[[Image:NW_Boeing_787.jpg|thumb||225px|right|Rendering of a Boeing 787-8 in Northwest Airlines colors]]
The Boeing 787, or ''Dreamliner'', is a mid-sized passenger jet airliner currently under development by Boeing Commercial Airplanes and scheduled to enter service in 2008. It will carry between 200 and 350 passengers depending on the seating configuration, and be more fuel-efficient than earlier airliners. In addition, it will be the first major airliner to use composite material in the majority of its construction.
Prior to January 28, 2005, the 787 was known as the developmental designator 7E7. On April 26, 2005, one year to the day after the launch of the program, the final look of the external 787 design was frozen [http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/photorelease/q2/pr_050426g4.html].
==Background==
When Boeing 767 sales began to weaken in the face of competition from the AirbusAirbus A330 in the late 1990s, Boeing began to consider replacement aircraft. As the Boeing 747#747-400 was also beginning to lose traction, the company began to consider two new projects — the Boeing Sonic Cruiser and the Boeing 747.
Boeing_Sonic_Cruiser_was_Boeing's_intended_choice_to_replace_the_Boeing_767._Boeing_later_reverted_to_the_more_conservative,_though_still_advanced,_787">Image:Boeing sonic.jpg|thumb|right|225px|Originally the Boeing Sonic Cruiser was Boeing's intended choice to replace the Boeing 767. Boeing later reverted to the more conservative, though still advanced, 787
The Sonic Cruiser was intended to achieve higher speeds (approximately Mach number 0.98) while burning fuel at the same rate as the existing 767 and A330 products. The 747X, intended to compete with the Airbus A380, would stretch the 747-400 and give it a composite supercritical wing to improve efficiency. The limited potential market for superjumbos was an issue, however; the earlier Douglas DC-10 and Lockheed L-1011 widebodies split of a similarly limited market drove ''both'' companies out of their strong positions in the commercial aircraft market.
Market interest for the 747X was tepid; the Sonic Cruiser had brighter prospects. Several major airlines, primarily in the United States, voiced their optimism for the concept. By decreasing travel time, they would be able to increase customer satisfaction and aircraft utilization.
When the September 11, 2001 attacks occurred, the global airline market was upended. The worst-affected airlines were in the United States — those same airlines were the primary proponents of the Sonic Cruiser. Airlines were not able to justify large capital expenditures, and due to increased petroleum prices, were more interested in efficiency than speed. Boeing proceeded to offer airlines the option of using the airframe for either higher speed or increased efficiency. Due to high projected airframe costs, demand continued to evaporate. Eventually, Boeing switched tacks and decided to offer an alternative project, at the same time cancelling the 747X.
The replacement for the Sonic Cruiser project was dubbed the 7E7. The "E" was said to stand for various things, depending upon the audience. To some, it stood for "efficiency," to others it stood for "environmentally friendly," etc. In the end, Boeing claimed it merely stood for "Eight," after the aircraft was eventually rechristened "787" when several Chinese airlines ordered the product, as eight is a lucky number in Chinese numerology. [http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/photorelease/q1/pr_050128h.html]
The 787 essentially uses the technology proposed for the Sonic Cruiser in a more conventional airframe configuration (see #Features). Boeing claims that the 787 will be up to 20% more fuel-efficient than comparable aircraft. Roughly one-third of this efficiency improvement will come from the engines; another third from aerodynamic improvements and the increased use of lighter weight composite materials; and the rest from advanced systems. The most notable system advancement contributing to efficiency is a "more electric architecture" which replaces bleed air and hydraulic power with electrically powered compressors and pumps. This technology is comparable in some ways to the systems used on hybrid car.
On December 16, 2003, Boeing announced assembly would take place in Everett, Washington, employing 800 to 1,200 people.
On April 6, 2004, Boeing announced that it had selected two engine types, the GE Aircraft Engines (GE) General Electric GEnx and Rolls-Royce plcRolls-Royce Trent#Trent_1000_Series to power the 787. Significantly, this leaves Pratt & Whitney unable to offer one of their own engines to 787 customers. Boeing may have wished to rely on two evolved versions of existing engines rather than the higher-risk option of an all new Pratt & Whitney engine, particularly in light of Pratt & Whitney's recent failures in the Regional Jet market and failed PW6000 engine for the Airbus A318.
