Al-Andalus

[[Image:AndalusQuran.JPG|thumb|right|230px|A manuscript page of the Qur'an in the script developed in al-Andalus, 12th century]] Al-ʾAndalus (Arabic language الأندلس) is the Arabic name given the Iberian Peninsula by its Muslim conquerors; it refers to both the Emirate (ca 750–929) and Caliph of Cordoba (929–1031 ) and its taifa specifically, and in general to territories under Muslim rule (711–1492). As Iberia was slowly regained by Christians fighting from northern enclaves, in the long process known as the ''Reconquista'', the name "al-Andalus" came to refer only to the Muslim-dominated lands of the South, the former Roman Hispania Baetica, within an ever-southward-moving frontier. == History == === Conquest and early years === In 711 CE, a "Moors" Islamic army from North Africa invaded Visigoth Christian Spain. Under their leader Tariq ibn-Ziyad, they landed at Gibraltar on 711 April 30 and brought most of the Iberian Peninsula under Islamic rule in an eight-year campaign. They moved northeast across the Pyrenees but were defeated by the Franks Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours in 732. The Iberian peninsula, except for small areas in the northwest and largely Basque regions in the Pyrenees, became part of the expanding Umayyad, under the name of Al-Andalus. In the Archaeological Museum in Madrid, a dinar dating from five years after the conquest (716), has the Arabic "Al-Andalus" on one side and the Iberian Latin "Span(ica)" on the other — apparently the first mention known. At first, Al-Andalus was ruled by governors appointed by the Caliph, most ruling for three years or less. However, from 740, a series of civil wars between various Muslim groups in Spain resulted in the breakdown of Caliphal control, with Yusuf al-Fihri, who emerged as the main winner, being effectively an independent ruler. === The Emirate and Caliphate of Cordoba === [[Image:Mosque.jpg|thumb|left|250px|The interior of the Great Mosque in Cordoba, built on the site of a Visigoth Christian basilica was restored to a Christian cathedral. The mosque, known as the Mezquita in Spanish, was one of the finest examples of Arab-Islamic architecture pioneered by the Umayyad dynasty.]] When the Umayyad dynasty gave way to the Abbasid in 750, Abd-ar-Rahman_I (later titled ''AlDāakhil''), an Umayyad exile, established himself as the Emir of Cordoba in 756, ousting Yusuf al-Fihri. Over a thirty-year reign, he established his rule over the whole of al-Andalus, overcoming partisans both of the al-Fihri family and of the Abbasid Caliph in Baghdad, whose title he refused to acknowledge. For the next century and a half, his descendants continued as Emirs of Cordoba, with nominal control over the rest of al-Andalus (and sometimes parts of western North Africa) but with real control, particularly over the marches along the Christian border, varying greatly depending on the competence of the individual Emir. Indeed, Abdallah ibn Muhammad, who was Emir around 900, had very little control beyond the area immediately around Cordoba. However, Abdallah's grandson Abd-ar-Rahman III, who succeeded him in 912, not only rapidly restored Ummayad power not only throughout al-Andalus but extended it into western North Africa as well. In 929 he proclaimed himself Caliph of Cordoba, elevating the emirate to a position competing in prestige not only with the Abbasid Caliph in Baghdad but also the Shi'a Islam Caliph in Tunis — with whom he was competing for control of North Africa. The period of the Caliphate can reasonably be regarded as the Islamic Golden Age of al-Andalus. Irrigation techniques and crops – for instance, rice, oranges and a variety of other citrus fruits – imported from the Middle East provided the area around Cordoba and some other Andalusi cities with an agricultural infrastructure well in advance of that of any other part of western Europe. Cordoba under the Caliphate, with a population of perhaps 100,000, was far larger and more prosperous than any other city of the time in Europe, with the exception of Constantinople, and competed on at least equal terms as a cultural centre with anywhere else in the Islamic world. The work of its philosophers and scientists would be a significant formative influence on the intellectual life of medieval western Europe. === Culture === ===== Non-Muslims (Dhimmi) under the Caliphate ===== The position of Christians (Mozarabs) and Jews living under the Caliphate, while distinctly inferior to that of Muslims, was still far better than that of religious minorities elsewhere in Europe. However, Dhimmis (i.e. non-Muslims) could not build new churches or synagogues nor repair old ones; they had to observe their faiths indoors, never in public, they could not do anything that could be interpreted as a challenge the superiority of Islam; they were required to wear an identifying belt called the ''zunnar''; they could not employ Muslims ; they had to show loyalty to Muslims; they could not sell goods not approved by Muslims. They had to pay an poll tax (''jizya''). Dhimmis were also forbidden from holding public office, although in practice this rule was often ignored; there are many examples of dhimmi holding office especially during the time of the Abbasid empire, and their control over Baghdad. One notable example is that of Hasdai ibn Shaprut, a prominent Jew who controlled the customs (among other duties) in Cordoba. Provided they paid a special poll tax (jizya) and did nothing to insult Islam, they were recognised as dhimmis, believers in a tolerated non-Muslim religion entitled to worship God in their own way and, in matters affecting only members of their own religion, entitled to be governed by the rules of their own religion rather than those of Islam. Thus dhimmi communities were generally administered by leaders of their own religion who would even usually collect the jizya on behalf of the Caliph. Of course, the requirement not to insult Islam could be interpreted more or less widely. It was generally understood that that dhimmi places of worship should be less conspicuous than Muslim ones and that acts of worship should not take place where they might offend the eyes of pious Muslims. Some Muslim scholars held that dhimmis could not give orders to Muslims, and so could neither employ them nor hold public office - but caliphs and other rulers in all periods of al-Andalus employed dhimmis in responsible positions (often admittedly because a dhimmi was more dependent on their personal favour than a Muslim would have been). One notable example is that of Hasdai ibn Shaprut, a prominent Jew who controlled the customs (among other duties) in Cordoba. The two offences that supposedly carried an automatic death penalty were apostasy from Islam and explicitly insulting the Prophet - yet even here, Ummayad Emirs and Caliphs could be reluctant to take notice of such cases. An unusual historical drama occured in the city of C�rdoba, Spain, under Muslim rule, during which 48 Christians were decapitated for religious offences against Islam and became known as the Martyrs of C�rdoba. ===== Philosophy ===== One of the most significant contributions made in Al-Andalus was to the advancement of theological philosophy. From the earliest days, the Umayyads wanted to be seen as intellectual rivals to the Abbasids, and for Cordoba to have libraries and educational institutions to rival Baghdad. Although there was a clear rivalry between the two powers, freedom to travel