Chess Variant - meaning of word
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Chess Variant



#redirect Chess variant

Chess variant



A chess variant is any game derived from, related to or similar to chess in at least one respect. The difference from chess can include one or more of the following: * Different board (larger or smaller, another board form, e.g. hexagonal or circle) * Fairy pieces, different from those in chess * Different rules for capture, move order, game goal etc. The national chess variants like xiangqi and shogi are traditionally also called chess variants in western world. They have many similarities with chess and share a common ancestor. In the context of chess problem, chess variants are called ''fantasy chess'', ''heterodox chess'' or ''fairy chess''. Some chess variants are used only in chess composition and not for playing. To experts of chess variants, chess, shogi, xiangqi, and other chess-related games of great popularity are merely special cases in a theoretically unlimited universe of possible arrangements involving boards, pieces, rules, and so on. Hundreds of chess variants have been devised. With the recent creation in 1998 of Zillions of Games, a computer program which enables non-experts to quickly design and playtest chess variants using an AI opponent, the total number has been increasing constantly and rapidly. This growth is likely to continue for years. ==Chess-derived games== These chess variants are derived from chess by changing board, rules or adding new pieces. ===Chess with unusual rules=== These chess variants have the same pieces as chess, but some rules for moving, capturing etc. are changed. The board shape and game goal can be also different from those in chess. * Alice chess: played with two boards. A piece moved on one board passes "through the looking glass" onto the other board. * Andernach chess: a piece making a capture changes color. * Archon (computer game): success of piece capture depends on the strength of the attacking piece (with better chances for more powerful piece). * Atomic chess: any capture on a square results in an "atomic explosion" which kills (''i.e.'' removes from the game) all pieces in any of the 8 surrounding squares, except for pawns. * Avalanche chess: each player moves an opponent's pawn after their move. * Checkers chess: normal rules of chess are followed, however, pieces can only move forward until they have reached the last row. * Checkless chess: where players are forbidden from giving check (board game) except to checkmate. * Circe chess: captured pieces are reborn on their starting squares. * Compact chess: In Compact Chess, you play on a 6×6 board whereby the bishops are moved to replace the king and queen's pawn. All standard chess rules apply, including castling. * Crazyhouse: captured pieces change the color and can be dropped on any unoccupied location. There are two variations of this chess variant, known as Loop Chess and Chessgi. * Cylinder chess: played on regular 8x8 chessboard with the same pieces, start position and rules as for standard Chess. The only difference is that A and H columns are "connected". Thus a player can use them as A column would be next to H column (and vice versa). * Dark Chess: you see only positions attacked by your pieces. * Extinction chess: you win by extincting a type of piece of your opponent. That is, you win if you capture your opponents king or queen, both his rooks, bishops or knights, or all his pawns. * Fischer Random Chess: the placement of the pieces on the 1st and 8th rank is randomized. * Grid chess: the board is overlaid with a grid of lines; for a move to be legal, it must cross at least one of these lines. * Hexapawn: a simple chess variant played only with pawns. * '''King's Corner chess''': like Fischer Random Chess, the placement of the pieces on the 1st and 8th row are randomized, but with the king in the right hand corner. Blacks starting position is obtained by rotating white's position 180 degrees around the boards center. * Knightmare Chess: played with cards that change the game rules. * Kriegspiel (chess): each player does not know where the opponent's pieces are but can deduce them with information from a referee. * Madrasi chess: a piece which is attacked by the same type of piece of the opposite colour is paralysed. * Marseillais Chess: after the first turn of the game by white being a single move, each player moves twice per turn. * Monster Chess: white has the king and four pawns against the entire black army but may make two successive moves per turn. * Multiple move chess: players make multiple moves each turn according to a few special rules to keep the game fairly traditional. * Patrol chess: captures and checks are only possible if the capturing or checking piece is guarded by a friendly piece. * Pion coiffé: you need to deliver checkmate with a pawn to win. * Progressive chess: (a.k.a. Scotch Chess) the first player moves once, the second