For the first time in commercial aviation, both engine types will have a standard interface with the aircraft, allowing any 787 to be fitted with either a GE or Rolls-Royce engine at any time. Engine interchangeability makes the 787 a far more flexible asset to airlines, allowing them to change from one manufacturer's engine to the other's in light of any future engine developments which conform more closely to their operating profile. The engine market for the 787 is estimated $40 billion USD over the next 25 years.
The launch of a new airliner can be expected to draw scathing comments from competitors, Boeing's doubt over the Airbus A380 and Airbus' mocking of the Sonic Cruiser being recent examples. The 787 is no exception, as Airbus' John Leahy has made attempts at refuting all of the claims that Boeing have made for the aircraft, while the company has openly criticized the large scale use of composites for the 787's fuselage "rushed and ridculous" - with Boeing arguing that the technology has already been well-proven on military aircraft. Airbus is not in a position to start development of a comparable aircraft given their commitment to the ongoing development of the A380. However, Airbus has offered a reduced-weight Airbus A330 with the 787's next generation turbofans (modified to generate bleed air as with the proposed 747 Advanced). This proposed new jet, the Airbus A350, lacks the 787's widespread use of composites and advanced systems, though Airbus says it will almost match the 787's performance and reduced operating costs. Despite the designs' claimed parity, Airbus has sold just 105 A350s to four airlines and two leasing companies.
==Commercial launch==
On April 26, 2004, the Japan airline All Nippon Airways (ANA) became the launch customer for the 787, then still-known as the 7E7, announcing a firm order for 50 aircraft to be delivered beginning in 2008. The order is valued at roughly $6 billion and represents the largest ever single launch order for a new Boeing jetliner, as well as illustrating market acceptance of the concept.
ANA will buy thirty 787-3, 300 seat, one-class aircraft for the domestic market, and twenty 787-8, long-haul, 230 seat, two-class aircraft for international routes such as TokyoNarita-Los Angeles, California. The aircraft will allow new routes to be opened to minor cities not previously served, such as to Denver, Colorado.
On June 28, 2004, Air New Zealand (ANZ) became the second 787 customer, announcing a firm order for two aircraft and options on 16 more. This unusual arrangement was likely precipitated by ANZ's perception that they needed to secure their delivery slots, far in advance. The aircraft will be used to develop new international routes and increase frequency on existing routes. ANZ was the first airline to announce which powerplant would power their aircraft, selecting the Trent in June 2004.
Blue Panorama of Italy and First Choice Airways of the United Kingdom placed orders for four and six examples, respectively, of the 787-8 on July 7, 2004. Primaris Airlines (run by several prominent industry veterans), which caters to business customers in the same vein as Switzerland's PrivatAir, placed an order on October 21, 2004 for 20 787s and options for 15 more. The Primaris order represents the first United States customer for the aircraft. On December 22, 2004, Japan Airlines ordered 30 787s with 20 options for close to $4 billion, and on December 29 of the same year, Continental announced an order for 10 787 airframes.
On December 31, 2004, Vietnam Airlines became the eighth airline to signal its intent to buy the 787, with an order for four jets. This was followed on January 28, 2005 with an order from China Aviation Supplies Import & Export Corporation for 60 787s, which will be distributed among six Chinese state-owned airlines. Each airline will have its first 787 in service prior to the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing.
On April 25, 2005, Air Canada, fresh out of bankruptcy, placed 18 firm orders for the Boeing 787 with options for 60 more, as well as 18 firm orders for the Boeing 777. Air Canada cited the 787's increased efficiency over the Boeing 767, Airbus A330, as well as the 787's competitor, the Airbus A350. The airline subsequently cancelled the orders on June 18, 2005, after failing to agree a package of cost-saving measures with its pilots.[http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1306183496&view=13213-0&Start=0]
On April 26, 2005, Air India placed a very large ($6.9B) order for a number of Boeing jets, including eight 777-200LR ultra-long-range aircraft, 15 777-300ER aircraft and 27 787 long-range aircraft. As of the 26th of April, 2005 this order was still subject to government approval.
