Criztu

== Welcome == Hello, and Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: *Wikipedia:How to edit a page; Wikipedia:Tutorial; Wikipedia:Picture tutorial *Wikipedia:How to write a great article; Wikipedia:Naming conventions; Wikipedia:Manual of Style I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedia:Wikipedians! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the Wikipedia:Help, add a question to the Wikipedia:village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! User:Whosyourjudas User talk:Whosyourjudas 23:51, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC) == Please, please, please... == ... when you are making substantive edits to articles, especially deletions, make clear comments on your edits and consider discussing them on the talk page. Especially if you are going to make wholesale changed to long-established articles, and especially if your dispute is with its point of view, this should not happen silently. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 18:48, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC) ==Romanian Revolution again== Could I ask you to look in on User:Ratza's recent changes to Romanian Revolution of 1989? Frankly, it looks to me mostly like conspiracy-theory stuff, but he seems to have at least some documentation (the quality of which I cannot easily judge). I've marked the article as disputed, and for now, I'm not cleaning up his English, because I'd rather have it stick out like a sore thumb, but some attention to it would be welcome. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 21:30, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC) Tons of the same material at Nicolae Ceausescu, too. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 21:35, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC) :Jmabel, actualy I removed a couple of lines from your contribution to "Communist Romania" article myself ... I invited everybody a week ago to discuss it, since nobody answered i moved those lines to discussion page.... and yes, most of the Revolution is disputed, it is that kind of truth that can't be made public until 25 years have passed. they will soon be 15, 10 more to go. But data on december 1989 chapter is accumulating, and the declarations of the members of CPEX(COmitetul Politic Executiv) in their Trial all point to ''Ceausescu offered his Resignation on 17 december 1989 following the same Pattern as the rest of the East Communist Countries, but couple of his henchmen asked him to remain chief of state, wich he did. the two members of CPEX that forced his hand into resignation(following the Pattern) were Stanculescu and Vlad, Stanculescu played on both sides, organising Ceausescu's "escape" from the CC building on 22 december 1989 after he(Ceausescu) remained Chief of State, but finally bringing him down at Targoviste''. just immagine, most of the members of CPEX were trialed, while Stanculescu was promoted to Head of the Army, after 1990... yes, in Romania he is regarded as the hand of the master mind behind 1989 chapter :and no, Securitate didn't ''fight for Ceausescu'' in December 1989, Securitate layed down weapons at the orders of Iulian Vlad on 22 december. at least this is the conclusions of the Trials that took place after 1989. also an Electronic War appears to have been going on over Romania in december 1989, also the number of russian "tourists" in Romania increased with 40 000 above average, altho' in 1989 there was the XVth Romanian Communist Party Congress :most of the info in wikipedia regarding december 1989 chapter is outdated, and seems taken from Voice of America and Europa Libera in 1989; in Romania there is a general consensus that december 1989 chapter is disputable, not "a revolution", not "a coup d'etat" ... 10 years from now we'll have the answer, perhaps :about Ratza additions on Ceausescu - he provides references to his sources. I am acquainted with those informations with the only reserve that all that "curageous communist activity of Dej and Ceausescu" might have been fabricated by the PCR. officialy it happened just like Ratza quoted from his sources. -- User:Criztu 22:14, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC) ::I'm a little confused: Ratza's edits were mostly this same Col. Burlan material that you now seem to be agreeing is just one account or many. Do you credit this material or not? I'm not claiming to be expert, but it all looks to me like one highly questionable and possibly self-serving account. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 20:05, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC) :::I think I was talking about Ratza's additions to Nicolae Ceausescu article(additions reflecting the official information on Ceausescu), while you reffered to Romanian Revolution article (additions that are not so correct ... certainly Stanculescu was not the head of Securitate) ... while there is a group of former officers that claim they plotted against Ceausescu, and the press(media) dealt with this claim, just like the theory of Hungarian interests in Transylvania in relation with december 1989 Tokes Laszlo "protest" was investigated by the media. As i said, the events in december 1989 and the fall of Ceausescu might have a "top secret" status due to implications ... so nothing is 100% certain as to who did what to overthrow Ceausescu . here an article with a couple of declarations of Stanculescu(Minister of Defence in 1989 after the death of Milea) about the december 1989 events: http://www.evenimentulzilei.ro/investigatii/?news_id=170131 User:Criztu 22:27, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC) == Re: Sibiu == I replied on my talk page -- User:Ferkelparade User_talk:Ferkelparade 14:57, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC) ---- fill out a User:Sj/Survey? User:Sj+">User Talk:Sj === "Wikification" === Dear Criztu, I suggest that you