Cult - meaning of word
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Cult



:''This article does not discuss "cult" in its original sense of "religious practice"; for that usage see cult (religion). See Cult (disambiguation) for more meanings of the term "cult"''. In religion and sociology, a cult is a group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs and goals which may be contradictory to those held by the majority of society. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or due to idiosyncratic practices that cause the surrounding culture to regard it as far outside the mainstream. See also List of purported cults for a list of groups that have been referred to as cults by diverse sources. __TOC__ In English-speaking countries since about the 1960s, especially in North America, the term ''cult'' has taken on a pejorative and sometimes offensive connotation. This largely originated with highly publicized cults which purportedly exploited their members psychologically and financially, or which allegedly utilized group-based persuasion and Religious_conversion techniques. These techniques may include "brainwashing", "thought reform", "love bombing", and "mind control". The scientific validity, modern and historical use, and effectiveness (for religious conversion) of these techniques and terms are discussed within the linked articles. Due to the usually pejorative connotation of the word "cult", new religious movements (NRMs) and other purported cults often find the word highly offensive. Some purported cults have been known to insist that other similar groups are cults but that they themselves are not. On the other hand, some Skepticism have questioned the distinction between a cult and a mainstream religion. They say that the only difference between a cult and a religion is that the latter is older and has more followers and, therefore, seems less controversial because society has become used to it. See also ''anti-cult movement'' and ''Opposition to cults and new religious movements''. == Problems surrounding the definitions of a cult == The literal and traditional meanings of the word cult, which are more fully explored at the entry Cult (religion), derive from the Latin ''cultus,'' meaning "care" or "adoration," as "a system of religious belief or ritual; or: the body of adherents to same." In French language or Spanish language, ''culte'' or ''culto'' simply means "worship" or "religious attendance"; thus an ''association cultuelle'' is an association whose goal is to organize religious worship and practices (not to be mistaken for an ''association culturelle'' or "cultural association"). The word for "cult" in the popular English meaning is ''secte'' (French) or ''secta'' (Spanish). (See false friend.) In German language or Russian language the word ''sekta'' (sect) has a slightly different meaning than the English word ''cult'' in addition to the German word ''Sekte''. In formal English use, and in non-English European terms, the cognates of the English word "cult" are neutral, and refer mainly to divisions within a single faith, a case where English speakers might use the word "sect". Hence Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism are cults ''within'' Christianity. In English, it remains perfectly neutral to refer to the "cult of Artemis at Ephesus" and the "cult figures" that accompanied it, or to "the importance of the ''Ave Maria'' in the cult of the Blessed Virgin Mary ." However, in common usage, "cult" has a very negative connotation, and is generally applied to a group in order to criticize it. Understandably, most groups, if not all, that are called "cults" deny this qualification. Some groups called "cults" by some critics may consider themselves not to be "cults", but may consider some other groups to be "cults". ===Definition of "cult" by the anti-cult movement=== Although anti-cult activists and scholars did not agree on precise criteria that new religions should meet to be considered "cults," two of the definitions formulated by anti-cult activists are: :''Cults are groups that often exploit members psychologically and/or financially, typically by making members comply with leadership's demands through certain types of psychological manipulation, popularly called ''mind control'', and through the inculcation of deep-seated anxious dependency on the group and its leaders'' [1] :''Cult: A group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control . . . designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community.'' [8] ===Cult, NRM and the sociology and psychology of religion=== The problem with defining the word ''cult'' is that (1) purported cult members generally resist being called a cult, and (2) the word ''cult'' is often used to marginalize religious groups with which one does not agree or sympathize. Some serious researchers of religion and sociology prefer to use terms such as ''new religious movement'' (NRM) in their research on cults. Such usage may lead to confusion because some religious movements are "new" but not necessarily cults, and some purported cults are not religious or overtly religious. Furthermore, some religious groups commonly regarded as cults are in fact no longer "new"; for instance, the Jehovah's Witnesses have been around for over 100 years in the USA; Scientology is over 50 years old; and the Hare Krishna came out of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, a religious tradition that is about 500 years old. Where a cult practices physical or mental abuse, some psychologists and other mental health professionals use the terms ''cult,'' ''abusive cult'', or ''destructive cult.'' The popular press also commonly uses these terms. However, not all cults function abusively or destructively, and among those that psychologists believe ''are'' abusive, few members would agree that they suffer abuse. Other researchers like David V. Barrett hold the view that classifying a religious movement as a cult is generally used as a subjective and negative label and has no added value; instead, he argues that one should investigate the beliefs and practices of the religious movement. [9] The field of cults and new religious movements is studied by sociologists, religious scholars, psychologists and psychiatrists. The debates about a certain purported cult and cults in general are often polarized with widely divergent opinions, not only among current followers of a purported cult and disaffected former members, but sometimes even among scholars and social scientists. For example, the American religious scholar J. Gordon Melton holds the view that cults rarely do serious harm and that stories of apostate cannot be relied upon. In correspondence with this view, he went to a trip to Japan paid by Aum Shinrikyo after the sarin gas attack and erroneously declared there that Aum Shinrikyo was innocent. [http://www.apologeticsindex.org/a06.html] Other scholars challenging the validity of apostate testimonies include Brian R. Wilson, and Anson Shupe. David G. Bromley who studied the social influences on these testimonies asserts that the stories of critical ex-members who defect from groups that are subversive (defined as groups with few allies and many opponents) tend to have the form of "captivity narratives" (i.e. the narratives depict the stay in the group as involuntary). Massimo Introvigne asserts that these public negative testimonies and attitudes are only voiced by a minority of the ex-members. Scholars who tend to side more with critical former members include David C. Lane, Benjamin Zablocki, and Stephen Kent. ''See also Anti-cult_movement#Apostates and Apologists''. Psychologists, among them those specialised in group psychology, studied what cognitive and emotional traits make people accept to join a cult and to stay loyal to it, see an analysis in the [http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2699/is_0004/ai_2699000433 Gale Encyclopedia of Psychology] Some groups, particularly those labeled by others as cults, view the designation of "cult" as insensitive, and feel persecuted by their opponents whom they often believe to be part of the "anti-cult movement". Such groups often defend their position by comparing themselves to more established, mainstream religious groups such as Catholicism and Judaism. The argument offered in this case can usually be simplified as, "except for size and age, Christianity and Judaism meet all the criteria for a cult, and therefore the term ''cult'' simply means ''small, young religion''." According to the Dutch religious scholar Wouter Hanegraaff, another problem with writing about cults comes about because they generally hold world view s that give answers to questions about the meaning of personal life and morality. This makes it difficult not to write in biased terms about a certain cult, because writers are rarely neutral about these questions. Some writers who deal with the subject choose to explicitly state their ethical values and belief systems to deal with this difficulty. For many scholars and professional commentators, the usage of the word "cult" applies to maleficent or abusive behavior, and not to a belief system. For members of competing religions, use of the word remains pejorative and applies primarily to rival beliefs (see memes), and only incidentally to behavior. It should be noted that there is no clear causal connection between extremist belief and the formation of a so-called destructive cult. Most far-right hate groups are not cults, although they have pathological ideas and are frequently violent. Some groups regarded as cults have quite benign belief systems--the devil is in the details of how the members relate to the cult's founder and inner circle. In the sociology of religion, the term cult is a part of the subdivision of religious groups into sects, cults, denominations and ecclesias. The sociologists Rodney Stark and William Sims Bainbridge define in their book Development of religion#\"Theory of religion\" model and subsequent works cults as "deviant religious organization with novel beliefs and practices", that is as new religious movements that unlike sects have not separated from another religious organization. Cults, in this sense, may or may not be dangerous, abusive, etc. By this definition, most of the groups which have been popularly labeled cults are indeed cults. ===Definition of "cult" in dictionaries and other points of view=== The Merriam-Webster online dictionary defines cult as: :"a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents" [http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?cult] Lloyd Eby calls this definition problematic, because: :"...then we must ask: '''regarded as spurious or unorthodox ''by whom?''''' Who has or was given this authority to decide what beliefs or practices are orthodox or genuine, and what are unorthodox or spurious? In the realm of religion and belief, one person's or group's norm is another's anathema, and what is regarded as false or counterfeit by one person or group is regarded as genuine and authentic by another." (emphasis added) [http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/cultsect/mdtaskforce/eby_testimony.htm] ''This definition is entirely subjective: it means