===Orders and options===
{| class="toccolours" border="1" cellpadding="4" style="border-collapse:collapse"
|- bgcolor="#efefef"
! rowspan="2" | Date
! rowspan="2" | Airline
! rowspan="2" | EIS
! colspan="5" | Type
! rowspan="2" | Engine
|-
! 787-3
! 787-8
! 787-9
! Unknown
! Options
|-
||April 262004
|| All Nippon Airways
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|30
|align="right"|20
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|50
|align="right"|Rolls-Royce Trent
|-
||June 22004
|| Air New Zealand
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|2
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|16
|align="right"|Trent 1000
|-
||July 72004
|| First Choice Airways
||2009 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|6
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|6
|align="right"|General Electric GEnx
|-
||July 72004
|| Blue Panorama
||2009 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|4
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|-
||October 212004
|| Primaris Airlines
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|20
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|15
|align="right"|
|-
||December 222004
|| Japan Airlines
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|13
|align="right"|17
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|20
|align="right"|
|-
||December 292004
|| Continental Airlines
||2009 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|10
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|-
||December 312004
|| Vietnam Airlines
||2010 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|4
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|-
||January 28, 2005
|| Air China
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|15
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|-
||January 28, 2005
|| China Eastern Airlines
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|15
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|-
||January 28, 2005
|| China Southern Airlines
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|10
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|-
||January 28, 2005
|| Hainan Airlines
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|8
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|-
||January 28, 2005
|| Shanghai Airlines
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|4
|align="right"|
|align="right"|5
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|-
||January 28, 2005
|| Xiamen Airlines
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|3
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|-
||February 4, 2005
|| Ethiopian Airlines
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|5
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|5
|align="right"|
|-
||February 25, 2005
|| Icelandair
||2010 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|2
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|5
|align="right"|
|-
||April 11, 2005
|| Korean Air
||2010 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|10
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|10
|align="right"|
|-
||April 26, 2005
|| Air India
||?
|align="right"|
|align="right"|20
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|7
|align="right"|
|-
||May 5, 2005
|| Northwest Airlines
||2008 in aviation
|align="right"|
|align="right"|18
|align="right"|
|align="right"|
|align="right"|50
|align="right"|
|-
!colspan="3"|Totals:
!colspan="4"|241
!align="right"|184
|}
===Initial sales===
Customer announced orders and commitments for the 787 reached 237 aircraft during the first year of sales; the total currently stands at 255, with 70 under firm contract. This makes the 787 the fastest-ever selling Boeing airliner upon launch; by comparison, the 747 sold 92 units during the same time period. Negotiations remain underway with a number of key airlines worldwide. They expect to have 500 orders by entry into service (EIS).
The 787-3 and 787-8 variants will be available first. The 787-9 was expected to be available two years later, but the first 2.5 years production has now been sold out for the initial variants, so the introduction of the 787-9 has been delayed in order to fulfill initial demand.
The 787-8 variant was priced at a list price of $120 million per aircraft, surprising the industry, which was expecting a much higher price tag. Launch customer ANA is rumored to have received a 50 % discount, though that may never be easily confirmed.
== Japanese and other foreign program partners ==
It also underscores the importance of Japanese industrial participation (35 % workshare with Boeing itself holding 35 %) with most of the subcontractors fully supported and funded by the Japanese government. The Japanese participants are no longer junior partners.
Boeing will assemble the aircraft and manufacture its forward fuselage, tail fin, ailerons, flaps, and slats. For its entire history, Boeing has jealously guarded its techniques for designing and mass producing commercial jetliner wings. Due to economic realities, the wings will be manufactured by Japanese companies in Nagoya, while the horizontal stabilizers will be manufactured by Alenia Aeronautica in Italy, and the fuselage sections by Vought in South Carolina, Alenia in Italy, Kawasaki in Japan, and Boeing in Wichita.
Messier-Dowty will build the landing gear. This highlights the French participation in the Boeing program. Honeywell and Rockwell-Collins will provide flight control, guidance and other Avionics systems. The 787 will be the first aircraft in history with standard ''dual'' head up guidance systems. Future integration of forward looking infrared is being looked at by Flight Dynamics allowing improved visibility using thermal sensing as part of the HUD system, allowing pilots to "see" through the clouds.
The final assembly will consist of attaching fully-completed subassemblies, instead of building the complete aircraft from the ground up. This is a technique which Boeing has previously used on the Boeing 737 program, which involves shipping fuselage barrel sections by rail transport from Boeing's Wichita, Kansas, Kansas facility to their final assembly plant at Renton, Washington, Washington. Airbus has also used this technique in the past, which in their case is more a political necessity as a result of having to divide workshare between partner nations.