moves twice, the first moves three times, etc. * Antichess: (a.k.a. Giveaway Chess, Take Me Chess, Losers Chess, Antichess, Must Kill) capturing moves are mandatory and the object is to lose all pieces. * Three Checks Chess: you win if you check your opponent three times. * Three-dimensional chess: several variants exist, with the most popular being "Tri-D Chess" from the television series Star Trek. * Quiz bowl chess: you must answer trivia questions in order to move a piece. If a question is answered incorrectly, the turn is forfeited. ===Multiplayer variants=== These variants arose out of the desire to play chess with more than just one other person. * Bughouse chess: (a.k.a. Tandem Chess, Siamese Chess, Swap Chess) two teams of two players face each other on two boards. Allies use opposite colours and give captured pieces to thier partner. * Djambi: can be played by four people with a 9x9 board and four sets of special pieces. The pieces can capture or move the pieces of an adversary. Captured pieces are not removed from the board, but turned upside down. There are variants for three players or five players (pentachiavel). * Forchess: a four-person version using the standard board and two sets of standard pieces. * Four-handed chess: can be played by three or four people and uses a special board and four sets of differently colored pieces. ===Chess with unusual pieces=== The most pieces in these chess variants are taken from chess. The game goal and rules are also very similar to those in chess. However these chess variants include one or more fairy pieces, which move differently then in chess. * Baroque chess: (a.k.a. Ultima) most of the pieces move like queens. They are named after their unusual capturing methods; e.g., Chameleon, Immobilizer, and Coordinator. * Capablanca chess: a few game variations played on a 10×8 or 10×10 board with two new pieces: Chancellor (Rook+Knight) and Archbishop (Bishop+Knight). * Gary Gygax: uses three 8×12 boards atop one another, with new types of chess piece. * Gothic Chess: is a commercial chess variant played on a 10x8 board with a Chancellor and an Archbishop as new pieces. It was patented in 2002 by Ed Trice. It is similar to Capablanca Chess. * Grand chess: is a popular chess variant played upon a 10x10 board. It was invented in 1984 by Christian Freeling. It is related to Capablanca Chess. * Janus Chess: played on 10×8 board with a fairy chess piece, (Bishop+Knight) named a Janus. * Maharajah and the Sepoys: black has a complete army, white only one piece - Maharajah (Queen+Knight). * Omega chess: played on a 10×10 board with a four extra squares, one per corner. Also, there are two fairy chess pieces used. *Ultima: Another name for Baroque chess. ===Games inspired by chess=== These chess variants are very different from chess and can be considered as an own abstract board game and not as a chess variant. * Arimaa: A game inspired by Garry Kasparov defeat to computer chess Deep Blue, this game is easy to understand but difficult for computers to play well. * Martian Chess: played with Icehouse pieces ==Chess-related national games== These games have developed independently from chess, from origins that may well reach back to some common proto-chess game. Nonetheless, they are potentially definable as chess variants (with some possible difficulties). The popularity of these chess variants may be limited to their respective places of origin (as is largely the case for ''shogi''), or worldwide, as is the case for ''xiangqi'' which is played by overseas Chinese everywhere. These games have their own institutions and traditions. *Chaturanga - an ancient Indian game, presumed to be the origins of chess and other national chess-like variants *Shatranj - an ancient Persian game, derived from Chaturanga *Tamerlane Chess - a significantly expanded variation of shatranj *Shogi - Japan (see also shogi variants) *Xiangqi - China *Korean chess - Korea *Makruk - Thailand *Sittuyin - Burma *Tafl - Scandinavia ==Chess variants software== Aside from the Zillions of games scriptable search engine, some program authors have created stand-alone applications that are capable of playing one or more variants. These "dedicated" programs tend to be much stronger than their Zillions counterparts. * ChessV - supports around 30 chess variants, including such popular variants as Grand chess, Shatranj, Three Checks Chess, Baroque chess. * [http://www.gothicchess.org/gv_release.html Gothic Vortex] - the winner of Gothic Chess Computer Championship 2004 * [http://sunsetter.sourceforge.net/ Sunsetter] - Crazyhouse and Bughouse chess engine * [http://sjeng.org/indexold.html Sjeng] - besides Crazyhouse and Bughouse chess supports also some other chess variants. ==Collections== In addition to individual chess variants with popularity, large collections (generally acknowledged to be of respectable quality) have been created by several inventors. * [http://karl.kiwi.gen.nz/swindex3.html Zillions Chess Variants | Karl Scherer] * [http://www.duniho.com/fergus/games/ Games Gallery | Fergus Duniho] * [http://home.att.net/~pbaronson/ Board Game Page | Peter Aronson] * [http://www.di.fc.ul.pt/~jpn/cv/index.htm Chess Variants | João Pedro Neto] * [http://www.symmetryperfect.com/shots/ The Symmetrical Chess Collection | Derek Nalls] ==See also== Fairy chess pieces ==References== * ''The Encyclopedia of Chess Variants'', D.B. Pritchard (1994), ISBN 0952414201. * ''Popular Chess Variants'', D.B. Pritchard (2000), ISBN 0713485787. ==External links== * [http://www.chessvariants.org The Chess Variant Pages] * [http://www.bcvs.ukf.net/gvcg.htm British Chess Variant Society | List of Chess Variants] * [http://www.zillions-of-games.com/games/index-chess.html Zillions Of Games | Chess Variants Index] * [http://history.chess.free.fr/variety.htm Variety of Chess in ancient world] * [http://www.tradgames.org.uk/games/Chess.htm The Chess Family - History and Useful Information] * [http://www.cowplay.com Free Multiplayer Chess Variants] * [http://www.schemingmind.com Play Chess Variants at SchemingMind.com] * [http://www.BrainKing.com Play Chess Variants at BrainKing.com] Chess variants

Chess variant



== Ulitma == What about Ultima? Cant find it on wikipedia at all, but I know it has been mentioned before. Removed maybe? http://www.chessvariants.org/other.dir/ultima.html : It is listed as "Baroque chess" here. User:Andreas Kaufmann 16:51, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC) ==Historical links between national variants and chess== I was not aware of any scholarly debate about the historical link between the national variants of chess (shogi, xiangqi, janggi, etc.) and shatranj (or its predecessor chaturanga). Would someone be so good as to provide me a reference for ''[...] may even come from unrelated origins. Some writers even emphasize that they are not chess.''? Thanks. --user:Fritzlein ''[http://peter.banaschak.bei.t-online.de/schach/chesssilkroadjosten.htm] is a good reference on the subject. The conclusion there is that the theory that it comes from India (which I believe is the traditional story in China, BTW) is entirely plausible, but that there is no concrete evidence for its truth.'' :Thanks for the reference. It puts in perspective how scanty the evidence for common origin is. However, it is one thing to point out a lack of proof for one theory, and quite another to articulate an alternative theory. True, the evidence for a common origin is sparse and inferential, but the evidence for independent (convergent) evolution is AFAIK as non-existent as the theory is implausible. The article you link does not advance any evidence, direct or inferred, against the notion of xiangqi being descended from chaturanga; it merely points out gaps in our knowledge. :By all means, let us be cautious about presenting a tenuous theory in the guise of fact. But if the evidence for common Indian origin (prior written references and extremely similar rules) is so much stronger than the evidence for inpendent invention (absolutely nothing), I don't see why the latter theory should get equal or greater emphasis. :If I am still missing the point, please educate me. Peace, --user:Fritzlein ''I didn't write the original paragraph, I just answered your request for a reference. Personally, I don't think any commentary either way is needed on this page, which is really just linking structure. Someone will doubtless write a separate article on the game family as a whole eventually.'' user:Matthew Woodcraft == Can we call XiangQi and Shogi a "chess variant"?== As some of you probably already know, I don't like calling XiangQi and Shogi variants of chess, because I don't believe they are variants of Chess. AFAIK, a chess variant is a change of chess to another ruleset. XiangQi and Shogi seem so completely different to me than Chess that they should not be called variants (I think Asian players of those games would be offended by this) even though the Chess variants page lists them as variants. What do others think? --user:Chuck Smith ''I think it depends on whether people think of 'Chess' as referring to the FIDE game, or to the family as a whole. My impression is that among English speakers, shogi is usually called 'shogi' and not 'Japanese chess', but xiang-qi is called 'Chinese chess' at least as often as it's called 'xiang-qi'. So maybe there's no way to make everyone happy. More practically, this page could usefully distinguish between games which begin with FIDE chess and make changes from there, and games of the same family where the common ancestor is much further back.'' user:Matthew Woodcraft :Matthew seems to have grasped what I was getting at when I restructured the way that chess is treated on Wikipedia. It was completely intentional to put variants as the last major subdivision of the Chess article. In making place for variants, I had no intention to have it dependent on the history of chess. I can appreciate Chuck's position