between the two Caliphates was allowed, which helped spread new ideas and innovations over time. The historian Said Al-Andalusi wrote that the Caliph Muhammad Ibn Abd Al-Rahman had collected libraries of books and patroned men to study Medicine and "ancient sciences". Later ''Al-Mustansir'' (Al-Hakam II) vastly improved this by importing philosophical volumes as well as varying series of books on diverse subjects, including medicine and music from the East to his new university and libraries in Cordoba. Under his reign Cordoba had become one of the worlds most important cities for medicine and philosophical debate. However, when his son Hisham II took over, his real power was ceded to the ''hajib'', al-Mansur Ibn Abi Aamir. Al-Mansur was a distinctly religious man and disapproved of the sciences of Astronomy, Logic and especially Astrology, so much so that many books on these subjects, which had been preserved and collected at great expense by Al-Hakam II, were Boook burning. It was not long, however, after the death of Al-Mansur (1002) that interest in philosophy sparked up again. Numerous scholars came to the forefront, including Abu Uthman Ibn Fathun, who wrote and taught extensively on a wide variety of subjects including Music and Grammar but whose masterwork was the philosophical treatise the Tree of Wisdom. Another outstanding scholar in astronomy and astrology was Maslamah Ibn Ahmad al-Majriti (died 1008), an intrepid traveller who journeyed all over the Islamic countries, and beyond, and who kept in touch with the ''Brethren of Purity''. Indeed, it is said to have been him who brought the ''Epistles of the Brethren of Purity'' to al-Andalus and who added the compendium to these 51 books, although it is strongly possible that this was added later by another of the name al-Majriti. Another book believed to be his is the ''Ghayat al-Hakim'' ("The aim of the Sage:), a book which dealt with varying philosophical ideas including a synthesis of Platonism with Hermes Trismegistus. Its use of incantations led the book to be widely dismissed in later years, altough the Sufi communities did keep studies of it. A prominent follower of al-Majriti was Abu al-Hakam al-Kirmani, who aside from the studies of philosophy was also a particularly keen scholar of Geometry. A follower of his was the great Abu Bakr Ibn al-Sayigh, known to most Arabic Speakers as Ibn Bajjah, known mostly to the west as Avempace === The first taifa period === The caliphate effectively collapsed during a ruinous civil war between 1009 and 1013, although it was not finally abolished until 1031. Al-Andalus now broke up into a number of mostly independent Islamic states called ''taifas''. These were however militarily too weak to defend themselves against repeated raids and demands for tribute from the Christian states based in the north and west, which had already spread from their initial strongholds in Galicia (Spain), Asturias, the Basque country and the Carolingian ''Marca Hispanica'' to become the Kingdoms of Navarre, Kingdom of Le�n, Castile and Aragon and the County of Barcelona. Eventually, raids turned into conquest; and in response, the taifa kings requested help from the Almoravids, the puritanical rulers of the Maghrib. However, the Almoravids conquered the taifa kingdoms. === Almoravids and Almohads === The Almoravids were substantially less tolerant of Christians and Jews than the earlier Umayyads, and were succeeded in the 12th century by the even more fanatical Almohads, another Berber dynasty. In 1212 a coalition of Christian kings under the leadership of Alfonso VIII of Castile defeated the Almohads at the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa. The Muslims were driven from Central Spain in the next few decades until only the kingdom of Granada remained. === The Emirate of Granada === Granada survived for three more centuries as a vassal state of Castile, and is is known in modern time for architectural gems such as the Alhambra. On January 2, 1492, Boabdil of Granada, the leader of the Amirate of Gharnatah (Granada), the last Muslim stronghold in Iberia surrendered, in the "Capitulation of Granada," to armies of Christian Spain, recently united under the Catholic Monarchs Isabella I of Castile (Isabel La Cat�lica) and Ferdinand II of Aragon (Fernando el Cat�lico or Ferran el Cat�lic). Al-Andalus ceased to exist. == Aftermath == [[Image:GranadaAlhambraLions2.jpg|thumb|right|The famous Court of the Lions inside the Umayyad palace of Alhambra, in Granada, one of the finest examples of the high art and culture achieved by the Islamic civilization in Spain.]] In 1502, the Capitulation's extension of tolerance was rescinded, and the remaining Muslims were forced to leave Spain or convert to Christianity, as ''moriscos''. They were an important portion of the peasants in some territories, like Aragon, Valencia or Andalusia, until their systematic expulsion in the years from 1609 to 1614. Henri Lapeyre has estimated that this affected 300,000 out of a total of 8 million inhabitants at the time. The Moorish domination of the peninsula had a profound effect on language, art and culture, especially in the south. Examples include the many Arabic or Arabic-influenced words in Spanish, and architecture such as Granada's Alhambra. The name of today's Andalusia (Spanish: Andaluc�a) comes from "Al-Andalus", as this southern province was among the last territories to pass from Moorish to Spanish Christian hands. == Etymology of "al-Andalus" == The etymology of the word "al-Andalus" is uncertain. The word is popularly thought to be derived from the Vandals, the Germanic tribes tribe who settled in southern Iberia and Northern Africa. However, scholars are by no means in agreement. The notion of it originating with the Vandals, who supposedly devastated Spain#Geography so severely in a mere twenty-two years of tenure (407-429) as to leave their name forever imprinted on it, gained in popularity over time and survives — but it is a theory put forth without much basis, bolstered perhaps by Homonym. ''Three'' possible etymologies have been advanced in recent times. The first, the Vandal link, is largely disregarded now, and the question of the origin of the Arabic language name, given to the entire peninsula, is still open to debate. === Vandal�cia === Reinhardt Dozy (1820-1883), Netherlands author of the famous ''History of the Muslims of Spain'' (4 vols., Turner, Madrid, 1984), advanced the theory according to which the name of Al-Andalus is an Arabic rendition of Vandalicia or Vandaluc�a, on the assumption that the Roman province of Hispania Baetica (southern Spain) could have acquired and retained this name-association, not in Iberia itself, but among the Arabs of the maghreb. === Atl�ntida === The Spanish philologist Joaqu�n Vallv� Bermejo, in his ''The Territorial Divisions of Muslim Spain'' (CSIC, Madrid, 1986), is of the opinion that Al-Andalus, as in Jazirat al-Andalus, translates pure and simply as "Atlantis" or "island of the Atlantic": :''Arabic texts offering the first mentions of the island of al-Andalus and the sea of al-Andalus become extraordinarily clear if we substitute this expressions with "Atl�ntida" or "Atlantic". The same can be said with reference to Hercules and the Amazons whose island, according to Arabic commentaries of these Greek mythology and Latin legends, was located in jauf al-Andalus — that is, to the north or interior of the Atlantic Ocean.'' === Landahlauts === An