The 787 will undergo wind-tunnel testing at Boeing's Transonic Wind Tunnel, QinetiQ's five-metre wind tunnel based in Farnborough, UK, and NASA Ames Research Center's wind tunnel, as well as at the French aerodynamics research agency, ONERA.
The first composite section rolled out in January of 2005, and final design was set in April 2005.
==Features==
* Twin aisle seating.
* Cruise speed: 0.85 Mach number (903 km/h or 561 mph at altitude)
* Range of 8,500 nautical miles (15,700 km), enough to cover the Los Angeles, California to London or New York City to Tokyo, Japan routes.
* Construction materials (by weight): 61 % composite, 20 % aluminum, 11 % titanium, 8 % steel. Composite materials are significantly lighter and stronger than traditional aircraft materials, making the 787 a very light aircraft for its capabilities. By volume, the 787 will be 80 % composite.
* The 787 production line will be able to finish an aircraft in as little as three days, compared to 11 days for the 737.
* Larger windows than any other civil air transport, with a higher eye level, so passengers can see the horizon, with liquid crystal display (LCD)-based "auto-dimming" to reduce cabin glare and maintain transparency.
* Light-emitting diode (LED) cabin lighting will be used instead of fluorescent tubes.
* Cabin air provided by electrically driven compressors (no engine bleed air).
* A version of Ethernet (AFDX) will be used to transmit data between the flight deck and aircraft systems.
* Bleed-airturbofans, allowing elimination of superheated air conduits normally used for de-icing, aircraft power, and other functions. These systems are to be replaced with an all-electrical system.
* Higher humidity in the passenger cabin because of the use of composites (which don't corrode).
* The internal pressure will be increased, to the equivalent of 6000 feet (1800 m) altitude versus 8000 (2400 m) on conventional aircraft. This will significantly improve passenger comfort.
Early concept images of the 787 included rakish cockpit windows, a dropped nose, and a distinctive "shark-fin" vertical stabilizer. The final styling of the aircraft was more conservative, with the fin less radical than on earlier images.
==Variants==
The 787 is currently being sold in three variants:
*The 787-3 will be a 296 seat (two class) short-range version targeted at high density flights, with a range of 3,500 nautical miles (6,500 km). EIS is 2010.
*The 787-8 will be the "baseline" model, with 223 seats in three classes and a range of 8,500 nautical miles (15,700 km). EIS is 2008.
*The 787-9 will be a stretched variant, seating 259 in three classes. The targeted EIS is set at 2010[http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/221772_air27.html].
==Specifications==
{| class="toccolours" border="1" cellpadding="4" style="border-collapse:collapse"
!
! 787-3
! 787-8
! 787-9
! Boeing 767 (for comparison)
! Boeing 767 (for comparison)
|-
!align="right"| Length:
| 55.5 m
| 55.5 m
| 62
| 55.0 m
| 61.4 m
|-
!align="right"| Height:
| 16.5 m
| 16.5 m
| 16.5 m
| 15.9 m
| 16.8 m
|-
!align="right"| Wingspan:
| 51.6 m
| 58.8 m
| 60.0 m
| 47.6 m
| 51.9 m
|-
!align="right"| Cross section:
| 5.75 m
| 5.75 m
| 5.75 m
| 4.50 m
| 4.50 m
|-
!align="right"| Maximum take-off weight:
| 163,500 kg
| 216,500 kg
| 226,800 kg
| 156,500 kg
| 204,120 kg
|-
!align="right"| Seats:
| 296 two class
| 223 three class
| 259 three class
| 218 three class
| 245 three class
|-
!align="right"| Cargo:
| 16 tons
| 16 tons
| 16 tons
| 10 tons
|
|-
!align="right"| Engine:
| GE GENX or Rolls-Royce Trent 1000
| GE GENX or Rolls-Royce Trent 1000
| GE GENX or Rolls-Royce Trent 1000
| GE CF6-80C2 or Pratt & Whitney PW4062
| GE CF6-80C2
|-
!align="right"| Cruising speed:
| 0.85 Mach number
| 0.85 Mach
| 0.85 Mach
| 0.80 Mach
| 0.80 Mach
|-
!align="right"| Range¹:
| 6,500 km
| 15,700 km
| 15,400 km
| 7,400 km
| 10,454 km
|-
!align="right"| Service ceiling:
| 13,000 m
| 13,000 m
| 13,000 m
| 13,000 m
| 13,000 m
|-
!align="right"| EIS:
| 2008 in aviation
| 2008 in aviation
| 2010 in aviation
| 1986 in aviation
| 2000 in aviation
|}
¹ With full load (passengers and cargo)
==Related content==
===Related development===
*Boeing Sonic Cruiser
===Similar aircraft===
*Boeing 767
*Airbus A330
*Airbus A350
==External links==
* [http://www.boeing.com/commercial/7e7/facts.html 787 Facts (from BCA)]
