''Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons'', often referred to in shorthand as simply ''Captain Scarlet'', is a science fiction television series produced by the Century 21 Television company of Sylvia and Gerry Anderson and first shown in Britain (originally on ATV Midlands, but later the whole of the UK) between September 1967 and April 1968. It used puppetry (''Supermarionation'') and scale model special effects. The series was one of several of imaginative and popular science-fiction TV adventure series the Andersons produced in the 1960s, beginning with ''Supercar (television)'' and followed by ''Fireball XL5'', ''Stingray (TV show)'', ''Thunderbirds (TV series)'', ''Captain Scarlet'', ''Joe 90'', and the little-seen ''The Secret Service (Supermarionation)''. ''Scarlet'' was the first series made after the international success of ''Thunderbirds'' in 1964-66, which included two series of the TV show and two feature films. ==The story== The basic premise, played out over 32 episodes, was that a special International group, Spectrum, defends the Earth from the insidious plans of the alien Mysterons. On a mission to Mars (planet) in 2068, a Mysteron 'city' was destroyed by Captain Black (Captain Scarlet), leading the Mysterons to declare a "War of Nerves" on Earth. The Mysterons have the ability to replicate and then control any person they kill or anything they destroy, through their power of retro-metabolism. They use this power to conduct a war of terror against Earth—primarily aimed at the world leaders, major cities, industrial and defence establishments, and, of course, "Spectrum" and its airborne Cloudbase headquarters. The Mysterons are never seen; their presence is indicated by two circles of light tracking across the scene. Their actions on Earth are always through their replicated intermediaries—often Captain Black, who the Mysterons killed and then revived as their first agent. Captain Scarlet, already one of Spectrum's top agents, becomes their secret weapon after the events of the first episode, ''The Mysterons''. In that episode, Scarlet (whose real name is Paul Metcalfe) is one of two Spectrum agents killed by the Mysterons and then replaced with a duplicate under their control; for reasons never explained in or out of the series, however, when the duplicate falls 800 feet from a tower the personality of Paul Metcalfe reasserts itself in the duplicate, who is immune thereafter to Mysteron control. Not only that, but Scarlet's new body has two new powers: it allows him to sense the presence of other Mysteron duplicates nearby, and if he should be injured or even killed, retro-metabolism will re-create him as good as before. ('Self-repairing' might be a more accurate way to describe this than the 'indestructible' that the series uses, since it is established that Scarlet feels all the pain associated with any injuries he suffers.) For obvious reasons, this advantage is kept secret outside Spectrum, and even Captain Blue is often heard saying "But Captain, you'll be killed!" (Later in the series, the Mysteron duplicates are discovered to be vulnerable to high-voltage electricity, meaning that the same could permanently destroy Scarlet.) ==Characters== Spectrum personnel have military ranks and colour based code names (hence Captain Scarlet), headed by Colonel White. Other characters include Captains Blue, Ochre, Grey, and Magenta, Lieutenant Green, and the five female fighter pilots, who have a different collective codename—the Angels—and are individually Destiny, Symphony, Melody, Rhapsody, and Harmony. * Captain Scarlet - Real name Paul Metcalfe * Captain Blue - Real name Adam Svenson * Colonel White - Real name Charles Grey * Lieutenant Green - Real name Seymour Griffiths * Doctor Fawn - Real name Edward Wilkie * Captain Black (Captain Scarlet) - Real name Conrad Turner * Captain Ochre - Real name Richard Fraser * Captain Magenta - Real name Patrick Donaghue * Captain Grey - Real name Bradley Holden * Captain Brown - Real name * Captain Indigo - Real name * Captain Yellow - Real name * Destiny Angel - Real name Juliette Pontoin * Symphony Angel - Rean name Karen Wainwright * Melody Angel - Real name Magnolia Jones * Rhapsody Angel - Real name Dianne Simms * Harmony Angel - Real name Chan Kwan Note: with the exception of Captain Scarlet and Captain Blue, none of the above real names were actually mentioned on screen. They originate from various licensed spin-off publications. As such, it is debatable whether these names are actually canon (fiction). ==Puppets== Whether the puppets of the various Anderson series were modelled on real people, and who those real people were, is the subject of some question. Gerry and Sylvia