etymology was advanced recently by H. Halm in "Al-Andalus und Gothica Sors", in ''Welt des Oriens,'' vol. 66, 1989, pp 252-263, and drawn upon by Marianne Barrucand/Achim Bednorz in ''Islamic architecture'', K�ln, Taschen, 1992, pp 12-13. Halm dismisses any links with the Vandals, an association he finds without foundation, and offers instead an interesting explanation. According to him the name "Al-Andalus" is simply an Arabic rendition of the Visigothic name given to the Roman province of Baetica. The Visigoths, following the custom of their Germanic predecessors, parcelled out the conquered territories by drawing lots, and the allotments to anyone, with their corresponding land, was called "Sortes Gothicae". Contemporary texts, still written in Latin, refer to the Goths kingdom as a whole as "Gothica sors" (singular). It is reasonable to suppose then that the corresponding Gothic language designation "Landahlauts" (allotted, inherited, drawn land), in its phonetic form — "landalos" — became easily and spontaneously, to Arabic ears, "Al-Andalus". *L�t (Gothic ''hlauts'': allotment, inheritance. Old High German ''hl�z'', modern German ''los'', which passed to French as ''lot'' (cf. Lot (departement)) and Spanish language as ''lote''; whence "lottery," "loterie," "loter�a," etc. == See also == * History of Spain * History of Portugal * Caliph of Cordoba * Umayyad * History of Islam * Andalusia * Spain * Jihad. == References == * Hugh Kennedy, ''Muslim Spain and Portugal : A Political History of al-Andalus'', Longman, 1996 (ISBN: 0-582-49515-6) * Roger Collins, ''The Arab Conquest of Spain, 710–797'', Blackwell, 1989 (ISBN: 0-631-19405-3) ==Further reading== *Manuela Marin, et al. editors, ''The Formation of Al-Andalus: History and Society (inm series ''The Formation of the Classical Islamic World'', Vol 46) 1999. ISBN 0860787087 *David Luscombe, editor, et al. ''The New Cambridge Medieval History: Volume 4, c.1024-c.1198, Part 1'' (in series ''The New Cambridge Medieval History'') Moorish Spain Cateogry:Islamic history

Al-Andalus

==Linked== The BBC has linked to this page! [http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/islamic-history-europe.shtml See here!] Legend! --User:195.7.55.146 09:18, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC) ---- No consensus for deletion for the page Al-Andalus, etymology(ies). Archived deletion debate below. -- User:Cecropia | User talk:Cecropia 16:18, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC) ---- Nonsense, unencyclopedic. User:Casta attacked my personal page in response to an attempted speedy delete, so what do you folks think? User:Duncharris|User talk:duncharris 12:30, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) *Umm, this is for real. You haven't heard of Andalucia, as in Un chien andalou? I spent a few months in Sevilla and it is wonderful BTW. Dunc, I know you mean well, but perhaps you've jumped the gun here. User:Wile E. Heresiarch 14:46, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) * Keep. I haven't studied the problem in depth, but the etymologies proposed there seemed about as plausible as any; sources are given for each. Some or all of them may be nonsense, but they're hardly ''patent'' nonsense. User:Ihcoyc 14:47, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) ::Don't bother, Wikipedia admins., I've removed it myself. I teach Spanish history and I added my piece in order to expand on an point that, as presented here, simply repeats a popular notion that is not supported by serious historical scholarship. I realize now that Wikipedia is not for me. ::It would be perhaps more polite and less startling if you asked contributors to submit pieces for publishing consideration beforehand, perhaps - and that you organize some sort of peer review for these. That a young, lying, and unqualified punk such as Harris here is allowed to instantly "adjudge" a piece of writing on a subject he knows nothing about as "nonsense" does not do your site much credit. ::Your loss. *Pre-publishing peer review was tried on Nupedia. It didn't work. That's why Wikipedia doesn't operate that way. Secondly, your personal attacks on a (possibly) mistaken user cast far greater doubt on your qualifications than anything User:Duncharris has said. -- User:Cyrius|User talk:Cyrius 19:02, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) ** Cyrius, I'm afraid you're preaching to the choir -- User:Casta is well out the door. He shouldn't have gotten so pissed off, true enough, and easy for me to say. However the larger context is that a person whose competence we have no reason to doubt has been driven off. Dare I say it, ''we must be able to keep people who know what they're doing''. As always my opinion is worth what you paid for it. User:Wile E. Heresiarch 00:17, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC) ** Unfortunately, a person, no matter how intelligent and eloquent, isn't going to last long on this site if they cannot accept having their work questioned. User:MK 04:39, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC) *** "Questioned" is not an accurate description of what happened. The article was immediately labeled patent nonsense [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Al-Andalus%2C_etymology%28ies%29&action=history]. Nobody raised questions of any kind. User:Wile E. Heresiarch 08:16, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC) *Comment Article deletion is not really that different from any other edit. Deleted articles can be restored, as this one has. We do warn everyone that they shouldn't submit anything unless they are willing to have it be mercilessly edited. Deletion is just a particularly merciless form of editing. Inappropriate deletes can be restored, just as in appropriate edits can be reverted. No, we don't have pre-publishing peer review. What we do have is post-anything everyone-review. LIke a good GUI, we encourage people to be bold and make mistakes, and provide an undo function to be used afterwards. I don't say it works. I do say we have it. Watch it in action right here, right now. User:Dpbsmith 20:43, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) *Note - article restored by Cyrius with VfD tag. - User:TextureUser Talk:TextureUser:Texture 18:18, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) **Force of habit on blanked articles. -- User:Cyrius|User talk:Cyrius 18:55, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) *Unless it's a copyvio, keep. User:RickKUser talk:RickK 18:23, Jun 4, 2004 (UTC) *Well, this is sad. I think what we have here is a classic case of a bitten newbie. We really could use another editor who knows something about history. It's too late for User:Casta but let's try to avoid reruns of this. User:Wile E. Heresiarch 18:39, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) *Keep, seems like a good topic, can't imagine why anyone would think it a candidate for speedy deletion. Bad title, though, should be moved. User:Everyking 19:00, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) *Comment: There's simply no way this is a speedy deletion candidate. When in doubt, use VfD. User:Meelar 21:25, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC) *I'm new here, but in response to copyvio, at least on the Web, there are several similar pages in Spanish, but they do not have identical content (from my little knowledge of Spanish): a search for [http://www.google.com/search?q=Al-Andalus+Landahlauts+Dozy