* [http://newairplane.com/en-US/787Dreamliner/Customers.htm Customer list (from BCA)]
* [http://www.boeing.com/commercial/7e7/photos.html Boeing 787 photos (from BCA)]
* [http://igeographer.lib.indstate.edu/pritchard.pdf A detailed analysis of the 787's business affairs (pdf)]
* [http://www.aircraft-info.net/aircraft/jet_aircraft/boeing/7e7/ Aircraft-Info.net - Boeing 787]
* [http://www.anaskyweb.com/us/e/about_ana/corp_info/news/2004/040426.html ANA info page on 787]
* [http://www.buffalo.edu/reporter/vol35/vol35n40/articles/Boeing.html 787 and WTO]
U.S. airliners 2000-2009
Boeing 787
== A 'Radical' New Plane? ==
What are the thoughts on how giant a leap forward the 787 is? Is it more of an evolution than revolution? It is still a very conventional airframe configuration, and many of the systems are just a progression of existing technology than a great advancement. Composites are already widely used in airframes (although not to this extent on large aircraft). 11:07 Feb 11 2005 (UTC)
:Taking everything individually, it's more of an evolution, but combined I see it as very much a revolution. An aircraft of this size has yet to have a fully composite fuselage, and bleedless engines are also brand new. Compared to the A380 (hailed as a revolution by the press), which is in essence just a scaled-up A340, the 787 has a lot more new features. But yeah, it's a pretty subjective claim. -User:EricgUser_talk:Ericg 01:46, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)
== New Technology on the 787 ==
How much 'new technology' is there exactly on the 787? Apart from the airframe, which we know will mostly be composites, little seems to be known regarding aircraft systems. Details I have heard from industry sources suggest that systems design won't be so much of a step ahead as the change to the airframe. For example, the 787 will use AFDX (an ethernet variation) on a copper medium - not particularly radical since this is also on the A380. The use of bleedless engines though does mean that some systems will need significant changes.
Any details on technical aspects of the aircraft, particularly that which can be classed as 'new technology' would be welcome. As ever, cite sources where possible for validation.
:*Regarding "new technology," the 787 will use an entirely new electric-based architecture. Every single subsystem is revised to deal with this new architecture. The concept is a lot like the fuel-efficient "hybrid cars" starting to appear on the road today. The 787 also has a central computer instead of hundreds of individual boxes to further improve efficiency. See link: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/174159_electric20.html --01:17, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
== 7E7 is dead...long live the 787 ==
There is no longer much point in referring to the aircraft as the '7E7' or discussing what the 'E' may have stood for. '7E7' was only ever a pre-development designator for the programme, just as the 757 was the 7N7, the 777 the 767-X and the A380 the A3XX.
:Hell you say. People still want to know the history behind the project. It's part of the development history. —User:N328KFUser talk:N328KF 14:47, 2005 Feb 10 (UTC)
Discussing what the 'E' may or may not have stood for is not relevant to the background of the project. In fact, as in all pre-development designators, letters such as these rarely stand for anything, apart from when it fits a publicity soundbite at a particular time. Hence why it changed so often; there is little evidence to show it stood for one thing in particular from the start.
Additionally, please remain polite when providing comments.
:You should sign your comments. Adjectives such as the ones you have attempted to temper are explained elsewhere in the article regarding some of the design features of the aircraft. —User:N328KFUser talk:N328KF 20:16, 2005 Feb 10 (UTC)
== Japanese Aerospace ==
Excerpts from research paper "Japan's Aerospace Industry by Bill Gordon, Wesleyan University ,November 1997"
"Several key conclusion can be reached from this essay's analysis of the Japanese aerospace industry:
Japan effectively competes today in the international aerospace industry in the manufacture of aircraft and engine components through its strategy of participating in international collaboration projects and focusing on strong niche technology areas.