start with Russian history - say, rename Ivan Grozny John the Fearful, see the reactions and then come to edit Bulgarian history. User:VMORO :Please understand i don't intend on vandalising the Bulgaria Article. the name of John Asen was Ionitsa, and not Ivan. please, if you want the name of John Asen to be recorded as Ivan Asen, bring evidence it was Ivan and not Ionitsa, or Ioan, or anything else. The posibility that John Asen to have been a vlach himself is reason for me to wikify his name. i'd like his original name to be recorded on Wikipedia, be it Ivan, Ioan, Ionitsa or else. I've opened a thread on the discussion page of History of Bulgaria Article, where i ask for the name of John Asen. Please comment on the discussion page. User:Criztu 17:33, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::Why don't you have both the transliterated Bulgarian names (with original Cyrillic, if appropriate) and their Anglicised versions afterwards? That way, everyone would be happy. Similar compromises have been found for articles where the English version of a name is not the same as the original. -- User:Karada 17:47, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::i've opened a thread on Talk page of History_of_Bulgaria article on 9 december 2004, expressing my intenton on wikifying the name of John Asen. since nobody answered until today, 16 december 2004, and there was the precedent of Michael (in bulgarian it is ''Mihail''), i took it as an acceptance. then VMORO reverted my wikification edit, without discussing the issue, and since i was in the process of operating further wikification, i reverted his revert edit. i think WIkipedia has this rule of prefering the english form of christian/international names like George/Michael/John/Nicholas/etc. User:Criztu 18:02, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC) == Revolution, yet again == Could you take a look at Talk:Romanian Revolution of 1989#Competing narratives? I'm trying to see if we can move toward a consensus version. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 07:58, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC) Could I prevail on you to look in on this (and the following sections on the talk page) again? I've done a good bit of work, but there are still a lot of problems. I'd really like to get this article sorted out. It's clearly going to be arduous. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 00:34, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC) == A paragraph == Hey, what's up Criztu. About my earlier question, I already found out who wrote that paragraph on the Thracian language page: it wasn't you. It was an unregistered user. User:Decius 04:10, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC) == Moldova/Edit war == It's not just Moldova. It's 200 countries. Yes, a few of us are already on top of it. There's discussion of this on the Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard (or maybe, by the time you read this, its archives) and we seem to be reaching a solution at Wikipedia:Country infobox vote. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 18:03, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC) == Moş == About the Moş question: it is certain that the Romanian language word ''Moş'' is from the same source as the Albanian language words in question (the root is unidentified by scholars, though I think the root is *mer-, 'to waste away'). Yet, by no means are such words only found in Romanian and Albanian: those Latin words that I cited (''morus'', ''mos'', etc.) when I discussed ''Moş'' on the Dacian words talk page are most likely related to the Romanian and Albanian words, and there are some words in ancient Greek that I also connect (''moschias'', etc.). User:Decius 09:46, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC) :thanks Decius, i wasn't "challanging" you, i just wanted to know more from you, i am an enthusiastic in this romanian history thing, don't have a degree in either linguistics or history. I was curious about the origin of the romanian word "mos" beyond the "cf. albanian 'moshe'"(which i agree with), and you say you trace it to Indo-European, which info i find useful. I could only enumerate the word family of mo$ ::mo$ie - land inherited ::moa$a - older(experienced) women assisting at birth ::mo$tenire - heritage ::mo$gai - slow acting i'd relate ''Moesia'' and the ''Mesheks''(i'm not sure what people were these mesheks in Ukraine, perhaps khazars - i'm thinking at "mojic" - peasant) to this "mo$" word, :about the "x" in 'Zalmoxis', i've noticed the latin Brixium which is now Brescia (read ''Breshia'') or the river 'Argessos' in the lands of the getae, now Arge$ (read 'Argesh') in Romania (i would look also at 'Araxes' river in the lands of the Massagetae), or the word sax - in romanian sa$... what if Zalmoxis was in fact made-up of two words "Zal"+"Mox"(since it was a religious word, I'd expect something like "Bel"+"Marduk" or "Jupiter(Deus+Pater?)") and Herodotus have recorded this "sh" sound using the best available leter which was the "x" letter ? -- User:Criztu 10:51, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC) I was gone for awhile (took a nap), but I'm back. Okay, 'Zal' in no way can be the Getic form of 'Zeul'. The Daco-Getic word was more like Deu(s) or Zeu(s). 'Zal' would be a freakish mutation from the original IE root, Deiw-. I seriously doubt that 'Moxis' would contain the word 'mosh', because the Getic word was most likely either 'Mos' or 'Mosh', so the Greek writers should not have used a 'Xi' for the 'S' or 'Sh' sound. User:Decius 01:18, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC) ''Moş'' is not connected to "mojic". "Mojic" is from Slavic muzhik (peasant), which is from Slavic 'muzh' ('man'), which is not connected to ''moş''. 