that if you think a religion is unorthodox, then you will call it a cult.'' Indeed, ''any'' religion involving unconditional worship and unquestioning obedience to God could be labelled as a cult (using the pejorative connotation of the word), since such a religion would have that high level of dependency, obedience, and unwavering compliance ascribed to cults by definition. Many mainstream religions still require their members to believe in God unquestioningly, to have faith that he is good and that what he does is good (even in light of problems of theodicy that make it reasonable to question this), to consider one's own wants and needs as unimportant while accepting the will of God as paramount. All of these are certainly characteristics commonly attributed to cults, but while it would not be unreasonable to apply this definition of a cult to any dogmatic religion that requires strict compliance with God's word and will as a condition of membership, the notion of applying the word "cult" to Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any other major world religion today is considered absurd. There are those (e.g., Maltheism) who make this very claim: that those who worship God fit the classic depiction of cult members in their dogmatism, unswerving obedience, and denial of self. This highlights the problematic nature of defining what is and is not a cult. ==Christianity and Cults== Since at least the 1940s, the approach of orthodox or conservative or fundamentalist Christians was to apply the meaning of ''cult'' such that it included those religious groups who used (possibly exclusively) non-standard translations of the Bible, put additional revelation on a similar or higher level than the Bible or had practices deviant from those of traditional Christianity. Some examples of sources (with published dates where known) that documented this approach are: * ''Heresies and Cults'', by J.Oswald Sanders, pub.1948. * ''Cults and Isms'', by J.Oswald Sanders, pub.1962, 1969, 1980 (Arrowsmith), ISBN 0 551 00458 4. * ''Chaos of the Cults'', by J.K.van Baalen. * ''Heresies Exposed'', by W.C.Irvine. * ''Confusion of Tongues'', by C.W.Ferguson. * ''Isms New and Old'', by Julius Bodensieck. * ''Some Latter-Day Religions'', by G.H.Combs. ==Theories about the reasons for joining a cult== According to GallanterCult#References, typical reasons why people join cults include a search for community and a spiritual quest. Jeffrey Hadden summarizes a lecture named "Why Do People Join NRMs?" (a lecture in a series related to the sociology of new religious movementsCult#References) as follows: # Belonging to groups is a natural human activity; # People belong to religious groups for essentially the same reasons they belong to other groups; # Conversion is generally understood as an emotionally charged experience that leads to a dramatic reorganization of the convert's life; # Conversion varies enormously in terms of the intensity of the experience and the degree to which it actually alters the life of the convert; # Conversion is one, but not the only reason people join religious groups; # Social scientists have offered a number of theories to explain why people join religious groups; # Most of these explanations could apply equally well to explain why people join lots of other kinds of groups; # No one theory can explain all joinings or conversions; # What all of these theories have in common (deprivation theory excluded) is the view that joining or converting is a natural process. Stark and Bainbridge have questioned the utility of the concept of ''conversion''. They suggest, instead, that the concept of ''affiliation'' is a more useful concept for understanding how people join religious groups.Cult#References ==Cult leadership== According to Dr. Eileen Barker, new religions are in most cases started by charismatic authority leaders. According to Mikael Rothstein, there is in many cases no access to plain facts both about historical religious leaders and contemporary ones though there is an abundance of legends, myths, and theological elaborations. According to Rothstein most members of any new religious movement have little chance of a personal meeting with the ''Master'' (leader) except as a member of big audience when the Master is present on stage. See also Development_of_religion#Role_of_charismatic_figures_in_the_development_of_religions ==Development of cults== Cults based on charismatic leadership often follow the Charismatic_authority#Routinizing_charisma, as described by the German sociologist Max Weber. The death of the founder may lead to a succession crisis. ==Cults: genuine concerns and exaggerations== The stigma surrounding the classification of a group as a cult stems from the purported ill effect the group's influence has on its members. The narratives of ill effect include threats presented by a cult to its members (whether real or perceived), and risks to the ''physical'' safety of its members and to their mental and ''spiritual'' growth. Much of the actions taken against cults and alleged cults have been in reaction to the harm experienced by some members due to their affiliation with the groups in question. Members of alleged cult groups have taken pains to emphasize that not all groups called cults are dangerous. Over a period of time, some minority religious organizations that were at one point in time considered cults have been accepted by mainstream society, such as Mormonism, Christian Science in the USA though faced with renewed opposition lately, and the Amish. Certain cults, such as Heaven's Gate, Order of the Solar Temple, Aum Shinrikyo, and the Peoples Temple have demonstrated by their actions that they do pose a threat to the well-being of both their own members and to society in general; these organizations are often referred to as doomsday cults by the media, and their mass suicides and mass murders are well-documented. Other groups include the Colonia Dignidad cult (a German group settled in Chile) that served as a torture center for the Chilean government during the Pinochet dictatorship. Certain other groups, while not universally condemned, remain suspect in the minds of the general public, such as Scientology and to a lesser extent the Unification Church and the Children of God. A problem in studying such high-profile groups is to distinguish between a group's public image (that may have become fixed decades earlier) and the group's actual practices in the here and now. This is especially important when one is studying a group whose founder has died or which has splintered, or a group with foreign origins that is gradually integrating itself into another culture. It is worth noting that despite the emphasis on narratives of "doomsday cults" by the media and the anti-cult movement, the number of cults known to have fallen into that category is approximately ten, which is very few when compared with the total number of new religious movements (including cults that are psychologically destructive but not extremely violent or doomsday-oriented), which E. Barker estimates to be in the tens of thousands10. According to the professor in sociology at the Rutgers University Benjamin Zablocki, cults are at high risk of becoming abusive to members, in part because members' adulation of charismatic authority leaders contributes to their becoming corrupted by the power they seek and are accorded. Zablocki defines a cult here as an ideological organization held together by charismatic relationships and demanding total commitment. Cult#References There is no reliable, generally accepted way to determine which groups will harm their members. In an attempt to predict the probability of harm, popular but non-scientific cult checklists have been created by anti-cultists for this purpose. One checklist by Eileen Barker claims to be based on empirical research. According to Barrett the most common accusation made against alleged "cults" is sexual abuse. See Cult#Criticism_by_former_members_of_purported_cults. According to Kranenborg, some groups, like Christian Science are risky when they advise their members not to use regular medical care. #References Barker, Barrett, and the anti-cult activist Steven Hassan all advise seeking information from various sources about a certain group before getting deeply involved, though these sources differ in the urgency they suggest. ===Stigmatization and discrimination=== Some feel that the terms "cult" and "cult leader" are used pejoratively by anti-cultists, asserting that they are to be avoided to prevent harm. A website affiliated with Adi Da Samraj [http://www.firmstand.org/] sees the activities of anti-cult activists as the exercise of prejudice and discrimination against them, and regards the use of the words "cult" and "cult leader" as similar to the manner in which "nigger" and "commie" were used in the past to denigrate blacks and Communists. ===Leaving a cult, reasons and empirical evidence=== Jean Duhaime of the Université de Montréal distinguishes four ways by which members can leave cults #Kidnapping/deprogramming If the deprogramming succeeds, the ex-member will use in his testimony the interpretation frame of the people who have deprogrammed the member. #Expulsion. The member is rejected by the group. Dependent on the reason and the way this has happened, the member may either desire to go back to the group and describe the group in a positive way or denounce the group #Voluntary peaceful departure. The member finds that a group has brought him a lot but does no longer fulfil his needs, or that the group has changed since joining. This way of departure will probably not lead to negative testimonies about the group. #Rupture or flight.The member observes that the group is or has become a deception. and in addition finds that the leader, in the member’s view, slipped and life in the group has become unbearable. The member tries to talk to the coordinators of the group but he is hurt or angry at their refusal to listen to him. This will likely lead to negative testimonies about the group. According to Cult#References, the biggest worry about possible harm concerns the relatively few dedicated followers of a new religious movement (NRM). Barker also mentions that some former members may not take new initatives for quite a long time after disaffiliation from the NRM. This generally does not concern the many superficial, or short-lived, or peripheral supporters of a NRM. Membership in a cult usually does not last forever: 90% or more of cult members ultimately leave their group #References According to Hadden and Bromley, proponents of the brainwashing model such as Singer and others, lack empirical evidence to support their theory of brainwashing. They also affirm that there is lack of empirical support for alleged consequences of having been a member of a cult or sect, and that their accounts of what happens to ex-members is contradicted by substantial empirical evidence such as, the fact that the overwhelming proportion of people who get involved in NRMs do leave, most short of two years, the overwhelming proportion of people leave of their own volition, and that two-thirds (67%) felt "wiser for the experience"#References. According to Barret, in many cases the