Anderson have claimed that they asked the puppet designers to give the puppets rough resemblances to specific celebrities of the day. Some of the puppets, however, appear to be quite clearly modelled instead on the actors who provided their voices; chief puppet artist Mary Turner admitted that ''Thunderbirds''' Lady Penelope was modelled after Sylvia, a relevation the latter claimed came as a surprise. On ''Captain Scarlet'', Captain Blue and Colonel White were said to particularly resemble their voice actors, Ed Bishop and Donald Gray respectively. (Ironically, although many fans believe the resemblance of Captain Blue and Ed Bishop to be particularly strong, based on Ed Bishop's appearance in Anderson's live-action series ''UFO (TV series)'', the blonde hair that Bishop's ''UFO'' character Straker shares with Captain Blue is Bishop's brunette hair bleached blonde in the first episode, and a wig in subsequent episodes of the series.) The Captain Scarlet character has been said at various times to have been modelled on Cary Grant, Roger Moore, and on Scarlet's voice actor Francis Matthews; while no definite answer appears to be forthcoming, Matthews says that Gerry Anderson went to great lengths to get him to sign on to the production because of his skilled Cary Grant impression.
As in the Andersons' previous puppet series, the characters' eyes and mouths were operated electronically, but in Captain Scarlet the control mechanism was placed in the puppets' chests rather than their heads. This meant that the puppets no longer needed oversized heads to accommodate the mechanisms and could be built with normal proportions for the first time. In order to enhance the sense of realism further, the puppets were never seen walking, as it was impossible to make their legs move realistically. For this reason characters are often seen standing on moving walkways or even sitting at moving desks, and there are of course any number of futuristic land, sea, air, and space vehicles for them to ride in, such as the Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle (SPV), the bright-red Spectrum Patrol Car (also referred to as the ''Spectrum Saloon'', the Spectrum Passenger Jet (SPJ), and the streamlined Angel Interceptor aircraft, armed with missile guns, all of them courtesy of special effects director Derek Meddings and his miniatures unit.
SPVs were located around the world, hidden in public or commercial buildings. Upon meeting the staff of a building, a Spectrum agent would show his identification and the SPV would either be moved out for use, or the camouflage which had concealed it (a shack, or a goods container) would collapse to reveal it. ==Later productions== In 1980, Incorporated Television Company (ITC), which produced many Anderson projects, combined several episodes of the original show to release a TV movie version titled ''Captain Scarlet vs. the Mysterons''. This was later used for the second episode of KTMA version of Mystery Science Theater 3000, shown on Thanksgiving Day (24 November) 1988 in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA, and retitled as ''Revenge of the Mysterons from Mars''. A new version of the series, entitled Gerry Anderson's New Captain Scarlet, began broadcast on ITV on 12 February 2005. The series, produced by Anderson and backed by Sony Pictures Television, uses computer-generated imagery (CGI) instead of puppetry, although as a nod to Supermarionation, the show is promoted as being produced in "Hypermarionation". ==Original novels== Several novels based upon the series were published in the late 1960s: * ''Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons'', John Theydon (pseudonym for John W. Jennison), 1967 * ''Captain Scarlet and the Silent Saboteur'', Theydon, 1967 * ''The Angels and the Creeping Enemy'', Theydon, 1968 (not published under the ''Captain Scarlet'' series title) In 1993, Corgi Books published four episode novelizations for young readers based upon the episodes "The Mysterons", "Noose of Ice", "Lunarville 7", and "The Launching". ==Trivia== The mid-1980s musical duo Scarlett & Black took their name from the characters of Captain Scarlet and Captain Black. The Zero-X mission seen and referred to in the pilot episode ("The Mysterons") involved the same spacecraft seen in the feature film "Thunderbirds Are Go". The oft-repeated expression "S.I.G." in the series stands for "Spectrum is Green"; i.e., the situation is good. The corresponding "S.I.R." ("Spectrum is Red"), meaning the situation is bad, is heard less often. These catch phrases are a common Anderson-ism, like the ''Thunderbirds''' "F.A.B." ==External links== *[http://www.fanderson.org.uk/fanderson.html FANDERSON] The official Gerry Anderson