that Shogi and Xiangqi are not chess, but one cannot excape the simple fact that they are chess-like. If someone were to ask me "What's shogi?" I would be hard put to avoid saying that it's like chess. Maybe I'll just add the words "chess-like" to "National variants". user:Eclecticology I too think Matthew has hit the nail on the head. When I edited the page, I didn't call Shogi and Xiangqi "National variants", I called them "Chess-like games derived from Shatranj". I was reserving the word chess for the game that standardized in Europe by the 1500's, and xiangqi et al are not variants of that chess. I know that whatever convetion we adopt here won't be universal, but that shouldn't prevent us from adopting a convention. Let's respect Chuck's point and reserve "chess variants" for games derived from chess, and call games with a common ancestor to chess "chess relatives", or "chess cousins", or something that emphasizes the actual genetic relationship. Chess is not a shogi variant, and shogi is not a chess variant, they are both (in all probability) chaturanga variants. I understand that's the trend in modern biology too. Don't we group species based on how long ago the split occurred, rather than on how similar species superficially appear to be? Traditionally we would love to group all the other apes together and split ourselves off as being special, but actually chimps, gorillas, and humans are all more closely related to each other than any of us to the orangutan. Something like: common ancestor ______________organutan \ \____________gorilla \ \________chimp \ \____human OK, that was a wild tangent, but the point is that the error of viewing "our" chess as primal is somehow akin to viewing our genes as privileged, and miscategorizing other species as a result. --user:Fritzlein :The tendency in biology is to base differences on the DNA maps of the different species, but I'll refrain from including references in the article to chess playing orangutans. My intent with national variants was not at all to exile some games which did not have the proper breeding. I'll keep trying to find a commonly accepted term. user:Eclecticology ''Additionally, if this page is going to describe variants in the whole family, rememeber that shogi has a great many variants of its own (see shogi), and doubtless the other national forms do as well. I have heard that chu shogi is the most played of any country's 'secondary' chess-family game; certainly it has hundreds of years of history of high-level play.'' I like the idea of building a good taxonomy of games that have evolved from chaturanga. There is a second level of variation around each of these games and this is prone to cause confusion. I agree that treating fantasy variants of FIDE chess in the same way as games like Shogi which have their own history and variation, seems inappropriate and misleading. That said, I don't know what the best term is for the overall family of games is. The confusion comes from the fact that the word ''chess'' in English followed ultimately from ''chaturanga''. But the ''game'' of chess exists today essentially as a single well defined game. Historically there have been several different games that have gone by the same name, so looking back we have to call them something different to distinguish them. Perhaps we could refer to other descendents of chaturanga as ''relatives'' rather than ''variants''? --User:JakeVortex 17:30 Nov 6, 2002 (UTC) The web site chessvariants.com has no difficulty Shogi ''et al.'' as variants. user:Eclecticology I also think it's fine to list the national chess-like games on the Chess variants page, but not to call them variants. Would you list Chess under Shogi variant and Xiangqi variant? Do you consider Chess to be a Shogi variant? --user:Chuck Smith The case with shogi and Chinese chess is less clear-cut, but these games do not derive from modifying the rules of chess, so I would not call them variants of chess. --user:Zundark, Sunday, April 14, 2002 Admittedly, "chaturanga variants" may be a historically more appropriate term than "chess variants". Nonetheless, the term "chess variant" has a long-established history (in old books) of usage to describe games of this reasonably well-defined lineage or type. Note that this is a compound noun with a distinctly different meaning than its single, contained word "chess". After Hans Bodlaender founded "The Chess Variant Pages" (dedicated to "chaturanga variants" ... if you prefer) in the early days of the internet, this term became established worldwide to any extent it was not already. The days of making games of this class known by "shogi variants" or some such had permanently passed. When the Zillions Of Games AI program (powerful, adaptable, creative) was advented in 1998, they adopted the same term. For better or worse, it is now set in the English language- the prevalent language of the internet. There is nothing left to debate. Anyone with a deficient understanding