problems do not happen while in a cult, but when leaving a cult which can be difficult for some members and may include a lot of psychological trauma. Reasons for this trauma may include conditioning by the religious movement, avoidance of uncertainties about life and its meaning, having had powerful religious experiences, love for the founder of the religion, emotional investment, fear of losing salvation, bonding with other members, anticipation of the realization that time, money and efforts donated to the group were a waste, and the new freedom with its corresponding responsibilities, especially for people who lived in a community. Those reasons may prevent a member from leaving even if the member realizes that some things in the NRM are wrong. According to Kranenborg, in some religious groups, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, members have all their social contacts within the group, which makes disaffection and disaffiliation very traumatic. #References According to F. Derks and J. van der Lans there is no uniform post-cult trauma but psychological and social problems upon resignation are not rare but their character and intensity are greatly dependent on the personal history and on the traits of the person, and on the reasons for and way of resignation. #References See also Shunning === Criticism by former members of purported cults=== Allegations against cults come from a variety of sources including parents, relatives and close friends of cult members (who believe their loved one has undergone a personality change for the worse); victims of scams perpetrated by some cults; people who go to a few meetings and then back away out of fear; researchers who carefully study a cult's published literature; persons raised in cults who left after coming of age; and former adult members. Usually the most dramatic allegations as well as the most systematic and detailed ones, will come from adult former members (also known by the pejorative term "apostates" in the writings of so-called cult apologists such as Melton) and in some instances from persons who were raised in the cult. The role of former members in the controversy surrounding cults, has been widely studied by social scientists. Former members in this context are those individuals who become public opponents against their former movement. The former members' motivations, the roles they play in the anti-cult movement, the validity of their testimony, and the kinds of narratives they construct, are controversial with some scholars, who suspect that at least some of the narratives are artifacts of the exit-counselling (or formerly of the deprogramming) process. The allegations of former members include sexual abuse by the leader, failed promises and failed prophecy, causing suicides through neglect or abuse, leaders who do not admit nor apologize for mistakes, false irrational or even contradictory teachings, exclusivism, deception in recruitment (by using "front groups"). See also Apostasy#In_new_religious_movements_.28NRMs.29. === Allegations made by scholars and skeptics=== *False, irrational or even contradictory teaching made by scholar Dr. David C. Lane with regards to Paul Twitchell; *False miracles performed or endorsed by the leadership, made by the scientific skepticisms the late Abraham Kovoor, H. Narasimhaiah, and Basava Premanand for a variety of gurus and fakirs; *Discouraging regular medical care but instead relying on faith healing, made by the magazine salon.com with regards to Christian Science; *Plagiarism, allegations made by David C. Lane; *Incitement to anti-Semitism and other forms of hate, as documented in the writings of Dennis King[http://www.dennisking.org]; *Child abuse, for example subjecting blindfolded children to many hours of meditation, as documented by the scholar Dr. David C. Lane with regards to Thakar Singh[http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/turban2.html]. ===Other allegations=== *Harassment and ad hominem attacks on critics: Allegations regarding the use of such tactics have been made against Scientology, the Lyndon LaRouche organization, and the now defunct Synanon drug-treatment cult. ==Prevalence of purported cults== By one measure, between 3,000 and 5,000 purported cults existed in the United States in 1995. [6] While some of the more well-known and influential of these groups are frequently labelled as cults, the majority of these groups vigorously protest the label and refuse to be classified as such, and often expend great efforts in public relations campaigns to rid themselves of the stigma associated with of the term ''cult''. In order to maintain a neutral point of view, a list of purported cults presents a listing of groups labeled as cults by various non-related, reasonably unbiased sources. ==Cults and governments== In many countries there exists a separation of church and state and freedom of religion. Some governments are however worried about cults and have taken restrictive measures against some of their activities. Those measures were generally motivated by various crimes committed inside cults, especially by a string of murderous incidents involving doomsday cults circa 1995. However, critics of those measures hypothezise that the counter-cult movement and the anti-cult movement have succeeded in influencing governments in transferring the public's abhorrence of doomsday cults and make the generalization that it is directed against all small or new religious movements without discrimination. ===Belgium=== In Belgium, the Belgian Parliamentary Commission on Cults submitted a report to the Belgian Parliament in 1997 that included a list of 189 organizations that it labeled "cults". The list that had no legal status covered a wide range of religious groups, including the Amish Mission in Belgium, Buddhism, several Catholic groups such as Opus Dei, some Evangelical Christian denominations, Hasidic Judaism, Quakers, and Satanists. The Quakers complained to Deputy Prime Ministers about their inclusion on the list, pointed out their humanitarian aid programs, and requested to see the evidence against them which had been presented the federal police in a closed session to the Parliamentary Commission. They were unsuccessful in their appeal. As a consequence of the advice of the commission to the parliament, a law was accepted to observe cults that possibly break the law. This resulted in the foundation of a centre on June 2, 1998 for the information and advice on harmful cults, located in Brussels.[http://www.ciaosn.be/] ===China=== An extreme form of measures against "cults" is the case of Falun Gong in China. The government of the People's Republic of China consider Falun Gong a dangerous cult and seeks to dismantle it; Falun Gong followers have been jailed, and occurrences of torture have been reported. Many anti-cult movements feel that, even if Falun Gong deserves the negative connotations associated with the term cult (which is not a judgement on which there is any clear consensus), the Chinese government violated the human rights of Falun Gong members in a criminal manner for which there can be no excuse. The People's Republic of China has also engaged in repression against Buddhist worshippers, especially monks and nuns, in Tibet, on suspicions that they work for the end of the Chinese domination of Tibet and the return of the Dalai Lama as ruler of Tibet. Controversies have erupted concerning the reaction of various foreign governments with respect to the Chinese anti-Falun Gong and anti-Tibetan actions, or, rather, the lack thereof.[http://bahai-library.com/newspapers/090500-4.html] Some foreign governments, including the French, were criticized for complacency with respect to Chinese authorities, especially for restricting demonstrations against the Chinese government during official Chinese visits and ceremonies organized in collaboration with the Chinese government. [http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2004/1/29/zip.html#0] [http://www.cesnur.org/2004/falun_001.htm#fbfj] ===European Union=== On May 22, 1984 the European Parliament passed a resolution with the title "New Organizations Operating Under the Protection Afforded to Religious Beliefs" that expressed the parliament's concern about the recruitment and treatment of the members of these new organizations. [http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:plpVvm7CfYEJ:www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/WILSHIRE.CSX+New+organizations+Religious+Afforded+European+Parliament&hl=en&client=firefox-a] On March 1997, a "Resolution on cults in Europe" by the European Parliament, reaffirmed its attachment to the basic principles of democracy and the rule of law, such as tolerance, and freedom of conscience, religion, thought, association and assembly, as well as calling on its Committee on Civil Liberties and Internal Affairs to meet and work on collecting and sharing information that would enable conclusions to be drawn on the best way to restrain undesirable activities by sects and on strategies to raise public awareness about them. [http://www.europarl.eu.int/workingpapers/cito/w10/annex1_en.htm] On December 22, 1997 the Committee on Civil Liberties and Internal Affairs released an ammended resolution named "Resolution on Cults in the European Union" that was originally to be voted by the European Parliament in Strasbourg during the session of January 1998. The text of the resolution was rejected by the plenary of the European Parliament in July 1998 by a coalition of anti-cultists and religious liberties activists (the former complaining that it was too weak, and the latter considering it out of the scope of the European Parliament to decide). The resolution was sent back to the Commission for further consideration. ===France=== ''Main article: French legislation for the prevention and repression of cultic groups.'' Following from the consternation over the criminal excesses of certain cults in 1995, the French government has encouraged public caution toward some minority religious groups that it considers to be cults. As a consequence, reports on alleged sectes (cults) were published, and legislation making it easier to prosecute alleged crimes committed by these groups was adopted; both the reports and the legislation have been controversial. The French parliament passed a law (the ''About-Picard'' law), declared by its proponents to be aimed at repressing the excesses of groups infringing on human rights and fundamental freedoms. The law makes it possible to prosecute organizations, rather than individuals, for a number of crimes; in the case of established criminal behavior by an organization, courts may disband the organization. A controversial provision criminalizing "mental manipulation", included in early drafts, was not included in the final law, because of concerns about the vagueness of this notion. This legislation attracted some critical remarks, but no condemnation, from the Helsinki International Federation for Human Rights ([http://www.ihf-hr.org/documents/index.php?s_topic=10&s_countries%5B%5D=75&s_doctype=0&sec_id=3&submit=1&s_year=&s_keyword=&x=0&y=0 ''See index of documents'']), the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe, an Investigatory