appreciation society site. *[http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/anderson/scarlet/ Captain Scarlet] at BBCi *[http://www.spectrum-headquarters.com/ Spectrum Headquarters], a fan site *[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059973/combined IMDb: "Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons"] (original show) *[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0352228/combined IMDb: "Captain Scarlet vs. the Mysterons"] (1980 TV movie) *[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408377/combined IMDb: "Captain Scarlet"] (2005 TV series) *[http://www.captainscarlet.com/ Captainscarlet.com], official website of the new CGI TV series. Captain Scarlet Science fiction television series ITV television programmes British television programmes
Oh, thank you all, thank you! I must have seen reruns of this at some point in my childhood travels, but no one in New York, when I spent my early teens, knew what I was talking about. Finally, I met one person who knew of 'Thunderbirds' (she was English) but even she went blank when I mentioned 'Captain Scarlett'. Vindication at last! It's been bothering me for almost twenty years! User:Quill 06:33, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC) == Length of the fall == Capt. Scarlet falls '250 m'? Metres? Is that what was said in the original? User:Quill 00:25, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC) :I have the boxed set; I can re-watch and check if it is. -- User:Antaeus Feldspar ::Thanks--when you get around to it. The only reason I am asking is because I would have thought that the series predated the use of the metric system. I could be way off base, here, though. User:Quill 23:45, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::You're correct; the actual figure mentioned in the episode is 800 feet. That's pretty close to 250 meters (more like 243.2) but, well, there really doesn't seem to be a good reason to artificially convert it to a different system, does there? I fixed it in the article. User:Antaeus Feldspar 01:25, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC) Someone 'fixed' the figure of 800 feet to 1800 feet. If they had checked this talk page beforehand, they would have realized that the figure of 800 feet came from going to the episode itself and re-watching it. In the episode "The Mysterons" as contained in the ''Captain Scarlet'' boxed set, at 26 minutes and 19 seconds into the episode, Commander White states the figure as 800 feet -- I went back and rewatched it a second, and then a third time, to be sure I was hearing correctly. If the person who changed it in the article to 1800 has some reason for citing that figure instead, they are asked to please cite it. User:Antaeus Feldspar 23:12, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) == Renegade Mysteron theory == The speculation that Captain Scarlet is actually a renegade Mysteron is one I have never heard or read before anywhere. Is there any support for this besides what's in the article; i.e., does it represent public knowledge about the series or a private theory? -- User:Antaeus Feldspar :Good point; I can't answer it. User:Quill 23:45, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::Technically, he is a renegade because after being taken over by the Mysterons he does do their bidding for a time until he falls off the car park. But I have no recollection of him ever being referred to as a renegade in the series itself. User:23skidoo 23:14, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::It seems obvious that he's a ''renegade''; I'd assumed the objection was to the suggestion that he's a ''Mysteron''. --User:Paul A 04:53, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::::He's definitely a Mysteron because the original Capt. Scarlet's body is disposed of by the duplicate who then goes on to become the hero of the piece. User:23skidoo 12:14, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::::Well, User:Timrollpickering was the one who [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Captain_Scarlet&diff=4505314&oldid=3491275 added the theory] of Scarlet being a Mysteron deserter. We had User talk:Timrollpickering#Mysteron deserter? about it, but I'll sum it up as follows: :::::If we are careful to distinguish between "Mysteron" (one of the actual Martians) and "Mysteron duplicate" (a duplicate of some destroyed/killed object or person, created by the Mysterons), then the series establishes clearly that Scarlet's new body is that of a Mysteron duplicate. That part isn't a possibility, it's stated outright. :::::As for the personality that occupies that body by the end of the first episode and for all episodes thereafter, there