of this matter should NOT be so bold as to try to redefine the language on Wikipedia or anywhere else. In fairness, noone has messed-up this page to date. user:OmegaMan : I disagree that Shogi, Chinese Chess, Korean Chess, Thai Chess, should be called a chess variant, for the plain simple reason that such a label does not respect the culture which developed their own Chess-like games completely independent of the "Mad queen chess" (modern western Chess) developed in Europe in the 15th century. While, from the perspective of a western person, Shogi and Chinese Chess are indeed variants, there needs to be a term which does not imply that these regional versions of Chess are somehow derived from "mad queen Chess". And, yes, there are Shogi Variants (Tori Shogi, Chu Shogi, etc.) which were developed as modifications of Shogi instead of Chess, and are generally considered "Shogi Variants" instead of "Chess Variants". User:Samboy 21:45, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC) "Chess variants" is the only currently existing and established term available for universally referring to any and all board games of this defined class. Your lingering dissatisfaction with it as a matter of historical and cultural origins is understandable yet would not "shogi variants" be just as unfair to Westerners? Perhaps, the prevalence of the term "chess variants" arose because chess-playing Westerners (esp. in Europe and North America) were more avid about chess variants than Easterners. Obviously, "shogi variants" is left with a more restrictive meaning than "chess variants" but this did not evolve within our language as a result of anyone trying to be unfair to anyone. A term was needed and so, a gap was filled albeit awkwardly. user:OmegaMan Well, I feel it is clear that the ''chess variant'' terminology here has been imposed by self-appointed 'experts'. I satisfy my conscience by saying that it is used for the game stripped of all its culture and associations. On the other hand, why 'variant'? These games are all ''chess games'', in a much less offensive sense. User:Charles Matthews 19:04, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC) I think "chess cousins" might be a better description. Common, though not immediate, ancestor. User:JakeVortex 18:16, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC) : Yes, I have always preferred lesser-used yet known terms such as "chess-related games" or "chess games". Notwithstanding, it is correct that "chess variants", which carries an implication of insignificance, has become the standard term. : The pioneers of the field became the first experts by default and this process has not yet run its course due to great advances in chess variant software (AI) and computer hardware recently made, the ramifications of which are still being explored. : I consider this situation legitimate although I think it should be strongly noted that such "experts of chess variants" generally cannot be compared at a fraction of the rigor and training required to become experts in long-established sciences (for instance). : Unfortunately, formal combinatorial game theory just does not address how to create chess variants of the highest quality since mathematics concerns measurement instead of value judgments. So, this work is being undertaken informally and mostly without applying (or even attempting to correctly apply) quality guidelines by a mixture of people who strangely regard themselves as qualified and/or creative. In my studied assessment, a few are genii, a few are idiots and most are stuck (despite their efforts) with being merely average. : User:BadSanta ==Different way to play chess is not a "chess variant"== I removed the following from Chess variant because they are not chess variants, but simply different ways to play Chess. ...and what is situs? --user:Chuck Smith ''Variants by situs *Postal chess *Chess on the internet'' :I'll put this back; if Chuck objects to the title because it has a word he doesn't understand, let him begin by suggesting an alternative title. Situs means place; it has meanings in law and medicine. I simply adapted it to variants that depend on where the players are. It also seems that the word variant needs explaining: The listed items are variants because they are different ways to play chess. user:Eclecticology :Seems like these are variations of ''method'' of play rather than rules of play. Perhaps blitz chess and other methods of time control (of which postal chess can be seen as an extreme form of time control, which allows for the remoteness of participants). --User:JakeVortex 17:30 Nov 6, 2002 (UTC) Playing chess on the Internet and playing postal chess are really NOT chess variants! If anything, they belong on the main chess article. They are simply different ways of playing chess. The game itself is not changed, so they don't belong here. Also, situs wasn't in my Franklin Electronic Dictionary, so this certainly shouldn't be the appropriate