'Muzh' is said to be from PIE *mon, that meant 'man' (and I'm sure 'moş' is not from that root). ''Moş'' is not connected to the Mesheks either. User:Decius 01:19, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC) :actualy, i find it quite fascinating, this bulgarian "muzhe/maje" and the spanish "macho", and again, bulgarian ''momiche''(girl) and ''momche''(boy), and spanish ''muchacho'' and ''muchacha'', but i'm not a linguist, unfortunately, cuz i can tell i have this talent with languages :) -- User:Criztu 23:40, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC) == Alba Iulia/Gyula == Hey, check out the recent discussion at Gyula Talk. I know you want to get to the truth about the etymology of 'gyula', and so do I. I think we Romanians should work together every now & then, even though we have different ideas. User:Decius 08:51, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) :there's the "watch" button, so every page i contribute to, it automatically lists in "my watchlist" any consequent changes that other contribs make. -- User:Criztu 09:28, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) There is a good chance that "Scott Moore" is in fact a Hungarian. I've looked at his list of contributions: he's either Hungarian or he has a rare and bizarre case of Magyarophilia. He's living in Hungary, and he's religiously devoted to contributing to any and every Hungarian-related article, and very rarely to non-Hungarian related articles: sounds more like a case of a Hungarian who adopted an English pseudonym so when he edits Hungarian related articles he can appear "neutral". Either way, everything must be verified. User:Decius 10:05, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) Leaving aside the question of Mr. "Moore", there are often tell-tale signs left behind in the form of certain turns of phrases, agrammatical phrases, and typos that can reveal the first language (and thus even the ethnicity) of a person: for example, Romanian contributors often incorrectly spell English 'territory' (two r's) as 'teritory' (one 'r') because in Romanian we spell it 'teritoriu'. Now, let's say an anonymous User vandalizes a Hungarian article and leaves a phrase such as "All Hungary is truly to be considered Dacian teritory"---then you can safely assume the author was Romanian. I haven't wasted my time looking for such signs in the case of "Moore". But it's interesting to take note sometimes of these things. User:Decius 10:56, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) :I believe what Scott Moore says on his user page, that he is an englishman living in HU, and if you follow the debate on "Transylvania" you'll see that he looks charmed by the hospitality of the Hungarians (who really know how to be charming hosts, btw :) ) and wants to return them the service by listening to their POV and formulating the ideas accordingly, but he also seems an objective person in the end, as you can see from the aftermath of the "Transylvania as part of Romania" paragraph -- User:Criztu 11:59, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) If he's objective, then it doesn't matter his nationality. User:Decius 03:31, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC) == Ceauşescu == I'm hoping you might help in sorting out the remaining dispute at Nicolae Ceausescu. I've sorted out what I think should be relatively uncontroversial, and I've made Talk:Nicolae_Ceausescu#Trying_to_resolve_dispute_.26_POV_issues. Far and away the most serious issues are in the Nicolae_Ceausescu#Revolution_or.2Fand_Coup section of the article, which presents Burlan's claims as if they were uncontroversial fact. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 06:47, Feb 3, 2005 (UTC) == Kingdom of Vlachs and Bulgars == As you know, Bulgarians such as Vmoro and Ogneslav keep trying to "redirect" the Kingdom of Bulgarians and Vlachs article. That is no different from vandalism, because we have historical references and historical NPOV on our side. This should be settled by an arbitrator. If they keep doing it, they should be cited for vandalism, and even banned from Wikipedia for a time. User:Decius 11:47, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) == Zdravei, Hristo == Izchakai malko vreme, za da podredia neshtata. I uspokoi onzi Decius - rumuncite sa prekrasen narod, no ne sa suzdali te sveta. Imalo e i drugi narodi, koito i sami sa mogli da imat durjava, bez rumunska pomosht. Az ne se byrkam v statiite za rumunska istoria, nali. Pozdravi :) - User:Ogneslav 12:49, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) :Wait a little, so i can sort things out. And calm Decius - romanians are a wonderful people, but the world is not their creation. There are other people too, which were able to have a state, without romanian help, I don't touch/mess the articles from romanian history, isn't it?" -- User:Criztu 13:40, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) User:Decius 13:56, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) :there is this romanian word "norod" meaning "people" -- User:Criztu 14:12, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) Yeah, but when I saw 'narod', the word that came to mind given the situation (a lot of bad energy passing back and forth) was not 'norod', but 'narod'. Both Romanian words are from Slavic. User:Decius 14:32, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) as ne sam rumanetz, as sam massagetae :) -- User:Criztu 13:31, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) "Im not a Romanian, I'm a Messagetae". Hmm. User:Decius 13:39, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) A ti otkude znaesh bulgarski? - User:Ogneslav 12:58, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) ot balgarskata televizia znam, normalno :) -- User:Criztu 13:31, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) "From Bulgarian television I learned it, of course". Hmm, I think I can learn bulgarian by lunchtime. :) User:Decius 