Al-Andalus Landahlauts Dozy] shows them. --User:Jkeiser 05:27, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC) * I think this is as good a place as any to point out that it's probably not such a great idea for ''any'' of us to label something "patent nonsense" just because we've never heard of it or we don't understand it. Marking this for speedy delete was definitely jumping the gun, and it appears to have alienated a knowledgeable, articulate individual who contributed in good faith. Keep, of course. Possibly rename to Etymologies of Al-Andalus. ''— User:Wikisux 06:59, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)'' * What happened to this person also reminds me of my experiences starting White cliffs of Dover. I started the article three times as a stub, but someone speedy deleted it each time. I chalked it up to database problems, which was aggravating enough—imagine how pissed I was when I learned someone was deliberately deleting my article, without even notifying me! So I think we should try, in general, to avoid such rude introductions as the ones User:Casta and I suffered. ''— User:Wikisux 06:59, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)'' * 2 remarks here: (1) The original had clear citations. How could ''anyone'' propose it for speedy delete without any effort to verify the citations? (2) Conversely, the original was written very unencyclopedically: "I think this is an intriguing question, and not so easily answered! For starters - although the idea of it having something to do with those punk Vandals who supposedly trashed southern Spain so badly..." When you encounter this sort of thing, certainly edit out this kind of self-indulgent writing, but (especially when it comes from a newbie), don't presume it invalidates the substance of the article. -- User:Jmabel 07:21, Jun 5, 2004 (UTC) * This article about the etymology of Al-Andalus was actually longer than the article on Al-Andalus itself. I have therefore merged the former into the latter, and tidied it up a little. Casta's article was not fabulous, but it was a useful contribution that has now greatly improved the article on Al-Andalus, which is a key element of Spanish history (which I am interested in, since I live here). I vote that this badly-named article now be deleted as unnecessary, but not as nonsense. — User:Chameleon 23:04, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC) ::By 'delete', I mean 'redirect to Al-Andalus'. — User:Chameleon 23:12, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC) * Keep it. I really amazed on it's vfd. That is completly encycplodaedic and really credible, even the Atlantis thing. Should be move to Al-Andaluz etymologies.-User:PedroPVZ 19:36, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC) *Keep. Rename. It makes me think of the Pixies and my recent trip to Spain. User:Acegikmo1 19:51, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC) *Move to Al-Andalus and delete. I'm a bit sad to think I could have solved this, as when this article was VFDed, I was online and voted, trying to explain that the article was valid. Unfortunately I got an edit conflict and decided not to retype my vote, which probably had a hand in leading to this mess. User:Johnleemk | User talk:Johnleemk 09:33, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC) *Hey, this needed to be deleted, not moved to Etymology of Al-Andalus. Yes, there was initially consensus to move the page, but when my incorporating the content into Al-Andalus changed everything. I have listed this page on VfD again. — User:Chameleon 11:49, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC) ---- End of archived deletion debate ---- == Debunking the Al-Andalus myth == A claim has often been made that the period of Al-Andalus there was great tolerance etc.... What often ommitted from the picture is the preceeding brutal slaughter and ethnic cleansing of native spaniards by the invading Muslim armies and the reduction of surviving Christians and Jews to a sub-class in society called Dhimmis during the same period. Those are facts that put this article into perspective instead of propagating the wishful bed time story told to Muslim children called Al-Andalus. . --User:Mrabir 12:08, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC) * Er.. source this ''"Slaughter and ethnic cleansing of native spaniards"'', and add it. Thats what this Wikipedia thing is all about. --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} == Factual accuracy? Opinion? == Could this section not be condensed a bit? "It has been pointed out by historians that although Muslims typically view the period of the Emirate and the Caliphate as tolerant towards the Christian and Jewish populations living on the conquered land, that those same populations were reduced to a sub-class status called dhimmis and were only 'tolerated' as long as they obeyed the stringent dhimmi rules imposed by the Muslims. Dhimmis ie non-Muslims could not build new churches or synagogues nor repair old ones; they had to observe their faiths indoors, never in public, they could not do anything that could be interpreted as a challenge the superiority of Islam; they could not take Arabic names; they were required to wear a dhimmi belt called the zunnar; they could not employ Muslims ; they had to show loyalty to Muslims; they could not sell goods not approved by Muslims. They had to pay an poll tax (jizya). Dhimmis were also forbidden from holding public office.(This next sentence is in remark to the previous sentence, which I will leave in tact) To say that the Dhimmis were barred from political office is a rather incorrect statement, there are many examples of dhimmi holding office especially during the time of the Abbasid empire, and their control over Baghdad. However in reference to political power than Dhimmi could attain within andalusia, please look at Hasdai ibn Shaprut a prominent Jew who controlled the customs, among other duties, in Cordoba." It would be simpler just to link to the article Dhimmi or at the very least remove the 7 wiki links to the same article in one paragraph. This reads more like a rant than an academic discussion of the social status of non-Muslim "Peoples of the Book" in Islamic Spain. There's nothing particularly unique about this status in relation to this article and a sentence or two explaining that there ''were'' class differences due to religion as a result of Islamic law being enacted should suffice -- if it's even necessary. I'm not an expert on Islamic Spain but I do know something about the history of Islam in Europe in general and the truth is certainly not as clear cut as the author wants to make it seem. Certainly by our modern secular standards this sort of behavior is regressive and opressive, but do we really need to compare this with the treatment on non-Catholics in post-Reconquista Spain?! (As but one example.) The truth is that the middle ages right up until the Reformation and even on into the the Enlightenment were not exactly shining examples of religious tolerance and sanity. I think one could easily make the case that regardless of the unequal treatment that the dhimmi recieved it was no worse than the treatment of Jews (or so-called "heretical" Christians) anywhere else. Hell, England disbarred Catholics from public office into the modern era -- as the second author notes, there was no such rule in Islam in general or in Al-Andalus in particular. Indeed many of the