term... Alternate title: "Ways to play chess" --user:Chuck Smith *I went to the online dictionary mentioned by Chuck. Franklin publishes the online Merriam-Webster Dictionary, and the word "situs" is certainly there in the free collegiate edition. My own reference was to ''The New Oxford Dictionary of English''. It is noteworthy to mention ''in passim'' that "siti" would not be a correct plural since the Latin root is a fourth declension noun. *Variant means, according to the Oxford, "a form or version of something that differs in some respect from other forms of the same thing or from a standard". Since postal chess requires an alteration of the rules of chess (notably rules 1.1, 4.1 and 12.2) it is a variant. user:Eclecticology **Postal chess, blitz chess, etc. are not Chess Variants in the commonly use of the term; they are just different ways of playing FIDE/Western Chess. User:Samboy 22:14, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC) First of all, I said Electronic Dictionary, not Online Dictionary. If a word isn't in there, it's not likely to be in common use (from what I can tell it's a specialized word for law and medicine). Which ruleset are you talking about? I used to be a certified USCF tournament director and I pulled out my USCF Official Rules of Chess handbook, but those rules aren't laid out in that fashion. I also looked at FIDE's website, but cannot find the reference to correspondence chess that you mention. Also, it sounds like the "altered rules" are rules to tournament play, not changes to the basic game. Correspondence chess and playing on the Internet are different ways to play Chess, not different games. I hope someone else will get in this discussion, because between the two of us, we're not really getting anywhere... --user:Chuck Smith I'm with Chuck on both these points. All chess variants can be played postally or via the Internet or face-to-face (and even in other ways). These are different ways to play the variants - they are not themselves variants. --user:Zundark, Sunday, April 14, 2002 ==Chess variants, which don't belong to Wikipedia== I (User:Camembert) have removed the following: * OliverYue Chess: Starting with an empty board, players alternate either with a move or a parachute drop of a piece on one's own half of the board. Pieces can cross this river (a4-5 to h4-5) only when one's own king is on the board. Pawns cannot parachute onto one's own first rank. Each piece gets one parachute opportunity, when captured it is out of the game. No castling or en passant, however all other rules re e.g. check apply as in normal chess. I can't find any reference to this variant on the web or in the books I have, and I suspect it hasn't been recorded elsewhere. We can't really list any old variant that people happen to think up (in effect, it's a kind of original research, one of the things that Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not). If anybody can provide a respectable source independent of the Wikipedia and of the inventor detailing this variant, then, of course, it'll be fine to go back in the article. (Incidentally, this does bear some resemblance to Unachess, detailed at [http://www.chessvariants.com/diffsetup.dir/unachess.html] on chessvariants.com) --User:Camembert I removed the following on the same reason as Camembert (see above) - Wikipedia is not research: * Geodesic Chess: Played on hex-based grids of various sizes in the shape of a sphere or icosahedron. User:Andreas Kaufmann The following is removed, because it actually defines a family of chess variant, e.g. Marseliese Chess and not concrete chess variant. So, I think it is misplaced in the list of variants. * Double and Triple Move Chess: each player moves twice or thrice per turn. User:Andreas Kaufmann ---- What is the policy for tolerating "dead-end" variants on the list of fantasy variants (i.e., listed variants without any articles at all)? Don't they just frustrate readers? --User:JudgeDredd I think we don't have any policy here, the usual Wikipedia policies apply. We may still want to list chess variants without articles here, because short description is already enough to describe the game, e.g. as for "King's Corner Chess". Concerning "Extinction Chess", I think it deserves a special article, as the game is quite popular. There is no bad with making it "dead-link". The purpose of this is actually to animate somebody to create an article about it. User:Andreas Kaufmann ==Bastardo?== Is ''"Bastardo"'' a notable variant? I've found a couple of internet links to it. If it is, could someone add the appropriate link to our disambig at Bastardo. Thanks. - User:John Fader ==I have removed some POV material placed here by an IP== I have removed some POV material placed here by an IP. Here is the information I removed, which was inteposed among other info:
according to the most recent research this [the fact that India is where Chess came from]is not likely so. (See origins of chess and Xiangqi.)