13:39, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) ama, balgarskata gramatica e dosta cato rumanskata, Ogneslave, misliam ce znaesh che Martenitza i Martsishorul sa excliusivno rumunski-balgarsku obichai, nali ? triabva edno "Martenitza-Martsishor" wikiArticle, kakvo kazvashi ? -- User:Criztu 13:31, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) He-he, sure... I never heard of Martsishor - tell me more about it. As one of my friends say: Bulgarians and Romanians are the two nations that are most similar to each other, only that they don't know it yet. And here is what I can say in Romanian: :Necazuri si suparari :toata lumea are :Ale mele sunt mai mari :Cu ce-am gresit oare? :Doamne, de ce nu vrei :Pacatele sa mi le iei? :Cu ce, Doamne, am gresit :Ca eu n-am facut nimic... :Cat a plans inimioara mea :Cat am suferit in lipsa ta :Mare, mare suparare :Cand nu esti sufletul imi moare. :Cate lacrimi am varsat :Cat am plans si am oftat :Dar nu vrei sa ma iubesti :Si din plans sa ma opresti :Pentru cat am suspinat :Cine se duce in iad ? :Pentru cat ma amageai :Cine se duce in Rai? I know this from the Bulgarian television also :) And here's a small lexicon: * Ro. ''ale'' = Bg. ''ale/ala'' * Ro. ''cu'' = Bg. ''cude'' * Ro. ''gresit'' = Bg. ''gresi'' * Ro. ''lipsa'' = Bg. ''lipsa'' * Ro. ''iubest'' = Bg. ''liubis'' * Ro. ''(i)ad'' = Bg. ''ad'' * Ro. ''rai'' = Bg. ''rai'' And all this is just in a short song ;) - User:Ogneslav 16:11, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) *Ro. ''unde'' = Bg. ''kude'' *Ro. ''mea, ta'' = Bg. ''moia, tvoia'' *Ro. ''ele sunt'' = Bg. ''te sa'' *Ro. ''sa mi'' = Bg. ''da mi'' *Ro. ''plans < plange'' = Bg. ''placha'' *Ro. ''moare'' = Bg. ''umira'' - User:Criztu 16:41, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) Ogneslav, learn something about Latin and maybe you would have realized that many of those words are from Latin. *Ro. 'Ale' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Unde' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Cu' is inherited From Latin. *Ro. 'Mea' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Ta' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Ele' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Sunt' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Sa' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Plange' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Moare' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Mi' is inherited from Latin. *Ro. 'Lipsa' is ultimately from Greek. *Ro. 'Iad' is ultimately from Greek 'Aides' (Hades). User:Decius 16:34, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) : You're so cute in your efforts :)) Then how about rasplata, ispit, izbaveste, voia, in veci, sfinti, dragoste, voinic, veselie, gospodar... more? : Ok now, don't take this too serious - have fun Alexandre :) Pozdravi, - User:Ogneslav 16:51, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) Martsishor(spelled Martisor) e tozi obichai (rumunski "obicei") - Red-White strings gadgets (identical to bulgarian Martenitza, but the bulgarian custom seems richer to me), at the begining of March (Bg. Mart, Ro. Martie) -- User:Criztu 16:41, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) *Rom. 'Martie' is actually inherited from Latin (contrary to DEX). User:Decius 16:47, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) : BTW, anyone has any idea where is the word Paparuda from ? It appears to be one of those common Romanian-Bulgarian words. User:Bogdangiusca | User talk:Bogdangiusca 16:55, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) :: Indeed it is. ''Peperuna'' is the name of a South Slavic goddess of rains and moist, wife of Perun. Bulgarian Slavs celebrated its festivals till 19th century and called it ''peperuda'' or ''peperuga''. They named the insect (butterfly) after the goddess. - User:Ogneslav 17:00, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) ::: i don't know anything extra about Paparuda, i am also curious about the romanian Caloian custom -- User:Criztu 17:34, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) Don't take this too serious, but I thank the Stars that my native language is Romanian, and not Bulgarian. User:Decius 17:08, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) You were, it seems (maybe not actually) trying to diminish the Romanian language. I don't care how many Slavic words we do or don't have, the Romanian language is still the greatest Romance language on earth, because it has the true spirit of the old Latin language and even the soul and spirit of the Dacian language, and whatever you say against it is like the buzzing of a fly. User:Decius 17:48, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC) Of the Slavic languages, I agree that Bulgarian is closest to Old Slavonic, and wow, I guess that is something. I still much prefer Romance to Slavic, aesthetically speaking, though of course I'm not saying Latin/Romance is "superior" , because it's a matter of taste. It doesn't bother me, really, that we have a nice amount of Slavic words, because they add their own flavor. Even though there is also a nice number of words that are generally thought to be "from Slavic" that are in fact native to Romanian, and trust me, there are plenty of linguists out there who agree.User:Decius 15:46, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC) ::I am not even slightly agressive: I have subjected you neither to physical, nor to verbal abuse. Well, the first is not even possible:-)). So, pls, amend your terminology. And this is not a personal crusade, this is an established fact which easily can be proven. Anyway, for the time being, I have placed the content of the article on the discussion page. ::As for Old Bulgarian: First, Old Bulgarian regards the period between the 9th and the 11th century. In the 14th, 15th century we are talking about Middle Bulgarian. The name