are three possibilities: A) it's the returned personality of Paul Metcalfe (Captain Scarlet), B) it's the personality of the Mysteron duplicate, pretending to be Paul Metcalfe, C) it's the personality of one of the Mysterons themselves, pretending to be Paul Metcalfe. B and C are interesting theories but there's no support at all for them in the series; Scarlet never acts in a way that would indicate he has any divided loyalties or any knowledge of the Mysterons save what he and SPECTRUM have observed. (The phrase "Mysteron deserter" or "Mysteron renegade" tends to imply B or C; after all, if a soldier for Lessfillingland was brainwashed to act as an agent of Tastesgreatlevania, and then managed to throw off the brainwashing, you wouldn't say they were a Tastesgreatlevanian deserter or renegade.) :::::The section in question was therefore written to clarify that Scarlet's new body ''is'' that of a Mysteron duplicate but that his personality (according to all indications in the series) is that of Paul Metcalfe a.k.a. Captain Scarlet. Whether that makes him ''really'' Captain Scarlet, I would suggest is a philosophical question ''way'' out of our league! =) -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 17:52, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) == Kill or destroy == The recent "corrections" to the statement that the Mysterons must kill or destroy something to copy it left the statement less correct than it had been. There is not anything that the Mysterons are ever shown copying without first killing or destroying it. In "Treble Cross", the episode that MikeVx cites as proof that the Mysterons don't need to destroy a thing to copy it -- the test pilot whom they copy ''has been killed''. The fact that he is later resuscitated is not an exception to the rule: they must kill or destroy anything that they wish to copy, even if the opening narration does oversimplify it to "first, they must destroy". The speculation that destruction is only a matter of Mysteron policy is just that, speculation. I feel we should restore the original description, since it was not in error and did not need to be "updated". -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 03:12, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC) :I've regarded the issue as an inconsistency since ''Treble Cross'', and reached a conclusion that you obviously don't agree with. If it is really too far out there, I'm sure that someone will change things back. At least you offered a civil (albeit in my opinion, incorrect) counterpoint. I expected to get some nasty reactions to challenging the commonly-held view. I don't see a resucitatible case as being really dead. ([http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Princess_Bride "There's a big difference between mostly dead, and all dead."]) It is true that the issue of Mysteron policy is speculation, but it is the only real explanation possible given my position that destruction is not a necessary part of the process. Now as far as I've seen in the new series, they have only duplicated people in clothing on-screen. I have seen two cases of death followed by on-the-spot fabrication of the copy, so there is no inconsistency so far. I'm not going to get into an edit war, if the entry is changed I'll just leave it be. I will, however, continue to regard it as an error. -- User:MikeVx 01:42, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::''Treble Cross'' is certainly a challenging episode to try and fit into the canon, but it stretches definitions, rather than violating the rules that have been explicitly established. ''You'' might not see a reversible death as fulfilling the clause that "they must kill/destroy before they can copy", but since our only choices are: 1) Gerry and company ''did'' see a death followed by a resuscitation as one that fulfilled the clause, or 2) Gerry and company stated flat out in the opening narration of the series a "rule" that they never intended to be a rule and only adhered to in every single other instance of Mysteron copying in the series just ... ''because''... well, I think we need to be realistic and say that our belief that the Mysterons should need to kill someone "all dead" before being able to copy them, if they have any such need at all, is not one that the creators of the canon shared. ::As far as the new series, I think it would be a mistake to try and apply knowledge from the new series to the old one, since they are distinctly different on some very basic points. There is no way to merge the old series and the new series to make one unified canon so why try to determine principles of the old canon by referring to the new one? -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 