Commission for Violations of Human Rights hosted by the ''Omnium des Liberté'', and from minority religious groups. The US government under the Clinton administration was also critical. The criticism argued that, if legislation was applied improperly, it could result in the arbitrary banning of unpopular religious groups; and that the legislation fostered in the public and officials an atmosphere of discrimination against members of emerging religions. ===Germany=== The Germany federal government does not accept Scientology's claim to be a religion but asserts that it is a business disguised as a religion. Scientology is monitored by the Verfassungsschutz (secret service) and Germany puts restrictions on its activities. [http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/archives/background/scientology.html]. The United States Congress failed to pass a resolution in 1997 related to "discrimination by the German Government against members of minority religious groups" that mentioned only Scientology related examples of discrimination [http://home.snafu.de/tilman/krasel/germany/congress1.html]. See also status_of_religious_freedom_in_Germany. ===United Kingdom=== In the United Kingdom a charity named INFORM was founded in 1988 by professor Eileen Barker of the London School of Economics, with the funding from the Home Office and the support of mainstream Churches. According to their website, their primary aim is "... to help people through providing them with accurate, balanced, up-to-date information about new and/or alternative religious or spiritual movements." [http://www.inform.ac/infmain.html] INFORM patrons includes Bishop Kallistos of Diokleia (Greek Orthodox Church) and Bishop Charles Henderson (Roman Catholic) (Roman Catholic Church Bishop), Ralph Dahrendorf and Meghnad Desai. ===United States === The United States Department of State's travel warning for India mentions "unconfirmed reports of inappropriate sexual behavior by a prominent local religious leader" in the section Andhra Pradesh. [http://travel.state.gov/travel/india.html] (Former followers of Sathya Sai Baba claim that the Department of State, if asked, will confirm that they refer to their former guru whose main ashram is in the state Andhra Pradesh.) [http://www.free-press-release.com/news/200406/1086748975.html] ==See also== *Anti-cult movement *Apostasy *Bigotry *Cognitive dissonance *Cult Awareness Network *Cult suicide *Defamation *Development of religion *Freedom of religion *Groupthink *Hate_group#Hate_groups_and_new_religious_movements *Human rights *LGAT *Legalism (theology) *List of purported cults *New religious movement *Opposition to cults and new religious movements *Pious fraud *Religious_conversion#Conversion_to_new_religious_movements_and_cults *Religious intolerance *Religious pluralism *Scientology *Self-deception *Sociology_of_religion *True-believer syndrome *Wikipedia:Bad_jokes_and_other_deleted_nonsense:_The_Return_of_the_Nonsense#Is_wikipedia_a_cult? *Witch hunt ==External links== *[http://members.aol.com/shawdan/essay.htm Traumatic abuse in cults] Long, scholarly, psychological essay by the psychotherapist Daniel Shaw, an ex-follower of Siddha Yoga, founded by Muktananda *[http://www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/ Cult Awareness Network] website of the Cult Awareness Network, affiliated with Scientology that tries to fight, what they see as, unjustified stigmatization, hate and prejudice against "cults" and NRMs * [http://www.americanreligion.org/cultwtch/index.html "Cult Watch"] by Institute for the Study of American Religion led by J. Gordon Melton. * [http://www.apologeticsindex.org/ Apologetics Index: research resources on cults, sects, and related issues] Large website published by anti-cultist Anton Hein, who operates from an evangelical Christian point of view, but links to and presents a variety of viewpoints. * [http://www.csj.org/infoserv_groups/grp_index.htm Cult Index]. An anti-cult site of the American Family Foundation, a major American anti-cult organization * [http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejcmmsm/article/index.html Psychological Issues of Former Members of Restrictive Religious Groups] an essay by Jim Moyers, MA, MFT originally written for psychotherapists working with ex-fundamentalists * [http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu University of Virginia Religious Movements Homepage] Extensive website with entries on definitions, controversies and many religious groups, mostly written by the late sociologist [http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/utilities/aboutus.htm Jeffrey Hadden] and his former students, now edited by [http://c.faculty.umkc.edu/cowande/ Douglas E. Cowan](old entries of individual religious groups have not been updated in the last two years and sometimes contain factual mistakes) * [http://www.cesnur.org/testi/anticult_terror.htm "So Many Evil Things": Anti-Cult Terrorism via the Internet] Article by Massimo Introvigne, the president of CESNUR (a network of scholars working in the field of NRMs), discussing anti-cult activism on the internet and the danger of its extreme forms * [http://www.forum8.org/forum8/singer/singer_cults.htm Cults in our Midst] Excerpts from [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0787967416/ref=cm_rev_prev/102-3175768-2349726?%5Fencoding=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDate&n=283155&customer-reviews.start=1&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER the anti-cult book of the same name] by Margaret Singer, Ph.D. * [http://www.xs4all.nl/~wichm/psymove.html On the psychology of spiritual movements] long article by Michael Rogge * [http://www.religioustolerance.org/ Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance], Extensive library of articles and essays, promoting religious understanding, tolerance and freedom. Website is somewhat critical of the Christian countercult movement and the anti-cult movement. * [http://www.rickross.com/ The Rick A. Ross Institute for the study of Destructive Cults, controversial groups and movements] anti-cult activist Rick Ross' extensive website, contains groups database with media articles * [http://www.math.mcgill.ca/triples/infocult/ic-e1.html Info cult] Anti-cult website based in Quebec ==References== # William Chambers, Michael Langone, Arthur Dole & James Grice, ''The Group Psychological Abuse Scale: A Measure of the Varieties of Cultic Abuse'', ''Cultic Studies Journal''', 11(1), 1994. The definition of a cult given above is based on a study of 308 former members of 101 groups. # Eileen Barker ''The Ones Who Got Away: People Who Attend Unification Church Workshops and Do Not Become Moonies''. In: Barker E, ed. ''Of Gods and Men: New Religious Movements in the West'''. Macon, Ga. : Mercer University Press; 1983. # Barker, E. (1989) ''New Religious Movements: A Practical Introduction'', London, HMSO # Galanter M. ''Unification Church ('Moonie') dropouts: psychological readjustment after leaving a charismatic religious group''. ''American Journal of Psychiatry''. 1983;140(8):984-989. # Enroth, Ronald. ''Churches that Abuse'' # Margaret Singer with Lalich, J (1995). ''Cults in Our Midst'', San Francisco: Jossey-Bass. # Aronoff, Jodi; Lynn, Steven Jay; Malinosky, Peter. ''Are cultic environments psychologically harmful?'', ''Clinical Psychology Review'', 2000, Vol. 20 #1 pp. 91-111 # Louis Joylon West, & Langone, M. D. (1985). ''Cultism: A conference for scholars and policy makers. Summary of proceedings of the Wingspread conference on cultism, September 9–11''. Weston, MA: American Family Foundation. # Barrett, D. V. ''The New Believers - A survey of sects, cults and alternative religions'' 2001 UK, Cassell & Co. [http://www.thenewbelievers.com available online] #Barker, E., ''The Making of a Moonie'', Oxford: Basil Blackwell (1984), p. 147. #Galanter, Marc M.D.(Editor) (1989) ''Cults and new religious movements: a report of the committee on psychiatry and religion of the American Psychiatric Association'' ISBN 0-89042-212-5 #Hadden, Jeffrey K. ''SOC 257: New Religious Movements Lectures'', University of Virginia, Department of Sociology. #Bader, Chris & A. Demaris, ''A test of the Stark-Bainbridge theory of affiliation with religious cults and sects.'' Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, 35, 285-303. (1996) #Hadden, J and Bromley, D eds. (1993), ''The Handbook of Cults and Sects in America.'' Greenwich, CT: JAI Press, Inc., pp. 75-97. #Kranenborg, Reender Dr. (Dutch language) ''Sekten ... gevaarlijk of niet?/Cults... dangerous or not?'' published in the magazine ''Religieuze bewegingen in Nederland/Religious movements in the Netherlands'' nr. 31 ''Sekten II'' by the Vrije Universiteit (1996) ISSN 0169-7374 ISBN 90-5383-426 #F. Derks and professor Jan van der Lans (Dutch language) ''Post-cult-syndroom; feit of fictie?/Post-cult syndrome: fact or fiction?''. published in the magazine ''Religieuze bewegingen in Nederland/Religious movemements in the Netherlands'' nr. 6 pages 58-75 published by the Vrije Universiteit (1983) #Dr. Zablocki, Benjamin [http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~zablocki/] Paper presented to a conference, ''Cults: Theory and Treatment Issues'', May 31, 1997 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. #Duhaime, Jean (Université de Montréal) ''Les Témoigagnes de Convertis et d'ex-Adeptes'' (English: ''The testimonies of converts and former followers'', article that appeared in the book ''New Religions in a Postmodern World'' edited by Mikael Rothstein and Reender Kranenborg RENNER Studies in New religions Aarhus University press, 2003 ISBN 8772887486 #Rothstein, Mikael, associate professor in the department of history of religions at the University of Copenhagen ''Hagiography and Text in the Aetherius Society: Aspects of the Social Construction of a Religious Leader'', article that appeared in the book ''New Religions in a Postmodern World'' edited by Mikael Rothstein and Reender Kranenborg RENNER Studies in New religions Aarhus University press, ISBN 8772887486 Cults New religious movements

Cult