Church Slavonic is likewise wrong as it is used for the Russian recension of Church Slavonic and this was not the recension used in Wallachia and Moldova. Any other questions? User:VMORO 21:35, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)~ == Confirming Balkan == Hi Criztu. I'm going to go to a good university library in a few days, and I'll look for a comprehensive Turkish dictionary, and see what I find. The internet dictionaries (as you know) aren't good enough. User:Decius 23:49, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC) You know more Bulgarian than I do, so I was wondering if there is any such word (doesn't have to be exactly the same) as 'varlav', an adjective meaning 'quick', in Bulgarian? One of these days, I plan on learning to fully read Bulgarian, so I can know at least one Slavic language. User:Decius 00:01, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC) :there is this върл ("vurl", read 'vārl') in the BG-RO dictionary meaning "1.rāu, crud 2.pishcātor 3. grābit 4. pasionat, fervent" :there is this върлувъм (vurluvam", read 'vārluvām') meaning "a-shi face de cap, a face ravagii, a b�ntui" :i only know about "burzo/burz"(read 'bārzo/bārz' meaning ''fast/quick'' (i'm thinking of Trajan's "inde Berzobim" and the Barzava/Bistritza rivers in RO... i don't know) -- User:Criztu 11:37, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC) Bulgarian (also common Slavic) 'burz' (quick, fast) is from the PIE *bhers (quick, fast). Since the word ('bhers' was a Proto-Indo-European word) is rather common Indo-European, it may well be that the Daco-Thracians also had the word in some form, and there is a Thracian name Bruzas which is beleived by some to derive from *bhers. The Romanian word 'breaz' is considered to be from Slavic, and that is perhaps "the simplest" explanation---but is it the correct explanation. User:Decius 00:52, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC) ::i found this "gaelic"(welsh) word br�agha meaning ''fine, splendid, beautiful'' http://www.mackinnon.me.uk/Faclair -- User:Criztu 20:48, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC) Interesting. I don't know what root that Welsh word is from, but there is a Proto-Indo-European root *bhereg, 'to shine, bright, white'. User:Decius 00:04, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC) == Transylvania == I agree: we should lock the Transylvania page, so idiots like the recent 'anonymous' don't fill it up with bullshyyt. How do pages get locked? That sounds interesting. User:Decius 22:37, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC) :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protection_policy -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection -- User:Criztu 23:44, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC) == Tarraco == I don't know of any strong connecting link between ''Tarraco'', ''Traci'', and ''Targ'' (or Greek ''Targaino'') other than the similar forms. Here is a short article about ''Tarraco'': [http://www.mnat.es/eng/tarraco/]. The city is now known as Tarragona. The name of the town may be from the Iberian language spoken before Romanization, and the similarity is probably (but not definitely) a coincidence. User:Decius 05:23, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC) Another thing that might be of interest is the Tarragon plant: the name is from Arabic, related in some way to Greek 'drakon' (dragon, serpent). Any relation to the city is unknown. Since the plant name is connected with serpents/dragons, if someone connects 'tarragon' to 'tarraco' then someone is connecting 'tarraco' to 'dragons, serpents'. User:Decius 05:42, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC) == Dacia Malvensis == I'm trying to gather more info on the borders of Dacia Malvensis, a southern province of Dacia. I was wondering what you know about Dacia Malvensis, which is said to have been named after a town called Malva. I also started this stub Malvesa, a Roman mining town near the border of Bosnia and Serbia, that had a similar name. I read somewhere that Dacia Malvensis was equivalent with Dacia Ripensis (mal>ripa) but that source didn't give evidence. User:Decius 06:40, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC) == Comparisons == Here is a site I find interesting (and sometimes useful), and which will help: it's called 'Magyar Comparisons', put together by a private researcher (don't know if he has credentials), some Hungarian guy. He is doing a cross-comparison of Hungarian words to words from all kinds of languages. I've only looked through some of it. Mostly he seems to be looking for cognates, though sometimes he proposes that certain words of obscure origin are "in fact" from Hungarian: well, what can you expect from a Hungarian researcher. Anyway, the site is interesting: [http://member.melbpc.org.au/~tmajlath/index1.html]. User:Decius 14:21, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC) There is also 'f�rj' that means 'man' (and 'old man', etc.), and that has to be analyzed together with 'ferfi', I would assume. I don't plan on comparing too many Hungarian words to PIE roots until I verify the Hungarian etymologies---too many chances for error, and who wants to make errors. Of course, in private papers one can research all kinds of connections. User:Decius 15:16, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Spargapeithes vs. Spargapises == I don't like connecting Getae and Daci to the Massagetae (who Herodotus tells us practiced institutionalized cannabalism: see Herodotus 1.216), but I found a 'datum' that in my opinion definitely connects Agathyrsi to Massagetae in some fashion: there was an Agathyrsi King named Spargapeithes (recorded in Herodotus), and there was a Massagetae leader named Spargapises (also recorded in Herodotus), son of Tomyris, Queen of the Massagetae. I'm looking at 5 possibilities (among others one might think of): 1) the Agathyrsi were Scythian; 2) or they were more Scythian than Thracian, and it is already known that the Scythians were probably Iranic, and the Massagetae were also probably Iranic: so that explains that similarity. 