most prominent members of the intellectual and cultural elite in both Islamic Spain and the Ottoman Empire were Jews and Christians. I've read quite a bit on the topic and at the very least Bernard Lewis seems to think that the Islamic dominance of Spain was the catalyst for one of the great periods in Jewish culture, philosophy and art. At any rate I digress. I guess I'm just a bit surprised at the controversy in this article. It seems like an interesting topic and one that would be relatively easy to research given that both sides were literate and the vanguard of their respective cultures. I'm disappointed that people can't do better than this, but hey... that's life for you sometimes. (Hehe... I seem to have run across a lot of disputed pages lately, I guess this one just hit a nerve finally!) Let's make Wikipedia better! User:Gabriel 03:30, 6 May 2005 (UTC) :What shortened version would you suggest? User:Jayjg^{User_talk:Jayjg} 17:57, 6 May 2005 (UTC) == NPOV dispute == I have just done a major edit to the History section of the article and added references, in the process replacing the paragraphs that I believe gave rise to the NPOV dispute (and which I found decidedly POV myself). I believe that the POV tag can now safely be removed, but as that would be judging my own work I'd prefer to let others decide. It's obviously open to others to revise what I have written - but seeing some of the reactions to recent changes to this article, I'll remark that I'd regard any wholesale reversion of my changes as a distinctly unfriendly act. User:PWilkinson 21:36, 22 May 2005 (UTC) : Thank you for your contributions however why are you trying to whitewash the condition of the Dhimmi , are you are trying to market it as an acceptable status?. Those people who were Dhimmis were the original occupants of the land and the remaining survivors of vicious campaigns of extermination carried out by the invading moorish armies. The history of Al-Andalus is not the wonderful bed time story of a "Muslim Golden Age"?--User:Aesed 00:33, 26 May 2005 (UTC) :: The Condition of the ''Dhimmi'', mainly ''ahl al Kit�b'' you will agree, varies from place to place, and from time to time. Comparitively Al-Andalus treated it's "protected people" (''The Dhimmi'') better than most any other European Country treated the varying religious communities in the Midle Ages. Britain, the land of the Magna Carta, produced the Penal laws against their fellow Christian Nations, and later on tried to force Christianity on Africa. Why is Latin America so predominantly Catholic? :: The idea that there was "''campaigns of extermination carried out by the invading moorish armies''" is ridiculous. There was not. There was a large amount of Bloodshed and slaughter during the various wars that scarred [[Granada], but that was inflicted on all sides by all sides. Cordoba was as cosmopolitan and tolerant a Society as Spain had seen at that time, and indeed more tolerant than most cities under Franco.--User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 15:26, May 26, 2005 (UTC) :::While I largely agree with you about "campaigns of extermination", there were undoubtedly large numbers of Christian deaths, both in cities that resisted the initial invasion and during the repeated raids into the remaining or reconquered Christian areas through to the end of the Umayyad period. But it's equally clear that Iberian communities who chose to accept Islamic rule and dhimmi status were allowed not only to keep their religion but most or all of their property. It looks as if it might be worth adding something on this to the article - but I'm away from my sources at the moment. User:PWilkinson 18:57, 26 May 2005 (UTC) ::* The Alhambra decree is surely a vivid example of contemperary differences. --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 16:14, May 26, 2005 (UTC) ::The status of dhimmis under the Caliphate of Cordoba was undoubtedly distinctly worse than that of Muslims in contemporary Europe or America. And it was equally undoubtedly distinctly better than that of religious minorities in almost any Christian European state before about 1650 (the Spanish Christian states up to about 1350 being the major exception - and whose method of handling religious minorities do you think they were copying?). User:PWilkinson 18:57, 26 May 2005 (UTC) :I am sure that the section on ''dhimmi'' could be ''edited'' rather than suppressed entirely. I am reinstating it, not because I think it is correct as it stands, but because suppressing it is just not Wikipedian. --User:Wetman 15:01, 27 May 2005 (UTC) ::*In which case, why do a straight revert - thus removing another and longer section on ''dhimmi'' later in the article which constituted part of my edit of 22 May and which User:Aesed has chosen to delete in favour of his preferred version every time he has edited the article? I'm certainly not in full agreement with User:Irishpunktom views or in agreement at all with some of his actions at other times - but so far as I can tell, his last two edits have been to revert the article to my version, with no further editing. ::*If, however, the text that Aesid has been deleting is not felt to be appropriate to Wikipedia, it would be better to revert to the version just prior to my edit of 22 May - which at least put the text that Aesid prefers in a more logical place in the article. User:PWilkinson 19:12, 27 May 2005 (UTC) :::* I do not wish to insert further editing, and I would agree with User:Wetman, suppression is just not Wikipedian, and that is why I have reverted back the User:Aesed edits. Suppressing your edits, and blankly iignoring this discussion page is "''just not Wikipedian''". I don't think that this article is the place to discuss the global status of all Dhimmi everywhere, I think dhimmi is, but thats me, and i stand to be outvoted. --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 19:27, May 27, 2005 (UTC) ::::*Right Tom. "Suppression is just not Wikipedian", and "blankly iignoring this discussion page" is "''just not Wikipedian''" So stop doing it on Suicide bombing. User:Jayjg^{User_talk:Jayjg} 19:50, 27 May 2005 (UTC) :::::*Err.. Jay, i've been involved in a series of discussions on that page, perhaps you should bother to check the Discussion page prior to making such allegations?. Also, could you please stop stalking me, and refrain from bringing up irrelevent conversations, this can be dealt with on my own talk page. Do you have the slightest thing to say on this Subject? --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 18:38, May 29, 2005 (UTC) :Naturally I did not intend to delete ''anything'' myself. The legal status of dhimmi in Andalusia, with a glance at contemporary societies both Islamic and in Christendom and avoiding comparisons with modern life (which is ''not'' part of good history) should not be utterly above everyone's reach, I am sure. Why not cut and paste all the sections of deleted text and work them up at Al-Andalus/dhimmi for the time being and bring an authentically historical edited version, with some cited quotes from historians perhaps, back to this article? --User:Wetman 20:23, 27 May 2005 (UTC) :: The deleted Text was not specific to Al Andalus in anyway. Yhere was no referenences to any leader of any era in any city. It was a broad POV swipe against the concept of Dhimmi, which if it has any place should be on the Dhimmi article. --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 18:38, May 29, 2005 (UTC) ==Where is this going?