02:06, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::: Just to toss in my 2 cents, the word "destroy" is often used in the same context as "kill". (i.e. "We will destroy the terrorists", etc.). So if it's a matter of semantics I think the term destroy could mean both "kill" and "physically destroy" in the context of this series, especially since there are several examples of inanimate objects being wrecked and recreated (I recall a plane and a car). It's very possible that Treble Cross is simply a case of continuity violation. Anderson's shows are hardly air-tight in that regard (see ''UFO'', ''Space: 1999'', etc.). In some respects the very existence of Capt. Scarlet himself violates the rules set out in the show as, to my knowledge, no one else was shown retaining memories and the like -- unless there was an episode I missed. User:23skidoo 03:46, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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Captain Scarlet
''Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons'', often referred to in shorthand as simply ''Captain Scarlet'', is a science fiction television series produced by the Century 21 Television company of Sylvia and Gerry Anderson and first shown in Britain (originally on ATV Midlands, but later the whole of the UK) between September 1967 and April 1968. It used puppetry (''Supermarionation'') and scale model special effects. The series was one of several of imaginative and popular science-fiction TV adventure series the Andersons produced in the 1960s, beginning with ''Supercar (television)'' and followed by ''Fireball XL5'', ''Stingray (TV show)'', ''Thunderbirds (TV series)'', ''Captain Scarlet'', ''Joe 90'', and the little-seen ''The Secret Service (Supermarionation)''. ''Scarlet'' was the first series made after the international success of ''Thunderbirds'' in 1964-66, which included two series of the TV show and two feature films. ==The story== The basic premise, played out over 32 episodes, was that a special International group, Spectrum, defends the Earth from the insidious plans of the alien Mysterons. On a mission to Mars (planet) in 2068, a Mysteron 'city' was destroyed by Captain Black (Captain Scarlet), leading the Mysterons to declare a "War of Nerves" on Earth. The Mysterons have the ability to replicate and then control any person they kill or anything they destroy, through their power of retro-metabolism. They use this power to conduct a war of terror against Earth—primarily aimed at the world leaders, major cities, industrial and defence establishments, and, of course, "Spectrum" and its airborne Cloudbase headquarters. The Mysterons are never seen; their presence is indicated by two circles of light tracking across the scene. Their actions on Earth are always through their replicated intermediaries—often Captain Black, who the Mysterons killed and then revived as their first agent. Captain Scarlet, already one of Spectrum's top agents, becomes their secret weapon after the events of the first episode, ''The Mysterons''. In that episode, Scarlet (whose real name is Paul Metcalfe) is one of two Spectrum agents killed by the Mysterons and then replaced with a duplicate under their control; for reasons never explained in or out of the series, however, when the duplicate falls 800 feet from a tower the personality of Paul Metcalfe reasserts itself in the duplicate, who is immune thereafter to Mysteron control. Not only that, but Scarlet's new body has two new powers: it allows him to sense the presence of other Mysteron duplicates nearby, and if he should be injured or even killed, retro-metabolism will re-create him as good as before. ('Self-repairing' might be a more accurate way to describe this than the 'indestructible' that the series uses, since it is established that Scarlet feels all the pain associated with any injuries he suffers.) For obvious reasons, this advantage is kept secret outside Spectrum, and even Captain Blue is often heard saying "But Captain, you'll be killed!" (Later in the series, the Mysteron duplicates are discovered to be vulnerable to high-voltage electricity, meaning that the same could permanently destroy Scarlet.) ==Characters== Spectrum personnel have military ranks and colour based code names (hence Captain Scarlet), headed by Colonel White. Other characters include Captains Blue, Ochre, Grey, and Magenta, Lieutenant Green, and the five female fighter pilots, who have a different collective codename—the Angels—and are individually Destiny, Symphony, Melody, Rhapsody, and Harmony. * Captain Scarlet - Real name Paul Metcalfe * Captain Blue - Real name Adam Svenson * Colonel White - Real name Charles Grey * Lieutenant