Based on Japan's learning on the F-2 fighter program and their international collaborations, the country will soon possess the capability to develop and produce an indigenous aircraft, but it still lacks critical technologies to effectively produce a large aircraft engine without foreign assistance. Even though Japan may have the ability to produce an indigenous aircraft, it would be a strategic error to pursue this project alone due to its huge cost and commercial risk.
Japanese aerospace companies still have weaknesses in certain areas such as systems integration, assembly, design, and marketing, but they are actively seeking to gain experience and improve their skills in these areas by participating in key international collaboration projects.
Based on the worldwide and Japanese aerospace industry trends analyzed in this paper, I offer some predictions of the future:
Japanese companies will continue to join in international collaboration projects and will demand more significant participation in future projects—both larger percentage workshares and more critical and high technology sections of planes and engines. Japan will achieve this by exploiting the intense rivalry of the international prime contractors. Building on their Boeing collaboration projects, the Japanese will gradually increase their participation in Airbus projects.
Within twenty years, and maybe much sooner, the Japanese will join with a current prime aircraft or engine contractor in a 50/50 joint venture to develop and produce a new aircraft or engine. This joint venture might be similar to the successful CFM engine joint venture between General Electric and the French company Snecma.
Japan will never launch a totally indigenous commercial aircraft or engine program, but in the future Japanese aerospace companies will participate as equal rather than junior partners in international collaboration projects. " User:Fikri 09:22, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
:Someone forgot about the NAMC YS-11? User:Sekicho 17:43, May 19, 2004 (UTC)
::Also the Kawasaki C1. Looks sort of like a mini C-17. -User:N328KF 01:23, 2004 Jun 26 (UTC)
== A330-200Lite ==
Let's use the proper nomenclature. Anyhow, it's been offered to SIA. And I don't think Leahy will pull this one off. ;) -User:N328KF 20:45, 2004 Jul 6 (UTC)
== 7E7 second production line ==
I think at this stage it qualifies as a 'rumor,' but there have been noises about a second 7E7 production line, based upon strong initial demand. We probably won't know the answer to this one for a little while yet, but probably something to keep our ears to the ground for. If Boeing does a second line, it will definitely affect their ability to deliver product, given the sold-out status for 2008/2009. -User:N328KF 15:31, 2004 Jul 25 (UTC)
:What ''strong initial demand''? It has been my impression that most airlines are taking a wait and see attitude to the plane. The Air New Zealand order is a joke, most likely they had the order forced on them in order to get a good deal on the Boeing 777s they were buying -User:James Anatidae, 2004-July-July 26, 05:12 Eastern Standard Time#UTC-5_R_(EST_-_Eastern_Standard_Time)
::Well, that's why I didn't just go add it to the article. The WSJ says Boeing has 200 orders, but just hasn't made it public. That qualifies as strong initial demand, but since it's not public, we can't say in the article "they have 200 orders." All I was saying was that it was something we should note for future potential inclusion into the article. -User:N328KF 11:15, 2004 Jul 26 (UTC)
== E is for Efficient ==
To the joker who keeps changing "efficiency" to "enabled":
[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5024912/]
-User:N328KF 00:24, 2004 Sep 5 (UTC)
:I am serious I have talked to many people in that company
:it is enabled. Enabled comfort, enabled speed, enabled efficiency,ect. (anonymous)
::Until you come up with something to back up your statement in the face of overwhelming evidence the contrary, leave it alone. We cannot alter the article because you "talked to somebody." -User:N328KFUser talk:N328KF 17:37, 2004 Sep 19 (UTC)
Ok, go to newairplane.com and notice on most of the pages (LIKE THE ONE ON HOW IT IS EFFICENT) and notive how they say enabled.
And these are not just somebodies they are people that work for the company, just last week there was a Boeing PR rep on the radio saying how the 'E' ultimatly stood for ENABLED.
OK found it! LOOK HERE please http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2003/june/i_mv.html
:*Actually, the "E" originally meant "Efficient." Then Boeing began touting the idea that the airplane was "E-Enabled," which means the airplane is linked digitally to the passengers, the crew, and the airline's operations center. Then for marketing reasons they came up with all kinds of other things the "E" stood for. In fact, they made an "E is for..." video, where they listed all the things the "E" was supposed to stand for.