Talk:Cult/archive1 - Talk:Cult/archive2 - talk:Cult/archive3 ==Cult checklists== == Competing definitions of "cult" == According to T. Robbins on his ""The Sociology of Contemporary Religious Movements" there are three competing definitions of "cult", as follows: #The media and popular demonology use of \"cult\" 'to refer to authoritarian and totalistic movements that "psychologically imprison" converts and that ought to be controlled; #Some Sociologists using the term "cult" in a manner almost antithetical to the popular pejoritive usage. Whereas "sects" have traditionally been viewed as being relatively intolerant, authoritarian, and close-knit, the term "cult" is now being used by many sociologists to refer to putatively ephemeral groups that lack clear group boundaries, centralized leadership, and standardized dogma, and that make minimal demands on devotees, whose degree of commitment may be highly variable; and #Other Sociologists have developed an explicitly substantive concept of a cult as a group that makes a radical break with the dominant religious tradition in the society. In contrast, a sect is a subdivision of the dominant tradition, e.g. a Christian sect in America or a Hindu sect in India. The Hare Krishna would thus be an American cult rather than a Hindu sect. He further argues that ''...the ultimate sociological significance of the present spiritual ferment cannot be assessed without additional information regarding the long term social adjustment and attitudinal and personality transformations of converts, as well as the evolution and institutionalization of current groups.'' IMO, any attempts to make generalizations as the ones proposed in this WP article are inherently invalid due to the complexity of the issue at hand. --User:Zappaz 20:43, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC) ==Social psychology of religion== I appreciate Wetman's critique of the terminology: :Cult is identified by an unhealthy relation between an individual and a sect, in which the individual is socially and psychologically manipulated, not for the individual's good. To what extent do religions, denominations and sects exploit and manipulate their members? This is a question that transcends the size or age of a religious group. It can also be approached from different perspectives: * materialistic + mental health perspective (there is no God or afterlife, so it's all bogus anyway) * competitive perspective (that other group are all heretics) * "We only disagree with their methods, not their theology." I don't think we can write an accurate and unbiased article on "cults" without FIRST identifying the perspectives from which people are condemning various religions as "spurious". Moreover, NOBODY has created a definition, test or checklist which objectively distinguishes between a "real church" and a "fake" one. There is tremendous infighting between denominations of Christianity, not to mention between branches of Islam. And several Christian groups have called Buddhism or Islam on Hinduisms "cults" or "false religions". It's a mess. One simple but tedious approach is to list every group which has been branded a "cult" -- along with the group or individual doing the branding. We might make a chart, with the branders along one axis and the branded down the other. User:Ed Poor user talk:Ed Poor 15:55, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC) ==Cooperative editing== I've carefully read everybody's comments, and even though clearly there's a lot of disagreement I feel that everyone is sincere and honest, not to mention exceptionally well-informed. There are various points being emphasized, as well as different points of view espoused. Jossi and I like our "cults", while Andries despises his (former) one. David and Zappaz and Antaeus and Gary bring a more detached but perhaps better-focused perspective. I have a good feeling about prospects for Wikipedia:cooperation on the new version. Have a good weekend, everybody! User:Ed Poor user talk:Ed Poor 19:50, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC) :Thanks for your vote of confidence. As it turns out, I don't have a particular dog in this fight. I'm happy to chip in with style editing upon request, but otherwise this broth seems to have a healthy number of cooks already. --User:Gary D 21:59, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC) I finally read (most of) Eileen Barker's "Five Types of Cult-Watching Groups". [http://www.cesnur.org/2001/london2001/barker.htm] And I respect her scholarship for two reasons. First, I've read some of her previous material; it's all research-based, with facts and figures. Second, she's associated with David Bromley, whose work I also respect. Here are her "ideal types": * cult-awareness groups (CAGs) * counter-cult groups (CCGs) * research-oriented groups (ROGs) * human-rights groups (HRGs) * cult-defender groups (CDGs) They fit neatly into a spectrum, although unsophisticated journalism or advocacy tends to focus on the sparks flying between the anti-cult CAGs and cult-defender groups (CDGs). Like Rick Ross and Steve Hassan heroically rescuing hapless victims vs. "cult apologists" justifying mind control. I enjoy reading ROG literature the most. HRG is boring for me, because I'm already convinced that people have a right to choose their religion (and I've made my choice). CDGs don't have much information that's relevant to creating an encyclopedia article. That leaves two. First, the theologically minded counter-cult groups who criticize heretical sects and NRMs. Best way to handle them (for Wikipedia purposes) is to describe as clearly as possible WHY they disagree theologically with other religions. If Falwell calls all of Islam or Buddhism a "cult", it's probably because they don't accept Jesus as their "personal Lord and Savior"; he's not disputing that they are sincerely religious, though -- just hapless misguided heretics or heathens. And some established Christian groups have rejected the Unification Church for teaching (1) that Jesus is not God Himself and (2) that the Messiah will come again as a "man born upon the earth". Second, the anti-cult groups which have other than theological objections. This gives me an idea for "framing" this series of cult articles. Using Barker's 5 types, we could focus on opposition to "cults" rather than trying to write one article on what a cult is. * Heresy is the place for all accusations that a given teaching or group is theologically unsound. * Anti-cult movement is the place for attitudes, assumptions, objections and activities of those who go around calling various NRMs "cults" for non-theological reasons. The latter article could conceivably incorporate the cult checklist sidebare article. It would focus on various counter-cult people and organizations and say WHY they regard various particularly groups as "spurious" (i.e., a cult). Like Steve Hassan says "Moonies are a cult" because: * they use mind control - describe his theory, and any evidence (if any) which he gives that they engage in the practices he says will result in mind control. It might also be interesting to contrast Hassan's POV with surveys or theories by ROGs -- including Barker herself. Eileen Barker and UC official Tyler Hendricks independently agree that over 90% of recruits left of their own free will within 2 years of "moving in" as full-time members. * they just exist for Moon's aggrandizement; i.e., he's getting rich and powerful at their expense, and gives them nothing good in return. We could explore this POV, too. Is it just opinion, or what? How do current and former members feel about this topic? Is their any correlation between a one's attitude toward the Unification Church and the way one leaves it? (Barker, AFAIK, says that victims of involuntary deprogramming are much more likely to have a negative outlook toward the group than those who simply dropped out on their own.) == Talking about God? == I'm not sure about this, but when talking about God, aren't you supposed to capitalize He? I thought it was simply the way it was supposed to be done, whether or not one believed in Him or placed Him on a higher pedestal than anyone else - I myself don't necessarily believe in God, but I still use the capitalization. I don't think it's incorrect to use lower case for such pronouns, but I would say that it is much more common to see it capitalized. See God. User:24.67.253.203 10:42, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC) == Things to do == Various topics seems neglected in WP about cults in particular and religions in general. See, Zappaz, I have no prejudice about classifying cults as religions or not. Seems to me that both share some objectives of controlling human beings. It is just that some do it more forcefully and deviously than others ;-)). And I don't see much difference between sects and cults, oops, NRMs. Btw, I have nothing against personal creeds, but I am wary of organized outfits playing social psychology tricks. Well, you can say the same of some secular ideologies that verge on totalitarism, like those which poisoned Europe and were the source of war tragedies in the last century. Secular church are for me a reality also. Was not Stalin an ex seminarists? And were not some nazis adepts of pagan superstitions, which are just a mirror of religion? I could add to the lot various individual charlatans, like astrologists and the same. Just other forms of cult or guruism for me. Not a pretty bunch. Those are the suggested topics. * Cult and money, Religion and money * Cult and politics, Religion and politics (1) * Cult and media, Religion and media * Cult and terrorism, Religion and terrorism (2) (1)the present US govt gives an extreme example (2)here we have Osama They can be chapter of existing articles, or article by themselves. What about it, folks? --User:Pgreenfinch 12:51, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC) == Too many articles == Cult articles keep popping up. While repairing a misdirected link I found a nearly-identical sentence in three articles, a good indication of unnecessary duplication. *Other scholars challenging the validity of apostate testimonies include Brian R. Wilson, David G. Bromley, Massimo Introvigne, Anson Shupe, amongst others.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Cult.2C_NRM_and_the_sociology_and_psychology_of_religion] *Other scholars challenging the validity of apostate testimonies include Brian R. Wilson, Massimo Introvigne, and Anson D. Shuppe. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-cult_movement#References] *Other scholars challenging some of the premises of the anti-cult movement such as the existence of mind control and the reliability of apostate testimonies, include Brian R. Wilson, Massimo Introvigne, and Anson Shupe.