Green - Real name Seymour Griffiths * Doctor Fawn - Real name Edward Wilkie * Captain Black (Captain Scarlet) - Real name Conrad Turner * Captain Ochre - Real name Richard Fraser * Captain Magenta - Real name Patrick Donaghue * Captain Grey - Real name Bradley Holden * Captain Brown - Real name * Captain Indigo - Real name * Captain Yellow - Real name * Destiny Angel - Real name Juliette Pontoin * Symphony Angel - Rean name Karen Wainwright * Melody Angel - Real name Magnolia Jones * Rhapsody Angel - Real name Dianne Simms * Harmony Angel - Real name Chan Kwan Note: with the exception of Captain Scarlet and Captain Blue, none of the above real names were actually mentioned on screen. They originate from various licensed spin-off publications. As such, it is debatable whether these names are actually canon (fiction). ==Puppets== Whether the puppets of the various Anderson series were modelled on real people, and who those real people were, is the subject of some question. Gerry and Sylvia Anderson have claimed that they asked the puppet designers to give the puppets rough resemblances to specific celebrities of the day. Some of the puppets, however, appear to be quite clearly modelled instead on the actors who provided their voices; chief puppet artist Mary Turner admitted that ''Thunderbirds''
SPVs were located around the world, hidden in public or commercial buildings. Upon meeting the staff of a building, a Spectrum agent would show his identification and the SPV would either be moved out for use, or the camouflage which had concealed it (a shack, or a goods container) would collapse to reveal it. ==Later productions== In 1980, Incorporated Television Company (ITC), which produced many Anderson projects, combined several episodes of the original show to release a TV movie version titled ''Captain Scarlet vs. the Mysterons''. This was later used for the second episode of KTMA version of Mystery Science Theater 3000, shown on Thanksgiving Day (24 November) 1988 in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA, and retitled as ''Revenge of the Mysterons from Mars''. A new version of the series, entitled Gerry Anderson's New Captain Scarlet, began broadcast on ITV on 12 February 2005. The series, produced by Anderson and backed by Sony Pictures Television, uses computer-generated imagery (CGI) instead of puppetry, although as a nod to Supermarionation, the show is promoted as being produced in "Hypermarionation". ==Original novels== Several novels based upon the series were published in the late 1960s: * ''Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons'', John Theydon (pseudonym for John W. Jennison), 1967 * ''Captain Scarlet and the Silent Saboteur'', Theydon, 1967 * ''The Angels and the Creeping Enemy'', Theydon, 1968 (not published under the ''Captain Scarlet'' series title) In 1993, Corgi Books published four episode novelizations for young readers based upon the episodes "The Mysterons", "Noose of Ice", "Lunarville 7", and "The Launching". ==Trivia== The mid-1980s musical duo Scarlett & Black took their name from the characters of Captain Scarlet and Captain Black. The Zero-X mission seen and referred to in the pilot episode ("The Mysterons") involved the same spacecraft seen in the feature film "Thunderbirds Are Go". The oft-repeated expression "S.I.G." in the series stands for "Spectrum is Green"; i.e., the situation is good. The corresponding "S.I.R." ("Spectrum is Red"), meaning the situation is bad, is heard less often. These catch phrases are a common Anderson-ism, like the ''Thunderbirds''' "F.A.B." ==External links== *[http://www.fanderson.org.uk/fanderson.html FANDERSON] The official Gerry Anderson appreciation society site. *[http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/anderson/scarlet/ Captain Scarlet] at BBCi *[http://www.spectrum-headquarters.com/ Spectrum Headquarters], a fan site *[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059973/combined IMDb: "Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons"] (original show) *[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0352228/combined IMDb: "Captain Scarlet vs. the Mysterons"] (1980 TV movie) *[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408377/combined IMDb: "Captain Scarlet"] (2005 TV series) *[http://www.captainscarlet.com/ Captainscarlet.com], official website of the new CGI TV series. Captain Scarlet Science fiction television series ITV television programmes British television programmes
Captain Scarlet
