be necessary for someone ''to beat'' anyone. :::::3. Similiarly, one player may have a streak of bad luck and die continuously, and 10 minutes later (apparently) dominate the whole server. Neither of which can be adequately described as ''one team beating the other'' because the teams involved may still win / lose at the same rate. It is simply a matter of ''pwning''. In one situation, he sucks, in the other situation he pwns. :::::Also, churches shall be built with glass windows that feature attractive naked (bisexual) lesbians engaged in naughtyness. User:Dabljuh 06:42, 15 May 2005 (UTC) ::::::Before I start, I shall direct you to Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Once you're done, you may continue. ::::::*"only a complete n00b would use the term ''to beat'' in Counter-Strike." Fine. Is Wikipedia ''Counter-Strike''? ::::::*You say that "... the word may have an use in ordered competitions," but give no reasoning whatsoever as to why this is so. Care to try? ::::::*You also say that it would not be used as it is an indication of "n00b-ness" in the CS community. Again, Wikipedia is not CS (though do feel free to prove that I'm mistaken in this belief). ::::::*It is not relevant that CS is a team-based game. One or more players can best (beat) one or more other players. ::::::*Regardless of how often one is beaten (even if one is only beaten once), they are beaten. I have no idea where you're going with the line of reasoning that a server must begin or end for anyone to be beaten. ::::::*"In one situation, he sucks, in the other situation he pwns." In response: "In one situation, he is beaten, in the other situation is beats others." ::::::I have nothing more to say. - User:Vague Rant | User talk:Vague Rant 07:08, May 15, 2005 (UTC) ::::::::That wasn't a personal attack, that was an observation. If you find it to be a personal attack when someone observes you don't know the first thing about something, well. Prepare to be disappointed. Beating, Defeating, Fragging, Pwning are all different things in Counter-Strike. (well, except the first two). Should I start editing, I don't know, psychology articles and replace ''paranoid schizophrenia'' everywhere with ''crazy ass sick'' because I feel that ''paranoid schizophrenia'' isn't encyclopedic language? Or that ''paranoid schizophrenia'' would be better described as ''crazy ass sick''? It would be just plain wrong. If I run around "correcting" articles where I have no idea about the subject, would I oppose it if someone experienced with the subject says "well I appreciate your efforts but that correction you made there is just wrong". No I wouldn't. I would say "sorry, didn't know there is such a big difference between those terms" I could have gone and just reverted your edit but instead I decided to explain to you why I am going to do that. Be a man and admit you've been, er, beaten, or whatever. User:Dabljuh 07:30, 15 May 2005 (UTC) :::::::::You can go ahead and swap ''crazy ass sick'' for ''paranoid schizophrenia'' if you like--it would only show that you don't know the first thing about paranoid schizophrenia and are a n00b (since you've established that that's not a personal attack), and just plain wrong. Feel free to revert, I'll revert in turn, because Wikipedia is for everyone, not for ''Counter-Strike'' players, and we use generalised terms where possible. You still have not shown how ''beat'' and ''pwn'' are different, though you make such a point of it. Interestingly, the Wikipedia article pwn has this to say: "The word ''pwn'' (past tense: ''pwned'', ''pwnd'', ''pwn'd'', or ''pwnt'') as used by the Internet video game subculture, means to beat or dominate an opponent." Indicate how they are different, don't just say they are. If you are able to do that, which I'm becoming skeptical of, then I will say "sorry, didn't know there is such a big difference between those terms." - User:Vague Rant | User talk:Vague Rant 08:37, May 15, 2005 (UTC) ::::::::::''To Dominate'' Would be a much closer translation of ''pwn'' in the circumstances. Elaborating what the different terms mean (Specific to Counter-Strike, may apply to other games as well) ::::::::::Fragging: Means you gunned someone down. ::::::::::Planting the bomb: Only applicable on the T side on defusion scenarios: means the player or team in question makes an essential step towards winning the round. ::::::::::Winning the round: Means your team wins the round ::::::::::Winning the map: Only applicable in clan wars, means one clan defeated another in one instance of the map. ::::::::::Winning A Match: Only applicable in ordered competitions, meaning one clan defeated another clan according to the rules of the competition. ::::::::::Winning A competition: Only applicable in ordered competitions, meaning one clan is selected the winner of a competition according to the rules of the competition. ::::::::::Pwning: A display of great skill which may or may not lead to Fragging, Planting the bomb, Winning the round, Winning the map, winning the match or winning a competition. Usually leads to fear and a degenerate playstyle with the victims of the pwn4ge. ::::::::::You see, it is perfectly possible for someone to pwn without ''beating'' anyone and vice versa. In the section in question, alternatives for ''pwnd'' would be ''fragged hard'' (especially violent and swift frags) or ''dominated''. One player may frag another quickly at the beginning of the round in a suicide rush, and thus keep the victim from playing the game as much as himself (preventing him from doing what is the fun part of the game, fragging others). This is also a sort of pwning, as neither player in question has necessarily beaten the other, the pwn4ge part is merely inflicted because the player who performs the suicide rush - now watch out - controls the other player. It is his decision to perform the suicide rush, and the victim cannot do much about it. It does not mean being bested or beaten. It is one player successfully trying to take control of a situation. It is always possible, regardless of the state of competitiveness the action is performed in. ''beating'' someone however requires a competition, rules especially, as the mere purpose of these rules in a competition is to decide upon when someone is ''beaten''. And the situation in question doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a competition other than the imaginary competition for game play time. * While some casual cheaters merely cheat in order not to be completely pwnd by more skilled (or more likely, cheating) players, some do it merely to disrupt gameplay and emptying a server. ::::::::::The point here is that these players simply want to play. They probably don't give a shit about being ''beaten'' or not, all they want is to play the game - and being pwnd prevents them. There are games where it is just as enjoyable to lose as it is to win (aside from the pride aspect). Counter-Strike is not like that. When you are fragged, you are often rendered impotent for many, long minutes. ::::::::::In case you have a short attention span or anything, here is the deal in a nutshell: To ''beat'' someone requires rules that decide upon when or if someone is beaten. Playing on public server does not have any rules, any one player needs to decide for himself when he is ''beaten''. This highly subjective feeling of winning or losing in Counter-Strike and most other similiar games has thus been termed ''pwning''. The usage of the word ''beaten'' in that section is just very wrong and alters the meaning of the paragraph. User:Dabljuh 09:22, 15 May 2005 (UTC) :::::::::::So in the end, the language was not inadequate. We go with ''dominate'', as the far better known term, in much wider usage. Have a nice day. - User:Vague Rant | User talk:Vague Rant 09:38, May 15, 2005 (UTC) Only a complete n00b would use the word ''pwn'' in a Wikipedia article other than pwn. You have been pwnd. --User:SPUI (User talk:SPUI) 09:47, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Dabljuh

Original Author of the Counter-Strike: cheating article. Please don't ask me anything about cheats, everything you got to know is in the Cheating in Counter-Strike and the article's talk page page.

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