3) Or, one can say the Getae (and Daci) were Scytho-Iranic, and not Thracian: I don't like that idea, nor do I see real evidence for it. 4) Fourth possibility, the Agathyrsi were Thracians with a large Scythian element. 5) Fifth possibility, Agathyrsi, Scythians, and Massagetae were a separate branch, not Thracian or Iranic. User:Decius 00:57, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) :yes, I noticed this Spargapises vs. Spargapeithes too. I've also noted the name "getae" that Herodotus asssigned to a number of barbarians. Has anyone tried to find out the meaning of "getae" ? -- User:Criztu 12:30, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::I haven't seen any etymology for it. Any etymology would probably be a guess at this stage. User:Decius 22:59, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) If the Daci and Getae were Iranic, then our substratum words are not Dacian, they are Thracian. But I'm not worried about the Daci being Iranic, because the names, toponyms, etc., don't look Iranic (if they were Iranic, linguists would have found out by now). User:Decius 01:04, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) :if i'm not mistaking, "getae" would be pronounced as "Ghetai"(in romanian) :1. i wonder if there's any connection to Katai/Kitai (the bulgarian word for China) this would've probably meant "people from direction of China" - arguments: the romanian word tarim (realm) confer turkish ''tarim'' is exactly the name of the Tarim Basin where the tocharian Taklamakan/Urumchi mummies have been found. read the Yuezhi wikiarticle... and look at the names of the various tribes Asi/Azi/Uzi/Iassi/Yazi, which i think meant "from Asia". -- User:Criztu 12:30, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Assumptions must be avoided: I'm not sure whether those tribal names mean 'from Asia'. I'll get back to you on this issue. User:Decius 23:07, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) :2. i am wondering if "Ge-tae" isn't a fusion of the words 'Aga' (leaders/royals) and 'Dahae/Daai', something like yaz-iG or aGa-thyrsi, or oG-uz. -- User:Criztu 12:30, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::''Agathyrsi'' might contain ''Aga'' (leader), and I once read a website by a Turkish guy who was trying to prove that the Scyths spoke a Turkic language, and he cited that example. Now, I don't see any indication that Getae contains "aga" in any form. User:Decius 23:12, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) :Getae should be separated like this: Get+ai, 'ai' indicating plural. I'm satisfied with saying that in no way whatsoever can '-tae' have any relation to Dac-. User:Decius 01:03, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) I've been fishing around, and I see that a lot of scholars and linguists view the Agathyrsi as mixed Thraco-Scythic or Scytho-Thracic (probably most hold this view), while many simply class them as Scythian. Sorin Olteanu in his Thraco-Daco-Moesian Index (A-Alm) classifies the Agathyrsi as a Scythian tribe, and he placed a cross symbol in front of the Ethnonym "Agathyrsi", which indicates that he doesn't consider it a Thraco-Daco-Moesian ethnonym. I now agree: the Agathyrsi were at least heavily mixed with Scythian if not Scythian (Herodotus indicates they had many Thracian customs; archaeologists connect them with a "Thraco-Scythian" culture). User:Decius 03:14, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) :what if the turkish (what's the origin of "Dag" ? from what ancient lang.?) word Dag (mountain) is connected to Dacia ? look at these parthian words Katpatuka(Cappadocia) and Kopet Dagi(Kopet Mountain), what if Dacia meant Montana/Mountainia or something ? -- User:Criztu 12:30, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::It's weird that you mention that, because just last night I was thinking about whether in fact Dacia was named after the Daci, or the Daci after Dacia. And when I started thinking about Dacia and what would somebody likely name it for, of course I thought of ''mountains''. But I haven't really researched those Turkic or Asiatic languages, so I don't know. I still feel that Dacia was more likely named after the Daci, so probably we should ask "what does Daci mean"?. User:Decius 22:56, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) :I'm going to ask you a question, so I can understand what framework you are dealing with. Do you believe that the Daci and Getae were Thracians?: 1)yes, 2)no, 3)undecided/still debating. I consider that the Daci and Getae were Thracians. User:Decius 23:46, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) Also consider this: the ancients considered the Getae as Thracians, and (Strabo) said the Daci were the western division of the more easterly (towards the Black Sea) Getae. There is no account or even myth that the Daci and Getae came from the east. Yet, in the case of Cimmerians (I can't remember the Cimmerian account, but I think I read it) and Scythians, and even Agathyrsi (in the form of a symbolic myth), there are indeed such accounts. The Daci & Getae were in the area long before the Scythians. The most likely scenario is that the Daci and Getae were Thracians, and were living in Romania since very early times (probably since the Indo-European invasion of Europe, if there was such an invasion). I really can't understand why you are looking towards the east, and towards the Asiatic hordes---let the Hungarians and Mongols look in that direction, is what I say. User:Decius 23:59, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) Also, the Massagetae had this custom: no one died of old age among them, because when someone