Oh, thank you all, thank you! I must have seen reruns of this at some point in my childhood travels, but no one in New York, when I spent my early teens, knew what I was talking about. Finally, I met one person who knew of 'Thunderbirds' (she was English) but even she went blank when I mentioned 'Captain Scarlett'. Vindication at last! It's been bothering me for almost twenty years! User:Quill 06:33, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC) == Length of the fall == Capt. Scarlet falls '250 m'? Metres? Is that what was said in the original? User:Quill 00:25, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC) :I have the boxed set; I can re-watch and check if it is. -- User:Antaeus Feldspar ::Thanks--when you get around to it. The only reason I am asking is because I would have thought that the series predated the use of the metric system. I could be way off base, here, though. User:Quill 23:45, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC) :::You're correct; the actual figure mentioned in the episode is 800 feet. That's pretty close to 250 meters (more like 243.2) but, well, there really doesn't seem to be a good reason to artificially convert it to a different system, does there? I fixed it in the article. User:Antaeus Feldspar 01:25, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC) Someone 'fixed' the figure of 800 feet to 1800 feet. If they had checked this talk page beforehand, they would have realized that the figure of 800 feet came from going to the episode itself and re-watching it. In the episode "The Mysterons" as contained in the ''Captain Scarlet'' boxed set, at 26 minutes and 19 seconds into the episode, Commander White states the figure as 800 feet -- I went back and rewatched it a second, and then a third time, to be sure I was hearing correctly. If the person who changed it in the article to 1800 has some reason for citing that figure instead, they are asked to please cite it. User:Antaeus Feldspar 23:12, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) == Renegade Mysteron theory == The speculation that Captain Scarlet is actually a renegade Mysteron is one I have never heard or read before anywhere. Is there any support for this besides what's in the article; i.e., does it represent public knowledge about the series or a private theory? -- User:Antaeus Feldspar :Good point; I can't answer it. User:Quill 23:45, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC) ::Technically, he is a renegade because after being taken over by the Mysterons he does do their bidding for a time until he falls off the car park. But I have no recollection of him ever being referred to as a renegade in the series itself. User:23skidoo 23:14, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::It seems obvious that he's a ''renegade''; I'd assumed the objection was to the suggestion that he's a ''Mysteron''. --User:Paul A 04:53, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) ::::He's definitely a Mysteron because the original Capt. Scarlet's body is disposed of by the duplicate who then goes on to become the hero of the piece. User:23skidoo 12:14, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) :::::Well, User:Timrollpickering was the one who [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Captain_Scarlet&diff=4505314&oldid=3491275 added the theory] of Scarlet being a Mysteron deserter. We had User talk:Timrollpickering#Mysteron deserter? about it, but I'll sum it up as follows: :::::If we are careful to distinguish between "Mysteron" (one of the actual Martians) and "Mysteron duplicate" (a duplicate of some destroyed/killed object or person, created by the Mysterons), then the series establishes clearly that Scarlet's new body is that of a Mysteron duplicate. That part isn't a possibility, it's stated outright. :::::As for the personality that occupies that body by the end of the first episode and for all episodes thereafter, there are three possibilities: A) it's the returned personality of Paul Metcalfe (Captain Scarlet), B) it's the personality of the Mysteron duplicate, pretending to be Paul Metcalfe, C) it's the personality of one of the Mysterons themselves, pretending to be Paul Metcalfe. B and C are interesting theories but there's no support at all for them in the series; Scarlet never acts in a way that would indicate he has any divided loyalties or any knowledge of the Mysterons save what he and SPECTRUM have observed. (The phrase "Mysteron deserter" or "Mysteron renegade" tends to imply B or C; after all, if a soldier for Lessfillingland was brainwashed to act as an agent of Tastesgreatlevania, and then managed to throw off the brainwashing, you wouldn't say they were a Tastesgreatlevanian deserter or renegade.) :::::The section in question was therefore written to clarify that Scarlet's new body ''is'' that of a Mysteron duplicate but that his personality (according to all indications in the series) is that of