== Folks, What else do you want to see on this, aside from whatever way the discussions on the role of the Dhimmi in Society. Personally, I want to see more about the Development of Islamic philosophy, and the role this had in Europes renaissance. For example, I'd like a paragraph on Ibn Bajjah, Ibn Tufayl, Ibn Rushd, Abu Hakam al-Kirmani, the studies of Michael Scot and maybe maimonides considering he was born in Cordoba. (Altough I doubt User:Jayjg would allow us!) Anyway, your thoughts? Is it relevent to discuss individuals in this piece, and their role in shaping society as we know it, or is this Al Andalus article just to be about what Al Andalus was, where it was, when it was, etc ? --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 18:58, May 29, 2005 (UTC) :I see you've made a start on a philosophy section - might I ask you to cite your sources? There are one or two points (particularly your last sentence, about Andalusi philosophy not reviving after al-Mansur until the twelfth century) which go against my understanding of Andalusi intellectual history, and I'd like to check on them when I get an opportunity. Thanks.User:PWilkinson 22:52, 31 May 2005 (UTC) :: If it's wrong, go ahead and correct it, I don't mind. The Sources I'm Using are "''A Short Introduction to Islamic Philosphy, Theology and Mysticism''" by Majid Fakhry (ISBN 1-85168-134-5) (Oxford Oneworld), "''Islamic Mysticism: A Short History''" by Alexander Knysh (ISBN 9-00410-717-7) (Brill Academic) and I also have "''Averroes: His Life, Works and Influence''", again by Majid Fakhry, but thats not relevent yet. As I've said, feel free to correct it; If it's wrong it's wrong.--User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 09:03, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC) :: Post Script - There might, in fact there probably is, a Bias toward the Sufi interpretations and indeed degree of importance of certain events might be more or less noted within Sufi circles than society in general, as such I might, when I follow this up, give too much iportance to certain philosophers and theologians than Credit warrants, and less to others than deserved. Feel free to correct me. --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 14:26, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC) :::Thanks - that probably explains the differences between your understanding and mine. It's a while since I read up on Andalusi thought, but I am fairly certain that my sources (when I can track them down again) concentrated on science and metaphysics and in particular the scholars whose work fed into Christian scholastic philosophy. User:PWilkinson 17:40, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::: Yeah, considering this is an English Language 'Wikipedia' it probably makes more sense to focus on them! I'll see if I can look around more and incorporate more. Cheers! --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 08:04, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC) == Reverting to earlier stable version== Recent edits by Irishphunk and Pwilkinson etc.. made a mess of this page. --User:Aesed 11:58, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC) : Care to explain how? --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 13:25, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC) :: It appears that you are determined to propagating the myth of the wonderful condition of being a dhimmi in Al-Andalus. The article as it was before your edits was much more honest, although incomplete. --User:Aesed 04:35, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::: Do you have anything specific to Al Andalus to add? The version you are trying to force upon us was never stable. --User:Irishpunktom\^{User_talk:Irishpunktom} 07:59, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC) ==Correct nationality term== Were the inhabitants of al-Andalus "Andalusians"? "Al-Andalusians"? "Andalusis"? User:GCarty 08:41, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Al-Andalus

==Mr. Al-Andalus Credentials== Mr. Al-Andalus, Kindly state your credentials as a self-proclaimed ethnologist of the Philippines. Are you a Filipino born, bred, and educated in the Philippines? I find your views baseless and a product of your own opinion and imagination. You can�t even state an authentic literature as to where you get your information. Please stop comparing the history of the Philippines to that of Latin American Countries. ==Bienvenidos== Bienvenidos a Wikipedia. Sus art�culos de las filipinas son muy informativos. Hablo un poco espa�ol.--User:Jondel 06:32, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC) ==Basque in the Philippines== To Al Andalus- This article contains the history of the Basque in the Philippines Center for Basque Studies University of Nevada, Reno Basque Studies Program Newsletter � Issue 20, 1979 http://basque.unr.edu/09/9.3/9.3.20t/9.3.20.04.philip.htm I being born and raised in the Philippines and attended the University of the Philippines in Diliman agree with this. ==Spanish in the Philippines== Someone (not me) sent your article about SPanish in the Philippines to HispanoFilipino and Guillermo G�mez responded. It is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spanish_in_the_Philippines == Pintura de castas == I noticed that you sent the . Would you like to write about pintura de castas and the racial classifications in Spanish America or at least to provide more pics? == Death of Spanish in the Philippines == Pls feel free to edit on the death of Spanish which I attributed to demographics based on your arguments. Regards, --User:Jondel 09:11, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC) == Thanks! == Dear Al-Andalus: Hi! Thanks for your work regarding Hispanic issues, including your fix at the Puerto Rico page. Are you from Spain or the Philippines? Thanks and God bless you! Sincerely yours, "User:AntonioMartin" == Image:Mestizo.jpg == --User:Diberri | User talk:Diberri 06:50, Sep 2, 2004 (UTC) ==Hispanic== Mis modificaciones en el articulo "hispanic" pretend�an distinguir "hispanic" de "hispanic american" y de "hispanics in United States". Con la distinci�n entre "hispanic american" e "hispanic in United States" pretend�a crear un art�culo sobre los hispanoamericanos desde una perspectiva m�s general. El art�culo, tal y como est�, define a los hispanos desde el punto de vista estadounidense, e incluso, desde el punto de vista del censo estadounidense. Por otro lado, nunca he escrito que los espa�oles no son hispanos. Son hispanos, pero no son hispanoamericanos. Siento que me hayas interpretado mal. Las razones por las que consideras que los filipinos no son hisp�nicos son discutibles. Dices: But you must concede that the culture of the Philippines is not a Hispanic one, it is one which has Hispanic influences, among various other foreign elements of influence including Chinese, Arabic and Muslim through Indonesia and Indian Hindu through Malaysia, but which remains fundementally native. Eso tambi�n podr�a decirse de los pa�ses americanos. La cultura de los pa�ses latinoamericanas no es s�lo hisp�nica (en el sentido restrictivo y original de propio de la Pen�nsula Ib�rica). Recoge tambi�n influencias de las civilizaciones de los americanos aut�ctonos o de los africanos, entre otras. El sentido primero de "hisp�nico" se ampli� as� para abarcar la cultura de los pa�ses latinoamericanos. Vea la p�gina de desambiguaci�n. �Por qu� est� definici�n m�s amplia de lo hispano no puede incluir elementos "Chinese, Arabic and Muslim through Indonesia and Indian Hindu through Malaysia", pero s� azteca o yoruba? Se distinguir�a as� entre hispano asi�tico (Filipino) e hispanoamericano. Gimferrer :�He ah� en lo que respondes la respuesta que buscas!