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_cults_and_new_religious_movements#Pressure_from_cult-watching_groups] Let's try to reduce the number of articles so as to avoid duplication and POV forks. Cheers, -User:Willmcw 04:09, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC) :I know, it's getting to be like ''Too Many Songs by Tom Lehrer'' - except that *he* was at least *funny*. On the other hand, sometimes you need to break it down before you can build it up. In my 3.5 years at Wikipedia, I've seen several topics divided into "too many" article pages, and then re-assembled after the "sub-articles" started looking good enough. User:Ed Poor user talk:Ed Poor 18:17, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC) ::Good point. I can certainly see how splitting out topics for independent editing could lead to better subsections when they are ultimately rejoined. But that is the best possible outcome. Unfortunately, there are other outcomes as well that are not as benefical to the project. Duplication between the split-out articles, as exemplified by the above sentence, is perhaps a sign of things going in the wrong direction. Not to worry. Cheers, -User:Willmcw 20:40, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC) :::Interesting that you only found this sentence to be the one showcasing dup0lication. These have been added in ultiple articles due to the insistence of anti-cult activists here in WP, to have a multiplicilty of articles on the subject of cults. I am 100% for condesing all these articles into a few, solid ones. Let's do it. --User:Zappaz 21:14, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::::I wasn't looking for duplications, but I went to fix a misspelled link that turned up three times. The duplication hit me over the head, so to speak. Since you seem to be familiar with these edits, can you tell us if there are other duplications? Reducing the amount of duplicated material between articles would be a good place to start. -User:Willmcw 21:55, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC) :::::I could take these three articles Cults, Anti-cult movement and Opposition to cults and new religious movements in to my word processor and try to come up with a synthesis that I can post on a sub page of my talk page. Then I can invite you to take a look and let me know what you think. What say you? --User:Zappaz 05:08, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC) :::::Why not start with the articles Prem Rawat and Criticism of Prem Rawat? Cheers, -User:Willmcw 07:12, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC ::::::Are you serious? We spent four bitter months on these articles last year... I am not up for another round, no way... Just look at what happened recently on a vFd for Criticism of Prem Rawat ... opening a can of worms is too poor of an analogy! --User:Zappaz 17:19, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC) == This article needs major cleanup == This article is peppered with statements that seem either some editor's opinion or original research. One examples (highlight is mine): *''Members of groups referred to as cults have been known to engage in long discussions over the ''definition'' of the word "cult." Critics of alleged cult groups state that by doing so, these persons have been known to waste large amounts of time and effort that would be better spent examining the actions of the groups in question, in order to reveal ''why'' these groups are referred to as cults.'' I am putting some sections in this article in , until information that is presented as factual is supported by some kind of reference. --User:Zappaz 06:41, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC) Another example is the last paragraph at "Definition of "cult" in dictionaries and other points of view". --User:Zappaz 06:49, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC) Yes... most of the text is well researched and supported by good references and citacions, but there are way to many small snippets of text that lack any without any supporting sources. These snippets in stark contrast with the parts of the article that are referenced. We shall wait for a week or so to see if anyone can come up with sources for these, before excising. --User:Zappaz 06:54, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC) ==Zappaz, I take offensive at your edits== :Much of the actions taken against cults and alleged cults have been in reaction to the harm "ostensibly" experienced by some members due to their affiliation with the groups in question. I consider the word "ostentibly" as morally reprehensible and unfair and insulting as somebody who holocaust denial. User:Andries 01:07, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::I agree, this Zappaz character seems to have a personal agenda of white-washing. == Benjamin Zablocki notable? == Andries, just drawing your attention about he "notability" of Zablocki. Google test: 960 pages [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Benjamin+Zablocki%22]. Compare Google test for Gretchen Passantino: 756 pages [[http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Gretchen+Passantino%22], Google test for Bob Passantino: 1,380 pages [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Bob+Passantino%22]. So, be careful whith your arguments on other articles about notability of sources usupportive of your POV.--User:Zappaz 03:38, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC) :A google test has never been accepted or proposed as test if a person's opinion is a good NPOV source for writing an article. If that were the case we could fill this whole article with quotes by Rick Ross and Anton Hein. A google test is acceptable to determine whether something or somebody deserves its or his or own article. Zablocki has edited a book "Misunderstanding cults" about the subject and has written papers about it. He also contributes to Nova Religio. User:Andries 06:26, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC) :Don't change the subject, Andries. We are discussing notability. Zablocki is as notable for this article as the Passantino's are notable for Mind control. Hope you could admit the fact that you are challenging sources being not notable only when it is convenient. Regarding Hein and Ross, go ahead and fill the article if you wish. After all both of them are notable anti-cultists. If it is good info and properly referrenced, I don't see the reason why not. --User:Zappaz 15:42, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::I think that I start to see the reason why we have so much conflicts, that is a fundamental difference of opinion about writing encyclopedic content. In that case, I hope you accept my apologies for doubting your good faith. I always thought that best the way to write a good article is to quote, use and refer to the best sources available. I do not think that Passantino, Ross, or Hassan are the best sources so I object to using them. Wikipedia:Cite_sources User:Andries 17:47, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC) :::"Best" sources have to be looked at in context. A source may not qualify as "best" for one article, but it can qualify as such in another. --User:Zappaz 19:23, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::::When desrcibing the views of anti-cult activists and their concepts Rick Ross and Anton Hein etc. are good sources, together with scholarly criticisms e.g. by Bromley of their opinions and methods. Passantino does not qualify as such. Please explain why you still think that Passantino is a good NPOV source for the article of mind control. User:Andries 05:41, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC) :::::One more time: An anti-cultist writer that speaks agains mind-control theories is notable for this article! --User:Zappaz 00:43, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::::::I agree that this fact is notable enough to be mentioned but criticism of the theory of mind control theory should not come from just a website, like Passantino's but from social scientists and scholars. User:Andries 08:10, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::::::::The Passantinos are well known writers in their domain. Relevant, of course! What difference that makes that their article was republisged on a website? If you find a better reference to of an anti-cultist that rejects the theories of mind control, that would be great. Thanks --User:Zappaz 07:11, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::::::::There is some if you take the effort to search. User:Andries 08:20, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Cults & wikiquette == While we could potentially argue against calling the Church of Scientology a "destructive cult", it seems to be poor wikiquette to call an editor who does so a "vandal".[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cult&diff=prev&oldid=12509234] The CoS is among the more highly-referenced additions to the list of purported cults, so it is not an off-the-wall addition. I hope that editors will demonstrate good faith towards the contributions of others. Thanks, -User:Willmcw 09:45, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC) :::yuck, zappaz is an unscrupulous cult-apologizer who walks over dead bodies, beware! User:62.214.155.74 13:27, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::::Please don't engage in personal attacks on other editors. Speaking of which, I heop that user:Zappaz will explain her labelling of those edits as being that of a "vandal." -User:Willmcw 23:41, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC) :LOL, 62! But I think you meant "cult apologist". (Kind of like a black kid calling a white kid a "honker" when he really meant to say "honkie" ;-) User:Ed Poor user talk:Ed Poor 19:08, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC) It was vandalism. Period. --User:Zappaz 00:33, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::How is editing an article in good faith considered vandalism? Please explain. -User:Willmcw 00:55, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC) :::Because it was. Read the anon's comments on the edit. Good faith? It was POV vandalism, pure and simple. --User:Zappaz 01:30, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::::Having a POV, or making a POV edit, is not vandalism. It's making a POV edit. If doing so were vandalism, then we'd all have been banned a long time ago. In fact, I see that the anon made no edit summary the first time you called him a vandal, so whatever he said the second time happened later. Please remember that this is a collaboration, and assume good faith. -User:Willmcw 02:12, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC) :::::You are right. Thanks for the reminder. --User:Zappaz 04:11, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) :Cult aplogist? Hey, thanks! I am proud to have be put in the same category with other illustrious defenders of the 1st Ammendment, religious tolerance, religious freedoms and anti-bigotry. Thank you. --User:Zappaz 00:48, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Allegations section == I oppose the use of WP as a platform to air grievances of ex-members of new religions or purported cults. These allegations are explored in the respective articles of these groups, where rebuttals and the other side's point of view are presented within an NPOV article. As it stands now it is not within NPOV. I propose to delete completely this section leaving a short summary of the controversy. If there are no objections I will do just that in a few days. Thanks. --User:Zappaz 03:20, 1 May 2005 (UTC) :A 'full' summary would be better. Thanks for doing that work. Cheers, -User:Willmcw 04:23, May 1, 2005 (UTC) :I admit that a summary would be better and move the detailed list to apostasy. User:Andries 12:15, 1 May 2005 (UTC) I will summarize the list and refer to the articles about these groups/people for further info. The list as is, is not suitable for display in any article. --User:Zappaz 15:28, 1 May 2005 (UTC) :For clarity, can you indicate exactly which section you're referring to? Is it the one labelled "Allegations made by scholars and skeptics"? Thanks, -User:Willmcw 16:09, May 1, 2005 (UTC) ::No Will, the one that Andries, unilaterally moved to Apostasy, while we were civily discussing the issue here. Andries is not interested in consensus. I have summarized the section in the Apostasy article and deleted the grievances as discussed here. Thanks. --User:Zappaz 16:40, 1 May 2005 (UTC) :::Zappaz, okay, I am sorry and I guess you are right but the other side of the story is that if there is one place where it belong then it is in apostasy and you encouraged me to provide references for it, which took me hours and hours of work. User:Andries 17:25, 1 May 2005 (UTC) ==References needed for doubts about the apostates testimonies== I think that the doubts about the reliability of testimonies is not about facts but about interpretations of facts and the influence of the society on this interpretation. This is an important distinction that should be made. There is, I believe, apart from Wilson no scholar so crazy to make generalizations about the reliability of apostates. Please provide references for all the other scholars or I will remove the overly generalizing statements that, I believe, these scholars never intended to make. User:Andries 22:10, 19 May 2005 (UTC) :Andries: All the references you need are in the References section. If you need it I can provide you with more details. Thanks. --User:Zappaz 23:10, 19 May 2005 (UTC) Here ya go: *The Reliability of Apostate Testimony. Study by Dr. Kliever of Southern Methodist University. [http://www.neuereligion.de/ENG/Kliever/] *"Defectors, Ordinary Leave-takers, and Apostates: A Quantitative Study of Former Members of New Acropolis in France." Nova Religio 3 (1): 83-99, by Massimo Introvigne *"From Parchment to Pixels: The Christian Countercult on the Internet" by Douglas E. Cowan (University of Missouri - Kansas City) *Apostates and New Religious Movements, Bryan Ronal Wilson [http://www.neuereligion.de/ENG/Wilson/index.htm] *Taslimi, C.R., R.W. Hood and P.J. Watson (1991) 'Assessment of Former Members of Shiloh: The Adjective Check List 17 Years Later', Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, 30, pp. 306-1 *Wright, S.A. (1987) Leaving cults: The Dynamics of Defection (Monograph No. 7) Washington DC: Society for the Scientific Study of Religion, p. 87. *Latkin, C.A., R. Hagan, R. Littman and N. Sundberg (1990) 'Who Lives in Utopia?' A Brief Research Report on the Rajneeshee Project', Sociological Analysis, 48, 1987 73-81 and C.A. Latkin 'The Self-Concept of Rajneeshpuram Members', Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, 29, pp. 91-98. *"Programming and Deprogramming the Moonies: Social Psychology Applied," by Trudy Solomon, in David G. Bromley and James T. Richardson (eds.), Brainwashing Deprogramming Controversy, p. 167 *Bryan Wilson, The Social Dimensions of Sectarianism *David G. Bromley, Anson D. Shupe, Jr. and J.C. Ventimiglia, "The Role of Anecdotal Atrocities in the Social Construction of Evil," There is much more from were that comes from, if you need it. Should we now expand this section? --User:Zappaz 23:29, 19 May 2005 (UTC) :yes, well, I do not think that the current article incorporates the gist of Bromley's work but I have not read enough to be sure. Do you just list these books wiithout having read them because you think they support what you think is written in the article? User:Andries 05:18, 20 May 2005 (UTC) ===Dking additions=== I made a substantial addition to this section (and to other sections) today, anonymously, before signing up with a user name. I decided to get a user name because the people working on this article appear to be serious and work with each other in a relatively nontoxic way. I have been writing about cults (mostly political ones) for 30 years. I kept the reference to the word "apostate" as a term used by scholars such as Melton, but replaced it elsewhere with the more neutral word "former member." A large percentage of cults in the U.S. today are not religious, and the term "apostate" is not only less than neutral but also sounds strange when used in reference to political, marketing, self-improvement or psychotherapy cults. In my opinion this section is too narrowly focussed on the viewpoints of sociologists and scholars of comparative religion. Former cults members (aka "sources") are seen very differently by journalists, law enforcement, libel attorneys, etc. and I have tried to add that viewpoint. I began writing about political cults some years before it became the practice for ex-cult members to go to exit counselors; I dealt with dozens of members of political cults who had never been subjected to any reframing or artifactual-narrative-building process and many of whom were not in contact with one another. I was getting consistent stories, which often could be triple checked even on minute details and which I was able to also verify through court records, Freedom of Information requests and other paper-trail sources that sociologists and comparative religion scholars never use. The truthfulness of most of my sources stood the test of rigorous scrutiny by editors and libel attorneys and resulted in other sources coming forward with additional verification. The process was also tested by successfully weathering libel suits and, more significantly, by the fact that additional libel suits (on some of the most controversial information from my sources) were neither filed nor even threatened. Sources I worked with by and large had no obsession with getting even. They would tell their story and then move on with their lives. I never noticed that one individual being angrier than another led to the angrier one producing less accurate information. My experience is that former members who are willing to speak out are generally truthful and if their explanations of their memories should include some exit-counseling cant, any good journalist or investigator knows how to get around that--simply ask them to stick to the facts, like in Dragnet. Some sources will exaggerate, but I have found this is usually a function of their basic personality not of their grudge against the cult (they probably exaggerated when they were inside the cult too!). The inevitable popping up of exaggerators is one reason why journalists strive for double sourcing (at least) and backup documentation even on relatively noncontroversial allegations. I tried to add an investigative journalist's perspective (although today I function more as an internet activist and advocacy journalist against anti-Semitic groups) in other sections where it seemed to me there also was an academic narrowness of viewpoint. For instance, I added a paragraph on following the money trail and white-collar racketeering--things which Dr. Melton and even some scholars highly critical of cults seem to be insufficiently aware of. In reference to religious cults, I know that some groups have been treated unfairly by the media (the Unification Church in recent years, for instance). I also know that the NRMs are subjected to a double standard--they get slammed but a mainstream church doing the same thing or worse is often never criticized at all. I found the statement about the Chinese government's criminal persecution of Falun Gong to be way too weak, and I strengthened it accordingly. I believe that a lot of the endemic problems in this article could be cleaned up by restricting the term cult to "destructive" cults. If a group is not a destructive cult, it is not a cult--it is a sect. (The definition of sects as being splinters from mainstream religions and cults as being newborn groups is superficial and prevents us from adopting a more careful terminology.) Furthermore, if the evidence is inconclusive that a group is destructive, exploitative, etc., it should be given the benefit of the doubt and referred to as a sect. This suggestion does not address the underlying issue of the need for a dialectical definition of the cult as an ongoing process, but it could clear away a lot of confusion and acrimony and enable people to communicate more clearly. User:dking 3 June 2005 :Dking, I think you have to provide more references for what you write in the article. User:Andries 11:47, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::DKing, Welcome to Wikipedia. Although some of what you wrote is interesting, I removed your edits, because you need to Wikipedia:Cite_sources. FYI, Wikipedia is not a place to engage in Wikipedia:No original research (follow these wikilinks for more info. Would be also good that you read NPOV to familiarize youself on how Wikipedia works.) User:Jossifresco 16:41, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) Zappaz, on what pages of the books that you listed are the unreliability of apostates described? Thanks. User:Andries 11:47, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) I do not understand why Antaeus Feldspar keeps reverting my deletions. If these are factual information, let DKing provide sources. When you read these additions, it reads very much as an opinion, not as facts. If they are facts, we need sources. User:Jossifresco 18:54, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC) :Right, and it is only Wikipedia:Civility to give DKing a chance to provide his sources, rather than to make the assumption that because what he states is inconvenient to the "all cults are innocent" POV, it is baseless and must be removed, right? I'm sure you would extend that courtesy to anyone providing pro-cult information; please don't be a [*****] by denying it to those who provide information you find less comfortable. -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 19:28, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::Antaeus, you could have made these comments on your first revert, and not after your third. And please, refrain from Wikipedia:No personal attacks, thank you. DKing: please provide sources for your additions. I think that 5 days is a good period of time, until then, I am adding a disputed tag to this article. If by June 9 you have not provided sources, your additions will be deleted. As I mentioned before, and given the fact that you seem new to WP, please read NPOV so you become familiar with the basic principles of this project. User:Jossifresco 05:20, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) ::It is courtesy to give a new user the chance to proivide sources for his or her contributions but if this results in a factual accuracy warning until these sources are provided then I think the disadvantages outweigh the benefits of courtesy. A factual accuracy warning is one of the worst warnings one can have on an article. Hence I removed the edits by user:Dking to the last version by Jossi. User:Andries 08:05, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::Frankly, I think that factual accuracy warnings should probably be on this article 24/7. I mean, to read the article, you would never suspect that there are cults which have nothing to do with religion: political cults, therapy cults, pseudoscience cults. Because after all, if the viewpoint that "cult" refers to the structure of the group and not its beliefs were ever to be fairly represented in the article, it would show up as a lie the well-practiced accusation that the anti-cult movement is driven by an intolerance for non-mainstream religions. -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 15:49, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::::As far as I understood, this article as per the opening para - (my highlights) deals with: ::::
In religion and sociology, a cult is a group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs and goals which may be contradictory to those held by the majority of society. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or due to idiosyncratic practices that cause the surrounding culture to regard it as far outside the mainstream.