Paul Metcalfe a.k.a. Captain Scarlet. Whether that makes him ''really'' Captain Scarlet, I would suggest is a philosophical question ''way'' out of our league! =) -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 17:52, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC) == Kill or destroy == The recent "corrections" to the statement that the Mysterons must kill or destroy something to copy it left the statement less correct than it had been. There is not anything that the Mysterons are ever shown copying without first killing or destroying it. In "Treble Cross", the episode that MikeVx cites as proof that the Mysterons don't need to destroy a thing to copy it -- the test pilot whom they copy ''has been killed''. The fact that he is later resuscitated is not an exception to the rule: they must kill or destroy anything that they wish to copy, even if the opening narration does oversimplify it to "first, they must destroy". The speculation that destruction is only a matter of Mysteron policy is just that, speculation. I feel we should restore the original description, since it was not in error and did not need to be "updated". -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 03:12, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC) :I've regarded the issue as an inconsistency since ''Treble Cross'', and reached a conclusion that you obviously don't agree with. If it is really too far out there, I'm sure that someone will change things back. At least you offered a civil (albeit in my opinion, incorrect) counterpoint. I expected to get some nasty reactions to challenging the commonly-held view. I don't see a resucitatible case as being really dead. ([http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Princess_Bride "There's a big difference between mostly dead, and all dead."]) It is true that the issue of Mysteron policy is speculation, but it is the only real explanation possible given my position that destruction is not a necessary part of the process. Now as far as I've seen in the new series, they have only duplicated people in clothing on-screen. I have seen two cases of death followed by on-the-spot fabrication of the copy, so there is no inconsistency so far. I'm not going to get into an edit war, if the entry is changed I'll just leave it be. I will, however, continue to regard it as an error. -- User:MikeVx 01:42, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::''Treble Cross'' is certainly a challenging episode to try and fit into the canon, but it stretches definitions, rather than violating the rules that have been explicitly established. ''You'' might not see a reversible death as fulfilling the clause that "they must kill/destroy before they can copy", but since our only choices are: 1) Gerry and company ''did'' see a death followed by a resuscitation as one that fulfilled the clause, or 2) Gerry and company stated flat out in the opening narration of the series a "rule" that they never intended to be a rule and only adhered to in every single other instance of Mysteron copying in the series just ... ''because''... well, I think we need to be realistic and say that our belief that the Mysterons should need to kill someone "all dead" before being able to copy them, if they have any such need at all, is not one that the creators of the canon shared. ::As far as the new series, I think it would be a mistake to try and apply knowledge from the new series to the old one, since they are distinctly different on some very basic points. There is no way to merge the old series and the new series to make one unified canon so why try to determine principles of the old canon by referring to the new one? -- User:Antaeus Feldspar 02:06, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::: Just to toss in my 2 cents, the word "destroy" is often used in the same context as "kill". (i.e. "We will destroy the terrorists", etc.). So if it's a matter of semantics I think the term destroy could mean both "kill" and "physically destroy" in the context of this series, especially since there are several examples of inanimate objects being wrecked and recreated (I recall a plane and a car). It's very possible that Treble Cross is simply a case of continuity violation. Anderson's shows are hardly air-tight in that regard (see ''UFO'', ''Space: 1999'', etc.). In some respects the very existence of Capt. Scarlet himself violates the rules set out in the show as, to my knowledge, no one else was shown retaining memories and the like -- unless there was an episode I missed. User:23skidoo 03:46, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Captain Scarlet
Science fiction television series
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