[...]

Xiangqi - of ancient China, which the most modern research to date (see http://www.yutopian.com/chinesechess/history.html ) surprisingly reveals to have been played centuries before Chaturanga (i.e. by Meng Changjun, some time between 770 and 975 years prior to Chaturanga's popularly recognized date of inception)! See http://www.yutopian.com/chinesechess/stories/meng.html for supporting information.

Basically, this stuff belongs in origins of chess, as a minority viewpoint, and not here. User:Samboy 18:56, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC) == Does Martian Chess belong here? == Does Martian Chess really belong here? I don't think it's a chess variant. Of course "chess" is part of the name, but the pieces, board, and rules are all different so that I think it's just an unrelated strategy board game. User:Quale 07:49, 27 May 2005 (UTC) : Well, "chess" in the name suggests that at least the game inventor considered it as a chess variant. But if you define chess variant as "a game derived from or related to chess", then it is certainly not a chess variant. User:Andreas Kaufmann 20:21, 31 May 2005 (UTC) :: I rarely disagree with User:Andreas Kaufmann since he is very knowledgeable in this area but I do in the case of Martian Chess (and Tafl) which includes pieces that move identically to queens. :: The foundation of this disagreement (which I am already familiar with) seems to be semantic and word-definition related. Where do experts draw the lines between: :: A. board games (in general) and chess variants :: B. a broad, universal definition of chess variants and a restrictive, evidently-proper definition of chess variants :: Since almost any board game can be implemented using the Zillions Of Games program, it is not a suitable acid test for a chess variant (even by a broad, universal definition). Generally, I prefer to use the broad, universal definition since not doing so leaves no term available to classify board games which are chess-like in at least one respect. Of course, one can disagree that there is a need to classify most board games in the first place and criticize such attempts as reductionistic and inaccurate. --User:BadSanta == Tafl: a Scandinavian chess variant == As XiangQi and Shogi were discussed and it was finally decided that they should be called "chess variants", I think that Tafl, which was a national game played by the Vikings, must also enter into the same category. Thus, I took the freedom to add it to the list. However, there is a possibility for a new debate concerning Tafl since the rules have been partly lost and it is not played anymore as a national game. --User:Philipum 07:11, 31 May 2005 (UTC) : I believe Tafl is a kind of checkers variant, not a chess variant. On contrary, XiangQi, Shogi and chess have a lot in common and most likely share a common ancestor, probably Chaturanga. User:Andreas Kaufmann 07:31, 31 May 2005 (UTC) Unlike checkers, the Tafl game contains a King and there are the fundamental chess features of check and checkmate. --User:Philipum 07:57, 31 May 2005 (UTC) : The only similarity Tafl has to checkers is that every piece is the same. In fact, every piece in checkers is of limited range (1 space diagonal forward) while every piece in Tafl is of unlimited range (orthogonal- ala a rook) as is common to many chess variants. : The inventor of the Symmetrical Chess Collection once told me that Tafl was an inspiration to him when he first realized it was indeed possible to invent stable yet fast-paced chess variants entirely without using limited-range buffer pieces. --User:BadSanta


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