passed a certain age, the family members gathered around, killed the person, boiled them, then ate their flesh. A mere rumor? maybe not. I can't imagine why anyone would even want to include Massagetae among their ancestors. User:Decius 00:19, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) As I suspected, Asia is from Greek, and they of course applied it to the Asiatic lands they knew of: at first, mostly to Anatolia, later extending east. The source and etymology of the Greek word is unknown: some connect it to Akkadian (Semitic) ''asu'', 'to go out, to rise', referring perhaps to the east where the sun rises. From what I know, the term Asia was not even used in Asia till it was imported much later (it's still hardly used among Asiatic peoples themselves). Those tribal names, I'm pretty certain, do not mean "from Asia". User:Decius 02:09, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) If I'm wrong, let me know. User:Decius 02:12, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) In this situation, there are some things that bother me: It must still be proven/demonstrated that Getae is not related to the apparent "-getae" suffix that we find for example in Massagetae; it must be further shown that Daci and Getae are not related to those tribes with similar names that lived near the Caspian Sea. User:Decius 03:03, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) When I say "must", I mean just to clear up the matter once and for all. Most scholars do not seriously consider any connection, so the burden of establishing a case is on those who seriously consider a connection. User:Decius 06:15, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Avars, Hebrews == Here is an interesting idea I found in these articles, that the Avars who once invaded Transylvania and set a temporary kingdom may have been a Hebraic people (Evrei): see Eurasian Avars and Caucasian Avars. The Caucasian Avars, when they refer to key Biblical and Koranic figures, use the adjective 'avarkov', which may be etymologically related to ''Hebrew''. There are also supposedly ancient Hebrew inscriptions in the Transylvania area (?), perhaps from those Eurasian Avars. User:Decius 03:32, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) :interesting indeed, and i thing the IE root *Wlkwo stands at the origin of the name Avar. :i am looking at the following words: *Hercynia - caes.gal.6.24 ; caes.gal.6.25 : ''Accordingly, the Volcae Tectosages, seized on those parts of Germany which are the most fruitful [and lie] around the Hercynian forest, (which, I perceive, was known by report to Eratosthenes and some other Greeks, and which they call Orcynia), and settled there. [...] The breadth of this Hercynian forest [...] extends in a right line along the river Danube to the territories of the Daci and the Anartes'' *Hyrcania - ''Hyrcana (Old Persian Vark�na, 'land of 'wolves';'' - there is this relation Parthians< Parni< Dahae and ofcourse Massagetae revolving around the area of Varkana. *Varega - varangians *Farkas (hungarian) - wolf *Varcolac (romanian, RO DEX gives bg. origin Varkolak) (read V'rcolac) - werevolf .. is Varcolac a Vulk+Lycos construction ? *Vulk (bulgarian) (read V'lk) - wolf *Harc (hungarian) (read Hartz) - fight ... in romanian "Harţ�"(read Hartza) *Hercule - what if Hercule meant "warrior/wolf" or something like that ? i'm wondering :and ofcourse, in today Dagestan there is this Avar lang. still spoken, and further east of Dagestan there lies Tadjikistan, in the same area where the Dahae and Massagetae once roamed. i read about this country called Daxia (Bactria, today Balkh) by the chinese in the antiquity (i don't know in what circumstances did the chinese call the area Daxia, but i assume it was in relation to the migration of the Yuezhi to Bactria - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-12%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=chinese+Daxia :closing the circle, one of the ethnicity of Menumorout and his Bicharia could have been the Kabar/Kavar, but then look at Bukhara with its Tadjik population, the same area that the Massagetae inhabited... (i hope that ''Bughar/Bulgar/Voulgares/Balkhar, Balkan, Blachii, Valachia and Bucuresti/Bucharest'' have already crossed your mind reading the infos i enumerate here (in a non-scholarly fashion, unfortunately) -- User:Criztu 10:19, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::The DEX says Romanian ''v�rcolac'' is from Bulgarian ''v�rkolak'', but I notice that Slavic languages (including Bulgarian: see Bul. 'v�lk', 'wolf') have not rhotacized the 'l' (from PIE *wLkwo). Romanian rhotacizes more than Slavic. But I haven't studied this word enough to say the DEX is wrong yet. User:Decius 11:11, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::From your list, Hercules is not possible (it is indeed from anc. Greek 'hera-kles', no need to debate that). Varega/Varangian also doesn't look right. The Hungarian word (farkas) is indeed an interesting parallel (which I've noticed before), and also interesting is that we find the same form as a common Caucasian language root *bhark, meaning 'wolf'. I don't think ''avar'' is from *wlkwo based on what I've seen so far. User:Decius 11:11, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Vulk-Lycos is not the case in ''v�rcolac''. User:Decius 11:14, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::I did not make a connection to Hung. ''harc'', and I don't think there is one. Ro. ''Artsagos'' is from Hung. ''harcag'' (=harc). User:Decius 11:34, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::I think ''Daxia'' is a pure Chinese compound, Ta-Hia, and if so: we can be sure it has nothing to do with Dacia. User:Decius 11:19, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::I think it has a connection with the Daha/Dahae -- User:Criztu 19:07, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Hercynia