::::As such, one coud argue that oppossing a new religion can, in some instances, be a result of religious intolerance, bigotism and hate. ::::I think that a disambiguation page could help here, to include other uses of the term "cult" as presented by Antaeus. User:Jossifresco 23:24, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) == Jean Duhaime == The text from Jean Duhaime is in broken English. Anyone cares to fix that? Thanks. --User:Zappaz 23:13, 19 May 2005 (UTC) :I translated it from French. User:Andries 05:21, 20 May 2005 (UTC) == External links == I oppose only the external links by the UVa. The group database that was written by ''students'' of the UVa contains serious mistakes. E.g. the entry on Sai Baba. Some are obsolete. I wrote to (i.e first Jeffrey Hadden and then Douglas Cowan) several times during the last years but until now they have not improved the website. User:Andries 07:03, 28 May 2005 (UTC) I admit that the article by Michael Rogge on the psychology of cults and NRMs is excellent but there are also other viewpoints that should be represented. User:Andries The external links explanation says the following that justifies almost all external links :''On articles with multiple Points of View, a link to sites dedicated to each, with a detailed explanation of each link. The number of links dedicated to one POV should not overwhelm the number dedicated to any other. One should attempt to add comments to these links informing the reader of what their POV is.'' There are so many different POVs on cults that this sentence justifies almost all external links. User:Andries 07:11, 28 May 2005 (UTC) :I see your point, but I think at a certain point Wikipedia:What wikipedia is not overrules including a link for every different POV. Should you be allowed to have a link to your pet op-ed just because you don't agree with the links already present? On a topic as contentious as cults, I think the only thing that'll lead to is pages-long external links sections by everybody with a blog. Anybody else what to chime in with their opinion on what links to include here? --User:Weyes(User talk:Weyes) 07:24, 2005 May 28 (UTC) ::Weyes, first you give me the rules and ask me to explain why the external links follow the rules which I did and then you start saying that your own rules are overruled. I think this is a bit strange. User:Andries 07:35, 28 May 2005 (UTC) :::Not at all, there's merely a set of rules that overlap and in some cases are contradictory. I think in this case not turning wikipedia into a directory of every minority opinion out there is more important than listing every POV, but as said, policy could be interpreted either way. --User:Weyes(User talk:Weyes) 08:42, 2005 May 28 (UTC) ::::I removed some links but re-inserted the most important ones. They are not links to POVs of a small minority. User:Andries 15:27, 28 May 2005 (UTC) ==Cognitive dissonance and self-deception== Cognitive dissonance is a pivotal subject in understanding cults. It was tested on a UFO cult by Festinger. The history of the concept is strongly related to cults. User:Andries 04:42, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) With regards to self-deception, even Barrett who is very mild about cults wrote that you cannot talk members out of their faith because logical arguments do not impress them. I had not inserted this in the article because there is already a lot by him in the article and I do not want to break copyright. User:Andries 08:39, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) Btw, I am the first one to admit that both cognitive dissonance and self-deception are not unique to cults but I believe that those very common phenomenons can be found in extreme forms in some members of cults. User:Andries 08:43, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Yes, I am sure that there is an element of these in some cults. But there are also some elements of hate, religious intolerance, witch hunt. hate related tyo this subject. So I have added these as well to the See also section. User:Jossifresco 19:06, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC). ::Very good, Jossi! There's hope for you yet! Maybe someday this article could even include the fact that under one of the very widely used definitions of cult, a cult (or ''cultic group'', as some prefer for clarity) is ''all about'' cognitive dissonance and self-deception, and religion actually plays no part in the definition. -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 23:12, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::::Your assertion above is a neat example of Cognitive dissonance. :) I am getting real tired with all these discussions. I am taking a little break. Ciao. User:Jossifresco 05:02, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC) :::::I think perhaps you understand "cognitive dissonance" about as well as you understand "[sic]". :) -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 15:43, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Contributions on apostasy== Please do not remove my most recent contributions about apostasy/triangulation that are for the time being unreferenced. They are all contained in the book "Politics of religious apostasy " by David G. Bromley but I need some time to write it down more accurately. Thanks. Andries 08:18, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC) :What is the rush? If you are researching something, use a scraps page on your userspace, rather than an article for your notes. Thanks. --User:Zappaz 21:22, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Please limit Melton bashing in this article== Melton did say about the Peoples Temple, "This wasn't a cult. This was a respectable, mainline Christian group." [http://www.apologeticsindex.org/p21.html] though I think that it should be taken into account what definition of a cult he normally uses. I do not think that this is the right place for such extensive information about Melton. His own article is a better place. See J. Gordon Melton. User:Andries 08:38, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) Well, if the article is going to contain generalities about how paranoid and suspicious those who see the possibility for harm in cults are, it seems to me that it's acceptable, perhaps necessary for NPOV, to include well-referenced and specific information about how wrong "experts" who defend cults can be. -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 23:34, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) :FYI, these that you call "experts" and indeed experts. Or should we believe more the self-proclaimed "experts" such as Ross? or the AFF? Give me a break. ---User:Zappaz 05:30, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::"Expert" is as "expert" does, Zappaz. When "expert" takes money from a religious group to fly halfway around the world and call a press conference to announce (based solely on the evidence provided to them ''by the group'') that they ''could not have produced'' the nerve gas that they are accused of committing mass murder with, more than a month ''after'' police already discovered at the group's headquarters a secret laboratory quite capable of manufacturing the toxin -- then I don't see why his "expert" credentials should count for more than his actual track record. As for the "self-proclaimed" issue, it's hard to take you seriously on that issue, since you rely heavily on experts just as "self-proclaimed" as Ross. -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 23:40, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC) I am working on Melton's article in WP. Once I am done with it, then let's talk. --User:Zappaz 14:48, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) :It is clear that we should not take these experts very seriously, self-proclaimed or otherwise because they can and make and have made serious mistakes. And also because these NRM scholars do not agree with each other. User:Andries 18:44, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) :I first thought that Anton Hein was spreading negative propaganda about Melton but when I started reading Melton's books I observed that he indeed tries to belittle and minimize every single criticism of cults. I do not think that Melton works are biased because of the donations that he occasionally receives from NRMs. I believe that he is sincerely convinced that he needs to balance the many criticisms and negative generalizations by the ACM, but the problem is that he tries to do this so strongly that he is not credible anymore. I admit though that it is very difficult to write in the hypersensitive minefield of cults and NRMs and not to exaggerate or minimize matters. He is fully correct though in his opinion that many Christian countercult organizations are biased, ignorant and spread obsolete information about non-Christian religions User:Andries 18:56, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)


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