:*It's important not to take these pre-launch letter designations too seriously. The 777 started out as the 767-X, for example, and the 757 was the 7N7. The 7J7 was another Boeing airplane that was devloped to a great extent and then died. --User:Komodon 00:45, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
==Ethernet==
Are they really going to use ethernet? What about real time considerations?
:What are you talking about? User:Xmnemonic
::Is that really Xmnemonic? You weren't logged in, if so. In any event, Ethernet has latency...even the fastest Ethernet. It does look like the A380 is going to use Ethernet to link the avionics subsystems, so Boeing isn't the only one. -User:N328KFUser talk:N328KF 05:09, 2004 Oct 18 (UTC)
:::AFDX is time-deterministic. Although the latency exists, it is of a known duration. See links: http://www.afdx.net/afdx-tutorial.html http://www.techsat.com/afdx/index_afdx.html --01:06, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
== NPOV ==
:The 7E7 design has replaced the earlier Sonic Cruiser that was offered as Boeing's answer to the Airbus A380 mega-airliner. In fact, it appears that the Sonic Cruiser, a new generation of high speed subsonic passenger aircraft after the (supersonic) Concorde, existed only in artwork and no engineering had actually taken place. Many commentators suggested it was a trial balloon offered to test the waters for a higher-speed airliner. The design proved to be uninteresting to the airlines, and was generally ignored.
This is nonsense. Neither the 7E7 nor the SC were meant to "answer" to the A380. The rest of the paragraph is obviously POV. Refs please? I know that Virgin Airlines for one expressed serious interest in the SC, before completely switching to supporting the A380. User:Xmnemonic
--The claim that the Sonic Cruiser existed "only in artwork" is likewise nonsense, as any of the 1000+ engineers who worked on it (including me) would tell you. At the beginning of the program, BCA CEO Alan Mullaly said the same technologoy could either make a fast airplane of equivalent efficiency to current airplanes, or a plane of equivalent speed which was 20% more efficient. The airlines said, "Make the efficient one instead."
--
Well we know the BWB will be in direct competition with the A380,
But I am sure Boeing would rather you get a 7E7 over an A380 anyways.
:The BWB? You mean a fragment movement of a few Boeing engineers has suddenly transformed into a fully fleged project? Even as Boeing reps deny that any BWB designs have gone further than the research stage, and company attitudes towards it are quite negative? Do tell.
:Anyways, this and several other commercial aircraft articles have far too much of an editorial tone. Yes, often I agree with the viewpoints presented. But not eveyone else does, and they have no place in an encyclopedia. This is no venue for haughty industry analysis; leave that to AIR International and Jane's [Insert Title Here]. This is for plain facts, whose "shocking" impacts or industry responses are of no matter. User:Xmnemonic
:Well said Xmnemonic. If it's not fact, or sourced opinion then leave it out. If it is sourced then give both sides of the argument equal emphasis.
== Why shocking? ==
The 7E7-8 variant was priced at a list price of $120 million per copy, shocking the industry. Launch customer ANA is rumored to have received a 50% discount, though that may never be easily confirmed. Why is this shocking? Is it because the price is too high or could it be too low? Also, Boeing said they will announce most of their customers by September 2004. I can't find any information on this, so maybe we should edit out that phrase from the article. Anyway, i now understand why there is this heated debate between Airbus and Boeing. It is more to do with A350 than A380. The former is bound to affect 7E7 profitability by all means.
I removed 'shocking', which led to someone reverting it but also explaining ''why'' it is shocking :). User:Dan100 16:57, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)
== Variants ==
Perhaps a Weight/Mass comparison between the 787 variants and 767-300/767-400 should be added. The Airbus A330 should also be added to the comparison. User:Andros 1337 21:00, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
== GEnx for AC? ==
While I have not read this officially anywhere, I think it is safe to assume that AC is going to buy GEnx power plants for their 787's, since the accompanying 777 orders exclusively use GE engines, and they would strive as much as possible to maintain fleet commonality. Is this enough of a basis to make them down under the GE column?
-Schuyler
:No, IMHO. I have not put any engine selection data up until there is a formal announcement. Someone tried to do that once before and I reverted for that reason. It's subject to debate but I feel strongly on this. I apply these same rules to the order table that I created. —User:N328KFUser talk:N328KF 23:18, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)
== Options ==
This may sound silly, but what is an option (with respect to airplane orders)? If it has to do with price, then what agreement is made about the delivery date? User:CoolGuy 06:38, 6 May 2005 (UTC)