in old Europe is not likely to be from PIE *wlkwo: though it might be from a Pre-IE parallel form. The Hyrcania example is misleading: 'Urkania (a more direct transliteration of Hyrcania from Greek: remember Greek had no letter for the 'h' sound) was a Greek rendering of Varkana: Greek by that time no longer had the letter or sound for 'v/w', so the 'v' in Persian 'varkana' got dropped: varkana>'yrkana ('urkana). Now, the problem is, if the same thing happened in the case of Greek ''orcynia'' (which in your scenario would be from Vorcunia, 'wolf forest'), why was the 'v/w' not represented (Ex: 'Vercynia')in Latin (Caesar's text)? The Latin ''hercynia'' shows that there was no 'v/w', and there is no known Indo-European language that can yield *herc from *wlkwo: and it is not likely that any Indo-European language could do that (it requires a weird w>h sound-change as well as a l>r, which is an unlikely combination). The only way to salvage the 'wolf' connection is to derive Hercynia from a parallel pre-IE form (see Caucasian & Hungarian forms). There is always the possibility that the forest name was not connected to 'wolf' also. User:Decius 14:17, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Szekelyfold == Dear Criztu, unless proven otherwise, you should consider the edits of someone as made in good faith. It seems you have set up your mind for an edit war, which i'd have no pleasure to pursue. You keep deleting objective reference to Szekelyfold on the basis of your perception that there is no such historical region. I just wonder if you would delete reference to, say, Oltenia based on the same argument. (Or would you "lol" at the statement that Olteans are inhabitants of Oltenia?). Indeed, there is the same strong connection between Szekelyfold and a geographical region in the mind of ''every'' hungarian, as for Oltenia in Romanians. You say, "cuz i look at the map of Austria-Hungary in 1918 and i see no "historical region Szekelyfold".. Do you think this is enough argument to suppose it didn't exist? In fact, there ''was'' an administrative region, Szekelyfold, too. It lasted until 1867 when new counties were drawn after a compromise with the hapsburgs. You may even find maps of it (and see that its shape has nothing to do with today Harghita, covasna, mures) on the Hungarian national library site http://www.topomap.hu/oszk/terkepek.htm or on http://historicaltextarchive.com/hungary. But I'm not historian, I'm sure there is even more reference to it than that. User:Akiss 06:01, 31 May 2005 (UTC) ::You can find a quite detailed description of the history of the Szeklerland in the German Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szekler) --User:Tamas 10:00, 31 May 2005 (UTC) :::Akiss, Tamas, pls make an effort and put a timeline of the Szekelyfold in the Szekelys and Szekelyfold articles, that would be great. -- User:Criztu 10:10, 31 May 2005 (UTC) == Aromanian & Megleno-Romanian == You might want to check on these pages every now & then and revert the greek propaganda: Aromanian language and Megleno-Romanian language. An unscrupulous user here is User:Theathenae and his/her nationalistic Greek agendas. User:Decius 01:56, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Criztu

By the way, # you can sign your name in a page by putting ~~~; ~~~~ is name and timestamp. Pretty much everyone does this on talk pages, I recommend it. # I see you are making a lot of repeated saves: in case you don't know, you can use "show preview" to look at what you wrote before saving. #If you are working really heavily on an article for an hour or two, you can stick at the top of the article while you are working (but please remember to remove it when you are done or taking a break!) and usually no one else will touch the article while you are working, avoiding edit conflicts. Also, you should know, it's generally considered bad form to delete items from your discussion page. -- User:Jmabel | User talk:Jmabel 18:14, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)

Criztu

I think i am a Massagetae, but technically i'm a Romanian, indeed. massa in old iranian meant BIG... you can compare with mass/massive. Getae were a people Herodotus(book 4.93 - 4.95) wrote about, describing their monotheistic religion... they believed in Zalmoxis. Zalmoxis was a former slave in Egypt, that taught his people(the getae) that the soul is immortal, and that there is life after death. to convince his people of his words, Zalmoxis went in a cave for 3(three) years, people thinking he was dead. Zalmoxis reappeared from his tomb after those three years, convincing his people about his teachings, and the getae venerated him as a god after he died for good. http://www.iranchamber.com/history/herodotus/herodotus_history_book4.php I believe Zalmoxis meant Zeul Moş in getae language. Zeu/Zeul in romanian means God/the God, while List_of_Dacian_words(read ''mosh'') means Elder. I believe Zalmoxis was non other than Moses, and the Getae were the tribe of Gad, one of the 12 tribes of God. I believe the four rivers of Garden_of_Eden were Danube, Dniester, Don and Dnieper, alternatively the ''a river flowes out of Eden to water the garden, and there it divided and became four rivers'' could have been the Danube river and its four branches (one of which had dissapeared in the meantime, but there is this recent Danube-Black Sea man made canal in Romania) forming its Delta, and the flooding of Black Sea stands at the basis of Great Flood myths. ehrr... I also eat Apple -and fruits in general- as much as possible. Until mankind will find a way to supply itself with energy without eating stuff, mankind will remain animalkind. so the best human specimen of our days(2004 CE) is nothing but a somewhat advanced animal specimen to me. oh, and... have I told you that history implies a lot of Propaganda ?

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