=== :"''But you must concede that the culture of the Philippines is not a Hispanic one, it is one which has Hispanic influences, among various other foreign elements of influence including Chinese, Arabic Muslim through Indonesia and Indian Hindu through Malaysia, but which remains fundementally native.''" :''Eso tambi�n podr�a decirse de los pa�ses americanos. La cultura de los pa�ses latinoamericanas no es s�lo hisp�nica (en el sentido restrictivo y original de propio de la Pen�nsula Ib�rica). Recoge tambi�n influencias de las civilizaciones de los americanos aut�ctonos o de los africanos, entre otras.'' :�EXACTO! :La cultura de hispanoam�rica es una cultura ''"hisp�nica''...[que]...''recoge tambi�n influencias de las civilizaciones de los americanos aut�ctonos o de los africanos, entre otras.''" Pero estos elementos son tan s�lo ''influencias'' a lo que es una cultura de cimientos Hisp�nicos. Las aportaciones de aquellas mencionadas "influencias" no cualifican a esta cultura en una ind�gena ni en una africana. No hay de confundirse entre el origen de la cultura popular hispanoamericana y el de las culturas de los pueblos ind�genas o de los pueblos afro-latinos que han contribu�do a ella. :Asimismo, la cultura de Filipinas es una cultura nativa que recoge ''influencias'' de las civilizaciones de musulmanes indonesios (y �rabes por medio de estos), hind�es malayos (e indios por medio de estos) hispanos y anglo-americanos, entre otras. Pero estos elementos son tan s�lo ''influencias'' a lo que es una cultura de cimientos malayos filipinos (que adem�s provienen no s�lo del puebo tagalo, sino tambi�n de un centenar de otros pueblos oriundos). Las aportaciones de aquellas mencionadas "influencias" no cualifican a la cultura contemor�nea de Filipinas en una cultura musulmana, ni indonesia, ni �rabe, ni hind�, ni india, ni china, ni hispana, ni americana. No hay de confundirse entre la cultura popular filipina y el de las culturas de los que han contribuyido a ella, que por cierto ya no viven ni representan ni si quiera una significante minor�a en el archipielago. :La cultura de los amerindios quechuas, guaran�es y aymaras por ejemplo, est�n en la misma situaci�n que la cultura del de los Filipinos, son todas culturas nativas, pero con influencias hisp�nicas. Y en realidad, habr�a mucha m�s influencia hispana en las culturas de los nativos americanos antes que el de los Filipinos - pero pese a esto, el hecho sigue siendo simple; todas estas culturas siguen siendo en todo sentido pueblos y culturas nativas. Y a los pueblos y a las culturas nativas de la america de habla hispana se les tendr�a (si se tuviese que hacer) que calificar de hispana mucho antes de que se le calficara de tal a la cultura de las Filipinas. Pero tal cosa nunca se tendr�a que hacer, y por esto ni se sugiere tal calificaci�n de la actuales aut�cotnos americanos, ni de sus culturas como las son y se las practican hoy en d�a. �Entonces, por qu� s� se quiere calificar as� a los filipinos y a su cultura? :Como ejemplo tambi�n te dar� a la cultura popular de los Estado Unidos. La cultura popular de EEUU es Anglo, por cual raz�n se le denomina "Anglo-American culture" a pesar que tambi�n tiene harta influencia c�ltica (irland�s, escoc�s y gal�s), alem�n, italiana, b�ltica e hispana, etc. Pero en sus fundaciones, las pilastras de la cultura Americana es ANGLO y al rededor del mundo se la conoce como tal. :No se dice de la cultura Americana de Anglo por que se quiera decir que es la misma cultura de Inglaterra, mas s� porque deriva principalmente de ella. Y as� pues, la cultura de Filipinas no deriva principalmente de la cultura de Espa�a, por lo cual no se la conoce de hispana ni en el propio archipielago ni en el mundo. :A pesar que la porci�n que se presta de lo hispano en la cultura filipina es sin duda generosa, no es tan generoso como los prestamos hechos por la cultura Anglo-American hacia la cultura filipina en sus decadas de dominio, pero nunca se sugerir�a que la cultura de Filipinas es Anglo. :De esta misma forma, la suma de influencias conjuntas (que se halla en la cultura popular filipina de la era contemporanea) hecha por los chinos, indonesios y malayos es tan importante que el de los posteriores dos, aunque no tanto que el de los americanos primero e hispanos segundo. Y todas estas antedichas influencia en masa; hispana, anglo-american, china, indonesia, malayo, musulman, hind� no compara con lo fundamental y las pilastras de la que se basa la cultura Filipina, o sea, lo m�s importante y numerosos es sin duda lo nativo filipino. :User:Al-Andalus 13:07, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC) ==Surinamese, Cura�aoan and Aruban Jews== Hola, es mi entender que los judios que llegaron a Suriname tenian raices en ambos paises ibericos, pero que hablaron mas portugues que espa�ol o ladino... Ciao, User:Mediterraneo :S�, pero es entendido que los jud�os portugueses (que son Sefard�es) fueron alguna vez originarios de Espa�a (Sefarad). Los jud�os portugueses son aquellos que inmigraron de Espa�a hacia Portugal, y puede decirse espa�oles de ellos. Es m�s, en esa �poca, a la comunidad jud�a en Portugal muchas veces se les denominada de espa�oles, por esto esta comunidad jud�a portuguesa ten�a (y algunos a�n tienen) como su lengua materna al ladino, la cual es tan s�lo un dialecto castellano. Obviamente ladino era lengua de casa, y el habla contidiano de los jud�os portugueses era el portugu�s, la lengua de Portugal. :En fin, estoy de acuerdo con el cambio que has hecho en el art�culo de Suriname, cambiando "Spain" a "Iberia". "Iberia" es un t�rmino neutral e incluye a ambos paises y sus comunidades jud�as. User:Al-Andalus 02:55, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC) == Article Licensing == Hi, I've User:rambot#Free the Rambot Articles project to get users to Wikipedia:Multi-licensing all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (''CC-by-sa'') v1.0 and v2.0 Creative Commons Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The ''CC-by-sa'' license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_number_of_edits Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at ''minimum'' those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information: *User talk:Ram-Man#Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered *Wikipedia:Multi-licensing *User:rambot#Free the Rambot Articles project To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "" template into their user page, but there are other options at Wikipedia:Template messages/User namespace#Licensing Templates. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page: :Option 1 :I agree to Wikipedia:Multi-licensing all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below: : OR :Option 2 :I agree to Wikipedia:Multi-licensing all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below: : Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "" with "". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. ''Please let me know'' what you think at my User talk:Ram-Man. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- User:Ram-Man ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Ram-Man&action=edit§ion=new comment]| User talk:Ram-Man == Suggestion == I suggest that everything about the Philippines should be written by a Filipino(particularly one who was born and raised in the Philippines) and not by a non-Filipino because he knows more about his culture and country. Yes, I agree a Filipino who not only was born and raised in the Philippines but also somebody who knows not only the Philippine history and culture but the the History of the Colonial Philippines as well. :Hey this is unfair! Stop trying to create an outsider mentality. This is open source. As long as the edits can be backed up by references, Al-Andalus can write anything he wants.--User:Jondel 01:08, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC) ::I agree with you. Al-Andalus can write anything he wants. He doesn't have to be a Filipino to write about the Philippines or its culture and its history. Who made that rule? You stated that "everything about the Philippines should be written by a Filipino." How absurd is that statement? Who says you have to be Filipino to write about the Philippines and its history? Is that in the Philippine Constitution? There are lots of Americans that write about other cultures and histories including the Philippines. So, why can't Al-Andalus do the same thing? Let him do what he wants to do. He's just merely stating the fact that Philippine culture is shaped by outside influences mainly by the Spanish and the Americans. If you deny that, you deny history! Philippine culture is unique in its own right. So, be proud of it. One more thing, stop the anti-spanish or anti-american tirade! It's so pass�! :::Please do eliminate any anti-Spanish/American and POV statements. I've only reworded history books and sources which tend to be pro-Philippines. I do want a fact based neutral, encyclopedic presentation. I encourage you to create an account.--User:Jondel 23:59, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC) == Philippines Article == I agree, the Philpippines is better defined as a "protectorate", so why didn't you put that there in the first place? Also, the question of whether or not the Philippines was an American occupation is debatable and IS POV. Refer to US government articles and university papers where the Philippines was often mentioned as a colony. Don't insult my intelligence by claiming I don't know what the definition of colony is. Surely, you are not the authority on the history of the Phillipines. == New Template:Judaism == I've started a little project at Wikipedia:Sandbox/Template:Judaism as you can see...please help out in any way you can, or tell me why I should just stop it. :-p User:TShilo12 ^{User talk:TShilo12} 12:13, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC) ==Spanish in the Philippines== Nice work especially the table!--User:Jondel 04:05, 2 May 2005 (UTC) == Prejudice == I have noticed that you seem prejudice against philippino people and hispanic ones. Why? == Australia etymology == Firstly, thank you for expanding the etymology section of the Australia article. We are currently attempting to achieve feature status for the article, and part of that drive involves referencing. You stated in your edit summary that your changes were based on Australian school curriculum, so I assume you have sources at hand. Would you be able to help us by providing them for referencing? --User:Cyberjunkie 04:57, 23 May 2005 (UTC) :On closer review, it seems associated articles actually contradict your changes to the etymology section. If you could please provide your sources so that your edits may be substantiated. See the article's Talk:Australia for further discussion.--User:Cyberjunkie 07:06, 24 May 2005 (UTC) ==RE:Mizrahi Jews: Arab Jews== Quoted from the edit sumamry posted by User:El_C: ''While the influential Keshet (led by Prof. Yehuda Shenhav) attempted to introduce the term recently, it saw widespread opposition and is seldom used''. Attempted to introduce the term recently? Recently? The term "Arab Jew" exists from prior to the coinaje of "Mizrahi". Get your facts straight. It saw widespread opposition? By whom? That's right, only the Ashkenazim (and some Mizrahim who have all but swallowed the Ashkenazi story) who would not benefit from the strengthening of said identity, which has always existed by the way. Whether "Arab Jew" as a term or Arab Jewish" as an identity was almost completely exterminated and fogotten in favour of a ''collective'' "Jewish Israeli" (Ashkenazi) identity, and is now being revived by those who have never stopped regarding themselves as such (as Arab Jews), is one thing; that they have never identified in a Arab Jewish context or that the term "Arab Jew" is a recent invention is another thing. The fallacy obviously being the latter of the two suggestions. Is seldom used? No one is arguing that point. Having said that, isn't that what the point of including it as an alternative term is all about? The fact that IT IS in fact an alternative term, whether used seldomly or extensively? I suggest you yourself go back and revert the page, unless you want to try to argue a point which can't be argued. User:Al-Andalus 09:25, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC). :Suggestion noted. # I never argued it was ''exclusively'' used recently. # It saw widespread opposition; I am not able to see any of the claims you are forwarding about the composition and (pre)disposition of the opposition from the news items I read. # The point of adding as an alternative to the lead is largely based on extent of use. # I am relying largely on the conventions used in .he, their article is far more extensive than this one, and (seemingly) accurate, too. I intended to translate it, in fact, but never got around to it. # Please try to relax; I really don't care that much about this issue, nor do I know a great deal on it. If you do, please WP:CITE. :User:El C 09:42, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) == You are blocked == You have been blocked for violating the wikipedia:three revert rule for 24 hours. If you feel you have been blocked in error, or if there is anything else I should be aware of, please special:emailuser/smoddy. User:smoddy 20:25, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Thank you for your note. I am afraid that I don't currently have the time to mediate a dispute like this. However,on a quick glance, I cannot see the supposed corrections of International English that you claim to exist. Once again, I am sorry that I cannot find the time to have a closed look, but I hope that you can sort your dispute out. Best regards, User:smoddy 10:11, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC) == Spanish language == Please, instead of adding USA to the article for the n^th time, take a minute to read the Discussion page, that's what they are for. There's a voting going on on the subject, and it would be a lot more constructive if you expressed your thoughts there instead of undoing someone else's edits over and over. thanks, User:Marianocecowski 11:25, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
Al-Andalus

Al-andalus

#REDIRECT Al-Andalus

See other meanings of words starting from letter:
A
AB | AC | AD | AE | AF | AG | AH | AI | AJ | AK | AL | AM | AN | AO | AP | AR | AS | AT | AU | AW | AX | AY | AZ |

Words begining with Al-andalus:

Al-Andalus
Al-Andalus
Al-Andalus
Al-Andalus
Al-andalus
Al-Andalus,_etymology(ies)
Al-Andalus,_etymology(ies)